CHI/MEM/NY Gasol, Curry, and youth

[eitanr]

The Gasol rumors have been flying through the pages and here's one which I think is most sensible.

If you're Memphis, and you are dealing Gasol, you'll need picks, youth, expiring contracts, and another post presence to make up for him in return.

Chicago just wants Gasol, but won't want to deal any of their star assets since it will deter their chances of being a top teir team. Dealing Deng or Gordon for Gasol is somewhat senseless since without either one, the Bulls probably wouldn't have enough to at least compete with Detroit or Boston.

The Knicks have been trying effortlessley to deal either Curry or Randolph to have amore sensible looking 4/5 combo.

Bulls Deal:
Ben Wallace, Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, 2 future first round picks
Recieve:
Pau Gasol, Brian Cardinal, Damon Stoudamire
PF J. Smith/ B. Cardinal
SF L. Deng/ A. Noccioni
C P. Gasol/ A. Gray
SG K. Hinrich/ B. Gordon
PG C. Duhon/ J. Pargo

-> The Bulls get their go to post presence in Gasol and unload Wallace's contract, but are still left fairly thin with a lack of depth at the 4/5. Gasol and Smith and can start together, but Gray and Cardinal will need to play extended minutes at times. Deng will most likely need to play more 4 as well.

Grizzlies Deal:
Pau Gasol, Brian Cardinal, Damon Stoudamire, Darko Milicic, and Stromile Swift
Recieve:
Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Wilson Chandler, 2 future Bulls 1st round picks, future Knicks 1st round pick
PF T. Thomas/ W. Chandler
SF R. Gay/ H. Warrick
C E. Curry/ J. Noah
SG M. Miller/ C. Jacobson
PG M. Conley/ J. Navarro/ K. Lowry
-> The Grizzlies load up and youth and are now somewhat set in terms of depth, in their front court...Curry, Thomas, Noah, Warrick, Gay, Chandler.
They also netted 3 extra future first round picks and the huge expiring deal of Stephon Marbury next season. (Marbury would most likely be bought out after this deal).

Knicks Deal:
Eddy Curry, Stephon Marbury, Wilson Chandler, and a future first round pick
Recieve:
Ben Wallace, Stromile Swift, and Darko Milicic
PF Z. Randolph/ D. Lee/ M. Rose
SF Q. Richardson/ R. Balkman
C B. Wallace/ S. Swift/ D. Milicic/ J. James
SG F. Jones/ J. Crawford
PG N. Robinson/ ^
-> The Knicks lose 2 cancerous players in Curry and Marbury and finally pair Randolph up with a shot-blocking, rebounding 5...something they sorely need.

[Cliff Levingston]

The Bulls aren't going to trade both their young front court lottery picks in addition to 2 future picks, even if they're getting Gasol and dumping Wallace at the same time. This makes the Bulls marginally better at best (perhaps a 6th seed instead of an 8th) while doing nothing to ease the salary situation and hurting their chances to get significantly better in the future.

[BR0D1E86]

Agreed, better off removing Noah and inserting Nocioni. Not sure if it works financially and don

[eitanr]

I disagree Bulls fan....I think the Bulls need to take on this risk. Maybe dealing 2 picks is a little much, but considering neither Gordon or Deng is involved, if I'm Chicago I run away with this deal. I think this could make the Bulls the 3rd best team in the conference with the possibility of even being a little better. Noah has had troubles with the coaching staff and Thomas needs to be in this deal. Noccioni's value is lower because of his contract and subpar season. I still feel with Gasol, Smith in there and having Deng playing some time at the 4 with Gray and Cardinal being the primary backups...it's not too thin.

[hermes]

no go from the bulls side

[moocow007]

Absolutely no way for NY.

Ben Wallace would be considered one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA if he was a Knick. He's been terrible. And the ideal of having the shortest and most vertically challenged front court (Ben Wallace 3 inches and Zach Randolph .5 inches) isn't exactly something to look forward to.

NY can (and probably should) just buy out Starbury and get it over with.

NY should not, under any circumstances be trading away any 1st round picks (unless you're talking about something like in the year 2080).

[BR0D1E86]

Ben Wallace would be considered one of the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA if he was a Knick.

Are you insinuating that he isn

[Cliff Levingston]

-= original quote snipped =-



Are you insinuating that he isn

[Cliff Levingston]

I disagree Bulls fan....I think the Bulls need to take on this risk. Maybe dealing 2 picks is a little much, but considering neither Gordon or Deng is involved, if I'm Chicago I run away with this deal. I think this could make the Bulls the 3rd best team in the conference with the possibility of even being a little better. Noah has had troubles with the coaching staff and Thomas needs to be in this deal. Noccioni's value is lower because of his contract and subpar season. I still feel with Gasol, Smith in there and having Deng playing some time at the 4 with Gray and Cardinal being the primary backups...it's not too thin.

Noah has been playing great this season, posting the top PER among rookies. While Cliff Levingston wouldn't hesitate to include Noah as a principle of the deal, not with our other long-term front court staple at the same time.

Trading both leaves you with a run-down Ben Wallace, a generally average Joe Smith (who's playing above his usual capacity right now) and a very undersized, flawed player in Nocioni in the front court to help Pau. Furthermore, Deng and Gordon aren't doing anything this season to solidify themselves as guys who should be counted on as main pieces to win a championship (as well as Hinrich) so why count on them as such?

Being able to call yourself the 3rd best team in the conference with no good ways of improving yourself in the future shouldn't be the goal. The Bulls would be better off (in the long run) just buying out Wallace, dumping Nocioni and playing the young guys.

[eitanr]

I think the Knicks hate Curry to the extent that they do this deal. Maybe a first round pick is out of the question, but they can not stand Curry anymore.

The Bulls are really not in negotiating stance since they really need Gasol and should be willing to wiggle to the extent of dealing 2 redudant big pieces, one of whom has angered the staff.

[eitanr]

I understand, Cliff, that you don't want to deal both of your future front court pieces. Look at it from a Memphis view though as well. If the Grizz take on Deng or Gordon, they'll be looking to pay these guys upwards of 13-16 mill per and even run the risk of them simply not signing with the Grizz. Trade discussions come more confusing if the Grizz only do a deal (involving Gordon most likely) that has one of the 2 aforementioned wings to work on a contract extenstion with the Grizz upon a trade. Gordon already passed down large mounts of money...there's no way Memphis is willing to pay him what he demands.

Thus from a financial standpoint, it makes no sense for the Grizz to take Gordon or Deng in any deal. If those 2 are not involved, it would only be fair for Memphis to take either both Thomas and Noah....or perhaps some other incentives along with Thomas...say numerous future picks etc.

As for the Knicks...they'll gladly rid themselves of Curry and run with it. The contract of Ben Wallace has less years on it than Curry, and Big Ben does indeed fit with their lineup.

[shakeandbake]

For Memphis to take on both Starbury and Curry's contracts, they would want both Noah and Thomas as well as the picks. You could always keep Tyrus and have New York send David Lee our way !

[eitanr]

Well from a Memphis POV Marbury would easily request a buy out and his contract does expire after next season where the Grizz will be way under the cap and should be the front runners in many bidding wars.

As for Curry, I think he defintley needs a change of scenary. I also believe he and Thomas would be a nice front court 4/5 tandem.

[Cliff Levingston]

If the Grizz take on Deng or Gordon, they'll be looking to pay these guys upwards of 13-16 mill per and even run the risk of them simply not signing with the Grizz. Trade discussions come more confusing if the Grizz only do a deal (involving Gordon most likely) that has one of the 2 aforementioned wings to work on a contract extenstion with the Grizz upon a trade. Gordon already passed down large mounts of money...there's no way Memphis is willing to pay him what he demands.

False. They got fair contract offers this past offseason and turned them down. Just because they may want more doesn't mean they'll get it. Whoever owns their bird rights this offseason could offer a reasonable extension and wait until they accept after not getting any better offers on the open market.

Thus from a financial standpoint, it makes no sense for the Grizz to take Gordon or Deng in any deal. If those 2 are not involved, it would only be fair for Memphis to take either both Thomas and Noah....or perhaps some other incentives along with Thomas...say numerous future picks etc.

Cliff Levingston has advocated a Thomas + Nocioni + Smith + Duhon + '08 1st (top 5 protected) for Gasol + Cardinal + Navarro deal. It gives the Grizzlies:
- A high upside player in Thomas who's an ideal fit for the system.
- A solid player on a decent deal whom they seem to like a lot in Nocioni, who's also a good fit in the system.
- An expiring contract in Duhon.
- A solid veteran on a short, reasonable deal in Smith.
- A pick that's currently in the lottery.

...while also dumping Cardinal's horrible deal. Considering what Philly got for Iverson, Minnesota got for KG, Toronto got for Carter and what L.A. got for Shaq, that's a pretty good return.

[moocow007]

I think the Knicks hate Curry to the extent that they do this deal. Maybe a first round pick is out of the question, but they can not stand Curry anymore.

I think there needs to be a distinction between the Knicks front office and Knick fans. Knick fans have pretty much worn out their patience for the guy. Knicks front office? I'm not so sure. Despite all this it sure sounds that Zach Randolph is the guy they want to move still. At no point have you heard any Curry trade proposals...not even ones that supposed were made up by Thomas and fed to the NY media.

[shakeandbake]

Griz wanted Nocioni to pair with Pau, not to replace him. Not sold on Tyrus either...you gotta wonder about a guy whose fan base always includes him in almost every trade. He just seems to have some Stromile Swift in him. They don't need 2. Gordon+Noah is a better route for Memphis than Nocioni and Tyrus.

[#1knickfan]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think there needs to be a distinction between the Knicks front office and Knick fans. Knick fans have pretty much worn out their patience for the guy. Knicks front office? I'm not so sure. Despite all this it sure sounds that Zach Randolph is the guy they want to move still. At no point have you heard any Curry trade proposals...not even ones that supposed were made up by Thomas and fed to the NY media.

Once again Moocow007 is the voice of reason. I was really getting irritated with the constant droning on about how much the Knicks hate Curry when its some Knick fans who hate Curry and noth the franchise. On the plus side I think this guy subconsciously recognized the difference when he made this trade. Over the course of explain his deal he said:

The Knicks have been trying effortlessley to deal either Curry or Randolph....

As everyone knows, effortlessly means to do something without effort such as Kobe Bryant effortlessly shreds NYs defense everytime he has played them. So yes, the Knicks are effortlessly trying to trade Eddy Curry.

[#1knickfan]

Knicks Deal:
Eddy Curry, Stephon Marbury, Wilson Chandler, and a future first round pick
Recieve:
Ben Wallace, Stromile Swift, and Darko Milicic

As for the deal itself, its not terrible. Wallace, Swift, Micic all have aspects of their game that would help the team. But I don't like the deal enough to make it. We certainly don't need all 3 of those guys nor should we consider giving up a first round pick anytime soon. With all the expensive players on our roster the draft is the only way we can aquire cheap young talent.

[boogiesdad]

good god when did memphis get rich??

hello we only have 12k at games