Blazers move up to #3!

[N.O.R.E.]

Blazers Receive: #3, Jaric, Buckner

Oden/Przy
Aldridge/Frye
Webster/JJ/Buckner
Roy/Fernandez/Jack
Mayo/Jaric/Sergio

The Blazers get a pretty damn good rookie PG without giving up the top 3.
JJ would be picked back up also.

Wolves Receive: Outlaw, #13, Blake, Webster

Diop/DeAndre Jordan
Jefferson/Outlaw
Brewer/Gomes
McCants/Webster
Foye/Blake

The Wolves trade down and get a nice young C to put alongside Jefferson in the future. They also receive an athletic 4 in Outlaw, a guard that could end up starting in Martell, and a solid back-up PG in Blake. They also cut ridiculous amounts of salary and gain more trade chips to use in a talent consolidation trade.

[Billy]

I'd love to move up to #3 as a Blazer fan. I'm not entirely clear if Martell is in the trade or not, but if not it would be even sweeter for Portland. I wouldn't like Portland's SF depth at all if he was included, but I think Mayo is going to be a special player.

I doubt Minny does this--especially just for Outlaw and #13.

[theshow247]

this is a really good deal for portland. they get 2 long combo guards who can compliment roy well at either the 1 or 2, and jaric can even play some 3 if you go small. although, losing outlaw and webster, who were developing into pretty good role players, hurts, but not enough to pass up a shot at mayo.
for minny, either outlaw or webster could start over brewer at the 3.
the only thing that would throw a wrench in this deal is if mchale's rumored man crush for kevin love are true.

[Wizenheimer]

mayo will likely be good, but he won't be good enough for portland to consider this trade.

easy pass for portland

[warren weel im]

If I had Portland's cap space and young talent, I would look to "buy" veterans at this stage. Those that can help this young team and won't in any way hamper PDX's ability to extend and keep ROY, LMA and GO.

[Winter Wonder]

Hate to say it, but from the MN side, this is not enticing at all.

We would much rather pair Mayo and Foye like you would want to do with Mayo and Roy, the idea that two combo guards can get it done in the backcourt, then fall back to pick up Jordan (if he would be there at #13).

Don't need an athletic 4 when Jefferson is clocking in most minutes at that position. Additionally, Gomes can play some 4, and if Smith is still around, he can only play 4.

Webster has his upside, but the wolves want to see Brewer improve and like his upside. And again, Brewer and Gomes will man most of the minutes at the SF. Jaric can also back up some here.

Blake just adds to the guard heavy roster we have and is a serviceable back up at best. Foye has most minutes here, Jaric as well, Mayo could, and if Telfair is brought back, he would have minutes here as well.

This also doesn't factor in who may be selected in the second round and where they fit.

This leaves the #13 and though MN would like to aquire another 1st round pick, it isn't likely to happen in this scenario with us giving up the #3.

Overall, just not something the Wolves are likely to look at due to their current state of roster. Including a center is one of the few ways to get the pick I believe. That or multiple mid to late lotto picks.

[DowJones]

Wow, that is a dreadful deal for Minnesota. So they give up the 3rd overall pick for a couple of role players that "might" develop into something more? And a really late lottery pick?

[revprodeji]

I am shocked a blazer fan turned it down. This deal is very, very bad.

I doubt the pick is moved, but honestly it would take LMA. Of course, Portland would turn it down (rightfully so) and there is nobody else on the roster that would be considered a valid talent for that trade. MN does not want a bunch of B prospects, they want to hit the homerun.

[Wizenheimer]

I am shocked a blazer fan turned it down. This deal is very, very bad.

I doubt the pick is moved, but honestly it would take LMA. Of course, Portland would turn it down (rightfully so) and there is nobody else on the roster that would be considered a valid talent for that trade. MN does not want a bunch of B prospects, they want to hit the homerun.

Don't be so surprised that a blazer fan turned this down. And before everybody goes apoplectic, I would imagine no Wolves fans like this either.

There are only 2 players in this draft that would likely be considered "franchise" players, and Mayo isn't one of them. Portland might consider this deal if they had a shot at rose or beasely.

But the "b" player label for portland's players is bunk when the fact is that mayo isn't automatically an "a" player, and might not ever make it to "b".

Portland would be giving up 2 starters off of a team that was 41-41 in the west, plus one of the best 6th men in the league, plus a lottery pick, plus taking a major hit to their 2009 cap-space plan. All for an unproven rookie with a lot of questionable off-court baggage.

That IS to much to give up, and it would be an extremely high risk trade for portland considering the terrible roster balance it would create and the future options it would eliminate.

[jfucsd10]

Portland doesnt need to land additional prospects ... they need a few veterans to help lead this team to the playoffs. The major pieces are already in place. Adding a guy like Mayo, while tempting, just doenst make sense.

Portland should be looking at a Mike Miller sort of player and using the 13th and pieces makes a great deal of sense.

[yearsago]

This will end badly.

[DowJones]

Who cares if there is only 2 franchise type of talents in this draft. What in the hell do you expect when you trade a pair of role players and a late lottery pick? Do you think an Outlaw/Webster combination is supposed to get you a franchise player in return?

[ecuhus1981]

I agree with Winter Wonder.

Basically, Outlaw is less valuable to MIN, with their logjam of Jefferson, Gomes and Smith at PF. Webster would be in a similar timeshare, with the Wolves committed to developing Brewer.

Jordan won't fall to #13; if MIN did this deal, they might have to settle for Robin Lopez, JaVale McGee or Kosta Koufos. Blake would be a nice security blanket for Foye, but they can get by with a re-signed Telfair (likely to be ALOT cheaper).

[shrink]

While Beasley and Rose have the best chance to become superstars in the league, OJ Mayo also has that kind of upside as well, and while his chances are less than Beasley or Rose, its far greater than anyone else in the draft.

Does anyone really think that McHale can risk trading Mayo away for role players, and have Mayo blow up somewhere else? Particularly to Portland?

[Wizenheimer]

Who cares if there is only 2 franchise type of talents in this draft. What in the hell do you expect when you trade a pair of role players and a late lottery pick? Do you think an Outlaw/Webster combination is supposed to get you a franchise player in return?

it isn't just "outlaw/webster" going out. And it isn't just a "pair of role players". It's outlaw + webster + blake + 13th pick. That's 2 starters and one of the better 6th men in the league on a 41-41 team, along with a lottery pick.

And it isn't a franchise player coming in. It's a rookie with some questionable background who may leave his university under some heavy sanctions because of his actions. And it's also a large albatross contract on a marginal player coming in. So portland would be trading a sizable chunk of their cap-space option as well.

I also want to point out that i said minnesota wouldn't like this deal either.

Too many people in this forum accuse others of overvaluing their 'own' assets when they're in the middle of overvaluing some assets themselves.
And one thing that get's overvalued here constantly is the relative value of draft picks. It's almost always the case that a team holding a high draft pick will see much more value in it then the other teams. That's why such a remarkably low percentage of top-10 picks get traded away before or during the draft.

[AZ BLAZER]

Who cares if there is only 2 franchise type of talents in this draft. What in the hell do you expect when you trade a pair of role players and a late lottery pick? Do you think an Outlaw/Webster combination is supposed to get you a franchise player in return?

Portland cares! If they had a shot at one then maybe Aldridge would be considered. Doubtful, but possible. But there is not, so we don't consider him. Since there is not a franchise player available at 3, we can talk about the players on Portlands roster not named Roy, Aldridge or Oden. If there is not a position match with Minny, fine. minny and Portland are in the same division so I seriously doubt they ever deal with each other. Also, the OP'er is not a Portland fan, so curb the Portland bashing, we didn't start this.

[SabasRevenge!]

Nobody is saying Outlaw/Webster will get us a "franchise player." You may view Outlaw and Webster as role players right now, but Outlaw is the primary scoring option on the 2nd unit at 23 and is more valuable than the average NBA players you're suggesting he and Webster are. Martell would just be finishing his junior year in college and is certainly more than a role player prospect.

The Blazers are looking for complimentary players because they have three franchise players in Aldridge/Oden/Roy. Of the three of them Lamarcus will probably surprise people who don't watch the Blazers the most. Were the Blazers to trade up in this draft the pick would be viewed as an opportunity to draft a very solid complimentary starter to play next to Roy for the next decade+.

IMO it's worth it to land a guy like Mayo who could be a very solid piece next to Roy. I certainly echo some of the concerns voiced by other Blazers fans and it is a high price to pay, but I'd probably give it a go.

[DowJones]

The problem with Portland trades on this forum goes like this...

1. I think they over-value their assets Guys like Pryz, Outlaw, Webster, etc are nice...but they aren't something that other teams will give up a great deal of proven talent to get.

2. What Portland fans want back in return is tough to find. Clearly they don't want an older player that doesn't fit in with the long-term prognosis of their franchise, and that is fine. It also seems like they don't want an up and coming PG either. I saw many fans turn down Conley because he is "too young". Again, ok. They also don't want a player that makes a great deal of money because it ruins the cap-space plan for 2009. Again, I understand.

So all that leaves you with is a player in the 23-28 range that is a proven talent that is on a very reasonable contract. Well guess what, not many players like that are available for some combination of Webster/Outlaw/Jack/13th pick. Young, proven players on a reasonable contract are hard to come by in the NBA.

But in regards to Portland, I have been down this road before.

1. What PG's are they actually targeting? When you look at the available PG's out there, only 3 names really fit....Mo Williams, Kirk Hinrich, and Andre Miller.

2. What free agents would the team be targeting for 2009? There don't seem to be many guys that really fit what Portland is looking for. Maybe Andre Miller, Baron Davis, or Lamar Odom.

[AZ BLAZER]

The problem with Portland trades on this forum goes like this...

1. I think they over-value their assets Guys like Pryz, Outlaw, Webster, etc are nice...but they aren't something that other teams will give up a great deal of proven talent to get.

That is fine. But Portland is not really trying to move the guys you mentioned. Webster is our starting SF that just finished what would have been his junior year of college and did very well. He was also the sixth pick in the draft so you can see why we covet him just as you covet Conley over the 13 pick. Outlaw just finished what would have been his rookie season had he gone to college. He had an excellent season, became the sixth man and has turned out to be a draft steal. He was probably the rawest HS first rounder ever taken and was just a late first rounder. Joel is a very good defender, rebounder and shot blocker signed to a very good deal. he will be an excellent mentor to Oden. I do not care if other posters do not know anything about Portlands players. When posters say we overrate our players it is a cue to me that they have not done their homework on our players.

2. What Portland fans want back in return is tough to find. Clearly they don't want an older player that doesn't fit in with the long-term prognosis of their franchise, and that is fine. It also seems like they don't want an up and coming PG either. I saw many fans turn down Conley because he is "too young". Again, ok. They also don't want a player that makes a great deal of money because it ruins the cap-space plan for 2009. Again, I understand.

Thank you for understanding. Not many posters around here are willing to even try doing that.

So all that leaves you with is a player in the 23-28 range that is a proven talent that is on a very reasonable contract. Well guess what, not many players like that are available for some combination of Webster/Outlaw/Jack/13th pick. Young, proven players on a reasonable contract are hard to come by in the NBA.

Yes, they are hard to come by. But Portland does have the luxury of time. They do not have to make a move this summer. They still have untill the trade deadline to see what shakes out in regards to Raef's $12.7 mil expiring. If he expires unused, Portland will have all of that money as cap space, plus more. Not a bad situation to be in. There are a few players that may elect to sign for the QO and then become free agents next year. I know Portland has their eyes on this and want to see how that goes. If a player or two sign the QO then they may be available in trade because their team does not want to lose them for nothing.

But in regards to Portland, I have been down this road before.

1. What PG's are they actually targeting? When you look at the available PG's out there, only 3 names really fit....Mo Williams, Kirk Hinrich, and Andre Miller.

I doubt Miller, he is a bit old. Not sure about Williams but Portland is certainly interested in Hinrich for the right price.

2. What free agents would the team be targeting for 2009? There don't seem to be many guys that really fit what Portland is looking for. Maybe Andre Miller, Baron Davis, or Lamar Odom.

I agree, the free agents for 2009 are not good fits for Portland. I doubt Portland has any interest in Miller, Davis or Odom for various reasons. What I expect is patience. If nothing shakes out during the draft, no problem. If nothing shakes out after the draft, again, no problem. Same with the trade deadline or the 2009 draft. At some point I am sure something will come up. It may be a deal like CHA/GS did for Richardson. It may be a dump like MEM did with Gasol. The key is patience and taking the right deal, not the first deal.

[Wizenheimer]

The problem with Portland trades on this forum goes like this...

1. I think they over-value their assets Guys like Pryz, Outlaw, Webster, etc are nice...but they aren't something that other teams will give up a great deal of proven talent to get.

there isn't one single fan base at RealGM that doesn't overvalue their assets, portland fans included.

and another "part of the problem" in portland trades are people who seem to consistently undervalue portland assets at the same time they ignore legitimate objections portland fans raise to trades that have to do with contracts, age, and roster balance.

It's not all about the subjective value of 'talent'

2. What Portland fans want back in return is tough to find. Clearly they don't want an older player that doesn't fit in with the long-term prognosis of their franchise, and that is fine. It also seems like they don't want an up and coming PG either. I saw many fans turn down Conley because he is "too young". Again, ok. They also don't want a player that makes a great deal of money because it ruins the cap-space plan for 2009. Again, I understand.

as usual, you're ignoring the real objections to the trades proposed.

As far as older players...andre miller in particular comes to mind as he has been 'traded' to portland several times...the objections to him are not confined to age. There's the simple belief he'd be a bad fit for one thing. Add to that the understandable fact that Philly would want a lot for him. That would mean portland would likely be giving up assets for a one year rental of Andre Miller. It doesn't make sense, especially when factoring in Miller being a decde older then the Blazer's core.

as far as Mike Conley, Memphis wants a lot for him. Now there are many who think the overrating of players would include Conley, and I'm one of them. I also question how good a fit he'd be with Brandon Roy. A PG that plays with Roy is going to need to be effective off the ball on offense. Right now that doesn't describe Conley (or Miller), so portland simply isn't going to meet Memphis's price for Conley. And that has little to do with Conley's age.

So all that leaves you with is a player in the 23-28 range that is a proven talent that is on a very reasonable contract. Well guess what, not many players like that are available for some combination of Webster/Outlaw/Jack/13th pick. Young, proven players on a reasonable contract are hard to come by in the NBA.

unless of course they are Blazers according to you.

If young, proven players are hard to come by, your entire argument here is weak. Because that would mean that Outlaw and webster to name a couple have more value then you admit. After all..they are "hard to come by"

But in regards to Portland, I have been down this road before.

stalker?

1. What PG's are they actually targeting? When you look at the available PG's out there, only 3 names really fit....Mo Williams, Kirk Hinrich, and Andre Miller.

then why the hell would you object when portland fans say they're not nearly enough interested in a player to meet the price set, when he's not on your all-knowing list of 3.

2. What free agents would the team be targeting for 2009? There don't seem to be many guys that really fit what Portland is looking for. Maybe Andre Miller, Baron Davis, or Lamar Odom.

and you've had this explained to you before but you consistently ignore it: cap-space is as useful for trades as it is for signing free agents. Portland's possible/probable cap-space targets don't have to be limited to the free agent list.

Believe it or not, portland is in no hurry to make a move. Next season, they'll be adding greg oden and likely rudy fernandez to the rotation. Historically, the average increase in wins a #1 pick has meant has been 11 wins. That would put portland over 50 wins. And players like roy and aldridge and outlaw and webster should all be improved next season. The Blazers will be better next season, perhaps significantly. There's no compelling reason for them to make a trade unless it's a good one for them. Most of the trades proposed here are not.