Offers for Mike Miller + Cardinal?

[shrink]

I doubt MIN is going to trade Mike Miller, but I'll toss the question out there to play-off teams. What would you offer for the package of Miller + Brian Cardinal?

Mike Miller 9,128,575 9,880,937
B. Cardinal 6,300,000 6,750,000

MIN may not trade Miller because he can provide vet leadership, his position flexibility allows him to shift roles if young players develop or fail, and most importantly, he grew up in South Dakota and always loved the Wolves. He makes the team better, and that may be a big factor in attracting free agents. However, Minnesota is probably not a play-off team, and Mike Miller could be a big useful addition to a team with play-off ambitions over the next two years.

Attractive offers for MIN will include expirings and picks, youth, particularly a promising young defensive center. MIN would be particularly interested in a deal for a solid starting center, even on a deal that runs past 2010, but otherwise, no contract should extend past 2010. Expirings alone probably wouldn't get MIN to trade Miller, but if that's the brunt, it would allow them to avoid team competition by going for the 2009 free agency market.

[Smooth32]

Wally Szczerbiak + Anderson Varejao + rights to Sasha Kaun for Brian Cardinal + Mike Miller + Calvin Booth

[LiquidFire]

Wally + 1sr round pick for Mike MIller + Cardinal.

if you have another bad contract we would consider taking it.

[zong]

Haslem, Blount, D.Cook?

[LiquidFire]

why the hell would miami want him?

[shrink]

The Cavs trades are interesting. I think people might come out to see Blue Steel again at Target Center. However, would Eric Snow would be a better place to start? MIN isn't a contender, and while Wally doesn't produce much, he'll produce more for his team than Snow will?

I don't think the MIA deal would work. Blount is unwanted, and Haslem plays PF, where MIN has many options (Al Jefferson, Kevin Love, Ryan Gomes, Craig Smith). I probably should have mentioned that in the initial post -- thanks for reminding me. Anyway, maybe as a three-teamer?

[midgman8421]

Shrink, actually, the Cavs would rather trade away Wally than Snow due to how much money we're set to save with Snow's contract.

Miller, Cardinal for Wally and a pick would work

or if you really wanted Varejao, Cleveland could use another big back... Booth doesn't really work, considering we have Lorenzen Wright already taking the washed up old big spot on our roster, and I don't know about Gomes, he's talented, but we're losing a lot of size.

Would Minnesota do Miller and Cardinal for Wally and a first? Throw in the rights to Sasha Kaun if you want.

[LiquidFire]

eric snow + sasha pavs + 1st round pick for mike miller + cardinal

youll get more money when snow retires too.

[realball]

Mike Miller/Brian Cardinal for Erik Dampier/Jerry Stackhouse.

Seems like a stupid trade, since the Wolves don't get any young players. But Dampier is a 7-foot pure C who would do the garbage work next to Jefferson and Love. I think it would help both their growing pains on a rebuilding team. And Stackhouse is an expiring.

But I think the Cavs probably have the best offer.

[pillwenney]

I think the Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal deal makes a ton of sense for both teams. I think I remember hearing something about how Wally liked providing veteran leadership for Seattle last year, so he could probably provide that effectively in Minnesota. Minnesota gets another pick to use and sheds even more salary. Cleveland gets an excellent sidekick to Lebron

Williams\Gibson
Miller\West
James\Pavlovic
Wallace\Hickson
Ilgauskas\Varejao

[LiquidFire]

what do outsiders and mem fans think of wally + 1st for mike miller and cardinal?

[shrink]

As a MIN fan, I'd have to say I'd probably do it, but I expect when other MIN posters come on, they'll nix the deal.

For me, the financial ramifications and the pick are too great to say ""no." Sure we get potentially a FIFTH pick in the 2009 draft, but I would hope we could use some of them with a team that wants to rebuild after missing the play-offs. I'm imagining an offer for a center where MIN says, "so how many 1sts do we need to throw in here?" The Wolves get a usable $1.7 mil TPE this season, and the financial flexibility to go after someone in 2009, if it makes sense. At a minimum, McHale would like making the Lakers match a max deal on Bynum. Part of the reason MIN fans like Mike Miller is that he wants to be here, and Wally seemed to like being here as well (though he and KG sometimes didn't see eye-to-eye).

Overall, I'd grit my teeth and say yes, but tell Mike Miller that he's welcome back when he needs a new contract.

[Flash is the Future]

That seems like a great deal for both sides, though it does seem like Cleveland gets the sweeter end of the stick. Make that first round pick top 3 protected or something, and have Cleveland throw in Chicago's 2009 2nd round pick and it seems about right. Good job.

[midgman8421]

Cleveland wouldn't give up both picks. We'd like to keep at least one pick in this draft.

Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal works for both teams if the Wolves want to move Miller. If they don't, a second isn't going to change their minds.

[omeloon]

I think it would be a mistake to package Mike Miller with Cardinal. The only way it makes sense to me is if the Timberwolves plan to go after Bynum, and are pretty confident they'd have a great shot at him.


The fact is, Brian Cardinal's contract just isn't that long, and Minny still needs talent. Al Jefferson is the only player clearly worth building around while Foye might prove worthy of that distinction this upcoming season. Why give up one of the team's biggest assets just to give the team more cap space than it will already have? While the team does have a few young assets who might prove to be part of the team's core, they still have to fill at least 3 long term starting spots as of today. Might as well try to do that while chipping away at the team's overall salaries instead of just adding another draft pick or two.

[shrink]

I think it would be a mistake to package Mike Miller with Cardinal. The only way it makes sense to me is if the Timberwolves plan to go after Bynum, and are pretty confident they'd have a great shot at him.

The fact is, Brian Cardinal's contract just isn't that long, and Minny still needs talent. Al Jefferson is the only player clearly worth building around while Foye might prove worthy of that distinction this upcoming season. Why give up one of the team's biggest assets just to give the team more cap space than it will already have? While the team does have a few young assets who might prove to be part of the team's core, they still have to fill at least 3 long term starting spots as of today. Might as well try to do that while chipping away at the team's overall salaries instead of just adding another draft pick or two.

This is the position of the majority of Wolves fans, and I have to agree with them -- and you -- that it makes sense. Wolves management said even yesterday that the team is playing for the 2010 Free Agency, to try for one of the headliners, or one of the second line that will become available when the others free up space. The Wolves have been perhaps the most active team in the league over the last year to clear salary, and from a team filled with negative value, mediocre vets, they have only one bad contract right now - Cardinal's -- and you're correct that he's only two years.

However, because of these moves, the Wolves are in an interesting financial situation: They bought out Juwon Howard and Troy Hudson, and their contracts come off the books in 2009. In fact, if they traded Miller and Cardinal, the only players on the books next summer would be Al Jefferson ($12), Madsen ($2.8) and eight young players that make between $2.3-$4.0 mill In fact, they could be sitting in 2009 at $36 mil, plus the price of whatever first rounders they sign.

Keeping Miller for two years isn't a bad choice either. They have four players on the books now (Al Jefferson, Love, Brewer and Telfair for a total of only $23 mil, plus picks and perhaps an offer for Foye. That's the game plan. I'm just curious about options.

[shrink]

That seems like a great deal for both sides, though it does seem like Cleveland gets the sweeter end of the stick. Make that first round pick top 3 protected or something, and have Cleveland throw in Chicago's 2009 2nd round pick and it seems about right. Good job.

Cleveland wouldn't give up both picks. We'd like to keep at least one pick in this draft.

Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal works for both teams if the Wolves want to move Miller. If they don't, a second isn't going to change their minds.

midgman's right that another late pick, especially a second, isn't going to tip the scales for most MIN fans, even if they are very close. If MIN's goal is to create cap space, how about adding Madsen for Allred?

MIN fans and front office like Madsen, but that would mean CLE's only adding money, and not picks. Madsen is very untalented back-up big, but he hustles and goes to the right spots on the floor to set picks. His deal is in the $2's, and it hits the magical 2-year mark so its not a bad length for CLE. Maybe it'd convince MIN fans on the fence who want to keep Mike Miller, maybe not, but it'd end up:

Mike Miller + Madsen + Cardinal

Szczerbiak + Allred + pick

Sending cash probably works too, but MIN would probably prefer clearing more cap space.

[Flash is the Future]

Cleveland wouldn't give up both picks. We'd like to keep at least one pick in this draft.

Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal works for both teams if the Wolves want to move Miller. If they don't, a second isn't going to change their minds.

You'd pass on Mike Miller because of a 2nd round pick? My response to that would be "Too bad."

[Flash is the Future]

That seems like a great deal for both sides, though it does seem like Cleveland gets the sweeter end of the stick. Make that first round pick top 3 protected or something, and have Cleveland throw in Chicago's 2009 2nd round pick and it seems about right. Good job.

Cleveland wouldn't give up both picks. We'd like to keep at least one pick in this draft.

Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal works for both teams if the Wolves want to move Miller. If they don't, a second isn't going to change their minds.

midgman's right that another late pick, especially a second, isn't going to tip the scales for most MIN fans, even if they are very close. If MIN's goal is to create cap space, how about adding Madsen for Allred?

MIN fans and front office like Madsen, but that would mean CLE's only adding money, and not picks. Madsen is very untalented back-up big, but he hustles and goes to the right spots on the floor to set picks. His deal is in the $2's, and it hits the magical 2-year mark so its not a bad length for CLE. Maybe it'd convince MIN fans on the fence who want to keep Mike Miller, maybe not, but it'd end up:

Mike Miller + Madsen + Cardinal

Szczerbiak + Allred + pick

Sending cash probably works too, but MIN would probably prefer clearing more cap space.

Attaching Madsen is a good idea too. I just think Minny needs a little bit more, and was trying to figure out how to achieve that.

[midgman8421]

Cleveland wouldn't give up both picks. We'd like to keep at least one pick in this draft.

Wally/1st for Miller/Cardinal works for both teams if the Wolves want to move Miller. If they don't, a second isn't going to change their minds.

You'd pass on Mike Miller because of a 2nd round pick? My response to that would be "Too bad."

I'm saying, first, if Minnesota doesn't want to move Miller, the addition of a second round pick isn't going to change their minds.

Second, if they DO want to trade Miller, getting rid of Cardinal and clearing cap room, I don't think they'd be that hung up over a second round pick, if they're already getting a first, especially in a draft where they'd stand to have what... 5 first rounders?

If a little more was needed, as you say, I offered the rights to Sasha Kaun, and the idea to include Madsen for Allred's unguaranteed contract is a good one too.