MN WAS NJ MEM

[the_bruce]

NJ IN: #18, #23, C.Smith
NJ OUT: #11, SWAT

SAC IN: #6, #11
SAC OUT: #4, #23

WAS IN: Miller, Brown, Utah 1st
WAS OUT: Thomas, Stevenson, #5

MEM in #4, #5
MEM out #2

MN IN: #2, SWAT, Thomas, Stevenson
MN OUT: Miller, Brown, Smith, Utah 1st, #6

Why for NJ:
They drop spots and get a solid complimentary offensive player in Smith.

Why for SAC:
They could go after Rubio with #4 + Thompson, but they can take this route instead and go after a PG + something else to fill out their roster. Maybe Jennings + Clark. Curry + Clark? Holiday + Clark?

Why for WAS:
There are a billion variations of Mike Miller trades. I just tossed in this version because it is simple. Stevenson allows WAS to clear a bit more room next season to re-sign Miller or look elsewhere if need be.

Why for MEM:
If MEM isn't an ideal fit for Rubio why not take 2 shots at solid talent. The obvious choice is Hill @ 5 to fill the PF role. Perhaps reach at derozan because of his absurb upside.

Why for MN:
MN needs a PG more than any other team in the draft.

As a wolves fan I've never been sold on Rubio and personally I'd rather do the NJ and WAS portions. Take the 5 - evans, 6 - derozan, & 11 - lawson.

[Trader_Joe]

NJ IN: #18, #45, C.Smith
NJ OUT: #11, SWAT

SAC IN: #6, #11
SAC OUT: #4, #23

WAS IN: Miller, Brown, Utah 1st
WAS OUT: Thomas, Stevenson, #5

MEM in #4, #5, #23
MEM out #2

MN IN: #2, SWAT
MN OUT: Miller, Brown, Smith, Utah 1st, #6, #45

Why for NJ:
They drop spots and get a solid complimentary offensive player in Smith.

Why for SAC:
They could go after Rubio with #4 + Thompson, but they can take this route instead and go after a PG + something else to fill out their roster. Maybe Jennings + Clark. Curry + Clark? Holiday + Clark?

Why for WAS:
There are a billion variations of Mike Miller trades. I just tossed in this version because it is simple. Stevenson allows WAS to clear a bit more room next season to re-sign Miller or look elsewhere if need be.

Why for MEM:
If MEM isn't an ideal fit for Rubio why not take 2 shots at solid talent. The obvious choice is Hill @ 5 to fill the PF role. Perhaps reach at derozan because of his absurb upside.

Why for MN:
MN needs a PG more than any other team in the draft.

As a wolves fan I've never been sold on Rubio and personally I'd rather do the NJ and WAS portions. Take the 5 - evans, 6 - derozan, & 11 - lawson.

I like it for NJ, though now that I see some Minny fans eager to do it, I would lobby for the #28 over the #45
But do you think Rubio and his agent would be down with a trade to Minny?

[I am Ra]

I don't think Washington wants to move about 15 spots, for Bobby Brown and Mike Miller. I think they easily decline.

[the_bruce]

I like it for NJ, though now that I see some Minny fans eager to do it, I would lobby for the #28 over the #45
But do you think Rubio and his agent would be down with a trade to Minny?

Supposedly Rubio and his agent are concerned with role/fit on the team and not the market size. MN has what could be seen as the biggest hole at PG and ranked last in PG play this season.

I don't think Washington wants to move about 15 spots, for Bobby Brown and Mike Miller. I think they easily decline.

I think that's debatable. Miller is a solid fit for their team in terms of cost and availability. He can be effective in a non scoring role with assists and rebounds since WAS has several scoring options as it is so that's valuable. He can take it to the rack and drive/dish, is solid in transition, and is a lights out shooter when unguarded. Regardless, Minny has plenty of components to make an offer that is about as appealing to WAS as any team as I mentioned by the billion variations comment. This is merely the simplest.

They don't move any spots as is. They delay the pick and thus don't pay any lux tax this season on a rookie who won't get much playing time on a team filled with vets. Why pay a Rookie what equates to 4m a year when he won't get much playing time.

[ecuhus1981]

Memphis fan much?

The #2 pick is worth barely more than the #4 and the #23. Then you add the #5 pick???

I don't like the Nets' package. I could definitely go for a Simmons/Sean/Hassell/#11 for Cardinal/Miller/Gomes/#18 deal. Telfair could be substituted instead of Ryan, but IMO Craig really isn't the "moose" our FO feels we need.

[Trader_Joe]

Memphis fan much?

The #2 pick is worth barely more than the #4 and the #23. Then you add the #5 pick???

I don't like the Nets' package. I could definitely go for a Simmons/Sean/Hassell/#11 for Cardinal/Miller/Gomes/#18 deal. Telfair could be substituted instead of Ryan, but IMO Craig really isn't the "moose" our FO feels we need.

II think he's a Minny fan.

Also the #2 is worth alot more than #4 and #23.

Example of BPA's

Rubio > Harden + Budinger

[the_bruce]

Memphis fan much?

Read carefully much?

As a wolves fan I've never been sold on Rubio and personally I'd rather do the NJ and WAS portions. Take the 5 - evans, 6 - derozan, & 11 - lawson

I don't like the Nets' package. I could definitely go for a Simmons/Sean/Hassell/#11 for Cardinal/Miller/Gomes/#18 deal. Telfair could be substituted instead of Ryan, but IMO Craig really isn't the "moose" our FO feels we need.

Depends what the fit is I suppose. Some will think Smith fits the description others will not. Not a fan of your deal on the wolves end. The 23rd could just as easily be kicked to the nets to makeup your perceived difference.

The #2 pick is worth barely more than the #4 and the #23. Then you add the #5 pick???

This depends on what you think the value of Rubio is. I think it's an attractive offer for MEM & SAC. The NJ part isn't out of line for seven spots and kicking the 23rd to NJ instead could more than makeup the difference. I'll actually adjust that now. The WAS part is the biggest debatable point as I'm sure a more attractive offer can be made from other teams and MN and it really depends on the persons view of Miller as a fit on the team.

I think the value of the #2 is dependent on how highly you value rubio and where your team is in the draft. For me Harden @4-6 has slightly less value than Rubio @ 2, and the 23 more than makes up for it. Then again I'm not sold on Rubio as being better than some of the other players available in the 4-7 range. Other people who are very high on Rubio will think he is worth way more then the 4 & 5. I highly doubt he turns into a franchise caliber player. He certainly has the odds stacked with him that he turns into a very good PG. I mean how many non-freak athletes are franchise players in todays NBA?

[Trader_Joe]

I mean how many non-freak athletes are franchise players in todays NBA?

PGs now or recently
Nash
Kidd
Billups (maybe athletic, but does not win with athleticism)
D.Williams (never wowed me with athleticism)

SGs not so much

SFs
Anthony
Pierce
Durant

PFs
Dirk
Gasol
TD
Boozer

C
Ming
Z (if not for injuries could have been franchise level C)

Also don't forget about players from the past like Magic, Bird, Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Sabonis etc....

[nate33]

It's one of the few Mike Miller to Washington deals that makes sense because it relieves them of Stevenson's contract so that they can resign Miller. Speaking as a fan, I'd prefer not to do it though. The bottom line is that Miller, at age 29 and earning $10M a year, just isn't worth the #5 pick. However, if one looks at the money savings, it's possible to see how Washington's ownership would consider it. The Wizards save about $3.5M immediately (doubled because of the luxtax).

[the_bruce]

PGs now or recently
Nash
Kidd
Billups (maybe athletic, but does not win with athleticism)
D.Williams (never wowed me with athleticism)

I'm not going to speak to front court positions as most of those guys are pretty athletic relative to their position. Their combination of size, mobility, and length makeup part of their athletic ability so it's a bit harder to judge.

As for he PG's.

Deron Williams is fairly athletic, but definately not off the charts. Well above average though especially with the ball in his hands.

Nash and Billups took years to develop.

That leaves us with Kidd who is probably the only one on the list who is comparable. A big part of Kidd's skillset was his ability to rebound. Rubio doesn't and will never have this. He isn't a good enough leaper.

[the_bruce]

It's one of the few Mike Miller to Washington deals that makes sense because it relieves them of Stevenson's contract so that they can resign Miller. Speaking as a fan, I'd prefer not to do it though. The bottom line is that Miller, at age 29 and earning $10M a year, just isn't worth the #5 pick. However, if one looks at the money savings, it's possible to see how Washington's ownership would consider it. The Wizards save about $3.5M immediately (doubled because of the luxtax).

I agree that stevenson should be moved in any deal with WAS. Otherwise the pick trade is only fixing the Wiz for 1 year. The extra 4m from moving stevenson helps a ton in retaining or obtaining quality players in 2010. As for millers value talent and age considerations. I would say his salary is fair, but think in 2010 with the shrinking NBA economy and increased age he and everyone else is likely to sign for smaller deals. I'd guess a ~20% general decrease in pay for everyone, and another 10-20% based on his age. So I'd guess 6-7m would be his next contract and that contract is probably geared toward the Wiz's best interests with a team option and/or relatively short.

I think the best proposal for a WAS-MN swap is something like this though...
Trade 1: Thomas for Cardinal
Trade 2: James + Opec + Crit + stevenson + 5 for Miller & Gomes + utah pick

This opens up the most money possible via tpe, and crit can be removed depending on whether he would be more valuable than the money saved from lux. Simply filler in this example.