Suns get athletic and defensive revisited

[SideSwipe]

Okay folks, another long post, but here goes:

PHX trades:
Shaq, Tucker, RoLo
PHX receives from the Clips:
Davis, Camby, Jordan

LAC clears Davis off the books and returns a HOF center to team with Griffin

PHX trades:
Richardson
PHX receives from Utah:
Kirilenko

UTA gets more backcourt scoring to help Williams, and saves a couple million dollars.

PHX trades:
Nash, 2 2nd Rounders
PHX receives from CHA:
Wallace, #12

CHA changes Wallace in for Larry Browns dream of having an experienced guard be his floor general. CHA gives up Wallace, but Nash scores nearly as much and adds tons of assists to boot. This frees up CHA to let Felton walk or trade him away in a S&T. Nash reunities with good buddy Bell, and Diaw

PHX trades:
Stoudemire, #14
PHX receives from WAS:
Butler, Blatche, #5

PHX trades in STAT for Butler and Company to get back better wing play and defense, along with the #5.

PHX trades:
Barbosa
PHX receives
Ariza (S&T $7 million)

The Lakers add the PERFECT PG for the Triangle offense in exchange for Ariza's defense. (This deal needs to be figured out, as the S&T poortion doesn't work out straight just yet.)

Davis/ Dragic
Butler/ T. Williams (#12)/VMFA
Wallace/ Ariza/ Dudley
Kirilenko / Hill (#5)/ Amundson
Camby/ Blatche/ Jordan

Here is the final lineup. It adds several overpriced contracts, but it also seriously ups the defense and athleticism, along with adding youth. Let me know what you think. I am most interested in hearing from CHA on the fariness of their deal, most of the other deals have been discussed in some form or another.

[qclakers]

Not bad sideswipe. I have proposed Ak47 to PHX before and I really think it is a good fit for him. The Lakers would not s&t Ariza(they want him back) and certainly not for Barbosa.(I disagree about the PERFECT PG for the triangle, we need D and shooting from that position. Barbosa only does the latter) But the Ariza portion is mostly overkill anyway, since that would be a lot of money for him and Wallace at the 3. I also think that WAS would do the Amare deal without the #14 included and if I were PHX I would not want to include it. This way they could retool with young guys to take over when contracts start to run out in a yr or two. I would spend the picks this way. # 5 DeRozan/Harden (I like DD better long term)
#12 Johnny Flynn (a young PG similar to Davis and CP3)
#14 Earl Clark (compared to Lamar Odom but more explosive)

[deviljets7]

It starts off well, but I think you went into overkill with the Nash and Barbosa trades. That roster would be a very poor shooting teams and as any Wizards fan can tell you, Butler really isn't a SG.

I don't think the Nash/Wallace trade works under the CBA anyway.

[arh1109]

Feltons worth more to us then the capspace he'd free up so no thanks.

[SideSwipe]

Thanks for the feedback folks...

I noticed the shooting issue myself with the squad, there is hope. Maybe Ariza is too much. PHX could keep Barbosa, and make adjustments with the picks to accomodate the change.

Nash, #14 to GSW for Jackson, Buike and the #7

Davis/ Flynn/ Dragic
Jackson/Barbosa/ DeRozan
Butler/ Azubuike/ Clark
Kirilenko/ Blatche/ Amundson
Camby/ Jordan


Take a look....let me know what you think.

[Kerrsed]

Thanks for the feedback folks...

I noticed the shooting issue myself with the squad, there is hope. Maybe Ariza is too much. PHX could keep Barbosa, and make adjustments with the picks to accomodate the change.

Nash, #14 to GSW for Jackson, Buike and the #7

Davis/ Flynn/ Dragic
Jackson/Barbosa/ DeRozan
Butler/ Azubuike/ Clark
Kirilenko/ Blatche/ Amundson
Camby/ Jordan


Take a look....let me know what you think.

I like it, but then again im partial to ANY trade that involves Nash leaving town. That line up would be awesome. I agree that Flynn will turn out to be a Baron type player, so would be great to have him develop under him. We also would have a REAL deep and solid bench. I dont know if Utah would ever go for a JRICH type player, but assuming all deals went through i would be 110% satisfied with this line-up for the next 4-5 years. GREAT POST OP!!

[arh1109]

Thanks for the feedback folks...

I noticed the shooting issue myself with the squad, there is hope. Maybe Ariza is too much. PHX could keep Barbosa, and make adjustments with the picks to accomodate the change.

Nash, #14 to GSW for Jackson, Buike and the #7

Davis/ Flynn/ Dragic
Jackson/Barbosa/ DeRozan
Butler/ Azubuike/ Clark
Kirilenko/ Blatche/ Amundson
Camby/ Jordan


Take a look....let me know what you think.

I don't see that deal being very realistic, probably should take out the picks. Nash is a tough cookie to find a home for but that's do able. Barbosa could start at the 2 and be a rich mans Monta Ellis. Imo you could keep Stat and continue to compete if you make the 1st and jrich deal.

Davis/ Flynn
Barbosa/Azubuike
Jackson/Azubuike
Stat/Kirilenko
Camby/Stat/Jordan

Hell that team would probably make the playoffs if no major injuries occur.

[NashtyNas]

Oh yeah, trade away the whole team. Fortunately, this will never happen. The LAL-PHX deal is terrible. Not to mention Washington wouldn't do that deal because they have Jamison, and this scenario does not help us get any younger and pretty much further destroys our future apart from Jordan Hill, Terrence Williams and DeAndre Jordan, none of which look like a sure fire star, let alone super star.

[SideSwipe]

Alright, who pissed in SD's wheaties. If you are judging trades on this board by likelihood of actually happening, there would be noone on this board. Secondly, If Nash wants more money and Stat is unhappy, then trade them. Honestly the person I wanted to keep the most was Barbosa, though Nash pre-comments was way above him. This is an excerize in seeing what we might be able to accomplish with the current assets in hand. The deals I have listed are all possible, though each may need some tweaking here and there.

On the GSW deal, I could see it leaning a little bit in PHX's favor. The biggest gap in the lineup is a Killer big-man scoring option, that is why I was inclined to lean toward Hill in the OP, who seemed the best big available at that spot in the draft. Now if I could bundle what's left over over to the Paper Clips for Grffin, now we're talking. See if you can figure it out. I would love to take a look at a lineup of:

Davis
Jackson
Kirilenko
Griffin
Camby

Let's see if we can figure that one out and what bench we might have left over.

[qclakers]

Alright, who pissed in SD's wheaties. If you are judging trades on this board by likelihood of actually happening, there would be noone on this board. Secondly, If Nash wants more money and Stat is unhappy, then trade them. Honestly the person I wanted to keep the most was Barbosa, though Nash pre-comments was way above him. This is an excerize in seeing what we might be able to accomplish with the current assets in hand. The deals I have listed are all possible, though each may need some tweaking here and there.

On the GSW deal, I could see it leaning a little bit in PHX's favor. The biggest gap in the lineup is a Killer big-man scoring option, that is why I was inclined to lean toward Hill in the OP, who seemed the best big available at that spot in the draft. Now if I could bundle what's left over over to the Paper Clips for Grffin, now we're talking. See if you can figure it out. I would love to take a look at a lineup of:

Davis
Jackson
Kirilenko
Griffin
Camby

Let's see if we can figure that one out and what bench we might have left over.

Ok now its getting a little off track. PHX will not get Griffin. But lets see if we can simplify all this a little. For a second lets not worry so much about the draft picks. Combine a couple of the better/most realistic options and see what comes of it.
Shaq/Tucker for Davis and Camby (The Clips would want Jordan to develop behind Shaq)

JRich for AK47 (Saves Utah some money and moves a malcontent for a need)

Nash for Jackson, Azubuike

Even stop at that and this is the very exciting and deep new look Suns...... Still pick Clark@14

Amare/Camby/Lopez
AK47/Amare/Clark
Hill/Jackson
Azubuike/Barbosa
Davis/Barbosa/Dragic

[rsavaj]

i like the clips trade and the utah trade, but trading nash and barbosa makes me

[qclakers]

i like the clips trade and the utah trade, but trading nash and barbosa makes me

Well in my last scenario you get to keep Barbosa at least. I know a lot of Suns fans would be sad to see Nash go but if the team keeps Nash it will hurt them long term. The Suns are in that fork in the road. Try to make moves even if unpopular to stay competitive or drive everyone mad by completely rebuilding(might be the best long term). These deals(see above) keep them as contenders for a few more years so they can start adding young pieces gradually.(which they totally botched the last couple of years by selling picks)

[SideSwipe]

No matter how we slice it, the unrealistic, or more realistic, the Suns have pieces to keep this team going. So long as we are willing to take back 2010 salary and hand-out some players, we can make a good run at this. It is very realisitic to have J-Rich and Shaq get moved in the above scenario. Your team above QC would be a tough one. It's not a rebuild, which was my original goal, but it does get more defensive and slightly more athletic.

Also, in the above scenario we miss out on Butler, Wallace and Ariza who were a few targets I was considering, but I can't say I'd be upset if the team ended up like the one QC has above.

[qclakers]

No matter how we slice it, the unrealistic, or more realistic, the Suns have pieces to keep this team going. So long as we are willing to take back 2010 salary and hand-out some players, we can make a good run at this. It is very realisitic to have J-Rich and Shaq get moved in the above scenario. Your team above QC would be a tough one. It's not a rebuild, which was my original goal, but it does get more defensive and slightly more athletic.

Also, in the above scenario we miss out on Butler, Wallace and Ariza who were a few targets I was considering, but I can't say I'd be upset if the team ended up like the one QC has above.

My proposal was really just off the top of my head using the best and easiest accomplished deals. In that scenario I would also call TOR to see if they would be interested in a Barbosa for #9, Humphries swap. That way PHX could draft DeRozan who I think is gonna end up one of the best picks in this draft a couple years from now. I would also try to buy or trade for a late pick to get Darren Collison. He is a very good defensive PG. That would still put good youngn's Collison,DeRozan,Clark,Lopez to develop behind that starting lineup. And yeah Wallace,Ariza, and Butler are all nice players but not really needed as much with G Hill and captain Jack. (I also thought the Nash to GS was way more plausible than the trade w/CHA)

[Kerrsed]

[ejftw]

Take out the Lopez/Jordan swap and its fine.

I'm one of the many who don't want to dump Davis after one year, but the publicity of Shaq back in the Staples Center is too intruiging to pass up. If we can follow this up with a Kaman for Hinrich deal, it'd be great.

[Kerrsed]

We need some non-Suns fans imput. qclakers will change his name to qcsuns in the next 2 years.
So..........

GoldenState - Would you trade Jackson , Azubuike, #7 FOR Nash and #14 ?
Or would the picks need to be taken out?

Clipper Nation - Would you accept Shaq/Tucker for Baron/Camby?
You get out of Davis's crazy contract and get a HUGE expiring for 2010. Gives Griffin a year to learn some new stuff from The Big Expiring. Tucker is a great defender (no wonder we never use him) and also a expiring. 22mill off the books next year to start building around Griffin.

Utah - Im already guessing you would love JRICH over AK47. Andre is DONE in Utah. Even if he were to play for them next year, i dont see him doing much, thus dropping his value even more. A player like Richardson is what Utah has been missing. Pure firepower that can cut to the hoop and finish/ and is a major 3 point threat. Having both those abilities allows great floor spacing. I would love to keep Richardson but we have the same exact player in Barbosa (Wonder how Kerr didnt see this!?!?)

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If the Suns made those three trades we would be pretty set for the next 3-5 years. Baron and Jackson (5yrs.), AK47, Barbosa, STAT and Dragic (3yrs.). Having a starting 5 of :

Baron Davis
Leondro Barbosa
Stephen Jackson
Andrei Kirilenko
Amare Stoudemire

would be Epic!

[qclakers]

We need some non-Suns fans imput. qclakers will change his name to qcsuns in the next 2 years. So..........

GoldenState - Would you trade Jackson , Azubuike, #7 FOR Nash and #14 ?
Or would the picks need to be taken out?

Clipper Nation - Would you accept Shaq/Tucker for Baron/Camby?
You get out of Davis's crazy contract and get a HUGE expiring for 2010. Gives Griffin a year to learn some new stuff from The Big Expiring. Tucker is a great defender (no wonder we never use him) and also a expiring. 22mill off the books next year to start building around Griffin.

Utah - Im already guessing you would love JRICH over AK47. Andre is DONE in Utah. Even if he were to play for them next year, i dont see him doing much, thus dropping his value even more. A player like Richardson is what Utah has been missing. Pure firepower that can cut to the hoop and finish/ and is a major 3 point threat. Having both those abilities allows great floor spacing. I would love to keep Richardson but we have the same exact player in Barbosa (Wonder how Kerr didnt see this!?!?)

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If the Suns made those three trades we would be pretty set for the next 3-5 years. Baron and Jackson (5yrs.), AK47, Barbosa, STAT and Dragic (3yrs.). Having a starting 5 of :

Baron Davis
Leondro Barbosa
Stephen Jackson
Andrei Kirilenko
Amare Stoudemire

would be Epic!

Very funny! But I have been here fifteen yrs and I am still fanatical about my hometown team. But the Suns intrigue me. I think with the right moves they can be in great shape or they can fall apart with the wrong moves. To me they need to go all the way with deals like this or all the way with rebuilding with youth, cap and picks. It is when teams tinker with no real direction that they end up stuck in the mud of mediocrity.

[Kerrsed]

I have been here fifteen yrs and I am still fanatical about my hometown team.

15 years......i dont think the Lakers should qualify as a "Hometown Team".

[qclakers]

I have been here fifteen yrs and I am still fanatical about my hometown team.

15 years......i dont think the Lakers should qualify as a "Hometown Team".

Ok original Hometown. I idolized Magic growing up and loved the Lakers so that will not change. Same with the Dodgers in baseball for that matter. But because I live here now I follow a lot of what goes on with the local teams and like to think I can be objective. I am not one of those who hates all of my teams rivals(except in football).