Sac/Phil/Mem: Sac gets Rubio and T. Young, Martin to Mem

[wd707]

I never met so many people ( not anyone specifically) but it seems like if you say this person is better then them you people take it as that person is bad.

Look bottom line young isnt and wont ever be as good as martin. That doesnt mean young is bad.

[KF10]

Bottom line if anyone thinks young will ever be as good and on the level of kevin martin there dreaming.

Its a fact. the same way i know martin will never be as good as jordan.

Well, how can you know that for certain?

I'm going to play devil's advocate. After 1.5 years into Martin's career, most people see him as a back up, rotational player at BEST. When people say other wise, they were delusional. But as we know, Martin exploded to an extent it was even historical in a sense.

Never say never. Anything is possible.

[doctor him]

I never met so many people ( not anyone specifically) but it seems like if you say this person is better then them you people take it as that person is bad.

Look bottom line young isnt and wont ever be as good as martin. That doesnt mean young is bad.

A couple questions then:

1. What else does Martin do besides score?
2. What were Martin's scoring averages in his first 2 seasons compared to Young's?

And now our answers:

1. Not much
2. Martin averaged 2.9 and then 10.8 points per game his first 2 seasons. Young averaged 8.2 and then 15.3 points per game in his first 2 seasons.

By the way...Young got almost 16 a game and the Sixers just started running plays for him in the playoffs.

Oh yeah...and Young entered the league at 19 where Martin entered at 21, so Young (who isn't even 21 yet) has upside as high as anyone in the league. On his current track (oh yeah...the kid is extremely coachable and a hard worker) and with an actual coach this year, I'd be disappointed to not see Thad near 20 a game this season.

So...why exactly can't Young be better than Martin? (Some actual facts would be nice here)

[dilbert719]

I never met so many people ( not anyone specifically) but it seems like if you say this person is better then them you people take it as that person is bad.

Typical. Homer. Have fun thinking young will ever be a legit player in the nba like kevin martin is.

The bolded part is likely where people are getting the idea that you suggested Thaddeus Young is a bad player. If, as you imply, it is homeristic to suggest that Young will ever be a legit player in the NBA, what, then, must he be? What is the alternative to a legit player?

I thoroughly disagree with your premise that Young, at 20 already a quality player, does not have the capacity to reach the level of Kevin Martin, who at 26 clearly is coming into the peak of his physical skill. Will he? That's for time to tell. But it is short-sighted to rule out the possibility based on two NBA seasons in Young's physical development that match up with two of Martin's years at Western Carolina, rather than with his time in Sacramento.

[51X3RF4N]

Because the dude is a Thad hater and a Martin lover. That's why. Mere facts and statistical proof mean nothing to him.

The fact that Young is almost 5 years younger, and avgd more ppg than Martin his first 2 years means nothing, because RIGHT NOW, Martin is doing really well as a player. Young is just doing ok for a 2nd year player(even that is an understatement).

Martin was what, 23 years old when he got 10 more ppg in 10 more mpg?

What happens if Thad gets another 4 MPG and avg's 20 ppg at age 21? Then if he is avg'ing 25 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg, and 2 spg at age 23, will he be considered better than Martin? I mean, you said it yourself, Martin will never be as good as Jordan. So do you expect Martin to hit his ceiling at 26-27ppg? What is stopping Thad from doing that in the next 3-4 years?

The point is, WHO KNOWS?

[Smills91]

And the Thad Young/Martin pissing match ensues....

[wd707]

Seems like every year kevin martin gets hate or whatever. ONe years its OH MY GOD BEN GORDON IS SOOO MUCH BETTER then kevin martin then after that doesnt work out its, oh my god monta ellis is and will be better then kevin martin. Now it seems as if people THINK young WILL BE better then kevin martin.

Dont say thats not what your saying BECAUSE MY ONLY, ONLY point is that young will never be on the level of kevin martin. NO matter HOW MANY LESS POINTS now that he averages in less minutes. I bet your one of those per 48 mins guys to.

[51X3RF4N]

Again, to your only, only point, where do you think Martin's ceiling lies?

Does he peak at 29ppg? 30ppg? 26ppg? Does he win 5 NBA titles to build his legacy? Does he make a certain number of NBA All-Star games to "Prove" the level he is on?

My only, only point is this: How do you judge the level of a player and how can you count out Thaddeus Young from ever being on the same "level" as a guy like Martin?

If you could answer that with things other than "my opinion" or "he is just elite" or "he has IT", since those answers are all opinions, not facts, then I will understand what you are saying more clearly.

You can't justify an argument that one player will ALWAYS be better or "on another level" than another player based solely on the fact that the first player is CURRENTLY "on another level". Things change. Martin COULD have a terrible year while Thaddeus flourishes. Does that put them on the same level?

Look at a guy like TMAC. Comes into the league. Avg's 7ppg, 9ppg, then ups it to 15ppg. Following year, 26ppg. Followed by 6 straight seasons of 24ppg or more. He was "on another level" than Martin in 2005. In fact, he was on Kobe's level at that point. I bet when you look back then, you NEVER thought KMartin would EVER be on TMAC's level, when he was averaging a mere 10 ppg.

Well, the past 2 seasons, Kevin has avg'd 23ppg to TMac's 21ppg, and 24ppg to TMac's 15ppg.

And most people would argue that they would rather have Kevin Martin than Tracy McGrady as of 2 years ago and going into the future.

So, doesn't that mean Martin is on the same level, if not on another level than TMac now?

I'm just trying to see where you are coming from.

[wd707]

I think martin is on the level of mcgradys career if not better. And I dont see young ever being that good of a player.

[youngcrev]

I think martin is on the level of mcgradys career if not better. And I dont see young ever being that good of a player.

There's your problem...

[sixerswillrule]

Umm, McGrady was neck and neck with Kobe in his prime...

[wd707]

I wouldnt say neck and neck in his prime. I HATE KOBE so much and I would even say mcgrady was a little lower then kobe. Thats where I see Martin a very LOW 1st option BUT A GREAT, EXCELLENT 2nd option.

[UptownPhilly]

Phila pass.Unless we are getting Rubio, Thad Young is not going anywhere.

My thoughts exactly.

Young is being undervalued here
He is>>>Conley
The #4 in this draft = crap shoot/ just not worth it when we can use other pieces to move into the lottery.

I won't cry if we deal him, but not for this package.

I also don't like the idea of adding Udrih. Dalembert expires 2011, I'd rather go that route.

We'd be better off trading Speights/#17 for a pick somewher between 5-12 to take a shot on Evans/Curry/Holiday and Maybe even Harden.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Thaddeus Young is just as good, if not BETTER then Kevin Martin. The impact Thaddeus Young has on our team is just TREMENDOUS. On the fast break, Young's speed and size allows him to break down fast break defenses allowing us to get layup drills.

Thad's a good low post player. He can iso from the middle, to the outside, he can shoot the 3. Oh, and he's only 20 years old.

Thaddeus Young is the next PP.

[wd707]

Yea ok, I think I'm done with this topic when people say Young is just as good if NOT BETTER THEN kevin martin. Hey when young avgs 23 and 24 points per game let me know ok??

[doctor him]

I think martin is on the level of mcgradys career if not better. And I dont see young ever being that good of a player.

Wow. I think that's your problem right there.

T-Mac when healthy could score, rebound, pass and (at times) defend. In fact, I think his injuries are what held him back from being a a better defender was the injury bug that he couldn't shake. It's a shame really, because he could've been what Kobe is right now.

But Martin isn't nor ever will be in that class. Neither will Young. Neither player belongs in the same sentence as a healthy T-Mac.

You want to have a better comparison for Martin? How about a slightly more well rounded Michael Redd (pre injury)? Or an Allan Houston?

Stop judging players by the scoring column and learn some basketball. It's a great game.

[doctor him]

Yea ok, I think I'm done with this topic when people say Young is just as good if NOT BETTER THEN kevin martin. Hey when young avgs 23 and 24 points per game let me know ok??

You do know that Martin is the first (and basically only) option on offense for Sac-Town. Right? It'd be a crime if he didn't get 22+ a night. Now give him credit...it's harder to score as the focal point of the other teams defense, but he gets the majority of plays run for him.

Young came into the season as the Sixers 4th option on offense behind (Brand, Iguodala and Miller). It's pretty remarkable to get over 15 a game when they don't run plays for you and your scoring is an afterthought in the offense.

(In fact...if Mo had run some of the offense through Thad he'd probably still be coaching here, though it probably was wise considering how young Thad is.)

Point is that we don't know where Thad tops out yet, but he had a great rookie year and an even better sophomore year. Personally, I expect him to get 20 a game by next season and if they ever let him play his natural position (the 3) then that'll happen even sooner.

But to say that he has no chance to be better than what Martin is right now when Thad is 25 is to be fairly ignorant of the game of basketball.