Kings - Jazz (improved)

[Smills91]

Kings deal:
Kevin Martin
Andres Nocioni

Jazz deal:
AK-47
Ronnie Brewer
Kryrlo Fesenko
NY 1st rounder

Jazz become contenders
Kings become set for their overall rebuild.

New rosters:

Utah Jazz:
C: Mehmet Okur, Kosta Koufos, Goran Suton
PF: Carlos Boozer, Paul Millsap
SF: Andres Nocioni, Kyle Korver, Matt Harpring
SG: Kevin Martin, CJ Miles, Wesley Matthews
PG: Deron Williams, Ronnie Price, Eric Maynor

Sacramento Kings:
C: Spencer Hawes, Kryrlo Fesenko
PF: Jason Thompson, Sean May, Jon Brockman, Kenny Thomas
SF: Andrei Kirilenko, Omri Casspi, Donte Greene
SG: Ronnie Brewer, Desmond Mason, Francisco Garcia
PG: Tyreke Evans, Beno Udrih, Sergio Rodriguez

[loserX]

I'm not crazy about getting so much worse defensively (2 of our 3 best defenders go out for guys who are worse at it...and it's not our strength to begin with) but the Jazz would at least have to look hard at this.

[RIPskaterdude]

If the Jazz pulled this off, they would easily be the 3rd best team in the West. What a starting lineup that would be

[RIPskaterdude]

By the way, the Kings would only think about this if it was right before the trade deadline. No way the Kings make that trade if NY wins 30+ games. It would have to be a top 8 pick for the Kings to even consider it.

[Smills91]

I'm not crazy about getting so much worse defensively (2 of our 3 best defenders go out for guys who are worse at it...and it's not our strength to begin with) but the Jazz would at least have to look hard at this.

Sure brewer gets more steals, but the defensive gap is far less than the offensive gap along with the shooting efficiency martin brings. One thing I always notice about the jazz is their need forshooters to open the floor. This nets two great deep ball shooters, allows korver to come off the bench to keep shooters on the floor and this opens up swill to dribble drive and gives boozer room to operate to score or set up a shooter(booz is a very underrated passer). Noc is a different type of defender than am, but worse? There's only so long ak can ride his reputation As an elite defender cuz he hasn't been elite defensively in over four years now. Martin + DWill = best backcourt in the NBA for the next half decade. Add vets like noc, booz and omit and the jazz have a top 3 starting line-up in the whole league and probably a top 5 rotation of 1-9.

This deal is a no-brained for Utah.

[KF10]

The Knicks pick is the changing variable here. I'm not risking Kevin Martin for that.

[loserX]

I'm not crazy about getting so much worse defensively (2 of our 3 best defenders go out for guys who are worse at it...and it's not our strength to begin with) but the Jazz would at least have to look hard at this.

Sure brewer gets more steals, but the defensive gap is far less than the offensive gap along with the shooting efficiency martin brings. One thing I always notice about the jazz is their need forshooters to open the floor. This nets two great deep ball shooters, allows korver to come off the bench to keep shooters on the floor and this opens up swill to dribble drive and gives boozer room to operate to score or set up a shooter(booz is a very underrated passer). Noc is a different type of defender than am, but worse? There's only so long ak can ride his reputation As an elite defender cuz he hasn't been elite defensively in over four years now. Martin + DWill = best backcourt in the NBA for the next half decade. Add vets like noc, booz and omit and the jazz have a top 3 starting line-up in the whole league and probably a top 5 rotation of 1-9.

This deal is a no-brained for Utah.

Brewer is a much, much better defender than Martin (and it's not just about steals), and while AK is no longer an elite defender he is still markedly better than Nocioni, who never was one. Yes, Utah improves its offence considerably, and for that reason they have to consider it, but we get considerably worse on defence. We're now left with one above-average defender, and that's Millsap. And if there's one thing last year has shown, it's that teams that are all-O-no-D tend to wind up in the lottery. So it's not a no-brainer despite the talent we get, although we might still do it.

[shrink]

I didn't realize you started a new thread with the trade, so I moved this post:

I'd sub AK-47 for Harpring/Korver if the Kings keep their 2nd rounder. I thought Utah would like to keep AK for a contention push.

Martin
Nocioni

for

Ak-47
Brewer
Fesenko
NY 1st rounder

I think that deal has the most promise, but you'll need to do two things:

1. Jazz like Brewer and Fesenko. Pick someone else.

2. Use your cap space to eat as much expiring salary that the 125% + $100,000 limit will allow. Maybe Utah pays you cash for it, but that gives the Jazz incentive because they are over the lux.

Quickly, I would convert it to:

Kevin Martin + Nocioni + Brockman for NYK pick + Kirlenko + Korver (exp) + cash?

Jazz save about $4 mil .. doubled its worth $8 mil. I'm assuming Korver's knee surgery will make his productivity questionable, and the Jazz include cash in the deal based on Korver's prognosis. That uncertainty leaves open the door for the Jazz could try to sign Korver in 2011 if they want him, or the Knicks could just buy him out and he could return.

[Ricepilar]

This is a home run for the Jazz.

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't know who's saying Andres is a worse defender. I'd put him up against AK-47 in that department any day.

[CAE15]

ill say this; it would be hard to turn down, great proposal.

[cdt3]

Kirilenko is a better perimeter defender, Nocioni is a better interior defender.

There is no way that the Kings will trade Kevin Martin. They are already rebuilt now except a role player here or there. Last year Brandon Roy and Steve Blake were the only starters for Portland that were not rookies (Batum, Oden) or 2nd year (Aldridge). This was why their coach would not start Bayless even though he was the most talented PG.

The Kings have a similar now with Mason and Martin as the vets, and Thompson (2nd), Evans (R), and Hawes (3rd). The Kings just looked so bad when Martin was injured vs the Jazz because they started Casspi and there was too much youth to finish. Who will open the floor for Tyreke and Mason who are terrible shooters right now? Martin is an elite shooter and perfect fit for a young Tyreke and old Mason. They have looked good when we have had the full roster.

[Smills91]

Kirilenko is a better perimeter defender, Nocioni is a better interior defender.

There is no way that the Kings will trade Kevin Martin. They are already rebuilt now except a role player here or there. Last year Brandon Roy and Steve Blake were the only starters for Portland that were not rookies (Batum, Oden) or 2nd year (Aldridge). This was why their coach would not start Bayless even though he was the most talented PG.

The Kings have a similar now with Mason and Martin as the vets, and Thompson (2nd), Evans (R), and Hawes (3rd). The Kings just looked so bad when Martin was injured vs the Jazz because they started Casspi and there was too much youth to finish. Who will open the floor for Tyreke and Mason who are terrible shooters right now? Martin is an elite shooter and perfect fit for a young Tyreke and old Mason. They have looked good when we have had the full roster.

What? That's not true.

AK-47 is a better weakside HELP defender, Nocioni is a better on-the-ball defender. I'd say the match-up is a push defensively.

[OGSactownballer]

I actually feel that the Kings are still a little on the short end of this - even moreso in shrink's version. If you go to that (following my philosophy from the other thread that BOTH sides have to give some REAL value to make a trade work), then that version leaves the Kings short. I would see adding in the Jazz's own #1 to help even out the balance since we are not getting a SG back to help fill the position void in losing Martin (who takes up 40 mpg).

I know all the guys here will harp on the Evans at SG train, but I still do not see that being the plan, and therefore I really don't see Martin being moved at all unless it is a home run Richmond-for-Webber type of deal that we just can't walk away from.

[Smills91]

I actually feel that the Kings are still a little on the short end of this - even moreso in shrink's version. If you go to that (following my philosophy from the other thread that BOTH sides have to give some REAL value to make a trade work), then that version leaves the Kings short. I would see adding in the Jazz's own #1 to help even out the balance since we are not getting a SG back to help fill the position void in losing Martin (who takes up 40 mpg).

I know all the guys here will harp on the Evans at SG train, but I still do not see that being the plan, and therefore I really don't see Martin being moved at all unless it is a home run Richmond-for-Webber type of deal that we just can't walk away from.

I disagree, I think it's great value for both sides, and it accomplishes goals that are congruent with each team's direction. Sure the Knicks pick is a variable, but go look at their roster, there is no way in hell they win more than 25 games. It'll easily be a top 10 pick.

[RIPskaterdude]

And what happens if the Knicks win 35-40 games? Is Kevin Martin worth a 10-15 pick + Brewer + salary relief? No.

[endo]

One of the few non-homer trades by Smills!

[shrink]

.. well it's $35 million in salary relief in 2011-13.

[Smills91]

One of the few non-homer trades by Smills!

It's more than a few, i'm a volume poster.

[deviljets7]

One of the few non-homer trades by Smills!

It's more than a few, i'm a volume poster.

Does that make you the Jamal Crawford of RealGM?

Anyway, this is a very interesting trade. My gut says the Jazz turn it down since they lose 2 of their 3 best defenders, but it looks pretty solid all the way around.