2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 9

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I think singling out Tyler for offensive woes would be like trying to single out Bam for defensive woes. Just because neither guy can fix all our problems, I don't see the point of heaping the blame on them. It is what it is, team's outmatched.

When it comes to replacing what they bring, I think 15 years ago Bam's the more valuable guy no doubt and you move Tyler first. But in the modern era, even though I dislike this style of ball, I actually think they're close to even simply due to Tyler's shooting. He's without a doubt a top 5 shooter in the league factoring in all the ways you can take a 3 (off the dribble, step back, catch and shoot, dho etc) with an actually impressive midrange bag and a willingness to drive and take hard fouls. The only thing is, he's physically not capable of being the lead guy, he can still get bullied physically and isn't elite 1v1 (has to use screens to do damage usually).

All that being said, I don't think its an easy decision if you're trying to keep one, which is more valuable. I love Bam but offensively, he's not really a huge plus value guy unless you're playing him at center, and I don't know if that's where he wants to be long term. And it depends who is replacing who. I don't think we have a shot at Giannis, but I think if you can get him, Tyler pairs better with him than Bam does. Bam pairs better with an Anthony Edwards. These are moot points for now, but I guess something to consider if the opportunity arises.

[twix2500]

So you don't think a lead ballhandler's ability to read the court and pass to advantage when a defense sends extra help matters in that discussion?

To be clear, Cleveland is just giving soft coverage to the perimeter as a whole aside from Herro (and specialized shooters like Duncan). Miami should actually be working to find more 3 pt looks off of that, but I contend that the floor game hasn't really been there and Herro hasn't really bent the defense to force that issue.

Some bias is showing... but do you.

I get it, perimeter creators are fun. I wish Miami had another one so that all the pieces could fit.

I agree that there is bias. There has to be some level of bias being shown when everyone can admit that Tyler is getting all the defensive attention, but we still can't have any expectations of others to take advantage of that.

If we were still talking about defense and Tyler that'd be one thing. Actually if we were talking about Tyler needing to be more forceful in getting beyond the ball denials, I'd even have some agreement there too. But pinning the offensive problems on him is bizarre. Even in the clip that was just posted, what I see is Tyler clearly taking the tougher defender away from Wiggins on a brush screen so that he can go to work and the Cavs CAN'T just zone the paint like they would if it was Tyler doing it. Instead of this being recognized it's WHAT IS TYLER DOING? WHY CAN'T HE TAKE DEAN WADE OFF THE DRIBBLE?? lol like huh?

I'm sorry but the fact that we can't even talk about Wiggins and Bam being able to score against their matchups when they are giving them one on one coverage and less help support since they don't want to come off Tyler's body, is wild.

I haven't pinned offensive problems on anything but the team construct as a whole. Tyler is essential for us being close to afloat on offense.

Who can't talk about Wiggins and Bam? I'd wager 25% of the posts in this 100 page thread are criticizing Bam for not being enough on offense. It seems to me you just (1) get irked by Bammy trolling and (2) need some sort of consensus among all fans to validate your full level of displeasure with the players you deem unfit. And in the absence of that, injustice is rampant!

That was a wild take to say we cant even talk about Wiggins and Bam. LOL. Criticisms has been about Bam and Wiggins for the first two games. To feel offended because Herro getting critics is wild.

[Shewasfly]

So you don't think a lead ballhandler's ability to read the court and pass to advantage when a defense sends extra help matters in that discussion?

To be clear, Cleveland is just giving soft coverage to the perimeter as a whole aside from Herro (and specialized shooters like Duncan). Miami should actually be working to find more 3 pt looks off of that, but I contend that the floor game hasn't really been there and Herro hasn't really bent the defense to force that issue.

Some bias is showing... but do you.

I get it, perimeter creators are fun. I wish Miami had another one so that all the pieces could fit.

I agree that there is bias. There has to be some level of bias being shown when everyone can admit that Tyler is getting all the defensive attention, but we still can't have any expectations of others to take advantage of that.

If we were still talking about defense and Tyler that'd be one thing. Actually if we were talking about Tyler needing to be more forceful in getting beyond the ball denials, I'd even have some agreement there too. But pinning the offensive problems on him is bizarre. Even in the clip that was just posted, what I see is Tyler clearly taking the tougher defender away from Wiggins on a brush screen so that he can go to work and the Cavs CAN'T just zone the paint like they would if it was Tyler doing it. Instead of this being recognized it's WHAT IS TYLER DOING? WHY CAN'T HE TAKE DEAN WADE OFF THE DRIBBLE?? lol like huh?

I'm sorry but the fact that we can't even talk about Wiggins and Bam being able to score against their matchups when they are giving them one on one coverage and less help support since they don't want to come off Tyler's body, is wild.

I haven't pinned offensive problems on anything but the team construct as a whole. Tyler is essential for us being close to afloat on offense.

Who can't talk about Wiggins and Bam? I'd wager 25% of the posts in this 100 page thread are criticizing Bam for not being enough on offense. It seems to me you just (1) get irked by Bammy trolling and (2) need some sort of consensus among all fans to validate your full level of displeasure with the players you deem unfit. And in the absence of that, injustice is rampant!

I don't get irked by reading anything on here and I have had that poster on ignore for a long time.

On your second point, I am going to go ahead and not take it down the road you are attempting to with those comments. I'm baking and in a sweet mood. Instead I will invite you to go and re-read the last few pages of this thread and reassess the ridiculousness of your comment that having a debate and the other person disagreeing with you and presenting points to support their side is them calling injustice.

And of all people on here, that I seek consensus.

[twix2500]

Pointing out another disappointment from what Iv seen in this playoffs. The difference between the IQ and Leadership on the court from Butler, Lowry and Tucker compared to Bam, Herro and Wiggins. The lack of ability to vocally lead and direct the team to exposed the opponent is glaring. And missing Love on the bench is probably a huge voice missed. I do see Highsmith yelling at players directing them but it appears they blow him off a lot. Butler, Tucker and Lowry were very good coaches on the court. And I was really expecting more from Wiggins, Herro and Bam in this area.

[Kobewade11]

I think singling out Tyler for offensive woes would be like trying to single out Bam for defensive woes. Just because neither guy can fix all our problems, I don't see the point of heaping the blame on them. It is what it is, team's outmatched.

When it comes to replacing what they bring, I think 15 years ago Bam's the more valuable guy no doubt and you move Tyler first. But in the modern era, even though I dislike this style of ball, I actually think they're close to even simply due to Tyler's shooting. He's without a doubt a top 5 shooter in the league factoring in all the ways you can take a 3 (off the dribble, step back, catch and shoot, dho etc) with an actually impressive midrange bag and a willingness to drive and take hard fouls. The only thing is, he's physically not capable of being the lead guy, he can still get bullied physically and isn't elite 1v1 (has to use screens to do damage usually).

All that being said, I don't think its an easy decision if you're trying to keep one, which is more valuable. I love Bam but offensively, he's not really a huge plus value guy unless you're playing him at center, and I don't know if that's where he wants to be long term. And it depends who is replacing who. I don't think we have a shot at Giannis, but I think if you can get him, Tyler pairs better with him than Bam does. Bam pairs better with an Anthony Edwards. These are moot points for now, but I guess something to consider if the opportunity arises.

The thing about not moving Bam is its as much about the person as it is on court product. And I get it - the NBA is a business and as a franchise you want guys that represent you well and Bam does that. No diva tendencies, works hard, no off the court issues, treats everyone in the organization well. For all the crap we get about not taking care of our own, Bam is the antithesis to that, we've made sure he's taken care of at every stop. I would say the same things about Herro. But we've been willing to part with the latter for the right deal, the former has been a non-starter in trade talks. Remember we turned down an opportunity to pair KD with that other guy that used to play here because of that. As I've said I fully expect the team to canvass the league for the best talent they can acquire while keeping Herro, Bam, and likely Ware but that may prove to be too challenging.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Pointing out another disappointment from what Iv seen in this playoffs. The difference between the IQ and Leadership on the court from Butler, Lowry and Tucker compared to Bam, Herro and Wiggins. The lack of ability to vocally lead and direct the team to exposed the opponent is glaring. And missing Love on the bench is probably a huge voice missed. I do see Highsmith yelling at players directing them but it appears they blow him off a lot. Butler, Tucker and Lowry were very good coaches on the court. And I was really expecting more from Wiggins, Herro and Bam in this area.

We only have 1 guy being vocal at all times, it’s not everyone pitching in like it was with that group. I’m not sure Wiggins has said a word since coming to Miami and Herro is likely too focused checking the stat board to keep up with his points

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If both Bam and Herro were announced on the market you all know damn well who we’d be getting more calls about and have more interest in between the two lol, we don’t have to pretend

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Don’t forget Jimmy’s bestie fat ass Erny came out the other day and said Ja really wants to be in Miami and thinks it’ll get done this summer. Could be something, could be nothing.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

If both Bam and Herro were announced on the market you all know damn well who we’d be getting more calls about and have more interest in between the two lol, we don’t have to pretend

I was going to make a jab, but actually, serious question why do you base everything around Bam but claim to be a Heat fan first? You're sitting here like Bam is persecuted, conveniently forgetting that last offseason literally the whole entire board had Tyler Herro's bags packed for him to get Damian Lillard here.

You claim you've always been a Heat fan but I dunno, I see someone who got here in 2021 and for all I know Bam is your dude. And that's OK, I just don't get why pretend that's not the case. AirP was open about his situation and we were all cool with it and he departed amicably when his guy was gone. It's not like Heat fans aren't used to transient player fans, goes back to the days of Shaq. Even SuperCoolBeas had kind of a following.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If both Bam and Herro were announced on the market you all know damn well who we’d be getting more calls about and have more interest in between the two lol, we don’t have to pretend

I was going to make a jab, but actually, serious question why do you base everything around Bam but claim to be a Heat fan first? You're sitting here like Bam is persecuted, conveniently forgetting that last offseason literally the whole entire board had Tyler Herro's bags packed for him to get Damian Lillard here.

You claim you've always been a Heat fan but I dunno, I see someone who got here in 2021 and for all I know Bam is your dude. And that's OK, I just don't get why pretend that's not the case. AirP was open about his situation and we were all cool with it and he departed amicably when his guy was gone. It's not like Heat fans aren't used to transient player fans, goes back to the days of Shaq. Even SuperCoolBeas had kind of a following.

I just correct nonsense when I see it, probably a little too much but there’s also a little too much nonsense so it is what it is. I’m not sure how to prove to you am I Heat fan first and foremost but I also don’t care to prove it. I’ve been a fan since 03, as a kid Wades final four run made me a fan and that led to the Heat when he was drafted. I guess if I was a player fan of anyone it would’ve been Wade but if Bam is traded for Giannis this summer I’ll still be a Heat fan.