2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 2

[Daffy]

Spoiler:

My point is he may take time to develop. Do you know how many people on here promised Oladipo/Jovic/Winslow/KZ Okpala...etc were ready to destroy the league the following season?

And if you want a rags-to-riches-to rags story, look no further than Hassan Whiteside.

As I've said previously, I think Ware's ceiling is Brook Lopez/Porzingis. Even if he makes it to that level, I am ok with Miami getting 2-3 years of Durant even at 37 in exchange. I just don't see Ware being a central, cornerstone player.

I could be wrong, of course.

Imo, i see wares ceiling as Jarrett Allen with a 3 pt shot. And that's a fantastic player.

His biggest issues right now is his strength and awareness. The strength will come over time or he gets a kid in the offseason fpr that dad strength. He isn't low bbiq, but he's slow at processing the peripherals. He uses his athleticism to cover up for his misses. I think having game reps with people around him will fix alot of this. An off season with the same core will do wonders for him.

So we're more or less in agreement with where we think his ceiling is. I would trade Jarrett Allen for Durant. I would not pass on Kevin Durant to keep Jarrett Allen. I would not trade Kevin Durant for Jarrett Allen. In fact Cleveland is rumored to be shopping Allen (and Garland) for an upgrade to their roster. And that is a 60-win team. Minnesota just found out Gobert can play like **** and they can still make the WCF with Julius Randle as their 2nd best player.

The reality is unless we're talking about Jokic/Embiid/A Davis level bigs, mediocre bigs just don't move the needle. Miami and Golden St have made multiple Finals without a true center and playing 6'5 guys at PF.

IMO, Miami is a wildly better team if you swap Durant with Wiggins and Ware, and that is what it comes down to. You get Durant 1st and worry about the rest later. It would be great if Miami could find a way not to include Ware if they really think he's that talented, but he should not be a deal-breaker in a trade for Durant.

The problem giving up Ware for KD is that a windows with KD at this age is a short window. You save Ware for a larger window player if they become available.

[Hallstar]

On another note, we should look at Scottie Pippen jr. He's the kind of guard that's caught in a logjam that could probably be very productive for us at pg.

Memphis didn't have a log jam before we traded Bane. For sure don't now, spj likely a 30+ minute guy now in Memphis.

Can't see that unless they move Ja to the 2 and that's very undersized

[psman2]

On another note, we should look at Scottie Pippen jr. He's the kind of guard that's caught in a logjam that could probably be very productive for us at pg.

Memphis didn't have a log jam before we traded Bane. For sure don't now, spj likely a 30+ minute guy now in Memphis.

Can't see that unless they move Ja to the 2 and that's very undersized

Pippen can guard up and we like to run a 2 pg lineups. He average 32 minutes a game in the playoffs. He is ticketed for big minutes next season for us.

[MiamiSun]

Tyler makes front page of Fox News, SMH.

These guys should know the media looks for anything to make you look like your crazy.

[Kobewade11]

Ill tell you one thing for sure, Ty Jerome isnt clamping Bane and scoring 25 on him either.

Its funny because he did just that in the regular season lol

[Kobewade11]

[

The problem giving up Ware for KD is that a windows with KD at this age is a short window. You save Ware for a larger window player if they become available.

Right. Its not as simple as get KD and worry about everything else later when we would be right back to wearing Bam out against bigger front courts.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I’m cracking up about how clueless everyone is about Bane as a player but how sure you all are of yourself as you speak on him

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I’m sure Shams will be on plenty of shows this morning so the clips should start coming in early and we’ll see where things stand.

[DayofMourning]

Read something along the lines of PHX having a deal they liked. Dont remember it being a deal being offered.

What will Houston give up? Jalen Green and Jabari?

What will SAS give up? Sochan and Vassell?

Miami gives up Jaquez and Jovic? And the best get out of salary tax hell card?

[Hoops3355]

I just would be shocked if Ware or Jovic are being offered or JJJ for that matter. I'm irrationally firm in believing that this is all posturing and Old Pat Riley is gonna pull a fast one and get that discount.

The Suns owner isn't gonna eat a 200m tax bill. I believe that there's no other trade that they can make that gets KD someplace and they can get outta the TAX. Also assuming DBook is on board with whats going on Dudes a lifer.

If I was the Suns and they decided they wanted to do a trade with us that got me under the tax and got some win now pieces (if none of the spurs or rockets make a move). I'd do Durant for Highsmith, Wiggs, and DRob + Allen or Royce into our trade exemption, #20 + swap in 2027. That should give them enough capital to get a big or two while getting them outta that tax bill. Wiggs and HH would fit nicely there adding more defenders and shooters. They have enough assets to get a big once someone breaks loose on the cheap and get to a much more balance roster. In theory JJJr works too gonna go with the jersey voodoo of buying a his Heat Culture one.

[SA37]

Spoiler:

Imo, i see wares ceiling as Jarrett Allen with a 3 pt shot. And that's a fantastic player.

His biggest issues right now is his strength and awareness. The strength will come over time or he gets a kid in the offseason fpr that dad strength. He isn't low bbiq, but he's slow at processing the peripherals. He uses his athleticism to cover up for his misses. I think having game reps with people around him will fix alot of this. An off season with the same core will do wonders for him.

So we're more or less in agreement with where we think his ceiling is. I would trade Jarrett Allen for Durant. I would not pass on Kevin Durant to keep Jarrett Allen. I would not trade Kevin Durant for Jarrett Allen. In fact Cleveland is rumored to be shopping Allen (and Garland) for an upgrade to their roster. And that is a 60-win team. Minnesota just found out Gobert can play like **** and they can still make the WCF with Julius Randle as their 2nd best player.

The reality is unless we're talking about Jokic/Embiid/A Davis level bigs, mediocre bigs just don't move the needle. Miami and Golden St have made multiple Finals without a true center and playing 6'5 guys at PF.

IMO, Miami is a wildly better team if you swap Durant with Wiggins and Ware, and that is what it comes down to. You get Durant 1st and worry about the rest later. It would be great if Miami could find a way not to include Ware if they really think he's that talented, but he should not be a deal-breaker in a trade for Durant.

The problem giving up Ware for KD is that a windows with KD at this age is a short window. You save Ware for a larger window player if they become available.

In general, teams don't have more than a 3-4 year championship window for a variety of reasons, so I have no issue knowing Miami is looking at 2-3 years with Durant (and any combo of Westbrook, C Paul, B Lopez...etc Miami might bring back. OKC had a young core (Durant-Russ-Harden-Ibaka) and it seemed they'd compete for 10 years and we know how that went.

There is an argument that Ware could potentially expand that window if he somehow develops into the player some think he'll become. I don't see Ware becoming that kind of impact player, and the chances are higher he becomes Tyson Chandler (Remember when Chicago traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler?), Marcus Camby, or Hassan Whiteside than he becomes Wemby, AD, or Pau Gasol.

Yes, there is a gamble, but with KD-Herro-Bam, Miami can be confident it can get 2-3 vets to round out its roster -- just like it did when it was Butler-Herro-Bam -- and be a contender in the East, especially in light of Tatum's injury.

With Ware, Miami may never get be a contender because he may never become the player some people think he can be.

[Kobewade11]

Saw the below on the Suns board, I think its a realistic frame work of what an offer to PHX could look like, not player for player but close.

I think that the Heat will not make Ware available in the trade. They will prefer to lose more picks than make him available.

The most possible outcome IMO is a three team trade:

Suns: Jovic, Claxton, Duncan Robinson, #20, one unprotected pick and some swap/2nd.

Miami: KD

Nets: Wiggins + FRP.

That way we get our PF and C of the future.

We get a salary relief in Duncan Robinson who could be waived for less than $10M.

And we get enough draft capital. 1 unprotected FRP, #20 and some swap/2nd. Hopefully a bit more than that.

[DayofMourning]

I was reading a Suns fans take, and after the Bane trade, they will take nothing less than Ware, JJJ, Jovic, 3 first round picks and cap space....

[DayofMourning]

Saw the below on the Suns board, I think its a realistic frame work of what an offer to PHX could look like, not player for player but close.

I think that the Heat will not make Ware available in the trade. They will prefer to lose more picks than make him available.

The most possible outcome IMO is a three team trade:

Suns: Jovic, Claxton, Duncan Robinson, #20, one unprotected pick and some swap/2nd.

Miami: KD

Nets: Wiggins + FRP.

That way we get our PF and C of the future.

We get a salary relief in Duncan Robinson who could be waived for less than $10M.

And we get enough draft capital. 1 unprotected FRP, #20 and some swap/2nd. Hopefully a bit more than that.

Is Miami paying the pick piper? 3 first rounders coming from us?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Saw the below on the Suns board, I think its a realistic frame work of what an offer to PHX could look like, not player for player but close.

I think that the Heat will not make Ware available in the trade. They will prefer to lose more picks than make him available.

The most possible outcome IMO is a three team trade:

Suns: Jovic, Claxton, Duncan Robinson, #20, one unprotected pick and some swap/2nd.

Miami: KD

Nets: Wiggins + FRP.

That way we get our PF and C of the future.

We get a salary relief in Duncan Robinson who could be waived for less than $10M.

And we get enough draft capital. 1 unprotected FRP, #20 and some swap/2nd. Hopefully a bit more than that.

Is Miami paying the pick piper? 3 first rounders coming from us?

Surely not but we’ll see.

[Flash4thewin]

For everyone taking about the Tax bill the Sun have, remember it is considered an in the course of business transaction and thus can be deducted from any income made reducing the tax liability they have. So just for arguments sake lets say the Suns made 200 mill, and the tax bill is 200 mil, for tax purposes they made nothing and thus would have no tax liability. Then remember the owners are billionaires so it's not just the Sun they own, this can and will be applied against any other profits made by the owner. We always talk about the tax as a negative but ignore how it can be used proactively to save the owner money.

[greg4012]

Tyler makes front page of Fox News, SMH.

These guys should know the media looks for anything to make you look like your crazy.

Did Tyler have any role in making himself look crazy/dumb?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Suns can’t get into the first apron to aggregate salaries until 6/29 Micic and Martin 6/30. Any legal trade before draft will have to be at Durant’s exact figure of 54.7 or just below. They will have till 7/8 if they decide to flip Duncan and another contract like Allen or O’Neale in a combined salary dump. They can take there time finding a salary dump with 3rd team or just release Duncan. We also have to be careful eating even a few million in salary as we currently have just enough under the tax to offer Mitchell his RFA to match. We have to match Durant’s deal almost to the dollar or we must find a salary dump for HH or Kyle Anderson.

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

So we're more or less in agreement with where we think his ceiling is. I would trade Jarrett Allen for Durant. I would not pass on Kevin Durant to keep Jarrett Allen. I would not trade Kevin Durant for Jarrett Allen. In fact Cleveland is rumored to be shopping Allen (and Garland) for an upgrade to their roster. And that is a 60-win team. Minnesota just found out Gobert can play like **** and they can still make the WCF with Julius Randle as their 2nd best player.

The reality is unless we're talking about Jokic/Embiid/A Davis level bigs, mediocre bigs just don't move the needle. Miami and Golden St have made multiple Finals without a true center and playing 6'5 guys at PF.

IMO, Miami is a wildly better team if you swap Durant with Wiggins and Ware, and that is what it comes down to. You get Durant 1st and worry about the rest later. It would be great if Miami could find a way not to include Ware if they really think he's that talented, but he should not be a deal-breaker in a trade for Durant.

The problem giving up Ware for KD is that a windows with KD at this age is a short window. You save Ware for a larger window player if they become available.

In general, teams don't have more than a 3-4 year championship window for a variety of reasons, so I have no issue knowing Miami is looking at 2-3 years with Durant (and any combo of Westbrook, C Paul, B Lopez...etc Miami might bring back. OKC had a young core (Durant-Russ-Harden-Ibaka) and it seemed they'd compete for 10 years and we know how that went.

There is an argument that Ware could potentially expand that window if he somehow develops into the player some think he'll become. I don't see Ware becoming that kind of impact player, and the chances are higher he becomes Tyson Chandler (Remember when Chicago traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler?), Marcus Camby, or Hassan Whiteside than he becomes Wemby, AD, or Pau Gasol.

Yes, there is a gamble, but with KD-Herro-Bam, Miami can be confident it can get 2-3 vets to round out its roster -- just like it did when it was Butler-Herro-Bam -- and be a contender in the East, especially in light of Tatum's injury.

With Ware, Miami may never get be a contender because he may never become the player some people think he can be.

Psst—while team builds typically don’t have longer than 3-4 year windows, individual players can last providing value through multiple windows.

Now pair that consideration with the added value in cost-controlled players on rookie contracts opening up more team building avenues. And consider the reality that any KD window is more of a 1-2 year window

[fincane30]

Tyler makes front page of Fox News, SMH.

These guys should know the media looks for anything to make you look like your crazy.

Did Tyler have any role in making himself look crazy/dumb?

You have to ask yourself should a situation where he is sitting down with a streamer be taken as gospel and actually representative of what he thinks. Maybe it is. But it all seemed like theater and entertainment and done for laughs.