Let's say we want to move Beasley in 2 years

[Iputsomepantson]

NBAdraft.net handed out their grades for the draft and for the Heat the website said:

"Even if he's not a "Riley guy," you take "B-Easy," hope he doesn't become too swept up with South Beach, and watch him get his 20-10 for a year or two, then move him for another franchise talent. "

This is an interesting idea which I had not thought of before. If Beasley does indeed turn out to be a dominating force in the league, but not necessarily a piece we may want around for long, who could we get for him? Who would we want for him? What do you all think of that idea?

[MartyConlonJr]

I thought about this too.

In the 2010 FA season, so many teams will have cap space to lure Lebron, that he can probably force a sign and trade to get himself on Miami even if we don't have max space. An asset like Beasley and some 2010-2011 expirings is better than watching New Jersey sign Bron outright for Cleveland. Another reason to just collect assets and be open to longer contracts, as long as they are at value.

[Iputsomepantson]

I Another reason to just collect assets and be open to longer contracts, as long as they are at value.

Agreed. As I said before, if teams think those players are gonna be gone anyways, they are gonna trade em. I mean if D-Wade wanted to leave, he wouldn't just shock Pat Riley and leave, he would let him know months in advance that he doesn't want to stick with the team and he wants to go to a contender and then Riley would design a trade to send him to a contender.

The same can be said about Lebron. If the Nets think they will just be able to sign him outright, they are crazy. Outright signings barely happen these days. I mean name the last big name FA's who left their team outright.

The only recent good FA's I can think of who signed outright to a team with capspace were Odom, Ben Wallace, Mehmet Okur, and Boozer. And with the exception of Boozer, who left in a slimey underhanded move, those players left not because they desired to go elsewhere, but because their teams did not want to overpay. Players like Bosh and Lebron on the other hand, will get a max contract from their team regardless.

All of this talk of saving capspace can't be true, it just can't. Riley is his best through trades. I remember an offseason when the Bulls had a TON of capspace and went after Eddie Jones hard, but Riley managed to talk Eddie into playing with the Heat and the Heat signed and traded for him along with Anthony Mason and Ricky Davis and signed Brian Grant who saw an instant chance for a championship. That wouldn't of been possible had the Heat had no pieces to trade and neither will acquiring a player like Bosh if that's who Riley really wants.

[BFO]

I don't want to wait until 2010/2011 to be relevant again. We aren't the bloody Clippers.

Sure, have a plan in place just in case but if Beasley is a "monster" by this time why would we want to trade him? I don't see Bosh ever leading a team to a championship. Bron, sure; Bosh, no.

Wade and Bron also won't be enough to get it done; we still need an inside guy.

[Iputsomepantson]

I agree that we shouldn't wait till 2010 to be relevant if that's what you think i'm suggesting. I'm just saying are there any players we would trade Beasley for if he does turn out to be what many people think he will....

[HeatSince88]

The only recent good FA's I can think of who signed outright to a team with capspace were Odom, Ben Wallace, Mehmet Okur, and Boozer

- Steve Nash to PHO
- Gilbert Arenas to WAS
- Peja Stojakovic to NO

Also, you're leaving out guys who agreed to sign with a new team with cap space, then after it was obvious they were signing elsewhere, their current team agreed to sign-and-trade to get a pick or whatever ...

- Tracy McGrady to ORL
- Grant Hill to ORL
- Rashard Lewis to ORL
- Joe Johnson to ATL

And if you go back a little bit ...

- Shaquille O'Neal to LA
- Vlade Divac (very good at time) to SAC
- Juwan Howard (when he was a 20/10 stud) to MIA
- and the near miss ... Tim Duncan to ORL
- Maybe some others I can't recall exaclty (Pippen, Drexler, Barkley late in careers? Not sure)

Lots of MVPs, all-star appearances, and NBA titles on this list.

I agree with your broader point though ... planning around 2010 and *assuming* we'll sign someone is risky. We should be trying to make a splash every minute of every day, not just sit on our hands and wait a couple years.

[CaliHeat]

In 2 years Beasley will have proved on the court what he is all about and I would be suprised if the Heat traded him.

Why would you want to trade Beasley for a guy like Bosh anyway, cause I truely doubt we get Lebron?
People are overrating Chris Bosh, thats all I can say. Until Bosh shows me something other than being a skinny 6-10 perimeter player, than I wouldn't even think of trading Beasley for him. Just give it time and let Beasley prove himself on the court and you will think the same way.

[GameTime_3]

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... 8&n8pe6c=1

Here is Beasleys 4th video. Hours leading upto the draft.

[Iputsomepantson]

- Steve Nash to PHO
- Gilbert Arenas to WAS
- Peja Stojakovic to NO

Also, you're leaving out guys who agreed to sign with a new team with cap space, then after it was obvious they were signing elsewhere, their current team agreed to sign-and-trade to get a pick or whatever ...

- Tracy McGrady to ORL
- Grant Hill to ORL
- Rashard Lewis to ORL
- Joe Johnson to ATL

You forgot to include Chauncy Billups With all this time spent trying to disprove me, you should have been arguing my point:


Those players left not because they desired to go elsewhere, but because their teams did not want to overpay.

Now true, I did not include Arenas and Nash, but my point remains the same. The Warriors did not want to sign Arenas for as much money as he was going to command and neither did the Mavs. This won't be the case with players like Lebron or Bosh.

So quit the petty argument side and answer me this: How many RECENT GOOD players left their team in outright in FA for reasons other than money? The only one I can think of is T-mac and even that wasn't very recent.

Lots of MVPs, all-star appearances, and NBA titles on this list.

And 0 titles on the recent and somewhat recent list, even your S&T list.

The all-star talent that Riley wants to acquire to win a championship will not come via outright signing. The last player signed to a team that won a championship with that player as the centerpiece was Shaq and that was over 10 years ago.

Just look at how the RECENT championships were won (with the exception of the Spurs). A team traded quality talent for a star or even superstar talent. KG and Allen acquired via trade. Shaq acquired via trade. Rasheed Wallace acquired via trade.

It's next to impossible in today's NBA to acquire a superstar talent via FA if a team is willing to pay the money the player wants. Will the Raptors and Cavs be willing to give Bosh and Lebron the money they want? Of course. Which is why the Heat need to start acquiring talent now, forget about those players and if a star becomes available on the trade market, move the acquired talent for that player.

[HeatSince88]

You forgot to include Chauncy Billups With all this time spent trying to disprove me ...

Billups was an MLE signing. Your criteria was: "good FA's ... who signed outright to a team with capspace". Detroit did not have cap space. Thus Billups was excluded.

So enough with the eyeroll. You excluded a TON of guys from your list, and the one you thought I excluded didn't even fit your stated criteria.

And I wasn't trying to "disprove" anything BTW. I actually agreed with you if you read my whole post. I just saw someone say there's only been Odom, Boozer, and a couple other dudes leave their team via free agency, and that obviously stood to be corrected.

The Warriors did not want to sign Arenas for as much money as he was going to command

Actually, the Warriors wanted to spend whatever they could to keep him. But due to NBA cap rules, the highest offer the Warrriors could match was the league's average salary (i.e. the MLE) since they only had his early Bird rights. So that statement is false. The Warriors were willing to pay him whatever he wanted, but couldn't under cap rules.

So quit the petty argument side and answer me this: How many RECENT GOOD players left their team in outright in FA for reasons other than money? The only one I can think of is T-mac and even that wasn't very recent.

Wow - such unwarranted hostility. Petty argument? I agree with your point, tough guy. Re-read my post.

All I did was correct your painfully wrong statement that the "only recent good FA's I can think of who signed outright to a team with capspace were Odom, Ben Wallace, Mehmet Okur, and Boozer."

You left out a TON of OBVIOUS players. I was just trying to inject an honest list into the discussion, and now you're all offended. Maybe you should take your pants off again and relax a bit?

In terms of guys who left despite having the same offer from their current team, ifi it's really that important to you that I answer, I'll play along: how bout McGrady, Shaq, Grant Hill (superstar at the time) were some pretty big gets. Duncan was a near-miss with the Magic, as was Ray Allen with the Cavs.

And since I know you're going to ask this, those guys I just listed account have won 8 of the last 9 NBA championships (with the other having Ben Wallace as a key player, who was also left via free agency twice). And all are surefire Hall of Famers, except Hill now because of the injury, but at the time he was a Top 5 player.

So obviously, you can indeed get franchise talent and impact via free agency, it's just rare. But I agree with you that it's silly for us to plan our entire franchise around this once-in-a-blue-moon event when a Shaq leaves, or a McGrady, or a Hill, or a LeBron, or a Bosh. There's such a small chance that'll happen for us, it's not worth throwing away the next 2 years of Wade's career on trash, shortterm players just to have that tiny chance.

The last player signed to a team that won a championship with that player as the centerpiece was Shaq and that was over 10 years ago.

I'm pretty sure Shaq has won a title since 1998. In fact, he's won 4 since then and is looking for a 5th in Phoenix. So the idea at the time to clear cap space for the all-world talent Shaq turned out to be brilliant considering his 4 rings since. But like you, I just think those events happen so rarely it's not worth waiting around years for it to take place, when we can just improve NOW via trades and signings.

Just look at how the RECENT championships were won (with the exception of the Spurs). A team traded quality talent for a star or even superstar talent. KG and Allen acquired via trade. Shaq acquired via trade. Rasheed Wallace acquired via trade.

I agree. I like trades. Wish we could do some.

It's next to impossible in today's NBA to acquire a superstar talent via FA if a team is willing to pay the money the player wants. Will the Raptors and Cavs be willing to give Bosh and Lebron the money they want? Of course. Which is why the Heat need to start acquiring talent now, forget about those players and if a star becomes available on the trade market, move the acquired talent for that player.

Agreed. Again, I do not like the plan of sitting on our hands for years waiting for 2010. I'm with you 100% on that.

I would point out though that "next to impossible" doesn't mean impossible. I think Brooklyn and NY have a real shot at Lebron, even if it's like 20%. With our shot being more like 5%, I say let's build a champion around Wade ASAP rather than praying against 20:1 odds a couple years from now.

[Iputsomepantson]

The last player signed to a team that won a championship with that player as the centerpiece was Shaq and that was over 10 years ago.

I'm pretty sure Shaq has won a title since 1998.

Normally I don't like to insult people, but c'mon man that was really dumb for you to assume I didn't know that. The signing occurred over 10 years ago you nitwit.

[HeatSince88]

Normally I don't like to insult people, but c'mon man that was really dumb for you to assume I didn't know that. The signing occurred over 10 years ago you nitwit.

Ouch, soooo sensitive.

Point is, you keep getting stuff terribly wrong, or misrepresenting things ...

- that Boozer, Odom, Wallace, Okur were the only good FAs to sign for a team with cap space (WRONG!)
- that Billups is an obvious example of a good FA who left for a team with cap space (WRONG!)
- that the Warriors "didn't want to" give Arenas a max contract when he left in 2003 (WRONG!)
- that no significant free agent signed outright has won titles (WRONG!)

Yet I'm the nitwit for stating that Shaq has won 4 titles since leaving Orlando. LOL, you're a sensitive piece of work buddy.

You can't just say "Oops, I forgot about those guys" or "Oops, Billups was indeed an MLE signing for a team over the cap" or "Oops, I got that wrong about Arenas". Gotta attack the messenger and call him names, even though he agrees 100% with your conclusion!