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PG:Gratz Mavs

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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#381 » by Heat3 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:01 pm

sweet daddy wrote:Dropped in to see how Heat fans were coping. It reminds me of how we felt back in '06, only you've probably been way more calm so far than we were. It took us a long-ass time to get over it.

Not here to troll. Hang in there.


I'm disappointed, but not too down. Feels more like an opportunity wasted. I fully expect to be back next year so that helps. I probably felt worse when the Bulls swept us in 2007 since we had a narrow window. The worse part is having to wait 4 months for the season to start again (assuming no lockout)! I want to see more Heat games!
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#382 » by WD » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:32 pm

Heat3 wrote:The average price to go to every home game (including playoffs) is $10,153. For every playoff game $5,315 :o

I don't expect these numbers to go down in the coming years either :( It's not practical to go often to these things. If some activity takes me a lot less time to spend money then it does to earn it, then I'm probably skipping it lol. A lot of people down here spend way beyond their means. Too big house, too fancy car, tickets that you can't afford. I love my Heat but I'm not going to the poor house for them.

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http://blog.tiqiq.com/2011/05/the-road- ... -overview/

The Mavs tickets were actually higher in the finals than ours but all the other rounds and regular season we had the beat by a good margin.

That's why I had to give up me season tickets when I moved, no family member would pay me 1/2 for them, so it's LP every year. I will drive down for 1 or 2 games a year, but that's it. I am priced out, want a truck, never owned a truck, can't afford a truck.
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#383 » by WD » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:34 pm

Heat3 wrote:
sweet daddy wrote:Dropped in to see how Heat fans were coping. It reminds me of how we felt back in '06, only you've probably been way more calm so far than we were. It took us a long-ass time to get over it.

Not here to troll. Hang in there.


I'm disappointed, but not too down. Feels more like an opportunity wasted. I fully expect to be back next year so that helps. I probably felt worse when the Bulls swept us in 2007 since we had a narrow window. The worse part is having to wait 4 months for the season to start again (assuming no lockout)! I want to see more Heat games!

Play GM for a day, what 2 moves/adjustments would you make?
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#384 » by HeatRing2012 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:22 am

do we really thought the Heat would win in their first try with a completly new roster without playing a single game with each other?

imho I choiced my name wisely - the Heat will be better in 2012, maybe tweak the roster here and there. but thats not necessary if you ask me.
its still a team game - and you only grow with time in that matter
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#385 » by Heat3 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:30 am

WD wrote:
Heat3 wrote:
sweet daddy wrote:Dropped in to see how Heat fans were coping. It reminds me of how we felt back in '06, only you've probably been way more calm so far than we were. It took us a long-ass time to get over it.

Not here to troll. Hang in there.


I'm disappointed, but not too down. Feels more like an opportunity wasted. I fully expect to be back next year so that helps. I probably felt worse when the Bulls swept us in 2007 since we had a narrow window. The worse part is having to wait 4 months for the season to start again (assuming no lockout)! I want to see more Heat games!

Play GM for a day, what 2 moves/adjustments would you make?


I like the idea of bringing in Dalembert. Also just heard something interesting on Sedano, Baron Davis might get bought out from Cleveland. Imagine him running the point for us?

Baron Davis/Mario Chalmers/rookie
Dwyane Wade/Mike Miller/scrub
Lebron James/James Jones/scrub
Chris Bosh/Udonis Haslem/scrub
Samuel Dalembert/Joel Anthony/Dexter Pittman

Dream scenario would be prying Dwight Howard from Orlando :evil:
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#386 » by mopper8 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:35 pm

I've been digesting the loss for days; obviously game 6 and the series didn't go how I expected. Didn't help that I was crazy sick Sunday/Monday and slightly so Tuesday.

I've finally come to peace with it, though I think it was probably the hardest of any playoff loss to swallow for me, ever. Losing to the Knicks on Allan Houston's last-second, high-bouncing bank shot hurt, because it was so dramatic, and last second, and the Knicks. Losing to the Celts last year was just demoralizing. Losing to the Pistons in 04-05 when I'm pretty sure we win a title with a healthy Wade was frustrating.

But we lost games 2 and 4 by a combined 5 points. Which means if we change basically any of the stupid/bad things we did in those games, we win at least 1, if not both. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Spo: It really took that long to figure out Bibby was useless? :-? Forget about offensive schemes, all other qualms about rotations, gameplans, whatever...if we scale back Bibby's minutes before the Finals we probably win at least one of those 2 games.
Also, a friend of mine made the point that at some point, Spo probably should've said something inflammatory. Trash the refs. Call Jason Terry a clown for making a big deal about premature celebrations when he has a tattoo of the Larry O'Brien on his arm. Mock the idea of wife-beating Jason Kidd being a "hero" and the Heat being "villains." Anything to make the news about HIM and not about Lebron, who was just getting hit relentlessly. I hadn't thought of that before, buy my buddy is right I think. It would've helped. Spo can take the Heat and take the fine if it helps Lebron get his head right.
And lastly, could Spo have done more to get Lebron on track? We ran plays to get him the ball near the rim, but obviously there was something mental going on there and running plays isn't enough.

Lebron: I mean, what is there to say that hasn't been said? The guy checked out. And not just offensively, he fell apart on defense too. WTF man? I'd feel better about it I think if I understood it. Wade's bad series vs Chicago makes sense; his legs just abandoned him from chasing Ray Allen, but he was always engaged and active vs the Bulls, just had trouble finishing. Lebron just seemed out of it.

Wade/FTs: Miami lost game 2 by 2 points and shot 16-24 from the stripe. They lost game 4 by 3 points while going 17-24 from the stripe. Even if the Heat changed absolutely nothing else, Bibby starts and plays his minutes, Lebron is passive, we play the same schemes and have the same gameplans, etc., and simply hit their FTs, Miami very easily could've swept the Mavs. Lebron was 4-8 in those games, Mario Chalmers 5-8. Based on their season averages you expect those guys to get 13 out of 16, not 9. Those 4 points would've been enough to win at least one of those games.
As great as he was, though, and it breaks my heart to say it, Wade was the biggest culprit here. He shot a putrid 14-21, 66%, in those games. Overall 69% for the series. On the one hand, Miami isn't in position to win those games without his stellar play, but on the other hand, if had just hit his effing free throws they win a title.

Sloppy Play/Haslem: With the Heat holding a 2-point lead with a minute remaining in game 2, Haslem pursued a ball out-of-bounds that had been knocked out by Jason Terry. If he lets it go, the Heat have a chance to run down the clock and there's a very good chance they win the game, bad FT shooting and all. Instead, he chases it, tosses it back inbounds, and Dallas gains possession and scores a fastbreak layup to tie it going the other way.
The Heat made a number of sloppy plays like that. Haslem was actually late a number of times on rotations, obviously still feeling the rust from missing an entire season, and he was one of the culprits. But also, Wade was seemingly king of dribbling it off his foot in the last 5 minutes of each game. I don't understand it. But Miami had a number of head-scratching plays like that. In a series that was ultimately decided by a handful of possessions, those add up.

Bosh: Bosh had some great games, and some bad games. 4-16 in game 2, he alone could've won that game by shooting his season average.

At the end of the day, its hard for me to pin this loss on any one individual. There are the easy targets - Lebron, Spo, Bibby -, but guys like Bosh, Haslem, and Wade were just as complicit in all this. Not to mention Joel was unplayable at times. Ultimately, there is so much blame to go around because when a possession here or there could've changed the outcome of the series, everyone has their blemishes magnified. Lebron goes 2-10 from 3 in games 2&4...if that's 4-10 we sweep. Everything could've been a difference maker.

edit: even Riley is largely getting away unscathed here, and maybe that's not right. If he doesn't cut Arroyo in favor of Bibby, do we win a title? What about Dampier? Couldn't we have used another shooter (with James Jones' toe apparently worse than let on) instead of him? Should we have maybe avoided going all-geriatric with our bench? I think you could argue that Riley was just as a complicit as everyone else in this. When Spo looked to his bench for answers, the best options were often rusty Haslem and thumbless Miller. That says something about the bench depth, and its not good.

The FTs are still what get me the worst though. Because more than anything else that's within the players' control.

Considering how close the series was (Dallas differential was +2.33/game for the series, and was a measly +.8 after 5 games), it's hard for me to construct any sort of narrative that revolves around the idea of a Dallas success or a Miami failure. Ultimately, we played them about as even as two teams can play for 5 games, and they made a couple more plays than we did, or hit a few more FTs, and that was the difference. And then Lebron just seemed to check out in game 6, and the rest of the team followed suit soon after.
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#387 » by jardancool » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:53 am

what i have figured from the disappointment of most is not the fact that heats lost but how they lost. heats could have won game 2 and believe me that would have been it for the mavericks but some how they were lead back into the game. it appeared at times through out this series that the games were some how controlled or fixed.

but hey the heats did well to even reach the finals because many of the espn analyst weren't even looking for them to make the finals after the regular season. to be fair this is there first run in the finals together and there will be many more. hey heats dealt with injuries and media pressure and still made it to the finals wining two games that is a pretty dawn good season to me

i dont thing we should jump to fire the coach i mean how many coaches u know reach to the finals that were canned are u kidding me he has another season to prove himself. we have to look at our center and as many others have said a good point guard the two position that many other teams have over the heats. cant wait to see what they do next season
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#388 » by SaintofKillers » Thu Jul 7, 2011 3:03 pm

Sorry for the bump, didn't notice it's been weeks since the last post.

Septhaka wrote:I know its lame to think of it this way but the Mavs had a $90m payroll compared to Miami's $66m payroll. Think what this series would have been like if the Heat could sign $24m worth of players? That's an All Star point guard and center.


It's $85-million, actually.

And that's counting Butler, Beaubois, Brewer and Jones — none of whom played in the series. You can subtract Haywood as well, who contributed little to the series because of an injury.

So in effect, the players Dallas used against Miami had an equal, if not lower, payroll total.
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#389 » by DefenseWins » Thu Jul 7, 2011 4:56 pm

It's silly to compare.

Dallas had injured players including Haywood and Butler, sure. But they had the DEPTH to compensate.

Cardinal played a bigger role than I thought lol. He really is a custodian.

Also personnel.

Jason Kidd and Bibby don't even compare, and Tyson Chandler was the best Center on the floor. Dirk the best PF. Heat only had advantage at the SG spot, LeBron didn't really show up and Marion would outplay him or match him (sad).

In the end Mavs had the edge no matter what.
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#390 » by LikeABosh » Thu Jul 7, 2011 5:08 pm

DefenseWins wrote:It's silly to compare.

Dallas had injured players including Haywood and Butler, sure. But they had the DEPTH to compensate.

Cardinal played a bigger role than I thought lol. He really is a custodian.

Also personnel.

Jason Kidd and Bibby don't even compare, and Tyson Chandler was the only Center on the floor. Dirk the best PF. Heat only had advantage at the SG spot, LeBron didn't really show up and Marion would outplay him or match him (sad).

In the end Mavs had the edge no matter what.


Fixed for accuracy.
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#391 » by HeatSince88 » Thu Jul 7, 2011 7:19 pm

SaintofKillers wrote:Sorry for the bump, didn't notice it's been weeks since the last post.

Septhaka wrote:I know its lame to think of it this way but the Mavs had a $90m payroll compared to Miami's $66m payroll. Think what this series would have been like if the Heat could sign $24m worth of players? That's an All Star point guard and center.


It's $85-million, actually.

And that's counting Butler, Beaubois, Brewer and Jones — none of whom played in the series. You can subtract Haywood as well, who contributed little to the series because of an injury.

So in effect, the players Dallas used against Miami had an equal, if not lower, payroll total.


Allow me to correct your fuzzy math.

Overall Payroll 2010-11
Mavs: $102.9M (includes pmts due for exceeding NBA salary luxury tax ceiling)
Heat: $66.7M

Payroll Not Including Luxury Tax Pmts
Mavs: $86.6M
Heat: $66.7M

Payroll of Those Who Played 20+ Minutes in Finals:
Mavs: $70.4M
Heat: $58.2M
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#392 » by SaintofKillers » Thu Jul 7, 2011 11:57 pm

My conclusion is off so apologies for that (although I still wouldn't count Haywood even if he played more than 20 minutes) but I think I've established one of the few points I was trying to make which is to debunk the 90+ payroll (excluding luxury tax) that's being rolled out in the media.

DefenseWins wrote:Dallas had injured players including Haywood and Butler, sure. But they had the DEPTH to compensate.


True, but my argument doesn't really have anything to do with the exact numbers but rather the impression that our championship was the result of having a "huge" payroll — as if we weren't capped out the years before.
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Re: PG:Gratz Mavs 

Post#393 » by Tim_Hardawayy » Fri Jul 8, 2011 1:14 pm

The idea that Dallas only won because of a bloated payroll is silly.

Equally silly is the idea that Dallas was the plucky underdogs, beating the big bad Heat who were the Yankees of basketball. It's as nauseating as Red Sox fans trying to act like they were the good guys and underdogs a few years back, because their payroll was only 180 million to the Yankees 200 million, and they don't normally get to win.

Or for that matter, Cubs fans, whose team also has a giant payroll.

Just because your team traditionally sucks doesn't make you a likable underdog, especially not if your owner is so rich you can just continue to flush money down a toilet at all your problems.

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