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Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities

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Are you satisfied with Spoelstra's coaching?

Yes.
17
36%
No.
30
64%
 
Total votes: 47

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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#141 » by RexBoyWonder » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:11 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:^Exactly.

Quality bigs don't get cut, just like quality bigs don't sit by the phone in free agency. They sometimes get traded, but not a for a sack full of crap like we have to offer.

Also, Spo is unlikely to be on the hot seat for 2 reasons:

1. WTF is going to replace him? Sloan, the guy who repeatedly failed in the Finals? Phil, the man who can only coach home games and doesn't get along with Pat?

2. You whingers are gonna feel incredibly stupid when he goes somewhere else and makes it an annual tradition to come here and Thibodau our asses with his defense. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if Pat dropped Spo, the Lakers would scoop him up in a second. You want Dwight anchoring a Spo defense against us? Ha! PEACE.


This just made me Lol real hard for some reason...is that you, Spo's mum? :lol:
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#142 » by Pimpwerx » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:47 pm

How many coaches out there have Spo's pedigree, even in his 5 years of coaching? I suppose the fact that some still think there are quality bigs sitting at home explains why some think there are quality coaches sitting at home. However, there's a wide gulf between Phil's situation and Sloan's. Like I said before, how dumb are some of you gonna feel making these same complaints in 10 years? You think this "assistant coach" fluked into the most important coaching job in the league? Riley has more bball knowledge than this thread combined, and is as good an Xs and Os guy as you will find. Why didn't he go after the more-hyped and equally-willing Doc? Why did he extend Spo? Because he can't see that he's not up to the task?

You see how irrational that sounds? Oh, but I'm sure the guy with no losing seasons after taking over from one of the worst seasons in franchise history, is gonna have trouble finding work. In a league where failed washouts like PJ Carlisimo and VDN both helm big dollar rosters. Yeah...I'm certainly being unreasonable. There's not a rolleyes emoticon big enough to express my sentiments. PEACE.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#143 » by GreenHat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:25 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:^Exactly.

Quality bigs don't get cut, just like quality bigs don't sit by the phone in free agency. They sometimes get traded, but not a for a sack full of crap like we have to offer.

Also, Spo is unlikely to be on the hot seat for 2 reasons:

1. WTF is going to replace him? Sloan, the guy who repeatedly failed in the Finals? Phil, the man who can only coach home games and doesn't get along with Pat?

2. You whingers are gonna feel incredibly stupid when he goes somewhere else and makes it an annual tradition to come here and Thibodau our asses with his defense. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if Pat dropped Spo, the Lakers would scoop him up in a second. You want Dwight anchoring a Spo defense against us? Ha! PEACE.


I agree that Spo isn't going to get fired.

Your first reason of "who else?" isn't really a ringing endorsement of Spo. Plus Sloan lost to Jordan/Pippen/Rodman, Spo lost to Dirk/Chandler/Terry. And yeah Phil is insanely more qualified it would just be a hit to Pat's ego and Mickey's pocketbook. Spo is a friend of Riley's and cheap. Again not a ringing endorsement.

Your second point is extremely speculative. The Lakers are not going to pay a third coach just to get Spo. Again if they were going to do that they would go with Phil who is insanely more qualified.

I would personally love going up against a Spo coached defense. He would give our shooters a bunch of open threes. He would go small ball against us so we could pound him inside. He also would be slow on adjustments so we could exploit that. He has an average defense with this roster, I can't imagine how bad the Lakers would be on defense trapping hard on everything with their team speed and a backcourt of Nash and Kobe.

I'll take your bet because I think Spo might eventually get pushed out if he continues to under-perform (again not now).

How much money/donuts?
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#144 » by GreenHat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:30 pm

EscapoTHB wrote:
Chalm Down Bro wrote:
EscapoTHB wrote:They try him in practice. If he was showing something he'd be playing.

Why would you put a guy in a game who you know isn't ready? Varnado is a project.

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I have news for you, Haslem isn't ready to play in games either, and still does.

If you think haslem sucks imagine how much the guys behind him suck.

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Except Spo has had guys behind players who sucked less before. Off the top of my head:

Chalmers sucked less than Bibby.
Chalmers sucked less than Arroyo.
Joel sucks less than Haslem.

The guys behind Haslem could suck just as much or more. But its a fallacy to think that they aren't as good just because they are behind him
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#145 » by imchillin » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:43 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:How many coaches out there have Spo's pedigree, even in his 5 years of coaching? I suppose the fact that some still think there are quality bigs sitting at home explains why some think there are quality coaches sitting at home. However, there's a wide gulf between Phil's situation and Sloan's. Like I said before, how dumb are some of you gonna feel making these same complaints in 10 years? You think this "assistant coach" fluked into the most important coaching job in the league? Riley has more bball knowledge than this thread combined, and is as good an Xs and Os guy as you will find. Why didn't he go after the more-hyped and equally-willing Doc? Why did he extend Spo? Because he can't see that he's not up to the task?

You see how irrational that sounds? Oh, but I'm sure the guy with no losing seasons after taking over from one of the worst seasons in franchise history, is gonna have trouble finding work. In a league where failed washouts like PJ Carlisimo and VDN both helm big dollar rosters. Yeah...I'm certainly being unreasonable. There's not a rolleyes emoticon big enough to express my sentiments. PEACE.


as much as basketball knowledge as Pat Riley and Spo (you claim) have...

the problem is...you have to adjust your system to fit the team. Our defense doesn't fit our roster because it requires much athleticism to help Bosh guard both the paint and run out on shooters. Ray Allen cant do it, neither can Mike Miller and whoever else aging vet we have. Battier is also tiring...and wade is getting lazy. Its a defensive system that burns you out

We have the athletes to play the same system that Bulls play (save for joakhim Noah). This system best suits us, but we continue to play this old headless chicken defense scheme that requires energy at all times, the type of energy that will burn you out quick. The only guy really able to play this is lebron, wade (half heartedly), battier (maybe) and Norris Cole because hes fast. ADJUST YOUR DEFENSE TO FIT YOUR ROSTER. DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER IS INSANITY.

OR AT LEAST ADJUST YOUR DEFENSE TO FIT THE TEAM YOU'RE PLAYING......

Pat Riley has been wrong before, he's no God and Spo like you believe everything is effort. Well it isn't always and we need to adjust that, its the reason we can't hide Ray Allen's bad defense, he cant play this defense and it hurts us, but we need his scoring right? Hes being overplayed especially in critical possessions and its cost us more than a few games.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#146 » by GreenHat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:49 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:How many coaches out there have Spo's pedigree, even in his 5 years of coaching? I suppose the fact that some still think there are quality bigs sitting at home explains why some think there are quality coaches sitting at home. However, there's a wide gulf between Phil's situation and Sloan's. Like I said before, how dumb are some of you gonna feel making these same complaints in 10 years? You think this "assistant coach" fluked into the most important coaching job in the league? Riley has more bball knowledge than this thread combined, and is as good an Xs and Os guy as you will find. Why didn't he go after the more-hyped and equally-willing Doc? Why did he extend Spo? Because he can't see that he's not up to the task?

You see how irrational that sounds? Oh, but I'm sure the guy with no losing seasons after taking over from one of the worst seasons in franchise history, is gonna have trouble finding work. In a league where failed washouts like PJ Carlisimo and VDN both helm big dollar rosters. Yeah...I'm certainly being unreasonable. There's not a rolleyes emoticon big enough to express my sentiments. PEACE.


No one is saying quality, just hopefully an improvement over what we have.

In ten years I don't think any of us will seem as dumb as your Indiana posts. None of us are going to the extreme that you did. You were harder on Spo than we are. Also I think its far more likely that you calling him a top 3 coach will seem dumb in ten years.

I don't think Spo fluked into the coaching position, but the circumstances were kind of fluky and he was in the right place at the right time. It wasn't entirely merit based.

One Riley always hires from within because he wants an extension of him and his system. That doesn't make Spo the best coach in the league according to Riley. That makes Spo the best coach on Riley's staff at the time (just like SVG). I don't disagree with that. But again if he wasn't already on Riley's staff he would not have been hired and especially not in 2010.

Second Spo came cheap. Arison knew he was going to have to open the wallet to keep this team together and he assumed with this much talent anyone could win so why not keep the cheap guy? And again if you look at the extension you can see how much Riley/Arison and even Spo's agent value Spo. They weren't worried about Spo getting a huge deal from another team and leaving. Remember Arison is the guy who gave Riley a percentage of the team to get him.

Third I also think Riley assumed that almost any decent coach could dominate with that core. I don't blame him for thinking that.

Fourth Riley can be wrong. He though Juwan Howard was up to the 100 million task. He thought Eddie Jones was worth the max. He thought Brian Grant was worth the max. He thought Antoine Walker was worth his big deal. He thought Miller was worth 34 million. He's been right a lot but he's also been wrong on occasions so let not treat his opinion as infallible.

Fifth Riley and Spo are friends so its not entirely unbiased.

Sixth Riley doesn't like some of the other top coaches.

Seventh it adds to Riley's legacy if the team wins with Spo as the coach. If the team wins with someone like Jackson at the helm it hurts Riley's legacy (compared to PJ) rather than help it.

You keep bringing up the turnaround even though its been pointed out to you the differences other than just Spo.

And its not about Spo not being able to find work. No team with a roster as good as this would hire him if he under-performs with a roster this good.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#147 » by EscapoTHB » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:43 am

What coaches are definitively better than spo? Pop. Maybe Karl. That's it.

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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#148 » by Pimpwerx » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:41 pm

EscapoTHB wrote:What coaches are definitively better than spo? Pop. Maybe Karl. That's it.

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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#149 » by RexBoyWonder » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:
EscapoTHB wrote:What coaches are definitively better than spo? Pop. Maybe Karl. That's it.

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:roll: :nonono:
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#150 » by Mutnt » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:10 pm

I'm starting to get the impression Pimpwerx is actually Spo defending himself with his secret account that he visits during bus/plane trips... I don't have any other actual explanation.

I've already answered the question which coaches would I rather have instead of Spo but since I'm here, I'll gladly do it again, so here:

1.Pop
2.PJ
3.Sloan
4.Thibs
5.Doc
6.Woodson
7.Hollins
8.Karl
9.Vogel
10.Adelman
11.Carlisle

These are the coaches I believe would do a way better to slightly better job than Spo. Then there are at least a handful of them who would do pretty much the same and some of them who would do worse.
Mind you, I don't like judging coaches by saying ''x is a better coach than y'' because I believe coaches are too much dependent on the players they are given. As I've said in the past, you could see a lot of people (generally Bulls & Clippers fans) saying Del Negro was a terrible coach up until this season when the Clippers blossomed to a top 5 team in the league. Were are those people who called for his head now? Nowhere to be found. Did he magically learned how to coach a team or did his team just got a really really good influx of talent + chemistry build? Same could be said for Spo, if he'd coached the Pistons would he do a better job than Frank? Who knows... What I do know is that Frank would definitely have a better record if he was coaching the Heat. Does that make him a good coach?

You see where I'm heading with this? If I'm looking at the level of play from each NBA team, the first team which I see and say ''Yeah, they have what it takes to play better and they should play better'' is probably the LA Lakers and the Celtics. After that I'd say the Wolves and Sixers (but both had major injury issues, especially the Wolves, so it's somewhat understandable they're underachieving... Same can be said for the Lake Show obviously). And then I see Miami, who's have no injury problems unlike other teams. What does that tell you?
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#151 » by El Alonzo scowl » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:16 pm

I will give Spo props for having the guts to do what he did in Utah and giving the team a nice kick in the ass. The results were evident last night with how harder they played the Warriors.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#152 » by Heat_Fan_87 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:33 pm

Mutnt wrote:I'm starting to get the impression Pimpwerx is actually Spo defending himself with his secret account that he visits during bus/plane trips... I don't have any other actual explanation.

I've already answered the question which coaches would I rather have instead of Spo but since I'm here, I'll gladly do it again, so here:

1.Pop
2.PJ
3.Sloan
4.Thibs
5.Doc
6.Woodson
7.Hollins
8.Karl
9.Vogel
10.Adelman
11.Carlisle

These are the coaches I believe would do a way better to slightly better job than Spo. Then there are at least a handful of them who would do pretty much the same and some of them who would do worse.
Mind you, I don't like judging coaches by saying ''x is a better coach than y'' because I believe coaches are too much dependent on the players they are given. As I've said in the past, you could see a lot of people (generally Bulls & Clippers fans) saying Del Negro was a terrible coach up until this season when the Clippers blossomed to a top 5 team in the league. Were are those people who called for his head now? Nowhere to be found. Did he magically learned how to coach a team or did his team just got a really really good influx of talent + chemistry build? Same could be said for Spo, if he'd coached the Pistons would he do a better job than Frank? Who knows... What I do know is that Frank would definitely have a better record if he was coaching the Heat. Does that make him a good coach?

You see where I'm heading with this? If I'm looking at the level of play from each NBA team, the first team which I see and say ''Yeah, they have what it takes to play better and they should play better'' is probably the LA Lakers and the Celtics. After that I'd say the Wolves and Sixers (but both had major injury issues, especially the Wolves, so it's somewhat understandable they're underachieving... Same can be said for the Lake Show obviously). And then I see Miami, who's have no injury problems unlike other teams. What does that tell you?


I stopped reading after you said woodson would be a better coach than spo :lol:
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#153 » by Pimpwerx » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:23 pm

Mutnt wrote:1.Pop
2.PJ
3.Sloan
4.Thibs
5.Doc
6.Woodson
7.Hollins
8.Karl
9.Vogel
10.Adelman
11.Carlisle

3. Why is he sitting at home?
5. Really? I thought this myth was put down when the Celtics started off terribly for yet another year. Or when Spo pretty much stumped Doc once Bosh came back.
6. Wow!
7. I'm becoming less surprised with each passing number.
9. I like cheerleaders too, but I like mine to be women. We were dead to rights without Bosh, against that frontcourt and still took them down. He is a great interview though.
10. With him, we would have managed to lose in the Finals both of the last two years. Check his resume and rosters.
11. He got us with his zone once. He got everyone with it. What else has he done in his career, and with what rosters?

The ones I skipped I'm fine with. Phil doesn't want to coach road games. That's not really a great choice, though he is a better coach. Thibs I think is arguable, but I can't fault that pick. Karl, like Pop, I already rate higher than Spo.

The ones available are Phil and...that's it. We need a coach that's there more than half the games. Plus, Riley doesn't like him. So, seems like we're in pretty good shape with what we got. PEACE.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#154 » by HeatGuyInChicago » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:21 am

I thought #2 was PJ Carlisimo. LOL
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#155 » by GreenHat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:10 am

EscapoTHB wrote:What coaches are definitively better than spo? Pop. Maybe Karl. That's it.

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What coaches are definitely worse than Spo?

Now I'm not arguing Spo is a bottom 3 coach, I've said he is average to slightly above average. If you can't name at least 20 then you pretty much agree with me.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#156 » by Mutnt » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:49 am

Pimpwerx wrote:
Mutnt wrote:1.Pop
2.PJ
3.Sloan
4.Thibs
5.Doc
6.Woodson
7.Hollins
8.Karl
9.Vogel
10.Adelman
11.Carlisle

3. Why is he sitting at home?
5. Really? I thought this myth was put down when the Celtics started off terribly for yet another year. Or when Spo pretty much stumped Doc once Bosh came back.
6. Wow!
7. I'm becoming less surprised with each passing number.
9. I like cheerleaders too, but I like mine to be women. We were dead to rights without Bosh, against that frontcourt and still took them down. He is a great interview though.
10. With him, we would have managed to lose in the Finals both of the last two years. Check his resume and rosters.
11. He got us with his zone once. He got everyone with it. What else has he done in his career, and with what rosters?

The ones I skipped I'm fine with. Phil doesn't want to coach road games. That's not really a great choice, though he is a better coach. Thibs I think is arguable, but I can't fault that pick. Karl, like Pop, I already rate higher than Spo.

The ones available are Phil and...that's it. We need a coach that's there more than half the games. Plus, Riley doesn't like him. So, seems like we're in pretty good shape with what we got. PEACE.


3. Seriously need I explain this? Why is Phil Jackson sitting at home? He must be a pretty terrible coach with 11 rings, doesn't he? Again with your ''sitting at home'' excuse. Sloan is a proven quality coach and clearly, you don't seem to be aware that he's in the HOF for 4 years now. He help led the Jazz to six division championships and 10 seasons with greater than 50 wins. He was their coach from what, 1988? That's 24 years before step down. Nobody had a longer tenure with any team, ever. Spo can iron Sloan's socks everyday with his coaching knowledge and resume. Sloan has piled up 1220 wins with a 60% winning percentage... Just because of this I'm hesitant to continue with this topic because clearly your know-how isn't very big if I judge by the way you're questioning Sloan's coaching. But let's move on...

5. Yes Doc is clearly better. It wasn't put down by any knowledgeable basketball head, just by newbies apparently. He's got an old ass team that he needs no manage and some injuries. Give him a break. The Celtics don't take regular season seriously anyway because it's not worth it for them. They've got enough old and banged up core players as it is. When the playoffs start tho, they're always on their top game and they showed it in every year of their Big Three respectively. Watch how Doc's offense always flows much more smoother than Spo's who's LBJ dependant... and in the prime of this new era Celtics, they were playing one of the best (if not the best) defense in NBA history. Something that Spo can't manage with this group of high IQ and great athletic players. You're crazy if you think that Spo proved anything more than Doc.

6. Why is this such a surprise for people? Woodson is a couple of wins behind Miami as it is with his 2nd year coaching this team and a much lesser pool of superstar players. He's also got a lot of old ass veterans and players that are banged up constantly and can't play to their full potential (Amare, Shumpert...) Obviously he's done MUCH better than D'Antoni with the same group last year and this year he's doing even better. Before NY, he's coach a good and always competitive Atlanta. They never had anything more than a couple of fringe all-star players, but they were always in the 1st, 2nd round in the playoffs. Woodson would be doing fine or better with LBJ, Wade, Bosh & this role players. He's a good coach. And it looks like you're (patently) overlooking the fact that Woodson whooped Spo's ass (and so did Doc) just a couple of years ago, as I showed you already, but you're obviously neglecting it to favor your view. As long as you're quick to point out what Spo did the last 2 years with a team full of stars thats ok by you.

7. Yeah Spo would really do much better than Hollins. His sideline words of wisdom would help swing Zach in the right way and make him even a better player than he is currently. He'd certainly destroyed Pop without one of his core players... But in reality, as an eight seed, Spo wouldn't sniff a win in a playoff series, let alone uspet the team with the best record. Spo hasn't done anything with an average cast and a superstar.

9. First I find it interesting that you skipped Karl for some reason but had a nerve to knock Sloan for some instance, but oh well... Yes, but you might want to check the WE part. LeBron and Wade single-handily took the Pacers down, not Spo. Spo didn't even know who to play in that series and was trying players like Pittman for pete's sake. I think I don't have to remind you of the outcome. As Greenhat nauseously exposed you were among the ones calling for Spo's head (which you admitted of being wrong) in that series. So you were obviously acknowledging that Vogel was outcoaching Spo. Now, since LeBron and Wade propelled us to victory that should've been easier than it was, you're favoring Spo. Wow, I'm lost for words. Oh and by the way, the Pacers have a bunch of average to good players and they're playing above their expectations and if I recall still hold the leagues best defense. Spo would be fighting for the 8th seed with that team at best.

10. His resume is that he made the Finals twice with Portland (losing to a great Detroit and even better Chicago team) in his first years. Then he managed good NBA teams like Sacramento (which played great playoff ball, as you should know, in incredibly more talented West at the time), Houston who was a top 5 team in the West but could get anything going because of injuries to core players. Adelman won 800 career gamea, 13th among coaches in NBA history. He proved he could coach multiple teams in multiple situations, something that Spo might never get a chance to if he's fired here.

11. You do realize he's coaching career didn't began with Dallas 2 years ago, do you? Obviously you haven't followed a lot of Carlisle because every team he's been on that has been healthy and decently filled with talent he's preformed remarkably well. Carlisle led the Pistons to consecutive 50–32 records (.610) with Central Division titles and playoff appearances, and was named Coach of the Year in 2002. He then went on to coach the Pacers, led them to the Central Division title and NBA's best regular-season record (61–21; 74.4%). He then lost to a very good Detroit team in the East Finals. Next year he lost to them again as Detroit were the surprised champions of 2004. And I won't explain what he did with Dallas in his tenure, as I hope you at least observed the last two years well enough.

Overall, I don't mean to be offensive in any way but I'm refraining from further debating with you because you clearly lack the right perception and have your own beliefs that are based on incorrect facts and nonchalant observations with weak negligent analyses.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#157 » by GreenHat » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:09 pm

You saved me a long reply Mutnt

The only one I'm not as strongly with you on is Doc.

Just to quickly add:

Sloan: He's sitting at home because he's an older coach and teams are going with young coaches now. It has nothing to do with ability. That would be like asking why was Spo a video coordinator?

Doc: I'm not so sure on. About same level for me but I think he would command more respect from Lebron/Wade.

Woodson: I strongly agree. Its not a coincidence that Atlanta got better for six straight years under Woodson with marginal talent. He didn't have a Wade or Lebron or both. Then he completely turned around the Knicks who are only one game behind us this season despite less talent and more injuries. He also beat us twice head to head with less talent than Spo had

Hollins: He too has had the Grizzles improve every year for the last five years without being gifted a Lebron. Most Spo defenders wouldn't trade our third best player for their best yet Memphis is only one game behind us too in the much harder conference.

Vogel: If anything Pimp himself made the best case for Vogel over Spo during that series. You are correct that he is playing the result (which he often accuses others of doing), a result that wasn't all that unexpected. Again we had the better roster. We should win that series. He heaps praise onto Spo for the pre-Big 3 years but the Pacers are better than that now and their best player is Paul freaking George. Again Vogel doesn't have a prime Wade.

Adelman: He laughably plays the result again. He doesn't seem to realize there is a difference between the Bad Boy Pistons and Jordan's Bulls compared to the Mavs we lost to. Adelman has forgotten more about basketball than Spo knows.

Carlisle: He won a title with a roster inferior to the one that Spo lost with in a head to head matchup. Not sure why he is saying to look at the rosters, that furthers Carlisle's case.
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Re: Spoelstra's coaching (in)abilities 

Post#158 » by dolphinatik » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:20 am

we would be unstoppable with Phil i believe this
1. Herro 2. Bol Bol 3. Seko 4. Bruno
unless we trade up for Barrett or trade down for PJ Washington

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