Why is Bosh such a poor rebounder?

[contract]

It's more about engagement and activity levels for Bosh.
When he's engaged, he's active and is fine on the boards. But this year he's at a career low in minutes and near career lows in shot attempts so he's just not as "into" the game as he has been during his other 9 years in the league. I think once the intensity picks up in the playoffs he'll be fine on the glass

That's a very polite way of saying that he's being a bitch because he's not getting as many touches and shots as he thinks he should.

[tsherkin]

9 rebounds tonight so far... Not his fault he plays with some really great rebounders

We're dead last in the NBA in rebounds per game.

Yep, 27th and 24th in ORB and DRB, respectively. They need the rebounding, it is a clear area of weakness. No one stealing boards from Bosh. It's been nice to see him playing better D than he ever did in Toronto though.

[Pimpwerx]

Ultimately, who cares? Rebounds aren't that important to our team's success. We've won far too many of those games where we were grossly outrebounded for it to be excused as a fluke. We beat teams everywhere else. PEACE.

[WhatRickyThinks]

Ultimately, who cares? Rebounds aren't that important to our team's success. We've won far too many of those games where we were grossly outrebounded for it to be excused as a fluke. We beat teams everywhere else. PEACE.

It's a trade off Miami's made, but they lost to Chicago because of rebounding and its a clear weakness..

[mopper8]

Regression analysis (according to Haberstroh, at least) suggests that winning the turnover battle is far more important to Miami's success than winning the rebound battle. Which makes a ton of sense when you think about it.

It's nearly impossible to beat a team while being less efficient than that team on a per possession basis. That's because basically every possession ends with one team turning the ball over to the other -- either by turnoever, defensive rebound, or made basket. The only times this does't happen are at the end of quarters. So I think if you win the tip AND get the lost shot in all 4 quarters, you ultimately get max 3 more possessions than the other team (because they will get control of the ball to start at least 1 quarter).

But that doesn't mean you can't get up more shots and free throws than the other team. Even if both teams have an even 90 possessions, and 0 offensive rebounds each, if 1 team turns the ball over 5 teams, it will get 85 scoring attempts up. If the other team turns the ball over 10 times, it will only get 80 scoring attempts up. So even with even possessions, one team gets 5 more scoring attempts.

Now Miami is very good at a number of things. (1) they get excellent shots on offense. A healthy portion of our offense is Lebron/Wade layups, Bosh midrange Js (where he shoots over 50%), or catch-n-shoot 3's by our sharpshooters. (2) Force teams into bad, contested shots.

That means, the vast vast majority of the time, if Miami and another team have even a comparable number of scoring attempts (field goals & free throws), Miami is going to win, by simply converting those attempts at a higher rate. So to beat Miami, teams need to get more scoring attempts -- a lot more. Problem for them is, Miami doesn't turn the ball over that much (8th in the L in TOV%)! So its hard to do that by holding down the number of scoring attempts Miami gets up. The only alternative, then, is to pile up the extra shots by crashing the offensive glass. But here's the thing: Miami doesn't have to counter by doing a better job of protecting the offensive glass. They can counter by causing turnovers (3rd in the L in creating turnovers). So even if a team snags 10 more offensive rebounds than Miami does, each one of those extra scoring attempts is mitigated by every extra turnover Miami causes. So that 10 rebound deficit in offensive rebounding would be completely wiped out if Miami only had 10 TOs and its opponent had 20.

Further, Miami is so effective at converting turnovers into points that their points off those possessions are likely to be comparable or even better than the opponent's efficiency on its offensive rebounds.

So, take out scoring attempts off offensive rebounds or turnovers. In the vast majority of games, the total attempts for both teams will be nearly identical, and Miami will out-produce the other team in these half-court and early offense points. The other team can try to make up for this by grabbing offensive rebounds, but Miami can mitigate that by creating turnovers and converting those TOs into points.

On the season, Miami's opponents have snagged 229 more offensive rebounds than the Heat have. However, they've also turned the ball over 172 times more than Miami has, meaning they're netting 57 extra scoring attempts on the season, out of 73 games. That's less than 1 extra attempt/game, which is not nearly enough to make up for the fact that Miami is more efficient than everyone else in the halfcourt and converts those turnovers likely at a higher rate than those teams convert offensive rebounds.

That's why Miami wins while not rebounding. Numbers game.

[mopper8]

TL;DR version: Miami can and does make up for rebounding disadvantage by causing turnovers. As long as they have nearly the same total number of looks at the basket (fg + ft), they're going to win by converting at a higher rate than the other team. So they don't need rebounding parity; they simply need Oreb + TO parity in total, which gets them to total scoring attempt parity and, ultimately, a likely victory.

[GreenHat]

I don't think anyone sane is arguing that we need rebounding parity to win (I haven't read the entire thread though)

If we could rebound better than we are (while holding everything else constant) we obviously would get better.

Is that possible? I think it is. I definitely think Bosh can better even given his role

[tsherkin]

Nice post, mopper.

[truthiness]

So much idiocy in this thread ....

1. The team just went on an epic winning streak, yet fans still whine like little bitches about whatever stupid stuff they can think of

2. The team looks dominant and able to complete with the best (unlike 1-2 years ago when they looked unidimensional and utterly predictable for stretches)

3. Bosh's role isn't to stat pad his rebounding numbers. He plays away from the basket on offense and on defense he's trapping the pick and roll aggressively, which leaves him out of position for the rebound. Lebron, Haslem and Birdman can help with the rebounds. Bosh's defense is much more important than his rebounding.

4. Low minutes and post championship haze are contributing as well, most likely. But in this case it's a good sign IMO (as long as the Heat can turn it up one notch - or two - when the playoffs start). It means the Heat have been pretty dominating while not playing at 100%, so that gives me a bit more confidence for the playoffs.

5. Bosh has become sort of a whipping boy for fans - him and Chalmers. Like Boozer is for Bulls fans. Fans should be kissing his ass instead, for accepting his role without making a fuss, for not being a prima-donna, for putting the team and winning first - all while taking less money. He fits perfectly (so far) with the rest of the Heat.

[DWadeno3]

I don't think anyone sane is arguing that we need rebounding parity to win (I haven't read the entire thread though)

If we could rebound better than we are (while holding everything else constant) we obviously would get better.

Is that possible? I think it is. I definitely think Bosh can better even given his role

That's the point I question. The reason we cause so many turnovers is due to our strong hedging and trapping, which forces the other team into bad passes or at the very least takes time off the clock, forcing them into a bad shot. The problem is, the hedging/trapping forces us to rotate a lot more and harder, which then leaves us out of position to grab rebounds at times. The more energy we invest, the better does our rebounding obviously get but that's where you have to consider whether it's worth investing that much energy over the course of the season. Since we're a small team, that's great in the open court, I'd rather create more turnovers which give you a higher chance at a fastbreak than a defensive rebound.
As for Bosh, I stated before that, while he's not a great rebounder, he may simply be coasting more than others because he's a go-to-guy type of player used as a third option.

[contract]

3. Bosh's role isn't to stat pad his rebounding numbers. He plays away from the basket on offense and on defense he's trapping the pick and roll aggressively, which leaves him out of position for the rebound. Lebron, Haslem and Birdman can help with the rebounds. Bosh's defense is much more important than his rebounding.

Exactly how far away from the basket does Bosh play?

[GameTime_3]

Do we bench Bosh now? I say YES. Give him a few games off before we go down the stretch.

[GreenHat]

I don't think anyone sane is arguing that we need rebounding parity to win (I haven't read the entire thread though)

If we could rebound better than we are (while holding everything else constant) we obviously would get better.

Is that possible? I think it is. I definitely think Bosh can better even given his role

That's the point I question. The reason we cause so many turnovers is due to our strong hedging and trapping, which forces the other team into bad passes or at the very least takes time off the clock, forcing them into a bad shot. The problem is, the hedging/trapping forces us to rotate a lot more and harder, which then leaves us out of position to grab rebounds at times. The more energy we invest, the better does our rebounding obviously get but that's where you have to consider whether it's worth investing that much energy over the course of the season. Since we're a small team, that's great in the open court, I'd rather create more turnovers which give you a higher chance at a fastbreak than a defensive rebound.
As for Bosh, I stated before that, while he's not a great rebounder, he may simply be coasting more than others because he's a go-to-guy type of player used as a third option.

Oh I completely agree that there are tradeoffs.

Just like being worse on rebounding helps you get better in transition off and def.

I still think there is an optimal equilibrium among those trade offs that we can improve on. Of course I'm a "biggest gains come in your biggest weaknesses" guy. I could be wrong.

During our run we had a crazy Ortg that was being weighed down by us being a horrible offensive rebounding team. I just think its an easier area to improve marginally since we are already great in the other areas of offense.

[MartyConlonJr]

Noones explnation was "because you touch yourself"?

Son I am disappoint

[DayofMourning]

Because he's shooting 18 footers while Wade and Lebron play through the post.

Also, I thought it odd to label the Heat as the worst rebounding team in the NBA. Does it matter what your total rebounds are? Several factors can determine how well you do as a rebounding team, but total rebounds is one of the vaguest ones.

Here's a link:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/ ... Difference

Rebound differential? Now that makes sense. How do you fare versus your opponent. We still aren't world beaters, but worst in the NBA in rebounding isn't our claim to unfame anymore.

[narmerguy]

How far Bosh plays from the basket does not impact his defensive rebounding numbers. Furthermore, there's little positional explanations for why Bosh has had games with less than 4 rebounds. It's an effort issue, let's not insult the guy by suggesting that he is literally incapable of getting a rebound per quarter against certain teams.

I think Bosh doesn't always try that hard at rebounding, which is what it is. He's delivered in both playoffs so far so there's not really anything to complain about until he doesn't show up when it counts. He's shown up when it counts so far, there's no real reason to expect him to stop.