Is Norris Cole a better defender than Avery Bradley?

[HurricaneKid]

Cole is a terrible defender. He can be a pest 45 feet from the basket but when he is beaten out there it breaks down the defense for no real purpose. Miami on the season is 4.1 points per 100 possessions better when he is off the floor. Thats an enormous figure. He is also madly inconsistent. He can make great plays, but his mistakes are embarrassing mistakes that just can't happen. He makes a great steal with 10 seconds to play in OT and has the ball on the ground. But rather than secure it and hit 2 FTs to win or call a time out he turns it back over allowing Ind to take the lead. Thats NoCo in a nutshell.

Stopped reading here.

You should have kept reading. You would have learned something. Look, I love watching him pester the opposition into starting their offense late in the clock. But he gets called for a lot of bad fouls up top as he is doing so and those fouls translate into FTs. In terms of +/- defensively he was not only the worst defender on the team this year, but he was last year as well (to be fair, Eddie Curry was worse last year and Juwan Howard this year but neither of them were ever in te rotation).

I'm confident we will see how he fares against Parker in the Finals. And I want Wade on Parker as much as he can handle it because I REALLY don't want to watch Cole trying to chase him.

[HurricaneKid]

Cole is a terrible defender. He can be a pest 45 feet from the basket but when he is beaten out there it breaks down the defense for no real purpose. Miami on the season is 4.1 points per 100 possessions better when he is off the floor. Thats an enormous figure. He is also madly inconsistent. He can make great plays, but his mistakes are embarrassing mistakes that just can't happen. He makes a great steal with 10 seconds to play in OT and has the ball on the ground. But rather than secure it and hit 2 FTs to win or call a time out he turns it back over allowing Ind to take the lead. Thats NoCo in a nutshell.

He actually threw it to Wade who fumbled it because he didn't see it coming and it was a low pass. It could of just as easily been a easy dunk/win as it could of been a jump ball and who knows what else, but not a dumb move by any stretch. You are correct that Cole is still young and makes silly mistakes.

If I had to choose one of the two though, I would still go with Cole. He has more potential overall I believe.

No, he threw it to Wade but Hill got it before it ever got near Wade. And a TO there gets the ball into Ray's hands and should end the game. Its a horrific decision and one that almost lost them the game. There is no questionable call if they never get the ball. There is no offensive 5 on 4 without Cole on the floor at half court. I wanted to complain that he got fouled on the floor; but he didn't. He just threw the ball away.

I truly believe that the defensive PG overrated notion anyways. Up until the last week I thought Conley was and he couldn't even stay on the floor he was getting crushed so badly. They are generally only as good as their help. And having a front side rim defender has changed the game more than anything else over the past 10 years. I think Kidd was the last great defensive PG and that was before the advent of the strong side rim defender.

[DivineFury]

Cole is a terrible defender. He can be a pest 45 feet from the basket but when he is beaten out there it breaks down the defense for no real purpose. Miami on the season is 4.1 points per 100 possessions better when he is off the floor. Thats an enormous figure. He is also madly inconsistent. He can make great plays, but his mistakes are embarrassing mistakes that just can't happen. He makes a great steal with 10 seconds to play in OT and has the ball on the ground. But rather than secure it and hit 2 FTs to win or call a time out he turns it back over allowing Ind to take the lead. Thats NoCo in a nutshell.

He actually threw it to Wade who fumbled it because he didn't see it coming and it was a low pass. It could of just as easily been a easy dunk/win as it could of been a jump ball and who knows what else, but not a dumb move by any stretch. You are correct that Cole is still young and makes silly mistakes.

If I had to choose one of the two though, I would still go with Cole. He has more potential overall I believe.

No, he threw it to Wade but Hill got it before it ever got near Wade. And a TO there gets the ball into Ray's hands and should end the game. Its a horrific decision and one that almost lost them the game. There is no questionable call if they never get the ball. There is no offensive 5 on 4 without Cole on the floor at half court. I wanted to complain that he got fouled on the floor; but he didn't. He just threw the ball away.

I truly believe that the defensive PG overrated notion anyways. Up until the last week I thought Conley was and he couldn't even stay on the floor he was getting crushed so badly. They are generally only as good as their help. And having a front side rim defender has changed the game more than anything else over the past 10 years. I think Kidd was the last great defensive PG and that was before the advent of the strong side rim defender.

I'l watch the play again, but I'm pretty sure I saw it hit Wade's foot/hand and then go in between his legs backwards. It would make sense that it's trajectory was altered by Hill's hand. You can't really blame Cole for the play though, he was going for a sure thing. Allen missing a free throw forced OT, and there was a golden chance for a easy dunk. Also Hill could of possibly forced a jump ball since they were still grappling on the ground.

As far as I could tell Cole made a gut, instinct type play that most of the time would of been the right decision. It just so happens that pass got fumbled, went to George, and got bad foul on a 3pt shot. Anyways, this isn't about how amazing Cole is, but comparing him to another player. I don't think Avery is that amazing TBH, he gets away with a lot of body fouls where is literally dry humping PG's. Yeah, Cole actually gets called on those plays, because he doesn't have the reputation. But those +/- stats from regular seasons can be very deceiving, although I will admit he is inconsistent. But that's not a shocker or sticking point. There is a reason that with all the compliments, few if any want him to be more than a backup right now.

[smith2373]

I go Bradley over Cole on pure defense.

Cole brings more to this team then Bradley would though.

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Yeah. Avery is some kind of terrible on offense. Poor ball handler, passer, shooter and playmaker. And Felton was chewing his ass up in that first round.

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Bradley did fine shooting the ball last season but he struggled this year, but it should also be noted that he was coming off double shoulder surgery in the offseason.

Bradley's biggest strength on offense is his off-ball movement, in particular his cutting but with no Rondo and no true PG to replace him, he really wasn't allowed to play to his strengths on offense. Bradley isn't a PG and doesn't have the ball-handling skills to play PG so he was put into a bad predicament as it was known fact that he was terrible at playing point guard, which was the reason for his move to shooting guard.

As far as Felton goes...everyone on the Celtics struggled to defend Felton and in particular it was the pick and roll defense of the Celtics that struggled against Felton. Bradley also wasn't Felton's primary defender in most situations. If I'm not mistaken he spent more time guarding J.R. than he did Felton.

[jdm_dc_fan]

I go Bradley over Cole on pure defense.

Cole brings more to this team then Bradley would though.

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Yeah. Avery is some kind of terrible on offense. Poor ball handler, passer, shooter and playmaker. And Felton was chewing his ass up in that first round.

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Bradley did fine shooting the ball last season but he struggled this year, but it should also be noted that he was coming off double shoulder surgery in the offseason.

Bradley's biggest strength on offense is his off-ball movement, in particular his cutting but with no Rondo and no true PG to replace him, he really wasn't allowed to play to his strengths on offense. Bradley isn't a PG and doesn't have the ball-handling skills to play PG so he was put into a bad predicament as it was known fact that he was terrible at playing point guard, which was the reason for his move to shooting guard.

As far as Felton goes...everyone on the Celtics struggled to defend Felton and in particular it was the pick and roll defense of the Celtics that struggled against Felton. Bradley also wasn't Felton's primary defender in most situations. If I'm not mistaken he spent more time guarding J.R. than he did Felton.

This exactly. Avery will bounce back with Rondo on the court and 100% from double shoulder surgery. I recall him holding his shoulder during a knicks game. He was also shooting 50% last year before the injury. With more shot attempts and a drop in percentage that is still a really good defensive minded player.

Avery before injury

MPG: 21
FG%: 49.8
3PT%: 40.7
FT%: 79.5
PTS: 7.6
REB: 1.8
AST: 1.4
STL: .7
TO: 1.2
All defensive second team and his stats don't show his jump in improvement after the all star break where he averaged double digits in scoring.

Norris Cole's improved season

MPG: 20
FG%: 42
3PT%: 35.7
FT%: 65
PTS: 5.6
REB: 1.6
AST: 2.0
STL: .7
TO: 1.3

While Cole is only getting better so is avery. Both have 2-3 seasons in experience but so far numbers don't lie. Avery is the better all around player.

[ReturnofMVP3]

UR STUPID

[jdm_dc_fan]

UR STUPID

[dshearn]

I respect your point of view...

For me... I am cherry picking the second half of the season version of Cole...and his role on this team.

He is pretty darn good at doing what is asked of him.

My real fault of Cole is he is not good attacking the basket as he thinks he is.

Overall I am just stoked for the guy!

[jdm_dc_fan]

I respect your point of view...

For me... I am cherry picking the second half of the season version of Cole...and his role on this team.

He is pretty darn good at doing what is asked of him.

My real fault of Cole is he is not good attacking the basket as he thinks he is.

Overall I am just stoked for the guy!

His confidence is a good thing. Put him on the magic and he would average 12/3/7 for shure.

[CablexDeadpool]

Norris Cole is a great defender

http://www.nba.com/heat/news_recap/guy- ... arding-you

Of all players to have defended at least 100 possessions this season, Synergy Sports has Cole giving up the third-lowest points-per-possession in the entire league, just behind noted stalwart Tony Allen. That’s nice, but Synergy’s defensive numbers lack context. Cole could have been lucky enough to be the closest defender on 50 jump shots, simply as an example.

Here’s a better gauge of his effectiveness:

Focusing on the more highly regarded point guards Cole has defended this season, he has been on the courts against Deron Williams, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Brandon Jennings, Raymond Felton and Goran Dragic for a total of 116 minutes. In that time, those points guards have shot 4-of-32 and scored 16 points. Put another way, the best six point guards Cole has faced are scoring 4.96 points per 36 minutes and shooting 12.5 percent with Cole on the floor.

[GoodSir]

Cole is a terrible defender. He can be a pest 45 feet from the basket but when he is beaten out there it breaks down the defense for no real purpose. Miami on the season is 4.1 points per 100 possessions better when he is off the floor. Thats an enormous figure. He is also madly inconsistent. He can make great plays, but his mistakes are embarrassing mistakes that just can't happen. He makes a great steal with 10 seconds to play in OT and has the ball on the ground. But rather than secure it and hit 2 FTs to win or call a time out he turns it back over allowing Ind to take the lead. Thats NoCo in a nutshell.

Its very clear you don't watch Cole. No need to argue with you.

[GoodSir]

Bradley is clearly a better defender and is bigger! His size means he can guard big PGs like Rose which I very much doubt Cole can do(we'll see next season). Cole does have a better off-ball defensive awareness though. But as far as on-ball, no question Bradley is better.

But Cole is the better offensive player. Bradley doesn't even have a jumper I'd bet my pen on.

[jdm_dc_fan]

Bradley is clearly a better defender and is bigger! His size means he can guard big PGs like Rose which I very much doubt Cole can do(we'll see next season). Cole does have a better off-ball defensive awareness though. But as far as on-ball, no question Bradley is better.

But Cole is the better offensive player. Bradley doesn't even have a jumper I'd bet my pen on.

He shot 50% from the field before double shoulder surgery(the entire season). 40% from the 3 point.