We're not getting any free agents over the next 2-3 years anyway so what difference does it make in the end? We're now just another team...the aura is gone
I hope you are not this negative in other aspects in life Hallstar. All we need is the opportunity to sit down with all these free agents over the next couple of seasons, and someone will bite. There are also trades. We have done this before, why not even try?
One of my favorite quotes from the great Wayne Gretzky that Riley has repeated several times...
If you don't give yourself the opportunity to even try, then you already failed. Take a shot! And that is all Riley really wants. Now the preparation for those moments begin.
There's negative and realistic. A large portion of our cache was selling the idea of family and sacrifice. That has very publicly blown up in our faces this off season. Which FA is listening to that story? The tweet about relationships was the most pertinent of the offseason. We didn't come out of this as clean as we went in...added that we probably finished 5th on KDs list
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Sorry but that is negativity. What is realistic is that this is still a great winning franchise with a great owner, great culture and excellent coaching staff who develops players and improves stars. Miami is a great city where everyone in the NBA would love to play. That has not changed. Even Wade said last week that the organization, owner and even Riley were great. Just business getting in the way. It is not all doom and gloom.
Also, we finished 5th (or wherever we really ended) on KD's list because Bosh future is uncertain and an aged Wade publicized his unhappiness during the recruitment process. All Riley had to sell was Hassan, our youth and the great organization and city of Miami. Regardless of those roadblocks, Riley and the Heat were one of 6 teams given a meeting. That is what you want, the opportunity. The Warriors had a much better core to sell.
I don't think anyone is disputing Wade's meaning to Miami, the Heat franchise and the fans. Everyone recognizes his contributions. He is well loved person and fans always rallied behind him when the whole world called him old, washed 5 years ago. The city never chastised him for all the times he got hurt. Everyone stood by him always and I can guarantee you that all fans wanted him back. His legacy will forever live with this franchise, not a fan, Riley or even Arison can take that away (not that I am insinuating that is what they want to do).
But understand also that unfortunately the business side of the equation got the best of both Riley and Wade. Based on the sequence of events over the last 6 seasons, the numbers and where the franchise needs to head today did not match. I understand and respect Wade's position but I can also appreciate the tough call that Riley had to make to give the franchise a chance at a future "post-Wade". After all, he is 34, we don't have a good enough team around him to be a contender and giving him a "Kobe" deal at this point is throwing the towel and bad for business.
We all make plans in life and most often than not, those plans change because of circumstances in life. What doesn't/shouldn't change is our goals. Riley's goal has always been to "play to win championships" and he didn't think giving a 34 yo Wade a 2-3 year contract that would essentially preclude the team from having a chance at free agents was the way to get there. I guess time will tell if it was the right choice or not but like I said earlier, hindsight is 20/20. Lots of decisions some complain about today were celebrated at the time it happened. In life, you cut your loses and move on. It has nothing to do with lack of respect or loyalty but just the crude reality of the business side in sports.
Except that by waiving McRoberts and then stretching him if another team didn't pick him up, we could have gotten a lot closer to Chicago's deal. If we had wanted to keep Wade that would have been the 2nd thing we did.
1. Sign Whiteside so he doesn't bolt 2. Waive McRoberts (before talking to Durant) 3. Sign Wade for approx $23M. He never would have complained. 4. Talk to Durant (or not, because I still don't see what was the point)
Then we probably don't match TJ too, but I'm not enough of a fan of that deal to get me past letting Wade go.
It was poor GMing. I'm a fan of Pat Riley, but this was a bad off-season, and his -dddddddddddddddd notwithstanding, it's primarily his fault.
I also am no huge fan of the moves afterwards except signing Willie Reed & Derrick Williams (both of whom should have likely gotten a longer deal, so we could get their Bird Rights.) Ellington is not very good. Both he & James Johnson could be replaced by development projects and we'd be better for it in a year or two. As for Luke Babbitt...
Yes, we still have our young core, but (aside from TJ) we would have had that anyhow.
Pitchforks.
Oh, don't get me wrong, this was a bad summer just like two seasons ago. I think something could've been worked out between Riley and Wade. This wasn't about the dollars. This was a staring contest between two alpha's who were not willing to bend for the other. I also understand the disdain for McRoberts but is it really smart to stretch that $6mil contract when you have Bosh's contract that you might have to use that for (if he returns?)
As for the free agent signings, they are average. The reason why you don't see a 3rd year in those contracts is because it makes them attractive trade options. Think about it, add a $6mil contract to a $4mil contract and another $5mil contract with a future pick or a young player (TJ) and you can pull a deal like we did with Dragic. This is no accident and don't be surprised if half of those players are gone by mid-February. This is asset gathering part of the process not the end result of the roster composition.
I still think that if Chicago doesn't show interest, Wade takes the 2yr $20mil and stays. It sucks that we lost Wade but he picked going back to his hometown for a couple of millions more without having to blink to Riley.
Hmmm.... McRoberts stretched is $2M a year for 5 years, which is pocket change these days. Also, everyone knows there will be a new amnesty provision in the next CBA. The Heat will use it for Bosh.
gom wrote: Except that by waiving McRoberts and then stretching him if another team didn't pick him up, we could have gotten a lot closer to Chicago's deal. If we had wanted to keep Wade that would have been the 2nd thing we did.
1. Sign Whiteside so he doesn't bolt 2. Waive McRoberts (before talking to Durant) 3. Sign Wade for approx $23M. He never would have complained. 4. Talk to Durant (or not, because I still don't see what was the point)
Then we probably don't match TJ too, but I'm not enough of a fan of that deal to get me past letting Wade go.
It was poor GMing. I'm a fan of Pat Riley, but this was a bad off-season, and his -dddddddddddddddd notwithstanding, it's primarily his fault.
I also am no huge fan of the moves afterwards except signing Willie Reed & Derrick Williams (both of whom should have likely gotten a longer deal, so we could get their Bird Rights.) Ellington is not very good. Both he & James Johnson could be replaced by development projects and we'd be better for it in a year or two. As for Luke Babbitt...
Yes, we still have our young core, but (aside from TJ) we would have had that anyhow.
Pitchforks.
Oh, don't get me wrong, this was a bad summer just like two seasons ago. I think something could've been worked out between Riley and Wade. This wasn't about the dollars. This was a staring contest between two alpha's who were not willing to bend for the other. I also understand the disdain for McRoberts but is it really smart to stretch that $6mil contract when you have Bosh's contract that you might have to use that for (if he returns?)
As for the free agent signings, they are average. The reason why you don't see a 3rd year in those contracts is because it makes them attractive trade options. Think about it, add a $6mil contract to a $4mil contract and another $5mil contract with a future pick or a young player (TJ) and you can pull a deal like we did with Dragic. This is no accident and don't be surprised if half of those players are gone by mid-February. This is asset gathering part of the process not the end result of the roster composition.
I still think that if Chicago doesn't show interest, Wade takes the 2yr $20mil and stays. It sucks that we lost Wade but he picked going back to his hometown for a couple of millions more without having to blink to Riley.
Hmmm.... McRoberts stretched is $2M a year for 5 years, which is pocket change these days. Also, everyone knows there will be a new amnesty provision in the next CBA. The Heat will use it for Bosh.
I get that and it "might" prove to be the move we needed to make however, why play that card right now if you might needed to create room next off-season if Bosh comes back early in the season and then is out again?
Again, Bosh's uncertainty is the biggest cloud at the moment. Same scenario with a healthy Bosh, Riley does whatever he needs to do to bring Wade back, then the McRoberts stretching would be a no brainer.
heat4life wrote: Oh, don't get me wrong, this was a bad summer just like two seasons ago. I think something could've been worked out between Riley and Wade. This wasn't about the dollars. This was a staring contest between two alpha's who were not willing to bend for the other. I also understand the disdain for McRoberts but is it really smart to stretch that $6mil contract when you have Bosh's contract that you might have to use that for (if he returns?)
As for the free agent signings, they are average. The reason why you don't see a 3rd year in those contracts is because it makes them attractive trade options. Think about it, add a $6mil contract to a $4mil contract and another $5mil contract with a future pick or a young player (TJ) and you can pull a deal like we did with Dragic. This is no accident and don't be surprised if half of those players are gone by mid-February. This is asset gathering part of the process not the end result of the roster composition.
I still think that if Chicago doesn't show interest, Wade takes the 2yr $20mil and stays. It sucks that we lost Wade but he picked going back to his hometown for a couple of millions more without having to blink to Riley.
Hmmm.... McRoberts stretched is $2M a year for 5 years, which is pocket change these days. Also, everyone knows there will be a new amnesty provision in the next CBA. The Heat will use it for Bosh.
I get that and it "might" prove to be the move we needed to make however, why play that card right now if you might needed to create room next off-season if Bosh comes back early in the season and then is out again?
Again, Bosh's uncertainty is the biggest cloud at the moment. Same scenario with a healthy Bosh, Riley does whatever he needs to do to bring Wade back, then the McRoberts stretching would be a no brainer.
What if it's not that though? What if Riley just doesn't want to admit that signing McRoberts was a blunder that held the team back for 2 years and counting? That's the problem with egos. Sometimes people with big egos want to feed their own mystique and making mistakes like signing a player who had two games in two years where he meaningfully contributed is a pretty bad blunder, especially when *he* is our MLE signing for 2014-15. I'm a big apologist for Pat Riley, always expecting to see some missed stratagem, but when you couple McRoberts with signing Shannon Brown and Danny Granger, drafting Napier and then dumping a pick to get rid of him, et cetera, let's face it some of Pat's luster has rubbed off. Now he loses Wade? Any other GM would be called into the owner's office. It won't happen here though. No way.
But it's unfair to show this as an inability for both sides to negotiate. You don't think Wade looks at that $6.7M contract of McRoberts and wonder why he is making that kind of money for that production when the rest of the team has to put out like $5 whores?
Of course he does.
Nah, Riley f'ed up the team rather badly, and Wade is an irreplaceable casualty. That's how I see it anyhow.
And where are the undrafted players that should have gotten a chance? We moved like a glacier.
Hmmm.... McRoberts stretched is $2M a year for 5 years, which is pocket change these days. Also, everyone knows there will be a new amnesty provision in the next CBA. The Heat will use it for Bosh.
I get that and it "might" prove to be the move we needed to make however, why play that card right now if you might needed to create room next off-season if Bosh comes back early in the season and then is out again?
Again, Bosh's uncertainty is the biggest cloud at the moment. Same scenario with a healthy Bosh, Riley does whatever he needs to do to bring Wade back, then the McRoberts stretching would be a no brainer.
What if it's not that though? What if Riley just doesn't want to admit that signing McRoberts was a blunder that held the team back for 2 years and counting? That's the problem with egos. Sometimes people with big egos want to feed their own mystique and making mistakes like signing a player who had two games in two years where he meaningfully contributed is a pretty bad blunder, especially when *he* is our MLE signing for 2014-15. I'm a big apologist for Pat Riley, always expecting to see some missed stratagem, but when you couple McRoberts with signing Shannon Brown and Danny Granger, drafting Napier and then dumping a pick to get rid of him, et cetera, let's face it some of Pat's luster has rubbed off. Now he loses Wade? Any other GM would be called into the owner's office. It won't happen here though. No way.
But it's unfair to show this as an inability for both sides to negotiate. You don't think Wade looks at that $6.7M contract of McRoberts and wonder why he is making that kind of money for that production when the rest of the team has to put out like $5 whores?
Of course he does.
Nah, Riley f'ed up the team rather badly, and Wade is an irreplaceable casualty. That's how I see it anyhow.
And where are the undrafted players that should have gotten a chance? We moved like a glacier.
Babbitt? Smdh.
Riley has screwed up PLENTY of times. I never liked the trade for Brent Barry, the Ricky Davis/Mark Blount trade, the signing of Granger and although I was hopeful that McRoberts was more like the player he showed in Charlotte rather than the oft-hurt version we got, I have to agree that we could've done better with that MLE. The circumstances though (LeBron leading Riley on) killed our opportunities since everyone in the market (significant at least) had agreed to deals already.
Either way, Riley gets more lead-way than other GM's because he has proven that he can build winning teams over and over and over. He has made many mistakes along the way but he doesn't sit on his butt defending his moves. He cuts his loses and moves on. Allowing Wade to leave might prove to be his biggest regret yet. Again, hindsight is 20/20. All I know is that since Riley took over the Heat have won plenty, gone to 5 NBA finals, won 3 championships, played in 7 EC Finals and only missed the playoffs 4 times in 21 seasons. Unless Greg Popovich is available, who would you rather have running your team today?
BTW, I do agree with the ego's getting in the way. Riley has a HUGE ego and Wade's ego, overtime, grew equally as big. Ego is why I usually get into issues with the wifey (lol) and compromise/understanding is why we are probably still together regardless if love is always there.
heat4life wrote: I get that and it "might" prove to be the move we needed to make however, why play that card right now if you might needed to create room next off-season if Bosh comes back early in the season and then is out again?
Again, Bosh's uncertainty is the biggest cloud at the moment. Same scenario with a healthy Bosh, Riley does whatever he needs to do to bring Wade back, then the McRoberts stretching would be a no brainer.
What if it's not that though? What if Riley just doesn't want to admit that signing McRoberts was a blunder that held the team back for 2 years and counting? That's the problem with egos. Sometimes people with big egos want to feed their own mystique and making mistakes like signing a player who had two games in two years where he meaningfully contributed is a pretty bad blunder, especially when *he* is our MLE signing for 2014-15. I'm a big apologist for Pat Riley, always expecting to see some missed stratagem, but when you couple McRoberts with signing Shannon Brown and Danny Granger, drafting Napier and then dumping a pick to get rid of him, et cetera, let's face it some of Pat's luster has rubbed off. Now he loses Wade? Any other GM would be called into the owner's office. It won't happen here though. No way.
But it's unfair to show this as an inability for both sides to negotiate. You don't think Wade looks at that $6.7M contract of McRoberts and wonder why he is making that kind of money for that production when the rest of the team has to put out like $5 whores?
Of course he does.
Nah, Riley f'ed up the team rather badly, and Wade is an irreplaceable casualty. That's how I see it anyhow.
And where are the undrafted players that should have gotten a chance? We moved like a glacier.
Babbitt? Smdh.
Riley has screwed up PLENTY of times. I never liked the trade for Brent Barry, the Ricky Davis/Mark Blount trade, the signing of Granger and although I was hopeful that McRoberts was more like the player he showed in Charlotte rather than the oft-hurt version we got, I have to agree that we could've done better with that MLE. The circumstances though (LeBron leading Riley on) killed our opportunities since everyone in the market (significant at least) had agreed to deals already.
Either way, Riley gets more lead-way than other GM's because he has proven that he can build winning teams over and over and over. He has made many mistakes along the way but he doesn't sit on his butt defending his moves. He cuts his losses and moves on. Allowing Wade to leave might prove to be his biggest regret yet. Again, hindsight is 20/20. All I know is that since Riley took over the Heat have won plenty, gone to 5 NBA finals, won 3 championships, played in 7 EC Finals and only missed the playoffs 4 times in 21 seasons. Unless Greg Popovich is available, who would you rather have running your team today?
BTW, I do agree with the ego's getting in the way. Riley has a HUGE ego and Wade's ego, overtime, grew equally as big. Ego is why I usually get into issues with the wifey (lol) and compromise/understanding is why we are probably still together regardless if love is always there.
Noted the hindsight clearsight. It is and you're right, but that's the only sight we really have. With that in mind I think the Brent Barry trade was a poor value exchange (we gave up good assets - I have a feeling Austin was finishing his contract), but became worse after Barry's subsequent injury. Wasn't that an expiring deal too? It's been a long time.
Actually, it's interesting that you brought up Ricky Davis, because ego was also a factor there, right? He went after Davis because he erred trading him before for Chris Gatling. Riley doesn't like admitting to making mistakes. McRoberts was a mistake.
Some of you posters are acting like it's so horrible to live down in miami that NO good free agent would come here. Fact is,we don't have as good a reputation for being "good sports fans" (dumb stupid term) but we have LITERALLY everything else to offer here. Weather, women, culture, etc. Can't get those things in Northeast Ohio. And this notion that no free agents will come here because of the Wade departure is absolutely BOGUS. That incident really only affects us from signing people named Carmelo, Chris (p3), and LeBron. Nobody is gonna turn down a max with no salary tax because of how Wade got treated a year ago. No other franchise is selling the family model (the warriors played to KD's inferiority complex to sign him, ffs) so why is it the end of the world that Wade left? "That's not how you treat your superstar" argument is also bogus because Dan Gilbert basically called LeBron his slave and still got him a ring (his job isn't it?). Also, no other franchise that was in the KD sweepstakes would have been willing to bankrupt those chances prematurely to appease another player. Furthermore, Wade isn't the selling point to any free agent, logically most any other GM would have done the same thing with the whiteside-wade-KD scenario given the chance. Miami will be just fine in free agency. Plenty of appeal here.
gom wrote: What if it's not that though? What if Riley just doesn't want to admit that signing McRoberts was a blunder that held the team back for 2 years and counting? That's the problem with egos. Sometimes people with big egos want to feed their own mystique and making mistakes like signing a player who had two games in two years where he meaningfully contributed is a pretty bad blunder, especially when *he* is our MLE signing for 2014-15. I'm a big apologist for Pat Riley, always expecting to see some missed stratagem, but when you couple McRoberts with signing Shannon Brown and Danny Granger, drafting Napier and then dumping a pick to get rid of him, et cetera, let's face it some of Pat's luster has rubbed off. Now he loses Wade? Any other GM would be called into the owner's office. It won't happen here though. No way.
But it's unfair to show this as an inability for both sides to negotiate. You don't think Wade looks at that $6.7M contract of McRoberts and wonder why he is making that kind of money for that production when the rest of the team has to put out like $5 whores?
Of course he does.
Nah, Riley f'ed up the team rather badly, and Wade is an irreplaceable casualty. That's how I see it anyhow.
And where are the undrafted players that should have gotten a chance? We moved like a glacier.
Babbitt? Smdh.
Riley has screwed up PLENTY of times. I never liked the trade for Brent Barry, the Ricky Davis/Mark Blount trade, the signing of Granger and although I was hopeful that McRoberts was more like the player he showed in Charlotte rather than the oft-hurt version we got, I have to agree that we could've done better with that MLE. The circumstances though (LeBron leading Riley on) killed our opportunities since everyone in the market (significant at least) had agreed to deals already.
Either way, Riley gets more lead-way than other GM's because he has proven that he can build winning teams over and over and over. He has made many mistakes along the way but he doesn't sit on his butt defending his moves. He cuts his losses and moves on. Allowing Wade to leave might prove to be his biggest regret yet. Again, hindsight is 20/20. All I know is that since Riley took over the Heat have won plenty, gone to 5 NBA finals, won 3 championships, played in 7 EC Finals and only missed the playoffs 4 times in 21 seasons. Unless Greg Popovich is available, who would you rather have running your team today?
BTW, I do agree with the ego's getting in the way. Riley has a HUGE ego and Wade's ego, overtime, grew equally as big. Ego is why I usually get into issues with the wifey (lol) and compromise/understanding is why we are probably still together regardless if love is always there.
Noted the hindsight clearsight. It is and you're right, but that's the only sight we really have. With that in mind I think the Brent Barry trade was a poor value exchange (we gave up good assets - I have a feeling Austin was finishing his contract), but became worse after Barry's subsequent injury. Wasn't that an expiring deal too? It's been a long time.
Actually, it's interesting that you brought up Ricky Davis, because ego was also a factor there, right? He went after Davis because he erred trading him before for Chris Gatling. Riley doesn't like admitting to making mistakes. McRoberts was a mistake.
Yeah, both Barry and Austin were free agents. Austin was a fan favorite and Barry overachieved with the Clippers. The positional exchange made sense since we had Zo but a hole at the SG postion but no one understood why it was considering that Barry rarely saw the floor. Zo gets suspended during the playoffs where Austin could've helped. We get eliminated.. (hindsight is 20/20) Austin went on to sign a large contract with Orlando and then got equally as large.
As for Davis, he could've been one of the most athletic and talented players to ever wear an NBA uniform but man was he immature and uncoachable. What a waste. I do remember Davis being often hurt during his first stint with the Heat so Miami traded him for the ghost of Chris Gatling. Yeah, I would have regretted that as well. Davis resigned with Cleveland and had a rocky career there arguing with the coach and fighting.... LeBron James for the spotlight Riley, who tamed the likes of Oakley, Mason, Starks, Mourning etc couldn't resist the talent of Ricky Davis and hoped he could help Wade and Shaq into a revival while getting rid of the growing belly of tippy toes Walker. Ouch.... we ended up with the worst season in Riley's tenure.
I honestly can't wait for Riley's tell all book when he retires. He'll sure give lots of love to his players but some of the stories I hope he can tell, like what it was like to coach Ricky "freaking" Davis should be golden.
Hmmm.... McRoberts stretched is $2M a year for 5 years, which is pocket change these days. Also, everyone knows there will be a new amnesty provision in the next CBA. The Heat will use it for Bosh.
I get that and it "might" prove to be the move we needed to make however, why play that card right now if you might needed to create room next off-season if Bosh comes back early in the season and then is out again?
Again, Bosh's uncertainty is the biggest cloud at the moment. Same scenario with a healthy Bosh, Riley does whatever he needs to do to bring Wade back, then the McRoberts stretching would be a no brainer.
What if it's not that though? What if Riley just doesn't want to admit that signing McRoberts was a blunder that held the team back for 2 years and counting? That's the problem with egos. Sometimes people with big egos want to feed their own mystique and making mistakes like signing a player who had two games in two years where he meaningfully contributed is a pretty bad blunder, especially when *he* is our MLE signing for 2014-15. I'm a big apologist for Pat Riley, always expecting to see some missed stratagem, but when you couple McRoberts with signing Shannon Brown and Danny Granger, drafting Napier and then dumping a pick to get rid of him, et cetera, let's face it some of Pat's luster has rubbed off. Now he loses Wade? Any other GM would be called into the owner's office. It won't happen here though. No way.
But it's unfair to show this as an inability for both sides to negotiate. You don't think Wade looks at that $6.7M contract of McRoberts and wonder why he is making that kind of money for that production when the rest of the team has to put out like $5 whores?
Of course he does.
Nah, Riley f'ed up the team rather badly, and Wade is an irreplaceable casualty. That's how I see it anyhow.
And where are the undrafted players that should have gotten a chance? We moved like a glacier.
Babbitt? Smdh.
I forgot about that. He gave up a pick to get rid of Napier too. Smfh.
heat4life wrote:One of my favorite quotes from the great Wayne Gretzky that Riley has repeated several times...
If you don't give yourself the opportunity to even try, then you already failed. Take a shot! And that is all Riley really wants. Now the preparation for those moments begin.
Swaggy P has the same philosophy.
To point out the obvious, Pat Riley is missing 100% of the shots he's not taking this season by choosing to semi-tank instead of competing to win.
I would love for someone to ask Pat to square that philosophy with his repeated tank jobs.
Riley, who tamed the likes of Oakley, Mason, Starks, Mourning etc couldn't resist the talent of Ricky Davis and hoped he could help Wade and Shaq into a revival while getting rid of the growing belly of tippy toes Walker. Ouch.... we ended up with the worst season in Riley's tenure. 
