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MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN

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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#21 » by MettaWorldPanda » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm

Bishop45 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
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Swea y'all try Winslow by comparing him to a random scrub every preseason. We can be fans and realist/non-pragmatist at the same time

I don't think anyone is saying that Nunn is the better all around player Winslow is but there may be an argument here that Nunn is the better PG. To be fair Nunn has played PG all his life while Winslow is trying to find a home at any position besides C or PF. I see what Spo is doing with Duncan Robinson in the lineup. He's trying to put another shooter in the lineup to compliment Butler and Winslow. The problem i have with this is Duncan Robinson is too one dimensional and Waiters might be too ball dominant to put along side both Butler and Winslow.

If Winslow is indeed the starting PG then you have to start Herro along side him. Not only does Herro stretch the floor probably as good or better then Robinson but he can also handle and create like a PG can. Now if Waiters is the starting SG then I think you have to go with Goran Dragic starting at the PG spot. This leaves Winslow to come off the bench with shooters such as Robinson and Herro. This is ideal for Winslow because he can dominate the ball handling role while dishing off to the shooters without having to stand in the corner watching Waiters pound the ball or Butler in Iso.


I don't see an issue with Winslow/Waiters/Jimmy as Winslow/Waiters was fine last year imo, and I also don't think Winslow will be dominating the ball in any line-up with Jimmy; Winslow playing point is more about his role than it is his touches, he doesn't need a lionshare to be effective. Waiters is literally our best catch&shoot option, why wouldn't we want to play him with our best playmakers?

There's a lot of PG's that played point all of their lives that Winslow is better than, I would rather find out if Nunn is a rotational player first before pitting him to Winslow. He's a more natural PG perhaps, but that has paperthin value in the league today- we have guys that can make plays and play in the PnR and that's the game

As long as Winslow doesn't have to play matador in the corner with the opposing team's bigs he can find spaces to contribute

Meh. I think you run into a spacing problem with Winslow, Waiters, and Butler. Butler in himself is not really a great three point shooter. Basically you only have Meyers or KO as a pure stretch player on the floor with those guys. Spo is trying to alleviate the problem by adding Robinson to the starting lineup but I don't think he's the answer in jest. In a perfect world Winslow is a Scottie Pippen type of scorer and point forward with that lineup but he is not. We are in year 5 with Winslow and the story still remains the same. I view Winslow as a super utility role player on a winning team. Not the transcendent PG some in here view him as.

What I am clamoring for is Herro in the starting lineup if Winslow starts. Herro right in the middle between Butler and Winslow sounds like a winning recipe. This gives Winslow two viable scoring options on the floor to allow him to do the little things he does so well.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#22 » by kobewade11 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:56 pm

sometimes I wish Winslow was on another team just so I have to stop hearing what he isnt from Heat fans
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#23 » by Bishop45 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:44 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I don't think anyone is saying that Nunn is the better all around player Winslow is but there may be an argument here that Nunn is the better PG. To be fair Nunn has played PG all his life while Winslow is trying to find a home at any position besides C or PF. I see what Spo is doing with Duncan Robinson in the lineup. He's trying to put another shooter in the lineup to compliment Butler and Winslow. The problem i have with this is Duncan Robinson is too one dimensional and Waiters might be too ball dominant to put along side both Butler and Winslow.

If Winslow is indeed the starting PG then you have to start Herro along side him. Not only does Herro stretch the floor probably as good or better then Robinson but he can also handle and create like a PG can. Now if Waiters is the starting SG then I think you have to go with Goran Dragic starting at the PG spot. This leaves Winslow to come off the bench with shooters such as Robinson and Herro. This is ideal for Winslow because he can dominate the ball handling role while dishing off to the shooters without having to stand in the corner watching Waiters pound the ball or Butler in Iso.


I don't see an issue with Winslow/Waiters/Jimmy as Winslow/Waiters was fine last year imo, and I also don't think Winslow will be dominating the ball in any line-up with Jimmy; Winslow playing point is more about his role than it is his touches, he doesn't need a lionshare to be effective. Waiters is literally our best catch&shoot option, why wouldn't we want to play him with our best playmakers?

There's a lot of PG's that played point all of their lives that Winslow is better than, I would rather find out if Nunn is a rotational player first before pitting him to Winslow. He's a more natural PG perhaps, but that has paperthin value in the league today- we have guys that can make plays and play in the PnR and that's the game

As long as Winslow doesn't have to play matador in the corner with the opposing team's bigs he can find spaces to contribute

Meh. I think you run into a spacing problem with Winslow, Waiters, and Butler. Butler in himself is not really a great three point shooter. Basically you only have Meyers or KO as a pure stretch player on the floor with those guys. Spo is trying to alleviate the problem by adding Robinson to the starting lineup but I don't think he's the answer in jest. In a perfect world Winslow is a Scottie Pippen type of scorer and point forward with that lineup but he is not. We are in year 5 with Winslow and the story still remains the same. I view Winslow as a super utility role player on a winning team. Not the transcendent PG some in here view him as.

What I am clamoring for is Herro in the starting lineup if Winslow starts. Herro right in the middle between Butler and Winslow sounds like a winning recipe. This gives Winslow two viable scoring options on the floor to allow him to do the little things he does so well.


We both agree on Winslow, I don't think anyone really thinks he's a transcendent PG or climbing the top 10 PG ranks, he's just a special type of role player

And in what world is Waiters not our best catch and shoot option, I'm still misty on how he's a negative for our spacing, or how Herro's an upgrade?
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#24 » by AirP. » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Bishop45 wrote:I don't see an issue with Winslow/Waiters/Jimmy as Winslow/Waiters was fine last year imo, and I also don't think Winslow will be dominating the ball in any line-up with Jimmy; Winslow playing point is more about his role than it is his touches, he doesn't need a lionshare to be effective. Waiters is literally our best catch&shoot option, why wouldn't we want to play him with our best playmakers?

Waiters and Butler aren't a good mix because too often Waiters likes to do other things than just catch and shoot, namely attacking the basket. He's just not an efficient player.

Let's look at Dion Waiters, last year was his best year in TS% at .530 which is way below average, looking at all the NBA teams last year, only 1 team had a worse TS% than Waiters and that was the New York Knicks at .529. Miami was 27th at .542. You need efficient players, not inefficient players who fit a certain shot criteria because he does more than that which drops his efficiency greatly. Not only that, but looking at Dion's ORTG and DRTG each year shows that he's never been an overall positive player on the court.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html#misc_stats::16
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01.html

If this "positionless" talk is real inside the Miami organization, I'd rather see (with the current roster) Dragic, Winslow and Butler for your starters at the 1-3 than Winslow, Waiters and Butler.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#25 » by MettaWorldPanda » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:44 pm

AirP. wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:I don't see an issue with Winslow/Waiters/Jimmy as Winslow/Waiters was fine last year imo, and I also don't think Winslow will be dominating the ball in any line-up with Jimmy; Winslow playing point is more about his role than it is his touches, he doesn't need a lionshare to be effective. Waiters is literally our best catch&shoot option, why wouldn't we want to play him with our best playmakers?

Waiters and Butler aren't a good mix because too often Waiters likes to do other things than just catch and shoot, namely attacking the basket. He's just not an efficient player.

Let's look at Dion Waiters, last year was his best year in TS% at .530 which is way below average, looking at all the NBA teams last year, only 1 team had a worse TS% than Waiters and that was the New York Knicks at .529. Miami was 27th at .542. You need efficient players, not inefficient players who fit a certain shot criteria because he does more than that which drops his efficiency greatly. Not only that, but looking at Dion's ORTG and DRTG each year shows that he's never been an overall positive player on the court.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html#misc_stats::16
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01.html

If this "positionless" talk is real inside the Miami organization, I'd rather see (with the current roster) Dragic, Winslow and Butler for your starters at the 1-3 than Winslow, Waiters and Butler.

Exactly my same thoughts. I'm also not a fan of the free throw shooting percentage of that back court either. We would be lucky if Waiters is able to creep back up into the 70% range which he's at a career 69% and Winslow at a career 64% while shooting 62% last year is just atrocious and one of our main Achilles heels last year. We can't afford to have our back court attacking the rim and getting fouled only to shoot like that at the line. I'm to the opinion this is why someone like Herro was made a priority in the draft to remedy this.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#26 » by QUIZ » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:42 pm

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Ezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#27 » by gom » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:49 pm

I'm in for the Win. Get it, Bishop45.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#28 » by Bishop45 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:56 pm

AirP. wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:I don't see an issue with Winslow/Waiters/Jimmy as Winslow/Waiters was fine last year imo, and I also don't think Winslow will be dominating the ball in any line-up with Jimmy; Winslow playing point is more about his role than it is his touches, he doesn't need a lionshare to be effective. Waiters is literally our best catch&shoot option, why wouldn't we want to play him with our best playmakers?

Waiters and Butler aren't a good mix because too often Waiters likes to do other things than just catch and shoot, namely attacking the basket. He's just not an efficient player.

Let's look at Dion Waiters, last year was his best year in TS% at .530 which is way below average, looking at all the NBA teams last year, only 1 team had a worse TS% than Waiters and that was the New York Knicks at .529. Miami was 27th at .542. You need efficient players, not inefficient players who fit a certain shot criteria because he does more than that which drops his efficiency greatly. Not only that, but looking at Dion's ORTG and DRTG each year shows that he's never been an overall positive player on the court.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html#misc_stats::16
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01.html

If this "positionless" talk is real inside the Miami organization, I'd rather see (with the current roster) Dragic, Winslow and Butler for your starters at the 1-3 than Winslow, Waiters and Butler.


Not saying that it's not an issue, but what's his efficiency last year have to do with his fit next to Jimmy/Winslow? Fact remains that he's our best catch-n-shoot player, best suited to play next to players that will set him up for more opportunities- and damned, if I didn't see it, say it before: Jimmy and Winslow need another catch-n-shoot option outside of Olynyk as Panda stated.

But you rather have Dion on the bench playing microwave scorer although you acknowledge that it's his worse attribute? You rather him have more reign on the bench to do what you know that he's worse at instead of playing a needed and more suitable role in the starting line-up? But I'm c'wazy.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#29 » by goodboy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:49 pm

Chalm Down wrote:atl gt, we meet again

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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#30 » by AirP. » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:14 am

Bishop45 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:I don't see an issue with Winslow/Waiters/Jimmy as Winslow/Waiters was fine last year imo, and I also don't think Winslow will be dominating the ball in any line-up with Jimmy; Winslow playing point is more about his role than it is his touches, he doesn't need a lionshare to be effective. Waiters is literally our best catch&shoot option, why wouldn't we want to play him with our best playmakers?

Waiters and Butler aren't a good mix because too often Waiters likes to do other things than just catch and shoot, namely attacking the basket. He's just not an efficient player.

Let's look at Dion Waiters, last year was his best year in TS% at .530 which is way below average, looking at all the NBA teams last year, only 1 team had a worse TS% than Waiters and that was the New York Knicks at .529. Miami was 27th at .542. You need efficient players, not inefficient players who fit a certain shot criteria because he does more than that which drops his efficiency greatly. Not only that, but looking at Dion's ORTG and DRTG each year shows that he's never been an overall positive player on the court.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html#misc_stats::16
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01.html

If this "positionless" talk is real inside the Miami organization, I'd rather see (with the current roster) Dragic, Winslow and Butler for your starters at the 1-3 than Winslow, Waiters and Butler.


Not saying that it's not an issue, but what's his efficiency last year have to do with his fit next to Jimmy/Winslow? Fact remains that he's our best catch-n-shoot player, best suited to play next to players that will set him up for more opportunities- and damned, if I didn't see it, say it before: Jimmy and Winslow need another catch-n-shoot option outside of Olynyk as Panda stated.

But you rather have Dion on the bench playing microwave scorer although you acknowledge that it's his worse attribute? You rather him have more reign on the bench to do what you know that he's worse at instead of playing a needed and more suitable role in the starting line-up? But I'm c'wazy.

Yes, Dion does have 1 aspect of his game that fits with Butler and Winslow but you have to take the bad with the player also, this is why while Dion has shot the ball well from 3pt range for multiple seasons, his efficiency was low and usually way lower than league average. You're talking about a guy who doesn't even want to hear about the possibility of him coming off the bench but people think he'll listen to whoever about changing his game? I would much rather see Dragic in there instead of Dion and big deal if Winslow isn't designated as the PG, they can take turns running the offense although the best PG on the team would be Butler who actually was highly effective as the PG in the playoffs vs the eventual champs, he did well enough to get Philly to park Simmons at the dunker's spot.

I'd use Dion as a scoring 6th man(although I'd rather move him) because Spo can just pull him if he's not doing well and it's not going to screw with your starter's chemistry and if he's doing well that game, you can give the starters a little more rest. The best move would be to package him and assets to get a non negative player(he's a career -11 in ORTG-DRTG, that's Wiggins impact which is horrible). Too bad CP3 has 3 years on his contract(which is why I don't think he's currently in Miami), he'd be a HUGE upgrade and I'm not so sure Riley won't pull the trigger soon still. I hope that 2nd preseason game was mostly to see what if they could get some rotation minutes out of players that currently aren't in the 8-9 man rotation. The fewer negative players you have in your rotation the better.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#31 » by HeatFanLifer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:42 am

IggieCC wrote:this frekin op piling up meaningless wins


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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#32 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:54 am

goodboy wrote:
Chalm Down wrote:atl gt, we meet again

embedded in your dna now

Don't forget about kangaroo boy.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#33 » by Bishop45 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:41 am

AirP. wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:
AirP. wrote:Waiters and Butler aren't a good mix because too often Waiters likes to do other things than just catch and shoot, namely attacking the basket. He's just not an efficient player.

Let's look at Dion Waiters, last year was his best year in TS% at .530 which is way below average, looking at all the NBA teams last year, only 1 team had a worse TS% than Waiters and that was the New York Knicks at .529. Miami was 27th at .542. You need efficient players, not inefficient players who fit a certain shot criteria because he does more than that which drops his efficiency greatly. Not only that, but looking at Dion's ORTG and DRTG each year shows that he's never been an overall positive player on the court.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html#misc_stats::16
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01.html

If this "positionless" talk is real inside the Miami organization, I'd rather see (with the current roster) Dragic, Winslow and Butler for your starters at the 1-3 than Winslow, Waiters and Butler.


Not saying that it's not an issue, but what's his efficiency last year have to do with his fit next to Jimmy/Winslow? Fact remains that he's our best catch-n-shoot player, best suited to play next to players that will set him up for more opportunities- and damned, if I didn't see it, say it before: Jimmy and Winslow need another catch-n-shoot option outside of Olynyk as Panda stated.

But you rather have Dion on the bench playing microwave scorer although you acknowledge that it's his worse attribute? You rather him have more reign on the bench to do what you know that he's worse at instead of playing a needed and more suitable role in the starting line-up? But I'm c'wazy.

Yes, Dion does have 1 aspect of his game that fits with Butler and Winslow but you have to take the bad with the player also, this is why while Dion has shot the ball well from 3pt range for multiple seasons, his efficiency was low and usually way lower than league average. You're talking about a guy who doesn't even want to hear about the possibility of him coming off the bench but people think he'll listen to whoever about changing his game? I would much rather see Dragic in there instead of Dion and big deal if Winslow isn't designated as the PG, they can take turns running the offense although the best PG on the team would be Butler who actually was highly effective as the PG in the playoffs vs the eventual champs, he did well enough to get Philly to park Simmons at the dunker's spot.

I'd use Dion as a scoring 6th man(although I'd rather move him) because Spo can just pull him if he's not doing well and it's not going to screw with your starter's chemistry and if he's doing well that game, you can give the starters a little more rest. The best move would be to package him and assets to get a non negative player(he's a career -11 in ORTG-DRTG, that's Wiggins impact which is horrible). Too bad CP3 has 3 years on his contract(which is why I don't think he's currently in Miami), he'd be a HUGE upgrade and I'm not so sure Riley won't pull the trigger soon still. I hope that 2nd preseason game was mostly to see what if they could get some rotation minutes out of players that currently aren't in the 8-9 man rotation. The fewer negative players you have in your rotation the better.


Play him where he's most likely to have the least impact, because he's a negative player

Don't play him where he'd benefit the team the most, because he's a negative player

I git it,
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#34 » by DayofMourning » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:52 am

You know Waiters don't want nothing to do with that microwave. He's trying to pass Jabbar in all time scoring.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#35 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:18 am

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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#36 » by Wiltside » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:24 am

Sure sounding like Spo is gonna give DRob every opportunity.
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#37 » by GopherIt! » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:56 am

first gt of season is ATL? fo reelz???

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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#38 » by eddieheatfan » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:53 am

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so far so good,lets hope that the improvement continues :D
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#39 » by Chalm Down » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:13 am

HeatFanLifer wrote:
IggieCC wrote:this frekin op piling up meaningless wins


Thought you dyed


Iggie was busy watching anime and eating skinny cow ice cream this summer
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Re: MUNDAY, OCT.14., ATL GT @ MIA, SEVEM-TIRTY PM ET, BRING POPCORN 

Post#40 » by Chalm Down » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:17 am

goodboy wrote:
Chalm Down wrote:atl gt, we meet again

embedded in your dna now


I proudly claim my atl heritage
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