Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[SerialChiller]

Wow, now Highsmith is injured as well?

Good news, Dru Smith is still healthy

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

He planning on making the roster and rotation by winning the battle of attrition. And convincing Spo he can be his next pet Gabe.

[SerialChiller]

As for Herro, the reason he often leads us in shot attempts and has the full green light is because we struggle to generate offense and that is the only thing he is able to contribute so if he isn't jacking up shots and hopefully making them what are we paying and playing him for? Jimmy likes to pick his spots especially in the regular season and Bam focuses on defense and rebounding mostly, offense after if at all some games.

[Hallstar]

As for Herro, the reason he often leads us in shot attempts and has the full green light is because we struggle to generate offense and that is the only thing he is able to contribute so if he isn't jacking up shots and hopefully making them what are we paying and playing him for? Jimmy likes to pick his spots especially in the regular season and Bam focuses on defense and rebounding mostly, offense after if at all some games.

If Herro started passing the ball back when he gets it with 5 secs left would be a hilarious exercise in efficiency

[IceColdCubano]

As for Herro, the reason he often leads us in shot attempts and has the full green light is because we struggle to generate offense and that is the only thing he is able to contribute so if he isn't jacking up shots and hopefully making them what are we paying and playing him for? Jimmy likes to pick his spots especially in the regular season and Bam focuses on defense and rebounding mostly, offense after if at all some games.

If Herro started passing the ball back when he gets it with 5 secs left would be a hilarious exercise in efficiency

Yeah he does get a large end of the shot clock attempts when the team is struggling they hot potato him a last second shot attempt.

[AirP.]

As for Herro, the reason he often leads us in shot attempts and has the full green light is because we struggle to generate offense and that is the only thing he is able to contribute so if he isn't jacking up shots and hopefully making them what are we paying and playing him for? Jimmy likes to pick his spots especially in the regular season and Bam focuses on defense and rebounding mostly, offense after if at all some games.

If Herro started passing the ball back when he gets it with 5 secs left would be a hilarious exercise in efficiency

Yeah he does get a large end of the shot clock attempts when the team is struggling they hot potato him a last second shot attempt.

What? Herro took 9.7% of his shots with 4 or few seconds on the shot clock and the guy I kept seeing get handed the ball with the shot clock almost up... Lowry took 14% of his total shots with 4 or less seconds on the shot. Butler was up there at 13% of his shots being 4 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If Herro started passing the ball back when he gets it with 5 secs left would be a hilarious exercise in efficiency

Yeah he does get a large end of the shot clock attempts when the team is struggling they hot potato him a last second shot attempt.

What? Herro took 9.7% of his shots with 4 or few seconds on the shot clock and the guy I kept seeing get handed the ball with the shot clock almost up... Lowry took 14% of his total shots with 4 or less seconds on the shot. Butler was up there at 13% of his shots being 4 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

Exactly, Herro is the one handing out the grenades. Apparently his main focus was maximizing his movements this summer though so we’ll see

[AirP.]

Yeah he does get a large end of the shot clock attempts when the team is struggling they hot potato him a last second shot attempt.

What? Herro took 9.7% of his shots with 4 or few seconds on the shot clock and the guy I kept seeing get handed the ball with the shot clock almost up... Lowry took 14% of his total shots with 4 or less seconds on the shot. Butler was up there at 13% of his shots being 4 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

Exactly, Herro is the one handing out the grenades. Apparently, his main focus was maximizing his movements this summer though so we’ll see

I'd love to find some play by play files that had pass by pass data in them but haven't found that yet (nbastuffer/bigballdata only has the result of the possessions). The best I've found is this graphic halfway through last season. I have a couple of screenshots from plays that produced grenades to Kyle Lowry from the season before last, but I've posted those in game threads.

Read on Twitter

[Hallstar]

If Herro started passing the ball back when he gets it with 5 secs left would be a hilarious exercise in efficiency

Yeah he does get a large end of the shot clock attempts when the team is struggling they hot potato him a last second shot attempt.

What? Herro took 9.7% of his shots with 4 or few seconds on the shot clock and the guy I kept seeing get handed the ball with the shot clock almost up... Lowry took 14% of his total shots with 4 or less seconds on the shot. Butler was up there at 13% of his shots being 4 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

There's a difference between Butler dribbling out the clock to set up his shot and being passed the ball when everything has broken down.

Your stats as usual lack a little thing called context. Do you watch games or watch stats?

[AirP.]

Yeah he does get a large end of the shot clock attempts when the team is struggling they hot potato him a last second shot attempt.

What? Herro took 9.7% of his shots with 4 or few seconds on the shot clock and the guy I kept seeing get handed the ball with the shot clock almost up... Lowry took 14% of his total shots with 4 or less seconds on the shot. Butler was up there at 13% of his shots being 4 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

There's a difference between Butler dribbling out the clock to set up his shot and being passed the ball when everything has broken down.

Your stats as usual lack a little thing called context

You are correct and I can't do too much about that unless I go back to nba.com's video play by play box score and write down everything that happened (can't find pass by pass stats) so there is context and from time to time I use to take multiple screenshots of plays that stuck out to me that it seems nobody ever sees. Here's a few to look at when I was screenshotting plays it seems nobody ever seems to see. It looks like sometimes Herro abandons the play near the end of the shot clock and heads the other way before the shot is up which makes it tougher on his teammates playing 4 on 5 unless they pass it to him at near half court.

For instance, Herro dancing around looking for his own shot, wasting the shot clock with Lowry wide open. Lowry was kinda of mad after this play.

Spoiler:

Here he is with 2 defenders on him and Lowry wide open... no pass.

What does Herro do, he attacks forward and to his right which moves Caruso closer to Lowry so he can be in position to contest which he does.

Lowry has to pump fake to not get his shot blocked, take a dribble away from the basket and put up a tougher shot while being contested before the shot clock runs out.

Hopefully advances in AI will be able to pull out pass by pass data fairly easy. I'm sure there are services out there that already do that which are quite expensive and just not available to the general public.

Another grenade for Lowry.

Spoiler:

Herro dancing around looking for his shot, the screen could get him open so he picks up his dribble with around 4 on the shotclock, Lowry seeing this he has to make himself available to get the ball and at least get a shot off, but he has a sizable defender in Tatum on him, so he needs space to get the shot off in a small amount of time.

And here he is getting the shot off.

Herro likes to head down court before possessions are over so sometimes he's already at half court when he gets a late shot clock pass (he left his teamates in a 4 on 5 situation) because he's basically abandoned the play late in the shot clock.

Spoiler:

Here's the 2021-2022 playoffs, under 4 seconds on the shot clock where's Herro, he's at half court already.


Where was he at just a second before this? Glad you asked!

Sorry, this is one I just didn't understand so I had to mark the space he decided not to be available at vs going to nearly half court.

[Hallstar]

What? Herro took 9.7% of his shots with 4 or few seconds on the shot clock and the guy I kept seeing get handed the ball with the shot clock almost up... Lowry took 14% of his total shots with 4 or less seconds on the shot. Butler was up there at 13% of his shots being 4 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

There's a difference between Butler dribbling out the clock to set up his shot and being passed the ball when everything has broken down.

Your stats as usual lack a little thing called context

You are correct and I can't do too much about that unless I go back to nba.com's video play by play box score and write down everything that happened (can't find pass by pass stats) so there is context and from time to time I use to take multiple screenshots of plays that stuck out to me that it seems nobody ever sees. Here's a few to look at when I was screenshotting plays it seems nobody ever seems to see. It looks like sometimes Herro abandons the play near the end of the shot clock and heads the other way before the shot is up which makes it tougher on his teammates playing 4 on 5 unless they pass it to him at near half court.

For instance, Herro dancing around looking for his own shot, wasting the shot clock with Lowry wide open. Lowry was kinda of mad after this play.

Spoiler:

Here he is with 2 defenders on him and Lowry wide open... no pass.

What does Herro do, he attacks forward and to his right which moves Caruso closer to Lowry so he can be in position to contest which he does.

Lowry has to pump fake to not get his shot blocked, take a dribble away from the basket and put up a tougher shot while being contested before the shot clock runs out.

Hopefully advances in AI will be able to pull out pass by pass data fairly easy. I'm sure there are services out there that already do that which are quite expensive and just not available to the general public.

Another grenade for Lowry.

Spoiler:

Herro dancing around looking for his shot, the screen could get him open so he picks up his dribble with around 4 on the shotclock, Lowry seeing this he has to make himself available to get the ball and at least get a shot off, but he has a sizable defender in Tatum on him, so he needs space to get the shot off in a small amount of time.

And here he is getting the shot off.

Herro likes to head down court before possessions are over so sometimes he's already at half court when he gets a late shot clock pass (he left his teamates in a 4 on 5 situation) because he's basically abandoned the play late in the shot clock.

Spoiler:

Here's the 2021-2022 playoffs, under 4 seconds on the shot clock where's Herro, he's at half court already.


Where was he at just a second before this? Glad you asked!

Sorry, this is one I just didn't understand so I had to mark the space he decided not to be available at vs going to nearly half court.

That Bulls clip if Herro wasn't there (halfcourt) and the pass was intercepted, you'd be saying he didn't create an angle. I know how you comment on this stuff bro. You're consistent if nothing else.

Also based on your same logic, why didn't you say Lowry ran to halfcourt?

so based on your own still images, Lowry isn't open there with 3 secs left?

That's not contested if Duncan or Strus received it. If that got contested then Caruso was gonna contest at 5 secs also

And in all your research guess you didn't come across once when Herro gets handed some BS.

Did anybody say no one else has received the desperation pass or did I say Herro receives more than most?

You just couldn't accept a simple statement, you had to run around looking for selected "clips" when people are discussing season long phenomena

[twix2500]

Play calls are not meant to executed in the last 5 secs, unless its an end of quarter shot. When plays are taken too long to run the first thing you look at is the point guard who is bringing the ball upcourt. Is he struggling to handle pressure and is he starting the play wrong or on the wrong side? If a play is started in the wrong direction, it can cause extra passes and motion to be made or it could end up in a players hands who doesn't make the right decision etc. Is he walking the ball up court? Pick N Roll and DHO take a lot of time to run. So you want to get into the play early.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

There's a difference between Butler dribbling out the clock to set up his shot and being passed the ball when everything has broken down.

Your stats as usual lack a little thing called context

You are correct and I can't do too much about that unless I go back to nba.com's video play by play box score and write down everything that happened (can't find pass by pass stats) so there is context and from time to time I use to take multiple screenshots of plays that stuck out to me that it seems nobody ever sees. Here's a few to look at when I was screenshotting plays it seems nobody ever seems to see. It looks like sometimes Herro abandons the play near the end of the shot clock and heads the other way before the shot is up which makes it tougher on his teammates playing 4 on 5 unless they pass it to him at near half court.

For instance, Herro dancing around looking for his own shot, wasting the shot clock with Lowry wide open. Lowry was kinda of mad after this play.

Spoiler:

Here he is with 2 defenders on him and Lowry wide open... no pass.

What does Herro do, he attacks forward and to his right which moves Caruso closer to Lowry so he can be in position to contest which he does.

Lowry has to pump fake to not get his shot blocked, take a dribble away from the basket and put up a tougher shot while being contested before the shot clock runs out.

Hopefully advances in AI will be able to pull out pass by pass data fairly easy. I'm sure there are services out there that already do that which are quite expensive and just not available to the general public.

Another grenade for Lowry.

Spoiler:

Herro dancing around looking for his shot, the screen could get him open so he picks up his dribble with around 4 on the shotclock, Lowry seeing this he has to make himself available to get the ball and at least get a shot off, but he has a sizable defender in Tatum on him, so he needs space to get the shot off in a small amount of time.

And here he is getting the shot off.

Herro likes to head down court before possessions are over so sometimes he's already at half court when he gets a late shot clock pass (he left his teamates in a 4 on 5 situation) because he's basically abandoned the play late in the shot clock.

Spoiler:

Here's the 2021-2022 playoffs, under 4 seconds on the shot clock where's Herro, he's at half court already.


Where was he at just a second before this? Glad you asked!

Sorry, this is one I just didn't understand so I had to mark the space he decided not to be available at vs going to nearly half court.

That Bulls clip if Herro wasn't there (halfcourt) and the pass was intercepted, you'd be saying he didn't create an angle. I know how you comment on this stuff bro. You're consistent if nothing else.

Also based on your same logic, why didn't you say Lowry ran to halfcourt?

He ran to a spot on the floor a small guard could probably shoot over a good PF defender without having to pump since he was against the clock.

so based on your own still images, Lowry isn't open there with 3 secs left?

Good lord... no, the ball could have been tipped because instead of passing it to Lowry when he was open Herro actually attacked going forward and to his right which got Caruso closer to Lowry to be able to contest the shot.

That's not contested if Duncan or Strus received it. If that got contested then Caruso was gonna contest at 5 secs also.

Come on, you can't believe this, the first picture Caruso has his back to Lowry which means he'd have to turn and run at him FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY if Herro passed it, the next screenshot is where Caruso has already turned around and is moving quickly at the high post to Lowry. How is this even debatable unless you have a huge bias?

Also sure, Duncan or Strus who are considerably taller may have been able to get the shot off, but they weren't this was Lowry and you have to know your personal. This is the NBA, not some pickup game with people you have no idea what their strengths or limitations are.

And in all your research guess you didn't come across once when Herro gets handed some BS.

Oh, it happens, probably to the same degree it happens to most people, but like I have shown with data, other players are having to take bigger percentage of their shots near the end of the shot clock then Herro. And since I watch the games I see Herro run out the clock on himself to get some of those shots, Lowry usually doesn't, he's looking to almost always pass the ball if he can.

Did anybody say no one else has received the desperation pass or did I say Herro receives more than most?

Well then explain the context of this. It would seem to indicate you feel Herro takes an incredible amount of his shots at the end of the shot clock which isn't true. I would also assume with the talk of efficiency this is why you think he's not as efficient as he is which also isn't the case.

If Herro started passing the ball back when he gets it with 5 secs left would be a hilarious exercise in efficiency

You just couldn't accept a simple statement, you had to run around looking for selected "clips" when people are discussing season long phenomena

No running around for some of this info, I've been making these arguments for multiple years now and people on this board keep seeing what they want. I could have posted information faster if I didn't have so many meetings this morning.

[Kobewade11]

On the topic of Herro, really enjoyable read here

Read on Twitter

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[AirP.]

Team building question, why hasn't Cain been offered a 2+1 contract to lock him somewhat long term? Its highly possible Martin will be gone next year with the MLE being 13 million and with Miami not wanting to be a multi-year luxury tax team. I think it's a safe bet that Cain could be at least a decent rotation player if needed. Highsmith and probably Richardson will be FA next summer too.

[carnageta]

Prediction - Tyler Herro and Jordan Poole will have some wars this season. I expect them to both drop 35+ on each other at least once during the Heat / Wizards matchups.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[carnageta]

Read on Twitter

Would have actually fit in nicely with our team if he wasn't so offensively limited. Spo loves them 6'6" power-forwards.

Point Winslow
Herro
Butler
Caleb
Bam

Would have been something I'd like to see.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[Bishop45]

Read on Twitter

My guy.