Official Off-Season Trade/Rumor Thread

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1121 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:21 pm

svg has the nets winning the east

dolphinatik · Post #1122 » by **dolphinatik** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:22 pm

ESPN is annoying. Thier article about MM probably got him amnestied as well.

How about Kendall Marshall for Joel Anthony? Marshall is on the trade block supposedly since they dont need a pg and we could shave a small amount of the luxury tax.

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1123 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:28 pm

dolphinatik wrote:ESPN is annoying. Thier article about MM probably got him amnestied as well.

How about Kendall Marshall for Joel Anthony? Marshall is on the trade block supposedly since they dont need a pg and we could shave a small amount of the luxury tax.

no one wants joel.

greg4012 · Post #1124 » by **greg4012** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:12 pm

Joel has a player option after this season that I'm sure he will exercise. So, as many have stated, it is important we trade him. The problem is, I don't see many teams willingly taking on a player of his talents for 3+ million dollars.

Tell me your thoughts on trading Joel along with Philly's lottery protected 1st for some sort of asset or expiring. Do you all think that would work? Do you think it's worth it?

Duane · Post #1125 » by **Duane** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:28 pm

Joel will be an expiring next season. He can be traded then. He's not useless as a center.

EscapoTHB · Post #1126 » by **EscapoTHB** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:53 pm

I like Joel. Whenever he comes on, he always works hard and does his job. And he's been working hard every year to get better offensively. He also doesn't complain about minutes or his role. True professional. Guys like him and James Jones--we're fortunate.

nbhadja · Post #1127 » by **nbhadja** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:59 pm

EscapoTHB wrote:I like Joel. Whenever he comes on, he always works hard and does his job. And he's been working hard every year to get better offensively. He also doesn't complain about minutes or his role. True professional. Guys like him and James Jones--we're fortunate.

Really? We are fortunate to be paying like 3.8 million a year to the worst player in the NBA in Joel?? He is not even worth a roster spot on vet minimum, let alone a roster spot on 3.8 million a year. He is an awful player with no room to improve, which is why he does not play. Wtf was Riley thinking when he signed him to that contract.

LikeABosh · Post #1128 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:08 pm

Joel is not the worst player in the NBA. I'd gladly take him over that ogre Perkins

WD · Post #1129 » by WD » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:10 pm

we USED jOEL AS a Center.....he never was a Center in the traditional sense at 6.9

The Miami Heat are like Apple Computers....We have a proprietary system that came with Pat Riley.....everyone/everything has to fit our operating system. where as the league is a basic PC...outside pieces fit easier

....can't judge any player by what is done here.....

Players that come here will work(think Mashburn), but are usually more productive on PC/other teams(again think Mashburn)......

as basic as I'm gonna put it.....

BTW, unless you've run a company or in charge of a department where you work, stop playing internet GM...with other peoples money..I am saying this with a smile

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1130 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:17 pm

LikeABosh wrote:Joel is not the worst player in the NBA. I'd gladly take him over that ogre Perkins

nah, give me perkins over joel.

LikeABosh · Post #1131 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:38 pm

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:Joel is not the worst player in the NBA. I'd gladly take him over that ogre Perkins

nah, give me perkins over joel.

Perkins is so bad. Unless you're playing against Dwight Howard, he's probably the most useless player in the league. He's a blackhole offensively and a caveman on defense. Joel at the very least sets good picks, protects the rim, and attacks the offensive glass

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1132 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:39 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:Joel is not the worst player in the NBA. I'd gladly take him over that ogre Perkins

nah, give me perkins over joel.

Perkins is so bad. Unless you're playing against Dwight Howard, he's probably the most useless player in the league. He's a blackhole offensively and a caveman on defense. Joel at the very least sets good picks, protects the rim, and attacks the offensive glass

Perkins is the better player

LikeABosh · Post #1133 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:42 pm

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Perkins is the better player

How? Because he's "big"?

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1134 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:53 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Perkins is the better player

How? Because he's "big"?

What games are you watching? Joel anthony wouldn't play on any other team in this league. I am a big joel fan, feel free to look at some of my past posts, but i'm not going to be a homer on this issue. Perkins can catch a basketball. He can set a screen, he can defend bigger players, he can score around the rim.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

I am going to use stats. Feel free to provide something other than an "eye test" argument.

Slot Machine · Post #1135 » by **Slot Machine** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:04 pm

Take a gander at some of these on/off stats.

2013 playoffs: OKC's ORTG dropped 17.2 points when he was on the floor as opposed to when he was on the bench. OKC's DRTG was slightly better when he was on the bench.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

2010-2011 Perkins: 94 ORTG 105 DRTG
2011-2012 Perkins: 96 ORTG 103 DRTG
2012-2013 Perkins: 94 ORTG 102 DRTG

2010-2011 Anthony: 120 ORTG 104 DRTG
2011-2012 Anthony: 113 ORTG 100 DRTG
2012-2013 Anthony: 108 ORTG 103 DRTG

Per 36 minutes, Perkins averages .6 more points on worse FG%. Perkins is abysmal defensively and offensively whereas Joel can come in for a few minutes and at least blow up a few pick and rolls. Perkins can't defend anybody anymore, he got embarrassed in the post by both Z-Bo and Gasol, and post defense is his supposed specialty. Perkins somehow managed a negative PER in the playoffs this year. He is terrible.

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1136 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:05 pm

Slot Machine wrote:Take a gander at some of these on/off stats.

2013 playoffs: OKC's ORTG dropped 17.2 points when he was on the floor as opposed to when he was on the bench. OKC's DRTG was slightly better when he was on the bench.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

2010-2011 Perkins: 94 ORTG 105 DRTG
2011-2012 Perkins: 96 ORTG 103 DRTG
2012-2013 Perkins: 94 ORTG 102 DRTG

2010-2011 Anthony: 120 ORTG 104 DRTG
2011-2012 Anthony: 113 ORTG 100 DRTG
2012-2013 Anthony: 108 ORTG 103 DRTG

Per 36 minutes, Perkins averages .6 more points on worse FG%. Perkins is abysmal defensively and offensively whereas Joel can come in for a few minutes and at least blow up a few pick and rolls. Perkins can't defend anybody anymore, he got embarrassed in the post by both Z-Bo and Gasol, and post defense is his supposed specialty. Perkins somehow managed a negative PER in the playoffs this year. He is terrible.

Perkins would ahve played a totally different role on the heat, only having to play 15min a game and grab some boards and defending. Not to mention brooks did a terrible job utilizing perkins. Perkins is clearly a better player than joel imo, you have yet to show me something to make me think otherwise.

Also, ortg and drtg are not good stats to use because they are affected by the other players on the floor.

Slot Machine · Post #1137 » by **Slot Machine** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:12 pm

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Slot Machine wrote:Take a gander at some of these on/off stats.

2013 playoffs: OKC's ORTG dropped 17.2 points when he was on the floor as opposed to when he was on the bench. OKC's DRTG was slightly better when he was on the bench.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

2010-2011 Perkins: 94 ORTG 105 DRTG
2011-2012 Perkins: 96 ORTG 103 DRTG
2012-2013 Perkins: 94 ORTG 102 DRTG

2010-2011 Anthony: 120 ORTG 104 DRTG
2011-2012 Anthony: 113 ORTG 100 DRTG
2012-2013 Anthony: 108 ORTG 103 DRTG

Per 36 minutes, Perkins averages .6 more points on worse FG%. Perkins is abysmal defensively and offensively whereas Joel can come in for a few minutes and at least blow up a few pick and rolls. Perkins can't defend anybody anymore, he got embarrassed in the post by both Z-Bo and Gasol, and post defense is his supposed specialty. Perkins somehow managed a negative PER in the playoffs this year. He is terrible.

Perkins would ahve played a totally different role on the heat, only having to play 15min a game and grab some boards and defending. Not to mention brooks did a terrible job utilizing perkins. Perkins is clearly a better player than joel imo, you have yet to show me something to make me think otherwise.

Also, ortg and drtg are not good stats to use because they are affected by the other players on the floor.

Perkins isn't a good rebounder though and is way too slow to do all the hedging and running around our bigs have to do. At least his claim to fame was at one point defending post up bigs well, he can't even do that anymore. Perkins and Joel are both so bad offensively that Perkins' slight edge means almost nothing. I thought you said we were using stats, I gave you stats, now it seems like you're the one using the "eye test."

I gave you on/off as well as individual ortg/drtg, enough to eliminate any noise. His RAPM is awful as well, none of these statistics back him up. Joel's RAPM has been consistently better over the last few years, his individual ortg/drtgs are better and his on/offs are better. What more do you want?

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #1138 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:15 pm

Slot Machine wrote:
Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Slot Machine wrote:Take a gander at some of these on/off stats.

2013 playoffs: OKC's ORTG dropped 17.2 points when he was on the floor as opposed to when he was on the bench. OKC's DRTG was slightly better when he was on the bench.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

2010-2011 Perkins: 94 ORTG 105 DRTG
2011-2012 Perkins: 96 ORTG 103 DRTG
2012-2013 Perkins: 94 ORTG 102 DRTG

2010-2011 Anthony: 120 ORTG 104 DRTG
2011-2012 Anthony: 113 ORTG 100 DRTG
2012-2013 Anthony: 108 ORTG 103 DRTG

Per 36 minutes, Perkins averages .6 more points on worse FG%. Perkins is abysmal defensively and offensively whereas Joel can come in for a few minutes and at least blow up a few pick and rolls. Perkins can't defend anybody anymore, he got embarrassed in the post by both Z-Bo and Gasol, and post defense is his supposed specialty. Perkins somehow managed a negative PER in the playoffs this year. He is terrible.

Perkins would ahve played a totally different role on the heat, only having to play 15min a game and grab some boards and defending. Not to mention brooks did a terrible job utilizing perkins. Perkins is clearly a better player than joel imo, you have yet to show me something to make me think otherwise.

Also, ortg and drtg are not good stats to use because they are affected by the other players on the floor.

Perkins isn't a good rebounder though and is way too slow to do all the hedging and running around our bigs have to do. At least his claim to fame was at one point defending post up bigs well, he can't even do that anymore. Perkins and Joel are both so bad offensively that Perkins' slight edge means almost nothing. I thought you said we were using stats, I gave you stats, now it seems like you're the one using the "eye test."

I gave you on/off as well as individual ortg/drtg, enough to eliminate any noise. His RAPM is awful as well, none of these statistics back him up. Joel's RAPM has been consistently better over the last few years, his individual ortg/drtgs are better and his on/offs are better. What more do you want?

You make a fair case, I still think perkins is the better player.

RexBoyWonder · Post #1139 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:18 pm

Joel can be a useful player if used correctly in LIMITED minutes. He not even close to being "worst in NBA".

Some of the hate here is just idiotic.

LikeABosh · Post #1140 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:27 pm

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:What games are you watching? Joel anthony wouldn't play on any other team in this league.

Because he's not getting paid 10 million, he wasn't traded for Jeff Green, and he didn't have one good series against Howard. The only reason Perkins is getting any playing time is because he has a ridiculous reputation of a low post defender/enforcer and what Presti gave up to acquire him obligates Brooks to play him. People say Perkins and they think "Oh, he was a starting center on a championship celtics team. He has a veteran presence." It's a load of horse ****

Heat_Fan_87 wrote: Perkins can catch a basketball.

Not exactly his strong suit

Heat_Fan_87 wrote: he can defend bigger players

He can defend bigger post players. He's terrible guarding the pick and roll and he's terrible guarding big men who have any kind of midrange game. Like I said, he's useless unless you have to guard Dwight Howard.

And you're acting like Joel hasn't defended bigger players before. He did a great job on Hibbert when Bosh went down. Look how much better off we were when Joel was guarding Hibbert compared to Bosh:

Bosh guarding Hibbert: 22/10 56%
Joel guarding Hibbert: 12/12 48%

We can even go back to the 2011 playoffs and talk about how relieved we were when Joel came off the bench. We weren't a complete team then, but Joel was loads better than any other center we had

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:he can score around the rim.

Perkins cannot score around the rim. Funny you should say "use stats, don't rely on the eye test" when the stats say Joel has been a better finisher at the rim than Perkins has been during his time in OKC.

Last 3 years - Joel: 66% at the rim
Last 3 years - Perkins 61% at the rim

I'll be fair and say Perkins has gotten in 1 more attempt at the rim per game so that could skew his efficiency numbers but the point remains - they both suck at the rim

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

I am going to use stats.

No, you didn't use stats. You linked me to a page that displays stats and you left me to do the explaining

I could also post that article about Joel that says he made us one of the better rim protecting teams in the league when he was on the court, but I'm not sure I remember the report. I think Mopper might know

I'm also pretty sure Perkins is the first player to ever register a negative per for a starting player in the playoffs. No easy feat

Edit: What the hell were you thinking posting that page? Joel in 9 minutes is now being equally compared to Perkins in 25 minutes? You're better than that