OffSeason Free Agent Thread...Let's build a DYNASTY! 2.0

Time4War · Post #1141 » by **Time4War** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:05 am

Must improve the starting 5. Can't have stone hands starting again.

HoosierCane03 · Post #1142 » by **HoosierCane03** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:14 am

A center will shake free late in the FA cycle. Always happens. Someone will get bought out, released, etc., etc.

Post #1143 » by **mopper8** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:30 am

I still for the life of me don't get why people hate on Joel or don't want him to start.

Mario - Wade - Lebron - Bosh - Joel outscored opponents by an average of 10 points/100 possessions. That's fantastic, that's crushing teams.

People on this forum loved Turiaf (so did I), but that same group, subbing Ronny in for Joel, was significantly worse (actually outscored on the whole).

LikeABosh · Post #1144 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:35 am

mopper8 wrote:I still for the life of me don't get why people hate on Joel or don't want him to start.

Mario - Wade - Lebron - Bosh - Joel outscored opponents by an average of 10 points/100 possessions. That's fantastic, that's crushing teams.

People on this forum loved Turiaf (so did I), but that same group, subbing Ronny in for Joel, was significantly worse (actually outscored on the whole).

I agree that joel is very underrated. People are forgetting that during the 2011 playoffs, we looked forward to joel and chalmers coming off the bench after bibby-big z stunk it up in the starting line up.

I still prefer him coming off the bench though.

GreenHat · Post #1145 » by **GreenHat** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:39 am

GameTime_3 wrote:This team just needs to find a Center. Please trade Joel and bring me a big man. That is all. If we can find that piece, we are almost unstoppable.

So why is a team going to trade us a center that you deem good enough for the center you deem not good enough?

Does that make any sense for them? It's not like Joel is an expiring contract that they can use to clear space.

The other team has to have some kind of incentive.

LikeABosh · Post #1146 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:41 am

GreenHat wrote:
GameTime_3 wrote:This team just needs to find a Center. Please trade Joel and bring me a big man. That is all. If we can find that piece, we are almost unstoppable.

So why is a team going to trade us a center that you deem good enough for the center you deem not good enough?

Does that make any sense for them? It's not like Joel is an expiring contract that they can use to clear space.

The other team has to have some kind of incentive.

Like a 1st round pick?

RexBoyWonder · Post #1147 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:47 am

I've asked around about a trade landing us Emeka Okafor, which i believe can be a decent starting Center for us.

Heat out : Joel Antony + Mike Miller + Cash$ + Philly's 2013 first round draft pick (~#16)

For

Wizards out : Emeka Okafor

Most observers believed that our package isn't quite good enough at this point in time, but if during the season we'll really feel the need to get a Center, i think we could get it done if we add Cole or a future pick or JJ, the gap isn't big.

i just really hope Dwight doesn't end up in brooklyn, that would make it easier for us to succeed without a quality Center.

LikeABosh · Post #1148 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:51 am

I never really cared for okafor

GreenHat · Post #1149 » by **GreenHat** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:53 am

mopper8 wrote:I still for the life of me don't get why people hate on Joel or don't want him to start.

Mario - Wade - Lebron - Bosh - Joel outscored opponents by an average of 10 points/100 possessions. That's fantastic, that's crushing teams.

People on this forum loved Turiaf (so did I), but that same group, subbing Ronny in for Joel, was significantly worse (actually outscored on the whole).

I don't get it either.

People will pack Joel's bags and drive him to the airport in a trade for Camby but Cole and his literal handful of good games is untouchable and can't be included in any trade.

Joel is an elite defender in several different facets of defense and our offense is great with him because he doesn't steal shots from Lebron/Wade/Bosh and the three point shooters.

Cole hurts our offense because he can't shoot from the pg spot (outside of a handful of games) and despite his quickness its not showing up on the defensive end either.

You can hope those things suddenly improve for a player going into his age 24 season and he becomes a serviceable player. Joel already is that.

While we agree on Joel I would quibble with your comparison to the Turiaf lineup based on only 46 minutes of action, especially with how good Chalmers-Battier-James-Bosh-Turiaf was in similar minutes (somehow its literally both our best offense and defense out of top 20 5 man units even without Wade). Not a big difference between 46 minutes and 33.

Obviously I know that you know the variance over small slices of minutes so just pointing it out not trying to correct.

GreenHat · Post #1150 » by **GreenHat** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:54 am

LikeABosh wrote:
mopper8 wrote:I still for the life of me don't get why people hate on Joel or don't want him to start.

Mario - Wade - Lebron - Bosh - Joel outscored opponents by an average of 10 points/100 possessions. That's fantastic, that's crushing teams.

People on this forum loved Turiaf (so did I), but that same group, subbing Ronny in for Joel, was significantly worse (actually outscored on the whole).

I agree that joel is very underrated. People are forgetting that during the 2011 playoffs, we looked forward to joel and chalmers coming off the bench after bibby-big z stunk it up in the starting line up.

I still prefer him coming off the bench though.

I still can't believe we had Bibby starting all the way up into the finals

GreenHat · Post #1151 » by **GreenHat** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:59 am

LikeABosh wrote:
GreenHat wrote:
GameTime_3 wrote:This team just needs to find a Center. Please trade Joel and bring me a big man. That is all. If we can find that piece, we are almost unstoppable.

So why is a team going to trade us a center that you deem good enough for the center you deem not good enough?

Does that make any sense for them? It's not like Joel is an expiring contract that they can use to clear space.

The other team has to have some kind of incentive.

Like a 1st round pick?

A lottery pick sure.

A lottery protected pick probably not.

Think about it like this:

A team wants to upgrade their shooting guard and they calls us up and want to trade us their shooting guard and a non-lotto pick for Wade. How good would that shooting guard have to be for it to be a fair trade?

What about Lebron and small forwards? Or Bosh and power forwards?

Those players have to be almost as good if not better for you to do the trade, right? Thats how much value a non-lotto pick usually has.

We aren't trying to get a center as good as them but remember centers are the rarest position and Joel probably isn't close to as good as the players you would want for us to take a downgrade.

LikeABosh · Post #1152 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:59 am

GreenHat wrote:
I still can't believe we had Bibby starting all the way up into the finals

I know, it's crazy. Thank god for chalmers

Also, I can't believe we had 2 starters in the last 3 years have some of worst playoff performances of all time. Bibby with his PER of 1 and Jermaine with his FG% of 16%

GreenHat · Post #1153 » by **GreenHat** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:02 am

RexBoyWonder wrote:I've asked around about a trade landing us Emeka Okafor, which i believe can be a decent starting Center for us.

Heat out : Joel Antony + Mike Miller + Cash$ + Philly's 2013 first round draft pick (~#16)

For

Wizards out : Emeka Okafor

Most observers believed that our package isn't quite good enough at this point in time, but if during the season we'll really feel the need to get a Center, i think we could get it done if we add Cole or a future pick or JJ, the gap isn't big.

i just really hope Dwight doesn't end up in brooklyn, that would make it easier for us to succeed without a quality Center.

I think the gap is bigger than you think. Miller's contract kills it. Its even longer than Okafor's. They are better off trading Okafor as a 14.5 million expiring contract next year who can still be a useful player than taking this package.

FlashFlare · Post #1154 » by **FlashFlare** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:12 am

LikeABosh wrote:
GreenHat wrote:
I still can't believe we had Bibby starting all the way up into the finals

I know, it's crazy. Thank god for chalmers

Also, I can't believe we had 2 starters in the last 3 years have some of worst playoff performances of all time. Bibby with his PER of 1 and Jermaine with his FG% of 16%

JO shall never be in a Heat uni again... 2010 playoffs first round was basically 4 on 6... :nonono:

As for Bibby, either Spo was clueless or just stubborn.

Vampire Diaries · Post #1155 » by **Vampire Diaries** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:14 am

Am I the only one who was expecting some Rashard Lewis announcement tonight? do they just not announce stuff on sundays? whats the deal here?

LikeABosh · Post #1156 » by **LikeABosh** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:17 am

GreenHat wrote:
A lottery pick sure.

A lottery protected pick probably not.

Think about it like this:

A team wants to upgrade their shooting guard and they calls us up and want to trade us their shooting guard and a non-lotto pick for Wade. How good would that shooting guard have to be for it to be a fair trade?

What about Lebron and small forwards? Or Bosh and power forwards?

Those players have to be almost as good if not better for you to do the trade, right? Thats how much value a non-lotto pick usually has.

We aren't trying to get a center as good as them but remember centers are the rarest position and Joel probably isn't close to as good as the players you would want for us to take a downgrade.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not expecting to get a like Okafor with our pick. I just want to get a rotational big. Honestly, I'd be happy with Turiaf returning, That way I know if we ever face Howard-led team in the playoffs, I don't have to worry about Bosh having to guard him.

FlashFlare · Post #1157 » by **FlashFlare** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:18 am

Vampire Diaries wrote:Am I the only one who was expecting some Rashard Lewis announcement tonight? do they just know announce stuff on sundays? whats the deal here?

My feeling is either late tonight, kind of like the Ray Allen announcement a couple days ago, or tomorrow morning.

YounG_A · Post #1158 » by **YounG_A** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:25 am

@SedanoShow
Rashard Lewis still meeting with #HEAT Also, Raja Bell interested in playing with Miami via Woj

posted 21 mins ago

I think Ray's meeting/dinner lasted until like 11:30pm

MartyCONLONNN · Post #1159 » by **MartyCONLONNN** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:57 am

On the topic of Joel, I like him and what he brings to the team as a situational center... remember he played really well against the Bulls hedging well on D-Rose making it difficult on their offense, and somewhat matching Joakim's energy. He also does really well on quick forwards like Amare. I love him as a pick and roll defender. For our system he's more than adequate.

I think Tim on this board put it the best when he pointed out that when playoff time comes and we become tighter on our rotations and more aggressive/swarm the post more in general... that it brings out the best qualities in Joel and doesn't leave him on and island in a way synching up with the energy and movement that he provides.

Now as a starter? I feel that with the much more shored up and consistent perimeter threats of Ray, Battier, and now maybe Lewis, Joel's lack of being an offensive threat hurts us less than it did. Especially in year one. At this point our only "weakness" is length like everyone's been saying but that can only truly continue to be considered a real weakness as long as we somehow don't think our perimeter depth of Lebron Wade Ray Chalmers and Battier can outweigh it. And in almost every case, on paper at least, that is pretty likely.

Post #1160 » by **mopper8** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 3:10 am

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt
Agent for Rashard Lewis says "everything went well" w/Heat, but process will continue this week before decision. Hawks, Knicks still in it.