**NBA Draft Discussion 2025**

[twix2500]

Nevermind I am stepping back. I will let you argue with the teams scouts, and tell them he is as good of a prospect as Luka, Harden, Ricky Rubio, Lonzo Ball, Lamelo Ball etc and he should be top five lotto pick.

I am moving on

Projection, deflection and distraction. You hit the big 3 in 2 sentences!

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--ricky-rubio

So where YOU have Saraf ranked in this draft. I dont care about your critique of my critique. Put up or hush up. Give me YOUR critique of Saraf. Where do you have him ranked in this draft and WHY?

[greg4012]

Nevermind I am stepping back. I will let you argue with the teams scouts, and tell them he is as good of a prospect as Luka, Harden, Ricky Rubio, Lonzo Ball, Lamelo Ball etc and he should be top five lotto pick.

I am moving on

Projection, deflection and distraction. You hit the big 3 in 2 sentences!

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--ricky-rubio

So where YOU have Saraf ranked in this draft. I dont care about your critique of my critique. Put up or hush up. Give me YOUR critique of Saraf. Where do you have him ranked in this draft and WHY?

I have him right around 15-20th best prospect in this draft in a tier with the likes of Jase Richardson and Rasheer Fleming
Cedric Coward, and Adou Thiero.

What I like:

- Plus positional size (PG game with a 6'5+ frame and reported 6'8 wingspan)
- Functional athleticism and body control (great deceleration and speed manipulation onball)
- Paint penetration (3rd best self-created rim frequency among guards in this class while arguably playing toughest comp)
- Floor game/vision
- Transition game
- Scoring upside
- Offball defense (always producing steals at a plus rate)
- Spot-up shooting - high release; good track record shooting C&S 3s (got less of them this year as lead guard at Ulm)

What I question:
- Left-hand dominant - need to see continued progression with right hand finishing and passing
- Questionable shooting profile - he's mostly shot onball pull-up 3s this season and has not produced. I have hope in development here bc hes over 40% in pull-up 2s and is hovering 40% on C&S 3s.
- Explosiveness--does he have the burst to regularly gain advantage and foot speed to defend PGs?
- Rim finishing

There isn't one standalone prospect that I'm banging the table for in Miami's likely range. They all have plenty of warts. Some have safer floors with limited avenues to upside. Some of them have shaky floors with more interesting upside cases. Saraf is somewhere in the middle of that spectrum for me.

If his 3ball never comes around, then its hard to see how he warrants adding value as a ballhandling guard (maybe TJ McConnell/Ricky Rubio floor game?). I understand that is where your reservations primarily reside. Wish I had an answer as to how it will definitively play out. Stylistically, he looks a bit like Dragic in playstyle (more size, maybe less burst). Dragic's 3 ball was crucial to opening up his game. Dragic's shooting profile at this stage was clearly worse. But, can't just expect every bad shooting profile to convert to a good NBA shooter. That's the struggle with drafting 20th.

But, I'm also more encouraged by the potential for things like:
(1) his positional defense as a big PG that should be able to bump with SGs and some wings);
(2) his offball scoring flashes (less showcased as the lone go-to ballhandler/playmaker for his team)
(3) creation via paint penetration

Overall, Saraf has one of the better creator profiles in this draft and is probably the best creator prospect likely to be in Miami's range. Now, is reaching for a prospect bc his upside case fits a need always the right play? IDK--you can easily waste a pick like that. But, more likely than not, the 20th pick isn't someone that you end up relying on unfortunately.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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[twix2500]

Here some throwback for fun

Watch on YouTube

[MettaWorldPanda]

Suns worked out Danny Wolf. They will be looking to draft a Center. Might be a spot to trade back.

[lastb1ckman]

Suns worked out Danny Wolf. They will be looking to draft a Center. Might be a spot to trade back.

Aw man I hope they don't draft Danny Wolf. I know they need a center, but they need a rim protector. That's one thing he ain't. He'd get exposed bad.

[lastb1ckman]

What ever happened to that guy that swore I was wrong about Aleksej Pokusevski? This is why I stay out of saying anything about a Euro player. They try to create some loophole narative for a Euro player. I got jumped when I said Mario Hezonja was a low IQ player prospect.

Are there less similar cases than Pokusevski and Saraf?? You really should work hard to find...

Literally the only similarity is that they are young Europeans. Pokusevski played for Olympiacos 2nd team in Greece 2nd league (even there he wasn't really great), he played like in 2 or 3 games for Olympiacos -main team all in garbage minutes. He also scored 10 ppg in Euro U18 on bad efficiency.

He had zero accomplishments and was selected solely based on potential (7 ft guy with some guard skills and can shoot... a bit).

I never liked Hezonija by the way for simple reason that he couldn't really get into Barcelona rotation. Once again his selection was mostly on potential - he scored efficiently and was clearly good athlete, so the fact that he played 15 min per game scoring less than 6 ppg (with 1.1 ast/1.1 to) was overlooked

I understand that people tend to pile all Europeans together but really there's little similarity between Saraf and Hezonija, while Saraf and Pokusevski are really direct opposite situations.

One guy that scares me is in this exact situation. Hugo Gonzalez. He hasn't gotten consistent minutes all season for Real Madrid, but he seems to be slowly climbing up boards atm. A couple of the guys at five reasons seem to have taken a liking to him. Talking him up as a skilled, athletic 3&D wing. Thats all an good, but im wary of getting excited for a guy that can't force minutes in Europe. How often does that work out in the NBA?

[arusinov]

What ever happened to that guy that swore I was wrong about Aleksej Pokusevski? This is why I stay out of saying anything about a Euro player. They try to create some loophole narative for a Euro player. I got jumped when I said Mario Hezonja was a low IQ player prospect.

Are there less similar cases than Pokusevski and Saraf?? You really should work hard to find...

Literally the only similarity is that they are young Europeans. Pokusevski played for Olympiacos 2nd team in Greece 2nd league (even there he wasn't really great), he played like in 2 or 3 games for Olympiacos -main team all in garbage minutes. He also scored 10 ppg in Euro U18 on bad efficiency.

He had zero accomplishments and was selected solely based on potential (7 ft guy with some guard skills and can shoot... a bit).

I never liked Hezonija by the way for simple reason that he couldn't really get into Barcelona rotation. Once again his selection was mostly on potential - he scored efficiently and was clearly good athlete, so the fact that he played 15 min per game scoring less than 6 ppg (with 1.1 ast/1.1 to) was overlooked

I understand that people tend to pile all Europeans together but really there's little similarity between Saraf and Hezonija, while Saraf and Pokusevski are really direct opposite situations.

One guy that scares me is in this exact situation. Hugo Gonzalez. He hasn't gotten consistent minutes all season for Real Madrid, but he seems to be slowly climbing up boards atm. A couple of the guys at five reasons seem to have taken a liking to him. Talking him up as a skilled, athletic 3&D wing. Thats all an good, but im wary of getting excited for a guy that can't force minutes in Europe. How often does that work out in the NBA?

Yes. Precisely. For some reason he is in same range as Saraf while Saraf having great season... and Gonzales playing 11 min and scoring 3.6 pts per game (not even efficiently). He also shot 21% from 3P on Euro U18 (and his team was eliminated by Israel and Saraf in playoff). Yes, it's hard to get into EuroLeague team rotation - but it's not last NBA draft. He shouldn't be in 1st round discussion, then he would stay another year in Real and prove himseld (or not)...

It may end like in Dragan Bender case. Bender played in Maccabi barely 13 min per game with 4.5 ppg on average efficiency, not much rebounds, assists, not good defense. Very raw player, almost unplayable even in Israeli league... Then Suns for whatever reason (and total shock to everyone who have seen him playing for Maccabi) took him 4th overall. And when he failed - it was yet another "oh! those European busts"

[greg4012]

Here some throwback for fun

Watch on YouTube

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

[RexBoyWonder]

Here some throwback for fun

Watch on YouTube

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

World wide scouting changed a lot since then - There's a lot less "hidden gems" that fall under the radar like that now days.

I do see a little Dragic In Saraf's game, I just whish he was a bit more quick and explosive. I think that's what set Dragic Apart.

They do share the shiftiness and body control.

[RexBoyWonder]

Here some throwback for fun

Watch on YouTube

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

World wide scouting changed a lot since then - There's a lot less "hidden gems" that fall under the radar like that now days.

I do see a little Dragic In Saraf's game, I just whish he was a bit more quick and explosive. I think that's what set Dragic Apart.

They do share the shiftiness and body control.

Seeing Dragic's improvement as a shooter despite coming on late (22YO) is kind of surprising to me.

If I saw a 22YO guards nowadays with those %, I would be very nervous about getting him.

I wonder how unusual Dragic's improvement is.

I do think player development has gotten much better the last few decades so It's less common for a 22YO with talent to still be that far away from his shooting potential, I f you get what i Mean.

[lastb1ckman]

Here some throwback for fun

Watch on YouTube

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

Kinda related, I get kinda irritated when people compare euros to Dragic. People always forget that peak Dragic was a speed demon that turned the corner and did magic below the rim in the paint. Strong too and finished through contact. A lot of these guys like Saraf, that element is their biggest question mark. (I do like Saraf a lot tho, and I hope the heat seriously look at him). If anything Nolan Traore strikes me as the guy that matches his game the most except with the finishing at the rim. That might just be the fact he's young compared to when Dragic was drafted and is playing against grown men.

[greg4012]

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

World wide scouting changed a lot since then - There's a lot less "hidden gems" that fall under the radar like that now days.

I do see a little Dragic In Saraf's game, I just whish he was a bit more quick and explosive. I think that's what set Dragic Apart.

They do share the shiftiness and body control.

Seeing Dragic's improvement as a shooter despite coming on late (22YO) is kind of surprising to me.

If I saw a 22YO guards nowadays with those %, I would be very nervous about getting him.

I wonder how unusual Dragic's improvement is.

I do think player development has gotten much better the last few decades so It's less common for a 22YO with talent to still be that far away from his shooting potential, I f you get what i Mean.

I think only looking at 3pt% for 18-19 year olds to make definitive determinations about their shooting prowess is an easy trap to avoid.

Improvement in skill areas isn't linear. There are multiple prospects in this draft that aren't good 3 pt shooters today that I believe have good chances to be average or better in the NBA. There are also some players in this draft that I believe have shaky profiles despite a good looking 3pt %.

If a player is hitting C&S 3s at good rate, has a good FT%, is hitting midrange pullups, and shooting 3s at a decent rate, I'm usually optimistic. Especially if you can identify easy-to-fix balance or mechanical issues on pull-up 3s that lead to inconsistency in shot.

[lastb1ckman]

World wide scouting changed a lot since then - There's a lot less "hidden gems" that fall under the radar like that now days.

I do see a little Dragic In Saraf's game, I just whish he was a bit more quick and explosive. I think that's what set Dragic Apart.

They do share the shiftiness and body control.

Seeing Dragic's improvement as a shooter despite coming on late (22YO) is kind of surprising to me.

If I saw a 22YO guards nowadays with those %, I would be very nervous about getting him.

I wonder how unusual Dragic's improvement is.

I do think player development has gotten much better the last few decades so It's less common for a 22YO with talent to still be that far away from his shooting potential, I f you get what i Mean.

I think only looking at 3pt% for 18-19 year olds to make definitive determinations about their shooting prowess is an easy trap to avoid.

Improvement in skill areas isn't linear. There are multiple prospects in this draft that aren't good 3 pt shooters today that I believe have good chances to be average or better in the NBA. There are also some players in this draft that I believe have shaky profiles despite a good looking 3pt %.

If a player is hitting C&S 3s at good rate, has a good FT%, is hitting midrange pullups, and shooting 3s at a decent rate, I'm usually optimistic. Especially if you can identify easy-to-fix balance or mechanical issues on pull-up 3s that lead to inconsistency in shot.

Another thing to watch is where in the play they get the ball. If all they get are grenades at the end of the shot clock, they probably aint getting good shots off.

[greg4012]

Here some throwback for fun

Watch on YouTube

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

Kinda related, I get kinda irritated when people compare euros to Dragic. People always forget that peak Dragic was a speed demon that turned the corner and did magic below the rim in the paint. Strong too and finished through contact. A lot of these guys like Saraf, that element is their biggest question mark. (I do like Saraf a lot tho, and I hope the heat seriously look at him). If anything Nolan Traore strikes me as the guy that matches his game the most except with the finishing at the rim. That might just be the fact he's young compared to when Dragic was drafted and is playing against grown men.

I find many fans on here too often compare prospects/players to past Heat players just bc that's what they're most familiar with. It often seems lazy to me.

I definitely don't think Saraf and Dragic are identical prospects, at all. I was mostly referencing him as a familiar point of context as it seems most struggle to translate Euro production and prospecting to the NBA. But, it's pretty clear that there are some stylistic similarities to the type of floor game they play--how they prod a defense, focus on getting into the paint, success pushing in transition, etc. Saraf's transition FG% is over 60%. He gets into the paint to create FGAs more than any guard in this class after Harper and Fears. Def needs to finish better (just like Fears and Traore and most 19 year old guard prospects).

Definitely not apples to apples. I think people pretend Dragic was some athletic specimen when he won more with change of speed in short bursts paired with craft than he did with pure speed.

I do wonder what this board would be saying about Goran Dragic as a prospect 17 years ago...

[greg4012]

Seeing Dragic's improvement as a shooter despite coming on late (22YO) is kind of surprising to me.

If I saw a 22YO guards nowadays with those %, I would be very nervous about getting him.

I wonder how unusual Dragic's improvement is.

I do think player development has gotten much better the last few decades so It's less common for a 22YO with talent to still be that far away from his shooting potential, I f you get what i Mean.

I think only looking at 3pt% for 18-19 year olds to make definitive determinations about their shooting prowess is an easy trap to avoid.

Improvement in skill areas isn't linear. There are multiple prospects in this draft that aren't good 3 pt shooters today that I believe have good chances to be average or better in the NBA. There are also some players in this draft that I believe have shaky profiles despite a good looking 3pt %.

If a player is hitting C&S 3s at good rate, has a good FT%, is hitting midrange pullups, and shooting 3s at a decent rate, I'm usually optimistic. Especially if you can identify easy-to-fix balance or mechanical issues on pull-up 3s that lead to inconsistency in shot.

Another thing to watch is where in the play they get the ball. If all they get are grenades at the end of the shot clock, they probably aint getting good shots off.

Agreed--also splits of onball vs offball looks. If the majority of your 3PA are onball self-created looks, that is almost universally a lower percentage look than an open C&S one. With that said, the modern NBA lead guard NEEDS to develop to be at least a threat on pull-up 3s. But, it's easy to fall into a Justise Winslow trap when he shot 40%+ in college on super low volume mostly on C&S corner 3s.

[lastb1ckman]

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

Kinda related, I get kinda irritated when people compare euros to Dragic. People always forget that peak Dragic was a speed demon that turned the corner and did magic below the rim in the paint. Strong too and finished through contact. A lot of these guys like Saraf, that element is their biggest question mark. (I do like Saraf a lot tho, and I hope the heat seriously look at him). If anything Nolan Traore strikes me as the guy that matches his game the most except with the finishing at the rim. That might just be the fact he's young compared to when Dragic was drafted and is playing against grown men.

I find many fans on here too often compare prospects/players to past Heat players just bc that's what they're most familiar with. It often seems lazy to me.

I definitely don't think Saraf and Dragic are identical prospects, at all. I was mostly referencing him as a familiar point of context as it seems most struggle to translate Euro production and prospecting to the NBA. But, it's pretty clear that there are some stylistic similarities to the type of floor game they play--how they prod a defense, focus on getting into the paint, success pushing in transition, etc. Saraf's transition FG% is over 60%. He gets into the paint to create FGAs more than any guard in this class after Harper and Fears. Def needs to finish better (just like Fears and Traore and most 19 year old guard prospects).

Definitely not apples to apples. I think people pretend Dragic was some athletic specimen when he won more with change of speed in short bursts paired with craft than he did with pure speed.

I do wonder what this board would be saying about Goran Dragic as a prospect 17 years ago...

Oh man.....the same group now? A lot of us wouldn't be excited about a 22 year old below the rim guard with shaky shooting. I'd be skeptical too. The fact he became an allstar/all nba level player is amazing.

[twix2500]

Good reminder as to the time and patience it takes to get the value from most Guard prospects. Goran was drafted in 2008 as a 22 year old, coming off a season in the Slovenian League where he averaged 10 ppg and 3 assists in 28 mpg (shooting 50% FG, 27% from 3, 70% FT). Goran started his NBA career as a 22 year old rookie and it took until his age 25 season to be a double digit scorer in the NBA.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ben-saraf--goran-dragic

Kinda related, I get kinda irritated when people compare euros to Dragic. People always forget that peak Dragic was a speed demon that turned the corner and did magic below the rim in the paint. Strong too and finished through contact. A lot of these guys like Saraf, that element is their biggest question mark. (I do like Saraf a lot tho, and I hope the heat seriously look at him). If anything Nolan Traore strikes me as the guy that matches his game the most except with the finishing at the rim. That might just be the fact he's young compared to when Dragic was drafted and is playing against grown men.

I find many fans on here too often compare prospects/players to past Heat players just bc that's what they're most familiar with. It often seems lazy to me.

I definitely don't think Saraf and Dragic are identical prospects, at all. I was mostly referencing him as a familiar point of context as it seems most struggle to translate Euro production and prospecting to the NBA. But, it's pretty clear that there are some stylistic similarities to the type of floor game they play--how they prod a defense, focus on getting into the paint, success pushing in transition, etc. Saraf's transition FG% is over 60%. He gets into the paint to create FGAs more than any guard in this class after Harper and Fears. Def needs to finish better (just like Fears and Traore and most 19 year old guard prospects).

Definitely not apples to apples. I think people pretend Dragic was some athletic specimen when he won more with change of speed in short bursts paired with craft than he did with pure speed.

I do wonder what this board would be saying about Goran Dragic as a prospect 17 years ago...

I agree Dragic and Saraf are not similar talents. Many on here get caught up on looks. And recently bias of the old bad knee dragic when his IQ was peak not his physical attributes. Dragic had to become a shooter because he was starting to lose his speed. When Dragic was a prospect the key attribute that got him NBA attention was elite speed and his ability to finish. Also NBA offenses were different so how ie point guards were used is not how ie point guards are used today. Dragic was a weaker prospect prototype like John Wall, speed and running fullcourt. Saraf best attribute is his size like SGA, and the Balls. Luka would be the generational prototype like Magic. I don't like comparing generational talents to other players.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[lastb1ckman]

Kinda related, I get kinda irritated when people compare euros to Dragic. People always forget that peak Dragic was a speed demon that turned the corner and did magic below the rim in the paint. Strong too and finished through contact. A lot of these guys like Saraf, that element is their biggest question mark. (I do like Saraf a lot tho, and I hope the heat seriously look at him). If anything Nolan Traore strikes me as the guy that matches his game the most except with the finishing at the rim. That might just be the fact he's young compared to when Dragic was drafted and is playing against grown men.

I find many fans on here too often compare prospects/players to past Heat players just bc that's what they're most familiar with. It often seems lazy to me.

I definitely don't think Saraf and Dragic are identical prospects, at all. I was mostly referencing him as a familiar point of context as it seems most struggle to translate Euro production and prospecting to the NBA. But, it's pretty clear that there are some stylistic similarities to the type of floor game they play--how they prod a defense, focus on getting into the paint, success pushing in transition, etc. Saraf's transition FG% is over 60%. He gets into the paint to create FGAs more than any guard in this class after Harper and Fears. Def needs to finish better (just like Fears and Traore and most 19 year old guard prospects).

Definitely not apples to apples. I think people pretend Dragic was some athletic specimen when he won more with change of speed in short bursts paired with craft than he did with pure speed.

I do wonder what this board would be saying about Goran Dragic as a prospect 17 years ago...

I agree Dragic and Saraf are not similar talents. Many on here get caught up on looks. And recently bias of the old bad knee dragic when his IQ was peak not his physical attributes. Dragic had to become a shooter because he was starting to lose his speed. When Dragic was a prospect the key attribute that got him NBA attention was elite speed and his ability to finish. Also NBA offenses were different so how ie point guards were used is not how ie point guards are used today. Dragic was a weaker prospect prototype like John Wall, speed and running fullcourt. Saraf best attribute is his size like SGA, and the Balls. Luka would be the generational prototype like Magic. I don't like comparing generational talents to other players.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

He ain't Dragic, but the fact he's producing on a playoff team is about all I need to want him on the Heat. Let us fix his shot and he'll be Herro's running mate in a few seasons.

Traoe also seems to be adjusting and contributing to a veteran team, I'd be happy with him too. Get some elite speed at the 1 again finally.

[greg4012]

Kinda related, I get kinda irritated when people compare euros to Dragic. People always forget that peak Dragic was a speed demon that turned the corner and did magic below the rim in the paint. Strong too and finished through contact. A lot of these guys like Saraf, that element is their biggest question mark. (I do like Saraf a lot tho, and I hope the heat seriously look at him). If anything Nolan Traore strikes me as the guy that matches his game the most except with the finishing at the rim. That might just be the fact he's young compared to when Dragic was drafted and is playing against grown men.

I find many fans on here too often compare prospects/players to past Heat players just bc that's what they're most familiar with. It often seems lazy to me.

I definitely don't think Saraf and Dragic are identical prospects, at all. I was mostly referencing him as a familiar point of context as it seems most struggle to translate Euro production and prospecting to the NBA. But, it's pretty clear that there are some stylistic similarities to the type of floor game they play--how they prod a defense, focus on getting into the paint, success pushing in transition, etc. Saraf's transition FG% is over 60%. He gets into the paint to create FGAs more than any guard in this class after Harper and Fears. Def needs to finish better (just like Fears and Traore and most 19 year old guard prospects).

Definitely not apples to apples. I think people pretend Dragic was some athletic specimen when he won more with change of speed in short bursts paired with craft than he did with pure speed.

I do wonder what this board would be saying about Goran Dragic as a prospect 17 years ago...

Oh man.....the same group now? A lot of us wouldn't be excited about a 22 year old below the rim guard with shaky shooting. I'd be skeptical too. The fact he became an allstar/all nba level player is amazing.

Def took a lot of patience. Hard to maintain that perspective over time.