2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1

[3ammy3uck3ts]

lol Listen to any neutral NBA analyst and they all had Siakam as the 2nd best player on that roster. You can't change stuff to fit narratives

I promise I'm not changing any stuff. I just don't subordinate my NBA watching experience and analysis to talking heads trying to prop up narratives and get views and clicks. There is a reason that Toronto fans universally call Kyle Lowry their GROAT (Greatest Raptor Of All Time). Why don't you go ask them the pecking order of impact in that playoff run? Or should they be dismissed as well for the likes of Kendrick Perkins and Reggie Miller?

I don't consider Perkins or Miller analysts. The guys on TV are entertainers. I am talking about the podcast guys like Zach Lowe.

We can argue until we’re blue in the face but here are the facts:

1. Yes Siakam won a championship as his teams 2nd or more likely 3rd best player (2nd scoring option). Albeit it 3 major injuries to the Warriors and Kawhi being arguably the best player in the world helped but he still got it done and that can’t be taken away from him.

2. Bam has proven 3 times he can be the 2nd best player on teams that are either in the finals or 1 shot away from the finals competing for championships, even with a weak roster as we saw in 2023.

3. This team needs that true number 1 guy (Kawhi/Haliburton) and preferably a high level playmaker (Lowry/Haliburton) and we’re good to go with Bam as our 2nd best player.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We don’t have Giannis assets, unless we just completely blow it up, but for the first time in a long time we actually do have assets. Enough for an older KD for sure, I’d bet wherever he gets traded we can pretty easily throw together a package similar to what he went for.

[Vertical Limit]

The more I look at it the more I see the Spurs just getting the Durant deal done. If they draft Harper they really don't have any use for Vassell anymore. Barnes is an expiring contract. They can also help out the Suns by eating the rest of the 9 million in salary helping them further get away from the tax. Suns also get the 14th pick in this draft which should help them get a Center or a PG. Popovich loves Kevin Durant from what I've been researching. Wemby also calls him his inspiration. Barnes, Vassell, and 14th pick and possibly another asset or two looks to be the leader on the clubhouse.

Let’s get real any team that wants KD will have a way easier time than the Heat at acquiring him. It’s seems we as fans don’t see how bad of a situation we are asset wise. Other teams avoid adding Heat or former Heat players now more than ever seemingly

Im not making any moves this offseason that doesnt net us a top 10 player in their prime.

If durant comes, its because the Suns are willingly gifting him to us for me to be okay with it. We give up multiple firsts, when our cupboard is already dry of firsts, for old durant, and its going to bite us in the ass.

Im also not attaching any draft picks to get rid of a bad contract (Wiggins, Kyle), im so over that bull and we have done that too many times in the past. Stop taking in or giving bad contracts, period. Id rather Butler had rot in his condo for the remainder of the season than try to figure out how to get rid of wiggins and kyle

Offseason moves to make if no top player is available (giannis):

1. Dont extend herro, dont extend herro, dont extend herro.
2. Look for expirings for Kyle Andersen
3. Look for expirings for wiggins.
4. Dont extend Jovic.
5. Offer mitchell’s qo
6. Open trade conversations for everyone on the roster. We need to at least listen what teams are willing to offer. We dont have a single untradeable player on the team.

[greg4012]

lol Listen to any neutral NBA analyst and they all had Siakam as the 2nd best player on that roster. You can't change stuff to fit narratives

I promise I'm not changing any stuff. I just don't subordinate my NBA watching experience and analysis to talking heads trying to prop up narratives and get views and clicks. There is a reason that Toronto fans universally call Kyle Lowry their GROAT (Greatest Raptor Of All Time). Why don't you go ask them the pecking order of impact in that playoff run? Or should they be dismissed as well for the likes of Kendrick Perkins and Reggie Miller?

I don't consider Perkins or Miller analysts. The guys on TV are entertainers. I am talking about the podcast guys like Zach Lowe.

I very much respect Zach Lowe's opinion. Does he believe that Pascal Siakam had a higher level of impact than Kyle Lowry in the championship run?

Can you verify the math for me on the offense produced:

Lowry: 15 ppg and 6.6 apg (baseline of 28.2 ppg created--assuming all assists were 2-pters)
Siakam: 19 ppg and 2.8 apg (baseline of 24.6 ppg created--assuming all assists were 2-pters)

Here's a fun exercise, we can add in Bam's playoff stats from the 2 finals runs for comparison as that was the basis of this Siakam discussion:

2020: 17.8 ppg and 4.4 apg (baseline of 26.6 ppg created--assuming all assists were 2-pters)
2023: 17.9 ppg and 3.7 apg (baseline of 25.3 ppg created--assuming all assists were 2-pters)

So, what are you really penalizing Bam for in this discussion? The fact that he didn't play alongside Kawhi Leonard performing as the best player in the world? The fact that Dragic (his equivalent to Siakam's Lowry in 2020) got hurt in the finals? The fact that Herro missed the entire 2023 playoff run? The fact that Miami didn't have the benefit of Marc Gasol and Ibaka and added depth commensurate with Toronto?

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I'm with Greg in that I don't think Bam locks us into 8-10 seed mediocrity (I actually have faith this team can lose 55+ games with him lol) or that he can't help attract stars (I think he's a guy stars would actually love to play with, being unselfish and defense first and also a good passing big).

That said, I also agree with HFL that unless you already have "the man" on the roster, Bam at 50+ or whatever percent of the cap that is (because its still a max slot) is a tough pill to swallow, and makes things more difficult to navigate. It's just the nature of the beast when you have a build that is reliant on guys on different timelines (Jimmy/Bam), and then half that build leaves and you have to course correct on the fly.

I'm not one of those in favor of a blow-up style rebuild, but if Bam becomes desperate to leave (seems out of character for him but you never know), or some team is desperate and offers an insane package for him, then yeah you listen to offers. He's not untouchable, but I don't think we need to be looking to shop him, and he's a guy that can fit on almost any team you build even if he's not the centerpiece, which is a huge advantage for him.

Tyler's a lot trickier, especially since we have to make a decision on an extension for him. He's a guy you maybe get proactive shopping him around because of a sell high moment, but then he's probably sick of all the rumors the last 2 years, so it might have a real negative impact on the team as a whole if he continues to be on the chopping block. At the same time, he's not really given us anything to say we confidently want to marry him at a max salary level, either.

So probably the way you approach it is, Bam you keep the phoneline open but you aren't actively shopping him. Tyler same, but maybe you do shop him a bit if the right piece becomes available, but be sure about it because another Dame saga and Tyler may just check out on the team altogether. I also don't think letting Tyler walk is the worst thing in the world, I'm not one of those obsessed with cashing in value for a guy, since most of the league is overpaid already anyways.

[MartyCONLONNN]

The more I look at it the more I see the Spurs just getting the Durant deal done. If they draft Harper they really don't have any use for Vassell anymore. Barnes is an expiring contract. They can also help out the Suns by eating the rest of the 9 million in salary helping them further get away from the tax. Suns also get the 14th pick in this draft which should help them get a Center or a PG. Popovich loves Kevin Durant from what I've been researching. Wemby also calls him his inspiration. Barnes, Vassell, and 14th pick and possibly another asset or two looks to be the leader on the clubhouse.

Let’s get real any team that wants KD will have a way easier time than the Heat at acquiring him. It’s seems we as fans don’t see how bad of a situation we are asset wise. Other teams avoid adding Heat or former Heat players now more than ever seemingly

The big difference is KD has a say at 37 years old, on an expiring contract with respect from other franchises if he tells them no - he wont command a haul which will be annoying if San Antonio gets 2 stars for nothing while having so many assets and blue chip prospects. He's going to ultimately end up picking and the team will give up something respectable, but that's it. if GSW didn't bring him on bc he told them no then who is going to take that risk and disrespect KD like that?

The Giannis situation is weird. He apparently had his meeting, Bucks are evaluating lottery picks per a few different sources including prospect parents ... those conversations are happening with a select group of teams but clearly super private.

[oreon]

I promise I'm not changing any stuff. I just don't subordinate my NBA watching experience and analysis to talking heads trying to prop up narratives and get views and clicks. There is a reason that Toronto fans universally call Kyle Lowry their GROAT (Greatest Raptor Of All Time). Why don't you go ask them the pecking order of impact in that playoff run? Or should they be dismissed as well for the likes of Kendrick Perkins and Reggie Miller?

I don't consider Perkins or Miller analysts. The guys on TV are entertainers. I am talking about the podcast guys like Zach Lowe.

We can argue until we’re blue in the face but here are the facts:

1. Yes Siakam won a championship as his teams 2nd or more likely 3rd best player (2nd scoring option). Albeit it 3 major injuries to the Warriors and Kawhi being arguably the best player in the world helped but he still got it done and that can’t be taken away from him.

2. Bam has proven 3 times he can be the 2nd best player on teams that are either in the finals or 1 shot away from the finals competing for championships, even with a weak roster as we saw in 2023.

3. This team needs that true number 1 guy (Kawhi/Haliburton) and preferably a high level playmaker (Lowry/Haliburton) and we’re good to go with Bam as our 2nd best player.

We can agree to disagree on 2. But he's never shown that. 1st bubble run, it was Dragic then he got to finals. The other playoff run, it has been a different guy each series. And again, we all go back to the threads. After each playoff run the consensus has always been Jimmy in playoffs is a top 5 , we need to get him a no 2.
If he's one of the top 15 best players in the league. Why hasn't he made all nba. Why didn't he step up last season. We can rightfully harp on Herro's consistently. But he was this team clear best player last season. Albeit for a bad team.
If he's one of the guys, even without a no 1 the team can't be that bad. They were awful.
Bam and Herro have shown nothing to have any confidence that you can build around them as a no 2 or 3.
Now they probably get another shot. And its almost certain Bam will be here. Herro i'd say 30 % chance he's traded.
I don't care what's around them next season. If we are here and they are under 500. I don't want to hear we need to get Bam more help. They should nuke that core.
That team last season was beyond awful. FO gets blamed, Spo gets blamed. But also Bam gets blamed. You get a 50 mil extension, your team can't be under 500. And Herro gets blamed.
You'll get a pass, if you are a developing young player. If we want to give Bam all these accolades and say he's one of the best players in the league. Then that also means getting held to a high standard

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I want to keep Bam, but I also agree claiming he was a clear number 2 on championship level teams is definitely overstating his impact. If you squint really hard you could make that claim, but it feels like a very homer claim that sort of has to lobby on both sides to make sense (firstly that the teams were championship level and not just overachievers, and second that Bam was the clear number 2 on all of those rosters, when both takes are pretty debatable).

I think neutral fans, or fans of other teams, would be more likely to say those Heat squads overachieved, and Jimmy was doing a carry job most of the time (though I'd also argue Spo was doing some of the carry to even get us there with those squads).

Or to view it another way, go to the PC board and make a thread asking how many teams could win chips with Bam as their second best player. You're probably not going to see a lot of support for that take. And it's not hate, he's a guy well liked around the league, the worst I see is occasionally fans will call him dirty but that's not common at all (Wade got way more dirty player hate in his day).

Again though, (this is mostly towards a certain poster but can apply to anyone) this is why some view Bam as underrated on this board. Because at times people overrate him in this way and expect more than he's really capable of, instead of appreciating what he really is, which is an ultimate glue guy that could probably fit on any roster and make them better, but if you want to be a real contender, should be your third best player at most.

[wade44]

The more I look at it the more I see the Spurs just getting the Durant deal done. If they draft Harper they really don't have any use for Vassell anymore. Barnes is an expiring contract. They can also help out the Suns by eating the rest of the 9 million in salary helping them further get away from the tax. Suns also get the 14th pick in this draft which should help them get a Center or a PG. Popovich loves Kevin Durant from what I've been researching. Wemby also calls him his inspiration. Barnes, Vassell, and 14th pick and possibly another asset or two looks to be the leader on the clubhouse.

Let’s get real any team that wants KD will have a way easier time than the Heat at acquiring him. It’s seems we as fans don’t see how bad of a situation we are asset wise. Other teams avoid adding Heat or former Heat players now more than ever seemingly

The big difference is KD has a say at 37 years old, on an expiring contract with respect from other franchises if he tells them no - he wont command a haul which will be annoying if San Antonio gets 2 stars for nothing while having so many assets and blue chip prospects. He's going to ultimately end up picking and the team will give up something respectable, but that's it. if GSW didn't bring him on bc he told them no then who is going to take that risk and disrespect KD like that?

The Giannis situation is weird. He apparently had his meeting, Bucks are evaluating lottery picks per a few different sources including prospect parents ... those conversations are happening with a select group of teams but clearly super private.

Completely agree. If he wants Rockets, Spurs, Wolves etc. it will happen. There’s a reason Heat are already considered an afterthought and the free agency/trade cycle fever has not even begun

[oreon]

Last thing on Bam. I just think when you get paid that kind of money. You gotta be an All NBA guy. And he's not. You can't be objective and argue that he is. The good thing for him, he'll get another shot this season to show that he can be.

[DBurks2818]

Last thing on Bam. I just think when you get paid that kind of money. You gotta be an All NBA guy. And he's not. You can't be objective and argue that he is. The good thing for him, he'll get another shot this season to show that he can be.

Bam was tied for the 39th highest-paid player this year and will be tied for 41st next year. There are only 15 All-NBA spots.
Source

He is also a 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team (2024) and 4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2020–2023)
Source

Just adding some context to what you're saying, because I disagree with it.

[wade44]

Last thing on Bam. I just think when you get paid that kind of money. You gotta be an All NBA guy. And he's not. You can't be objective and argue that he is. The good thing for him, he'll get another shot this season to show that he can be.

He’s not considered an abomination because he does a lot of things well defensively and all around, same goes for Herro on the other side of the court. However it’s this same reason we’re paying these guys 1a money to be 2b at best players

[oreon]

Last thing on Bam. I just think when you get paid that kind of money. You gotta be an All NBA guy. And he's not. You can't be objective and argue that he is. The good thing for him, he'll get another shot this season to show that he can be.

Bam was tied for the 39th highest-paid player this year and will be tied for 41st next year. There are only 15 All-NBA spots.
Source

He is also a 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team (2024) and 4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2020–2023)
Source

Just adding some context to what you're saying, because I disagree with it.

I am okay with the money he's making now. We are talking about his extension.
And for the all nba guy, year to year a couple guys change on that list. So its more about who you think the best players on the league are.
And people have different tiers. For me its best player in league convo (Jokic), then MVP candidates (Giannnis, Doncic, SGA for example) then franchise guys but not MVP (Ant, Brunson) and then the 2nd star i.e Anthony Davis, Jaylen Brown.
And I can't compare Bam to these guys and say he's in the same tier as them. These guys typically make all nba minus injury. So All NBA is a good measuring stick to have when we talk about where a player is in relation. It's not perfect. But some guys its narrative but over a 3 season span, I think its a good indicator

[MettaWorldPanda]

Would you guys be good with this trade?

SF Andrew Wiggins to Clippers

For

SG Bogdan Bogdonovic
SF Derrick Jones Jr.
2nd rd pick

Bogdonovic has been rumored to the Heat plenty and would give us a solid wing off the bench behind Herro. Most importantly he comes with a 16 million dollar team option that can be used for more cap space or in trade the following year. DJJ comes back home on his small contract. Would be a 10 mil expiring the following year. Potential cap savings of 20 million getting off Wiggins 30 mil opt in next year. Would provide us with a lot more flexibility. Wiggins also slots in nicely with the Clippers between Powell and Leonard as a complimentary piece. Bogdan would be a good Serbian brate vet to have around for Niko.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I don't consider Perkins or Miller analysts. The guys on TV are entertainers. I am talking about the podcast guys like Zach Lowe.

We can argue until we’re blue in the face but here are the facts:

1. Yes Siakam won a championship as his teams 2nd or more likely 3rd best player (2nd scoring option). Albeit it 3 major injuries to the Warriors and Kawhi being arguably the best player in the world helped but he still got it done and that can’t be taken away from him.

2. Bam has proven 3 times he can be the 2nd best player on teams that are either in the finals or 1 shot away from the finals competing for championships, even with a weak roster as we saw in 2023.

3. This team needs that true number 1 guy (Kawhi/Haliburton) and preferably a high level playmaker (Lowry/Haliburton) and we’re good to go with Bam as our 2nd best player.

We can agree to disagree on 2. But he's never shown that. 1st bubble run, it was Dragic then he got to finals. The other playoff run, it has been a different guy each series. And again, we all go back to the threads. After each playoff run the consensus has always been Jimmy in playoffs is a top 5 , we need to get him a no 2.
If he's one of the top 15 best players in the league. Why hasn't he made all nba. Why didn't he step up last season. We can rightfully harp on Herro's consistently. But he was this team clear best player last season. Albeit for a bad team.
If he's one of the guys, even without a no 1 the team can't be that bad. They were awful.
Bam and Herro have shown nothing to have any confidence that you can build around them as a no 2 or 3.
Now they probably get another shot. And its almost certain Bam will be here. Herro i'd say 30 % chance he's traded.
I don't care what's around them next season. If we are here and they are under 500. I don't want to hear we need to get Bam more help. They should nuke that core.
That team last season was beyond awful. FO gets blamed, Spo gets blamed. But also Bam gets blamed. You get a 50 mil extension, your team can't be under 500. And Herro gets blamed.
You'll get a pass, if you are a developing young player. If we want to give Bam all these accolades and say he's one of the best players in the league. Then that also means getting held to a high standard

This is honestly wild revisionist history, I don’t even know where to start if I’m being honest.

Are you arguing that Bam wasn’t our 2nd best player on the team for the duration of the Jimmy era and more specifically the 2020, 2022, and 2023 seasons and are you basing this solely on PPG I’m guessing considering no one else on the roster comes remotely close to the things he does on the court overall?

You’re contradicting yourself in your argument lol. Not only was Bam our 2nd best player in every deep playoff
Run, he was our 2nd leading scorer in every deep playoff run except for 2020 by 1 PPG.

So because Bam was our 2nd leading scorer for those more recent runs now we’re deflecting and giving props to guys stepping up instead of just admitting he was the 2nd leading scorer lol? What are we doing here?!

I’m not arguing Bam is top 15, although his deep playoff runs over empty regular season stat guys who got all nba back him being better and I hope you don’t base your top 15 players in the league solely on all nba selections but if so that means you have Bam slotted in as your 22nd best player in the league this season in the worst season of his career. That’s not too shabby.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Would you guys be good with this trade?

SF Andrew Wiggins to Clippers

For

SG Bogdan Bogdonovic
SF Derrick Jones Jr.
2nd rd pick

Bogdonovic has been rumored to the Heat plenty and would give us a solid wing off the bench behind Herro. Most importantly he comes with a 16 million dollar team option that can be used for more cap space or in trade the following year. DJJ comes back home on his small contract. Would be a 10 mil expiring the following year. Potential cap savings of 20 million getting off Wiggins 30 mil opt in next year. Would provide us with a lot more flexibility. Wiggins also slots in nicely with the Clippers between Powell and Leonard as a complimentary piece.

Sure sign me up, I'll take anything that frees up money and doesn't just throw away Bam or youth.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Would you guys be good with this trade?

SF Andrew Wiggins to Clippers

For

SG Bogdan Bogdonovic
SF Derrick Jones Jr.
2nd rd pick

Bogdonovic has been rumored to the Heat plenty and would give us a solid wing off the bench behind Herro. Most importantly he comes with a 16 million dollar team option that can be used for more cap space or in trade the following year. DJJ comes back home on his small contract. Would be a 10 mil expiring the following year. Potential cap savings of 20 million getting off Wiggins 30 mil opt in next year. Would provide us with a lot more flexibility. Wiggins also slots in nicely with the Clippers between Powell and Leonard as a complimentary piece.

Sure sign me up, I'll take anything that frees up money and doesn't just throw away Bam or youth.

Think it’s a win win for both sides and the type of deals we should be seeking.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Last thing on Bam. I just think when you get paid that kind of money. You gotta be an All NBA guy. And he's not. You can't be objective and argue that he is. The good thing for him, he'll get another shot this season to show that he can be.

Bam was tied for the 39th highest-paid player this year and will be tied for 41st next year. There are only 15 All-NBA spots.
Source

He is also a 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team (2024) and 4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2020–2023)
Source

Just adding some context to what you're saying, because I disagree with it.

I am okay with the money he's making now. We are talking about his extension.
And for the all nba guy, year to year a couple guys change on that list. So its more about who you think the best players on the league are.
And people have different tiers. For me its best player in league convo (Jokic), then MVP candidates (Giannnis, Doncic, SGA for example) then franchise guys but not MVP (Ant, Brunson) and then the 2nd star i.e Anthony Davis, Jaylen Brown.
And I can't compare Bam to these guys and say he's in the same tier as them. These guys typically make all nba minus injury. So All NBA is a good measuring stick to have when we talk about where a player is in relation. It's not perfect. But some guys its narrative but over a 3 season span, I think its a good indicator

Honestly we should all be happy Bams been shafted for DPOY and all nba, his contract would be far larger.

And you’re contradicting yourself again; if you’re okay with the money he’s making now you should be okay with the money he’s going to make after next season considering it’s like a 2% increase against the cap and he’ll be a better player by then too as he continues to work on the 3 ball.

[DBurks2818]

Would you guys be good with this trade?

SF Andrew Wiggins to Clippers

For

SG Bogdan Bogdonovic
SF Derrick Jones Jr.
2nd rd pick

Bogdonovic has been rumored to the Heat plenty and would give us a solid wing off the bench behind Herro. Most importantly he comes with a 16 million dollar team option that can be used for more cap space or in trade the following year. DJJ comes back home on his small contract. Would be a 10 mil expiring the following year. Potential cap savings of 20 million getting off Wiggins 30 mil opt in next year. Would provide us with a lot more flexibility. Wiggins also slots in nicely with the Clippers between Powell and Leonard as a complimentary piece. Bogdan would be a good Serbian brate vet to have around for Niko.

Yeah I think it's mostly a good trade. The caveat is if Wiggins balls out next year in his (basically) contract year and then opts out anyway, he's probably worth more in that case--and I agree that he's a great fit for that Clipper team so I'd want a bit more back for those reasons.

But I like Bogdan being shooter insurance when trading Duncan somewhere else as cap relief-bait. Both guys may take PT away from the young wings on the bench.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

We can argue until we’re blue in the face but here are the facts:

1. Yes Siakam won a championship as his teams 2nd or more likely 3rd best player (2nd scoring option). Albeit it 3 major injuries to the Warriors and Kawhi being arguably the best player in the world helped but he still got it done and that can’t be taken away from him.

2. Bam has proven 3 times he can be the 2nd best player on teams that are either in the finals or 1 shot away from the finals competing for championships, even with a weak roster as we saw in 2023.

3. This team needs that true number 1 guy (Kawhi/Haliburton) and preferably a high level playmaker (Lowry/Haliburton) and we’re good to go with Bam as our 2nd best player.

We can agree to disagree on 2. But he's never shown that. 1st bubble run, it was Dragic then he got to finals. The other playoff run, it has been a different guy each series. And again, we all go back to the threads. After each playoff run the consensus has always been Jimmy in playoffs is a top 5 , we need to get him a no 2.
If he's one of the top 15 best players in the league. Why hasn't he made all nba. Why didn't he step up last season. We can rightfully harp on Herro's consistently. But he was this team clear best player last season. Albeit for a bad team.
If he's one of the guys, even without a no 1 the team can't be that bad. They were awful.
Bam and Herro have shown nothing to have any confidence that you can build around them as a no 2 or 3.
Now they probably get another shot. And its almost certain Bam will be here. Herro i'd say 30 % chance he's traded.
I don't care what's around them next season. If we are here and they are under 500. I don't want to hear we need to get Bam more help. They should nuke that core.
That team last season was beyond awful. FO gets blamed, Spo gets blamed. But also Bam gets blamed. You get a 50 mil extension, your team can't be under 500. And Herro gets blamed.
You'll get a pass, if you are a developing young player. If we want to give Bam all these accolades and say he's one of the best players in the league. Then that also means getting held to a high standard

This is honestly wild revisionist history, I don’t even know where to start if I’m being honest.

Are you arguing that Bam wasn’t our 2nd best player on the team for the duration of the Jimmy era and more specifically the 2020, 2022, and 2023 seasons and are you basing this solely on PPG I’m guessing considering no one else on the roster comes remotely close to the things he does on the court overall?

You’re contradicting yourself in your argument lol. Not only was Bam our 2nd best player in every deep playoff
Run, he was our 2nd leading scorer in every deep playoff run except for 2020 by 1 PPG.

So because Bam was our 2nd leading scorer for those more recent runs now we’re deflecting and giving props to guys stepping up instead of just admitting he was the 2nd leading scorer lol? What are we doing here?!

I’m not arguing Bam is top 15, although his deep playoff runs over empty regular season stat guys who got all nba back him being better and I hope you don’t base your top 15 players in the league solely on all nba selections but if so that means you have Bam slotted in as your 22nd best player in the league this season in the worst season of his career. That’s not too shabby.

I think you're both being a little hyperbolic, I hate arguing against Bam but you make me do it lol. Bam was arguably the 2nd best player on those squads, but nobody objective or non Heat fans are going to look at those teams and say "the Jimmy/Bam duo", it was Jimmy and the titos for a reason. Not even trying to slight Bam, but if you're honest with yourself, one of the biggest reasons those teams are even viewed as overachievers that had no real hope of winning a title was BECAUSE Bam was arguably the 2nd best player on them. Nobody was saying Jimmy was holding us back as the alpha, it was that we needed a better guy to pair with Jimmy, hence us reaching for KD/Dame etc.

That said, I'll agree that to say just because another guy scored more, Bam wasn't the #2 guy, is ignoring everything he brings to the table. I'll take an elite defensive big that gives you 15/10/5 over a scorer that puts up 20 and doesn't add much else.