MettaWorldPanda wrote:No they are not trading for Herro’s contract. Most likely they will draft Nique Clifford or Cedric Coward with the 15th pick.
Whoever they draft wont be starting and will likely play limited minutes if not zero minutes for them in postseason next year.
If they identify an immediate need for high level shooting in their starting lineup, draft's not gonna help.
They are not going to commit to Herro’s salary when they have their own guys they need to take care of when contracts are up. They are plenty of low cost options out there they can roll with if they need shooting. Quality low cost vets they can look into
Quality low cost one dimensional shooting off the bench, sure
Hypothetically, again, if they identify a need for shooting in their starting lineup to put them over the top, the draft won’t help them nor will the types of options you are implying.
In all likelihood, it would need to come via trade
So we're all saying Phoenix needs to do right by KD and send him where he wants to go. We expect Phoenix to do that. All reports saying Spurs is where he ultimately wants to be though. I'm expecting him to end up in San Antonio at this point honestly.
greg4012 wrote:Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks
I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.
But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.
In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron. Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.
The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.
Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.
Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:
They can’t take back more salary than they send out
They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade
They can’t include cash or trade exceptions
They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions
This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)
All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.
Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.
Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:
2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.
2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.
The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill
The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.
Do I think we’ll actually get KD? Honestly—not sure.
I don’t know what that wall of text was supposed to prove, because the Suns can absolutely get out of the second apron easily.
They can waive Cody Martin ($8.68M) and decline Vasilije Micic’s team option ($8.11M), saving nearly $17 million right off the bat. That alone puts them well below the second apron without needing to move any major contracts or pull off complex trades.
Yes, Duncan Robinson is a nice piece and his partially guaranteed deal provides some flexibility, but Phoenix doesn’t need that to get under the second apron. They can get out of the second apron, and then make additional moves to fill out the roster under it once the restrictions loosen. The idea that only Miami can offer them that path to stay under just doesn’t hold up.
Have to think we package Duncan before July 1st right? That non guaranteed is amazing on the open market. When is the deadline for cutting or keeping him?
Johnny Fontane wrote:Have to think we package Duncan before July 1st right? That non guaranteed is amazing on the open market. When is the deadline for cutting or keeping him?
Only $9,888,000 guaranteed in 2025/26, HoopsHype has learned. Increases to full guarantee if his team doesn't waive him on or before two days after the end of 2025/26 moratorium period.
Johnny Fontane wrote:Have to think we package Duncan before July 1st right? That non guaranteed is amazing on the open market. When is the deadline for cutting or keeping him?
They have extensions coming up. The salaries on that team are going to be mounting soon. Tyler ain’t going anywhere. Same reason they won’t go after Oklahoma’s own Trae Young. Shai is about to be paid 75 mil per. And Herro is due a 49 per extension. It’s nothing personal against Herro. Just the new apron era.
Tyler shouldn’t be given the option to extend until he does something meaningful in the playoffs, can’t pay $50M a year for a guy who only plays 1 side of the ball during the regular season and neither side of the ball in the playoffs when teams actually lock in. He’s done nothing to earn an extension.
greg4012 wrote:Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks
I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.
But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.
In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron. Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.
The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.
Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.
Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:
They can’t take back more salary than they send out
They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade
They can’t include cash or trade exceptions
They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions
This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)
All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.
Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.
Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:
2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.
2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.
The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill
The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.
Do I think we’ll actually get KD? Honestly—not sure.
I don’t know what that wall of text was supposed to prove, because the Suns can absolutely get out of the second apron easily.
They can waive Cody Martin ($8.68M) and decline Vasilije Micic’s team option ($8.11M), saving nearly $17 million right off the bat. That alone puts them well below the second apron without needing to move any major contracts or pull off complex trades.
Yes, Duncan Robinson is a nice piece and his partially guaranteed deal provides some flexibility, but Phoenix doesn’t need that to get under the second apron. They can get out of the second apron, and then make additional moves to fill out the roster under it once the restrictions loosen. The idea that only Miami can offer them that path to stay under just doesn’t hold up.
It wasn't trying to prove anything. It was info shared for discussion. I'm glad others are diving further into this bc I wanted to see what those on this board thought about it. But dude, what's up with the tone?
The part I found interesting was noting the deadcap charges amounting to over $3M in addition to paying actual rostered players. From what I can gather, what that means is that PHX is projected at nearly $219M in payroll for next season for 10 players. Yes, getting off of Martin and Micic reduces that by $17M (now at ~$202M). That puts PHX below the 2nd apron (projected at $207M) with 8 players under contract--but still squarely in the 1st apron (projected at $196M). Let's assume PHX trades Durant somewhere and gets back 4 players (can't imagine it being more than that).
So, PHX now has 11 players under contract and is right around $202M in salary cap (well within 1st apron and $5M from 2nd apron). Vet min next season is projected to range between $2M and $4M depending on experience level. How does PHX field a full roster without getting back into the 2nd apron? That's the crux that i find most interesting and why it seems to me like every little bit of cap relief helps exponentially.
greg4012 wrote:Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks
I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.
But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.
In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron. Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.
The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.
Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.
Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:
They can’t take back more salary than they send out
They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade
They can’t include cash or trade exceptions
They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions
This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)
All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.
Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.
Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:
2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.
2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.
The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill
The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.
Do I think we’ll actually get KD? Honestly—not sure.
I don’t know what that wall of text was supposed to prove, because the Suns can absolutely get out of the second apron easily.
They can waive Cody Martin ($8.68M) and decline Vasilije Micic’s team option ($8.11M), saving nearly $17 million right off the bat. That alone puts them well below the second apron without needing to move any major contracts or pull off complex trades.
Yes, Duncan Robinson is a nice piece and his partially guaranteed deal provides some flexibility, but Phoenix doesn’t need that to get under the second apron. They can get out of the second apron, and then make additional moves to fill out the roster under it once the restrictions loosen. The idea that only Miami can offer them that path to stay under just doesn’t hold up.
They'll have to fill in like 5 roster spots with about 5m in space to do so under the apron.
greg4012 wrote:Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks
I don’t know what that wall of text was supposed to prove, because the Suns can absolutely get out of the second apron easily.
They can waive Cody Martin ($8.68M) and decline Vasilije Micic’s team option ($8.11M), saving nearly $17 million right off the bat. That alone puts them well below the second apron without needing to move any major contracts or pull off complex trades.
Yes, Duncan Robinson is a nice piece and his partially guaranteed deal provides some flexibility, but Phoenix doesn’t need that to get under the second apron. They can get out of the second apron, and then make additional moves to fill out the roster under it once the restrictions loosen. The idea that only Miami can offer them that path to stay under just doesn’t hold up.
They'll have to fill in like 5 roster spots with about 5m in space to do so under the apron.
It’s not even just the aprons. They start repeater tax next year. League is about to pound repeater tax teams. They also have to sign there draft picks.
