2025 Offseason Thread Vol.5

[MettaWorldPanda]

Rozier has as much a negative effect on the team as Butler going rouge last year. Just leaves the well poisoned and this FO is too stubborn sometimes for its own good to cut bait. They’ll go into the year thinking someone will take him at the deadline trying to rehab his value while he throws more games for us.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We can agree that they didn't exhaust every single asset to solely serve 2024-2025 at the expense of having means to build a roster beyond Jimmy's age 35 season. I never wanted them to go ALL-IN to that extent bc it can get reckless quick and I have enough belief in Bam + Spo and others (and enough concern with a player like Jimmy remaining viable beyond age 35) to want to have team building options moving forward.

Miami wasn't competing with PHX's offer for KD (when he was leaving BKN). Miami wasn't getting over the whole NBA conspiring against Dame trying to force his way to Miami. Yes, other moves were possible and Miami didn't make them. I was intrigued by Kyrie at the time, but he was also a lot more volatile and toxic in BKN than he proved to be in Dallas. Tough.

We can get lost in the weeds along the way. Just remember that, in doing so, we're lost in the weeds and not commenting accurately on the entire forest.

The narrative gets really dumb really quickly when taken to extremes that are detached from reality.

You say we can agree. But, I never see you actually recognizing these dynamics or contextualizing with them.

To be perfectly honest, I think there was enough evidence between Jimmy's injury the year before last and his mediocre showing in the playoffs with GSW to suggest even if we went all in, he wasn't going to have enough in the tank to push us over the hump the last two years. And that's assuming we get someone like Lillard and he doesn't still have his own injury problems.

I'm also not on board with the assumptions we had a Donovan Mitchell or Kyrie in the bag, and only didn't get them because of refusal to give up assets. Or if we did, that it was a slam dunk championship squad (to be honest every year we made it was a struggle and underdog effort, even the year we were a #1 seed we weren't preseason favorites or anything).

I also don't get the constant 180's with Herro. Its always "why didn't we give him up to get the star we need", but then in the next sentence calling him trash. So which is it? If other teams view him the way you do (not you but you know who I'm talking about), then maybe he never had that value in the first place and wasn't going to get us the stars we wanted? Maybe we never really had the pieces needed to get those deals done?

Meanwhile, the win now moves we did make where we traded youth or draft picks or signed a guy tended to blow up in our face (Lowry, Rozier). So maybe sometimes just making any move just for the sake of making it, isn't the play?

(obviously most of this post is in reference to the other poster, I'm basically agreeing with your take)

It’s pretty simply Timmy, as Tyler gets older and that contract gets bigger the less of an asset he becomes. Not trading him for a star early on in the Jimmy era was a mistake. Is what it is.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I am reforming myself as a FO and Herro stan going forward, this is the last time we will discuss the FO in a negative light!

lol why can't you just be chill and reasonable, its way less stressful

I’m very chill and also reasonable, you just don’t agree with my view on the front office or Tyler and that’s ok. I understand that critiquing the front office when I felt they could and should have done more and critiquing Tyler are by far the 2 most unpopular things you can do but that’s not going to stop me from speaking my mind on it (or didn’t before my reformation).

[Shewasfly]

Read on Twitter

Our worst nightmare

Either he or Wiggins have to be gone by the time the season starts. We can't go into the season with both.

If the only option is to attach a pick, keep em. No more of that ****. Especially with Wiggins, he is actually useful.

Agreed. I also think if we are forced to keep Wiggins I could get on board with seeing him in a reserve/6th man role. But the whole run the offense thing through him last year made me want to throw up. If the only way we know how to play him is to make him a focal point on offense, he's gotta go.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

It’s pretty simply Timmy, as Tyler gets older and that contract gets bigger the less of an asset he becomes. Not trading him for a star early on in the Jimmy era was a mistake. Is what it is.

OK, but he also improved as a player noticeably over the last couple seasons, mostly last season. So maybe because of his youth and inexperience, he didn't have the value you think he did? Every Lillard rumor had Tyler as part of the deal, yes after Riley claimed him untouchable but that sounded like PR more than anything, to keep his morale strong, I highly doubt he wasn't at the center of every Lillard offer. That was also a unique case where Lillard and his agent sort of tanked it for us by pissing off Cronin.

I wasn't paying close enough attention at the time to know the details of the other rumored players we were after, but I'm sure there's more to it than "Riley's a dummy that won't pull the trigger".

And this doesn't address my other point, yes you have undying belief in them because you have attached yourself to Bam and his career trajectory, but both Heat fans and outsiders did not view the Heat as just one piece away at any point during the Jimmy era besides maybe following the 22-23 Finals run, where we tried to get Dame, and I already addressed why that fell apart. Every other year we greatly overachieved everyone's expectations besides possibly your own, which kudos to you for being a super fan and believer.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I am reforming myself as a FO and Herro stan going forward, this is the last time we will discuss the FO in a negative light!

lol why can't you just be chill and reasonable, its way less stressful

Extremes… if it’s not one extreme, it’s the other! There is so much more in the middle grey area! Also a more chill zone to be in than pounding your fist at the outer walls!! I am going to chill here in the middle area and enjoy the ride with you and Greg!

[Wiltside]

Doesn’t Chicago have a big Serbian population? I feel like I remember that from the Nikola Mirotic days.

I wonder if a Giddey S&T for Rozier, Jovic and a SRP would get it done. Bulls keep the books clean, get a young prospect with upside and a pick.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I am reforming myself as a FO and Herro stan going forward, this is the last time we will discuss the FO in a negative light!

lol why can't you just be chill and reasonable, its way less stressful

I’m very chill and also reasonable, you just don’t agree with my view on the front office or Tyler and that’s ok. I understand that critiquing the front office when I felt they could and should have done more and critiquing Tyler are by far the 2 most unpopular things you can do but that’s not going to stop me from speaking my mind on it (or didn’t before my reformation).

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

[Bhut Jolokia]

I wouldn’t be so desperate to trade Wiggins. I would only trade him if we are clearly winning the trade. Wiggins would be somebody to hold onto now that the Heat are looking to compete in the playoffs after the Powell trade. I’m sure we will get better deals by the trade deadline too

[MettaWorldPanda]

Rozier is probably viewed as the worst expiring contract in the league.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I still keep thinking about the need to cut 1.4 million off the books and open roster spot. I know we have time but we also don’t. I remember during the trade deadline us getting stuck trying to get that last few million under the tax only to get stuck trying to work something out one hour past the deadline. Still see another move happening.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I wouldn’t be so desperate to trade Wiggins. I would only trade him if we are clearly winning the trade. Wiggins would be somebody to hold onto now that the Heat are looking to compete in the playoffs after the Powell trade. I’m sure we will get better deals by the trade deadline too

Agreed… and if he does come out and play his game, he does fit the build this year. We are just desperate for our #1 option, and we see a path to get that if we cash in on value that is not part of the long term plan… which Wiggins falls into.

[Vertical Limit]

Rozier is probably viewed as the worst expiring contract in the league.

his expiring still has value.. just wait till the dominoes fall by the deadline..

When X team is falling short of expectations and want to kove on from X player, that may be of interest to us..

And if that doesnt happen, you negotiate his buyout by the end of february, and move on..

[3ammy3uck3ts]

lol why can't you just be chill and reasonable, its way less stressful

I’m very chill and also reasonable, you just don’t agree with my view on the front office or Tyler and that’s ok. I understand that critiquing the front office when I felt they could and should have done more and critiquing Tyler are by far the 2 most unpopular things you can do but that’s not going to stop me from speaking my mind on it (or didn’t before my reformation).

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I don't think Wiggins has to be seen as a negative, but the offense has to make a more concerted effort to only use him as a play finisher and not involve him in actions where he has to create or make decisions. Tyler's OK but can't do it all on his own, so whether that be more point Bam, more Jaime, Jovic, just someone has to step up and fill that void (assuming JK isn't ready this year).

Rozier is a negative, but Spo did show a willingness to bench him by the end of the season and postseason, so if he keeps him on that short leash I'm fine with being unable to dump him.

[unowen85]

Quite frankly, between Wiggins and Rozier, I’d rather keep Scary Terry. At least he looks happy on the sidelines and cheers for his teammates. Wiggins is like an emotional black hole, sucking away our joy.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It’s pretty simply Timmy, as Tyler gets older and that contract gets bigger the less of an asset he becomes. Not trading him for a star early on in the Jimmy era was a mistake. Is what it is.

OK, but he also improved as a player noticeably over the last couple seasons, mostly last season. So maybe because of his youth and inexperience, he didn't have the value you think he did? Every Lillard rumor had Tyler as part of the deal, yes after Riley claimed him untouchable but that sounded like PR more than anything, to keep his morale strong, I highly doubt he wasn't at the center of every Lillard offer. That was also a unique case where Lillard and his agent sort of tanked it for us by pissing off Cronin.

I wasn't paying close enough attention at the time to know the details of the other rumored players we were after, but I'm sure there's more to it than "Riley's a dummy that won't pull the trigger".

And this doesn't address my other point, yes you have undying belief in them because you have attached yourself to Bam and his career trajectory, but both Heat fans and outsiders did not view the Heat as just one piece away at any point during the Jimmy era besides maybe following the 22-23 Finals run, where we tried to get Dame, and I already addressed why that fell apart. Every other year we greatly overachieved everyone's expectations besides possibly your own, which kudos to you for being a super fan and believer.

His youth was a major part of his value. He definitely improved this last year in ways that were very noticeable outside of just an increase in usage and shot attempts like prior years so hopefully he can keep that up in addition to being able to stay healthy. I want to be wrong about Tyler and I want the front office to prove me wrong whether you all believe that or not because that means there’s a very good chance my team is doing good. Powell trade was a good step for the FO, for me personally on Tyler it’s all about the playoffs. I don’t care what he’s able to do in the regular season any more if he’s not able to translate that to the playoffs. Idk, maybe to ML that’s extreme but that seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I’m very chill and also reasonable, you just don’t agree with my view on the front office or Tyler and that’s ok. I understand that critiquing the front office when I felt they could and should have done more and critiquing Tyler are by far the 2 most unpopular things you can do but that’s not going to stop me from speaking my mind on it (or didn’t before my reformation).

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

I think you underestimate how much of Bam's inability to do those things falls on him and not how the team uses him. And I think most in here would agree with me, and this is a Heat board so we're prone to side with our players (I know you weren't posting here back in the day but people made every excuse in the book for Beasley who produced far less than Bam ever did). Its not hate either because I promise if you polled this board, who their favorite player on the current team is, at least 70-80% probably say Bam (he'd be my pick).

You just have a very Bam-centric view of the team, both in terms of how it should be built and how the offense is structured (I actually agree he does everything defensively for us). Although maybe you're right, maybe Spo will unleash Bam and he'll magically become prime KG. Or maybe it'll happen somewhere else if he gets dealt. I don't see it, and I don't think many here do, but you could be onto something. Personally though, by not expecting we are holding back a "prime KG" level player, I can better appreciate who Bam really is and what he does bring to the table, which is enough that I'm pretty content with who he is.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Quite frankly, between Wiggins and Rozier, I’d rather keep Scary Terry. At least he looks happy on the sidelines and cheers for his teammates. Wiggins is like an emotional black hole, sucking away our joy.

lol

I think Wiggs is just the quiet type. He is Canadian, so there's that (no offense to any Canadians out there).

[SoFlaKingReal]

Deals will be made, we just have to be patient. I still feel like the Heat will make a run at Lillard for the minimum.