Pat Riley

[Heat3]

I just noticed that the OP is now rocking a Jimmy Butler avatar. I'm sure that wasn't it when this thread started?

You still feel the same way?

[Bourne85]

Finally, when have you ever known Riley to stop trying to make his team better? You cannot possibly believe this is where he's going to stop. This isn't the final roster, it's the first step. Buckle up, kid. It's going to be a hell of a ride...

I don't think he's going to stop. It wouldn't make any sense to stop. My main problem is that I believe that our initial move was a flawed one. IMO Pat's impatience got the better of him ... again.

Exactly. Riley is growing more and more impatient. He needed to stop before he traded for Jimmy. Now he has a second tier “star” and I expect him to make another wrong move (going for another second tier star ie: Beal/Wall, Westbrick, now Cp3,)

And why is this about Riley anyways? Bballfreak likes to talk Riley up a LOT. Truth is Riley hasn’t built a team since he traded for Shaq. And Shaq came because of Wade, Shaq doesn’t even like Riley

Bballfreak did you know:
-Riley didn’t want to draft Wade, he needed to be convinced. He wanted Darko if my memory serves me.
-Wade not your boy Riley, brought us Lebron and Bosh. Wade colluded, gave your boy the heads up to have cap space ready for this trio. Sure he filled it out well enough with the Battiers, Allen’s, Mike Miller’s etc. but the core of the championship team, the big 3, was Wades doing and ONLY wades doing.
-Once Lebron left, he has done absolutely nothing of note. Only hand out terrible contracts left and right making scrubs rich as Kings.
-Jimmy? Who do you think got us Jimmy? Pat?! Nope! Once again, Wade. Wade Wade Wade.

So please enough of this “Don” that walks on holy water. He has been handed Stars by his players connections. He can slap all his rings on the desk, lbj doesn’t even talk to him if Wade didn’t recruit him.

When you look up at the banners, our Legend Wade is the one responsible. He has been our player, gm, recruiter since he got here. And if it wasn’t Wade, the heat would have EXACTLY ZERO titles.

If anything it’s time for Riley to go, if one of his players ain’t feeding him insider info and becoming best friends with the best player in the league I’m not sure how “good” of a gm he truly is.

[BBallFreak]

Exactly. Riley is growing more and more impatient. He needed to stop before he traded for Jimmy. Now he has a second tier “star” and I expect him to make another wrong move (going for another second tier star ie: Beal/Wall, Westbrick, now Cp3,)

And why is this about Riley anyways?

The thread is literally called PAT RILEY. Why is this about Riley? Go to a different thread if you don't want to talk about him.

Bballfreak likes to talk Riley up a LOT. Truth is Riley hasn’t built a team since he traded for Shaq. And Shaq came because of Wade, Shaq doesn’t even like Riley

Now they don't get along. They did initially. Shaq didn't like Riley riding him for being fat. Did you know that, while Miami was on Shaq's list in part because of Wade, Riley went to LA because they wanted to hire him? Instead, he laid the framework for the Shaq trade and turned us into NBA champions.

Bballfreak did you know:
-Riley didn’t want to draft Wade, he needed to be convinced. He wanted Darko if my memory serves me.

Incorrect. It was Kris Kaman. Darko was taken before Wade. Riley wanted the center but was talked out of it. That shows he's willing to listen to his people. Sorry, I don't see that as a bad thing.

-Wade not your boy Riley, brought us Lebron and Bosh. Wade colluded, gave your boy the heads up to have cap space ready for this trio. Sure he filled it out well enough with the Battiers, Allen’s, Mike Miller’s etc. but the core of the championship team, the big 3, was Wades doing and ONLY wades doing.

And Riley, not Wade, made trade after trade to put the team in position to make that all happen. He conned the Raptors out of a first-round pick to take Marcus Banks, who's contract would have kept us from making the big three a reality, in the Shawn Marion trade which he later traded back to Toronto for Chris Bosh.

-Once Lebron left, he has done absolutely nothing of note. Only hand out terrible contracts left and right making scrubs rich as Kings.

Everyone likes to forget that we were a game away from the ECF after LeBron left, and blame Riley for Chris Bosh's blood clots. Kinda hard to do anything when you've got a guy taking up max space who can't see the floor.

He drafted J-Rich in the second round when most had him going later in the round or undrafted. No one knew he was, but Riley gave him the three-year deal, thus giving us control of a strong asset that would later be turned into an all-star.

He reclaimed Hassan Whiteside off the scrap heap and turned him into a viable NBA starting center.

He drafted Justise Winslow and Bam Adebayo and developed them into solid NBA players who still exhibit potential.

-Jimmy? Who do you think got us Jimmy? Pat?! Nope! Once again, Wade. Wade Wade Wade.

Jerry West recently said that Kawhi Leonard made the PG trade happen and then agreed to sign there. Said he had nothing to do with it. Guess we should toss him out the window, as well? He'll probably win GM of the year (again) all because Kawhi Leonard did what every other star player in this league does; recruit.

Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving? Wanted to play together and went where there was money.

LeBron recruited Anthony Davis.

Harden recruited Westbrook.

So Riley is the only GM that gets penalized for taking advantage of his star player recruiting?

Or maybe it's time to consider something else if you hadn't thought of it.

New York had cap space this year. Who did they get?

The Kings had cap space this year. Who did they get?

We had none. Who did we get?

Yeah, having a guy like Riley and the culture that he's built here makes it a hell of a lot easier for Wade to recruit.

Welcome to the modern NBA.

Did you happen to remember that Wade could have left Miami on 2010, or no?

So please enough of this “Don” that walks on holy water. He has been handed Stars by his players connections. He can slap all his rings on the desk, lbj doesn’t even talk to him if Wade didn’t recruit him.

When you look up at the banners, our Legend Wade is the one responsible. He has been our player, gm, recruiter since he got here. And if it wasn’t Wade, the heat would have EXACTLY ZERO titles.

If anything it’s time for Riley to go, if one of his players ain’t feeding him insider info and becoming best friends with the best player in the league I’m not sure how “good” of a gm he truly is.

Hey, Riley will leave soon enough. Then you'll see what it's like to be a King's fan...

[Bourne85]

Slice it anyway you like Bballfreak, Wade is the reason we hung 3 banners up. He brought us Shaq, Shaq himself said he only came here cuz of Wade. Trump could’ve been the Heat GM and Shaq would’ve still came. Same for the big 3 that wade brought us. Doesn’t matter who the GM is, your star player tells you I’m bringing Lebron and Bosh in a couple years, any competent GM would clear that cap space.

3 rings, all thanks to #3, not Riley sorry.

Riley is on his last legs, I don’t agree with the Jimmy trade and max contract, but let’s see where Riley takes it from here. So far if these rumors are all true, Westbrook and Cp3, he isn’t building correctly and you very well know it. He is just going for any big name to get pple to buy tickets. And that’s fine, but the fans should not be expecting any rings anytime soon if these are the type of “stars” we are targeting.

It doesn’t take a genius to see Riley has been subpar since Lebrons departure. Don’t try to defend it, don’t sugar coat it, he has flat out been bad the past 6 years. Top of the nba in salary and not even in playoffs for goodness sake. Any other GM would’ve been FIRED by now under those circumstances.

This is Riley’s last hoorah, I just hope he doesn’t dig us in too deep a hole again. Time will tell. But something tells me Riley’s patience will cost us.

And no, we don’t have to be the kings. EVERY team has to go through the draft and be bad at some point. Every team. But the heat refuse to admit this, they refuse to go through the process. The very same process that landed us #3 and the 3 rings. We have this new plan where our “culture” will magically land us the players we need to win. I hope this new formula works, but I doubt it

[BBallFreak]

Slice it anyway you like Bballfreak, Wade is the reason we hung 3 banners up. He brought us Shaq, Shaq himself said he only came here cuz of Wade. Trump could’ve been the Heat GM and Shaq would’ve still came. Same for the big 3 that wade brought us. Doesn’t matter who the GM is, your star player tells you I’m bringing Lebron and Bosh in a couple years, any competent GM would clear that cap space.

BS. EVERY GM new the three of them would be on the market. Every GM saw what Riley was doing. It was in the papers, ya know. Not a one tried to mimic it.

3 rings, all thanks to #3, not Riley sorry.

Again, BS. Riley came out of partial retirement to coach the first one, and put every supporting piece around all three of them. He orchestrated the Shaq trade (and you forget we weren't the only team on his list), gave us the space to land the Big 3 (and if Riley hadn't been Riley, don't you think they'd have chosen another team? Sent word to NY or something, like Kawhi did with the Clips)

Riley is on his last legs, I don’t agree with the Jimmy trade and max contract, but let’s see where Riley takes it from here. So far if these rumors are all true, Westbrook and Cp3, he isn’t building correctly and you very well know it. He is just going for any big name to get pple to buy tickets. And that’s fine, but the fans should not be expecting any rings anytime soon if these are the type of “stars” we are targeting.

CP3 would be in Miami right now if Riley had wanted him, and honestly, Westbrook would be too. He drew a line and refused to cross it.

It doesn’t take a genius to see Riley has been subpar since Lebrons departure. Don’t try to defend it, don’t sugar coat it, he has flat out been bad the past 6 years. Top of the nba in salary and not even in playoffs for goodness sake. Any other GM would’ve been FIRED by now under those circumstances.

First, you are once again blaming him for Chris Bosh's blood clots. Completely disingenuous.

Second, we've been to the playoffs twice since LeBron left. Don't you think a healthy Chris Bosh might have changed that?

This is Riley’s last hoorah, I just hope he doesn’t dig us in too deep a hole again. Time will tell. But something tells me Riley’s patience will cost us.

Wah! I don't want to win games, rather than tank for 12 years hoping to land the next Michael Olowakandi!

You forget my friend, I was here before Riley. I know what this team looks like without him. You damn well better savor this, because when it's gone we could very well be screwed.

And no, we don’t have to be the kings. EVERY team has to go through the draft and be bad at some point. Every team. But the heat refuse to admit this, they refuse to go through the process. The very same process that landed us #3 and the 3 rings. We have this new plan where our “culture” will magically land us the players we need to win. I hope this new formula works, but I doubt it

This isn't a new plan, this is what we've done for 25 years and what's made us one of the winningest franchises in the league. I'm prety damn pleased with what we've accomplished. Perspective helps. I remember this franchise before Riley. Do you?

Edit: Just had to add that we didn't tank for Wade. In fact, it's because we didn't tank that we got Wade in the first place. If you'll remember, we were tied with Toronto for the 4th spot in the lottery and played them the last game of the year. Had we tanked we'd have had the 4th pick and drafted Chris Bosh. Instead, we won and got the 5th pick. People like you were livid. Now you hold it up as the reason we should for Riley and how Sam freaking Hinkie...

[MartyConlonJr]

From my perspective, Rileys mistakes were:
- Buying the hype of Whiteside contract year. Forgivable maybe, Whiteside had many duped (Dallas had a max ready). Wish he had just paid Wade and gone the loyalty route, but I think if I looked back at my posts I was duped too. I think my perspective was Wade can't stand in the way of the youth movement and we would have had to trade some guys like J-Rich or TJ to free up some cap to hit his demands.
- Not standing firm on Arison and TJ match. Who knows what that dynamic is and what leeway a president has over an owner.
- Buying the hype of 30-11 and paying Dion and JJ. A forgivable offense possibly, I will never probably know who or what we were bidding against, but in retrospect it feels like those contracts could have been shorter by a year at least (especially double down Dion). Really there wasn't another option at the time to put up against bringing back the gritty winner in terms of FA at the time and Dragic + Dion were unstoppable in that second half season. It did look sustainable.

I thought Bosh max was a bit rash after Lebron left but honestly Bosh with no blood clots does probably get us to the NBA finals that year we lost out to Toronto and keep us in contention. Hindsight so easy with medical retirement. So I can't really count this strike against him.

Really Pat's errors have been duped a bit by Whiteside, Dion and JJ and committing cap to them in seasons where the big FA prizes (KD, Gordon Hayward) didn't commit and not having better alternatives. This is something he can and probably has learnt from.

I wasn't in love with the Jimmy move but Pat has about as good an exec history as anyone and has been dealt some pretty unfortunate blows along the way, consistently reinventing and building contenders on the fly. My faith in him remains strong.

[heat4life]

I wasn't in love with the Jimmy move but Pat has about as good an exec history as anyone and has been dealt some pretty unfortunate blows along the way, consistently reinventing and building contenders on the fly. My faith in him remains strong.

This probably describes Riley's executive career in Miami better than anything else on this thread.

[Heat3]

Slice it anyway you like Bballfreak, Wade is the reason we hung 3 banners up. He brought us Shaq, Shaq himself said he only came here cuz of Wade.

I love Shaq and wish he never left, but he’s as big a BS’er as anyone. He had Miami on his list because of two things: weather and Riley. He loves warm weather and only respects coaches that are proven winners like Phil and Riles.

His preferred destination was Dallas. The early praise he gave to Wade was more about diminishing Kobe than anything. I can still remember Shaq and a young impressionable Wade referring to Kobe as “that other guy”.

More than anything Shaq was not like current stars that want to team up. Shaq felt that he and he alone could make a team a contender. Frankly he was right based on his resume.

Now we know how it all turned out, but he would have been more than happy to come here Wade or no Wade. He might have become a malcontent earlier if Wade had exploded on the Lakers after the fact though

[Big NBA Fan]

I love Shaq and wish he never left, but he’s as big a BS’er as anyone. He had Miami on his list because of two things: weather and Riley. He loves warm weather and only respects coaches that are proven winners like Phil and Riles.

His preferred destination was Dallas. The early praise he gave to Wade was more about diminishing Kobe than anything. I can still remember Shaq and a young impressionable Wade referring to Kobe as “that other guy”.

More than anything Shaq was not like current stars that want to team up. Shaq felt that he and he alone could make a team a contender. Frankly he was right based on his resume.

Now we know how it all turned out, but he would have been more than happy to come here Wade or no Wade. He might have become a malcontent earlier if Wade had exploded on the Lakers after the fact though

Shaq's decision to force his way out of Miami was the worst thing he has ever done and it still hurts his image to this day. It's the same mistake Dwight made in forcing his way out of Orlando.

If Shaq had just stayed through the tough times, he could have re-signed with the Heat on a minimum contract and won a few more rings with the Big 3. Instead, he became a journeyman ring-chaser and the biggest punching bag in the NBA. It was a stunning, and sad, fall from grace from the once-biggest star in the NBA.

He ran into the same problem in Phoenix that MDA ran into in Los Angeles; nobody wanted them there in the first place, so all the blame fell on them. The Marion supporters continue to bad-mouth Shaq and the Phil Jackson supporters like Magic Johnson crushed MDA all the time.

Shaq actually gave the Suns a strong 2009 season; it wasn't his fault Terry Porter was hired or that STAT/Diaw missed the last 30 games of that season.

And MDA has successfully rehabbed his image in Houston.

But, yes, Shaq is a known liar at times, as noted above. He even claimed that he never wanted to leave Miami even though he DEMANDED A BUY-OUT in December 2007.

I just wish he would admit leaving the Heat was a huge mistake.

[SA37]

The main objection here seems to be what Riley has done after Lebron James left. A good point if comparison would be: compare Miami’s situation to Cleveland’s. Cleveland lost James and traded Irving (more or less equivalent to losing LeBron and Bosh for Miami). Look where they are. Look at their roster.

It’s important to keep in mind the effect Chris Bosh’s retirement had on the organization and it’s plans. It was similar to what happened when Miami lost Alonzo Mourning. Suddenly re-signing Tim Hardaway didn’t look so good (although admittedly, Riley tried to get Gary Payton before re-signing Hardaway). Miami resurrected Anthony Mason (career year) and Rod Strickland (one of his better years as a pro, iirc) and got reasonable production out of Kendall Gill and Jim Jackson. Miami won 50 games with those guys.

Riley eventually turned Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, Caron Butler, and Lamar Odom into Dwyane Wade, Shaq, Gary Payton, Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker... and a championship. You know those guys eventually become LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Amare Stoudemire...etc

Recently, Riley has managed to get good production out of unknowns, like Tyler Johnson and Hassan Whiteside. Draft-wise, Richardson and Winslow have both turned into solid players, and Bam has talent. We’ll see about Herro. The guy who hasn’t panned out is Whiteside, but Rile turned his contract and a former 2nd round pick (Richardson) into Myers Leonard and Jimmy Butler. He also picked up Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters for nothing. On top of that, he brought Wade back and added Dragic. Given the cap restrictions, that is a fantastic haul.

The biggest names in basketball have played for this organization, and it is because of Riley. Did he get lucky? Sure. Did he get unlucky (Mourning and Bosh)? Yep.

But you can’t put 25 years of management down to lucky or unlucky. He’s gotten stars via free agency, trade, 1st rd picks, 2nd rd picks, undrafted players, resuscitated countless players’ careers...

Like BBallFreak said: go look at other franchises and see how many stars have played in those places. Few can match Miami.

[BBallFreak]

The main objection here seems to be what Riley has done after Lebron James left. A good point if comparison would be: compare Miami’s situation to Cleveland’s. Cleveland lost James and traded Irving (more or less equivalent to losing LeBron and Bosh for Miami). Look where they are. Look at their roster.

It’s important to keep in mind the effect Chris Bosh’s retirement had on the organization and it’s plans. It was similar to what happened when Miami lost Alonzo Mourning. Suddenly re-signing Tim Hardaway didn’t look so good (although admittedly, Riley tried to get Gary Payton before re-signing Hardaway). Miami resurrected Anthony Mason (career year) and Rod Strickland (one of his better years as a pro, iirc) and got reasonable production out of Kendall Gill and Jim Jackson. Miami won 50 games with those guys.

Riley eventually turned Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, Caron Butler, and Lamar Odom into Dwyane Wade, Shaq, Gary Payton, Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker... and a championship. You know those guys eventually become LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Amare Stoudemire...etc

Recently, Riley has managed to get good production out of unknowns, like Tyler Johnson and Hassan Whiteside. Draft-wise, Richardson and Winslow have both turned into solid players, and Bam has talent. We’ll see about Herro. The guy who hasn’t panned out is Whiteside, but Rile turned his contract and a former 2nd round pick (Richardson) into Myers Leonard and Jimmy Butler. He also picked up Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters for nothing. On top of that, he brought Wade back and added Dragic. Given the cap restrictions, that is a fantastic haul.

The biggest names in basketball have played for this organization, and it is because of Riley. Did he get lucky? Sure. Did he get unlucky (Mourning and Bosh)? Yep.

But you can’t put 25 years of management down to lucky or unlucky. He’s gotten stars via free agency, trade, 1st rd picks, 2nd rd picks, undrafted players, resuscitated countless players’ careers...

Like BBallFreak said: go look at other franchises and see how many stars have played in those places. Few can match Miami.

My Lord....

I've waited so long...

For people who don't know him, SA37 is a freaking legend around here, but he was one of Riley's biggest critics for years and years. When I referenced having this discussion with in the past, this is the guy I had them with, and he was a beast! SA37 knows his stuff like few others...

[SA37]

My Lord....

I've waited so long...

For people who don't know him, SA37 is a freaking legend around here, but he was one of Riley's biggest critics for years and years. When I referenced having this discussion with in the past, this is the guy I had them with, and he was a beast! SA37 knows his stuff like few others...

I thought you’d appreciate that

I was laughing reading through some of the thread because it reminded me of the good old days hahaha.

Honestly, when Paul George went to the Clips with Leonard, I figured OKC would trade Westbrook. I really thought Riley was going to trade whoever to get him (or happily take CP3 instead), get Wade to play 1 more year, and sign Carmelo and Cousins or Howard to 1-year deals and roll out:

Westbrook/CP3
Wade
Butler
Melo
Cousins/Howard

[fishfuego.]

Wow, this thread has some RealGM hall of famers. SA37, BBallFreak and Heat3 lol.
I don't post much but I'm always lurking around.
IMHO, The Heat with the Likes of Rice and Steve were always fighting for the 8th seed at most. Very depressing times to not even be considered NBA legits, but always being mentioned as a expansion team, a joke, until 1995.

Riley is a Heat GOD!
What a feeling I had once I heard the news he was our new coach!

Being a Lakers fan with Riley/Magic Johnson to becoming a Heat fan since day one, I personally new that the Heat had struck gold.

[First Take]

My Lord....

I've waited so long...

For people who don't know him, SA37 is a freaking legend around here, but he was one of Riley's biggest critics for years and years. When I referenced having this discussion with in the past, this is the guy I had them with, and he was a beast! SA37 knows his stuff like few others...

I thought you’d appreciate that

I was laughing reading through some of the thread because it reminded me of the good old days hahaha.

Honestly, when Paul George went to the Clips with Leonard, I figured OKC would trade Westbrook. I really thought Riley was going to trade whoever to get him (or happily take CP3 instead), get Wade to play 1 more year, and sign Carmelo and Cousins or Howard to 1-year deals and roll out:

Westbrook/CP3
Wade
Butler
Melo
Cousins/Howard

I would love to see that team. That team could be a very underrated team or a very entertaining team. Unfortunately (as we know), Westbrook was dealt to Houston, CP3 to OKC, Wade retired, Cousins to LA and Howard to Memphis. However if Howard gets bought out, I can see Miami as a possible destination. Butler we got!

[heat4life]

The main objection here seems to be what Riley has done after Lebron James left. A good point if comparison would be: compare Miami’s situation to Cleveland’s. Cleveland lost James and traded Irving (more or less equivalent to losing LeBron and Bosh for Miami). Look where they are. Look at their roster.

It’s important to keep in mind the effect Chris Bosh’s retirement had on the organization and it’s plans. It was similar to what happened when Miami lost Alonzo Mourning. Suddenly re-signing Tim Hardaway didn’t look so good (although admittedly, Riley tried to get Gary Payton before re-signing Hardaway). Miami resurrected Anthony Mason (career year) and Rod Strickland (one of his better years as a pro, iirc) and got reasonable production out of Kendall Gill and Jim Jackson. Miami won 50 games with those guys.

Riley eventually turned Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, Caron Butler, and Lamar Odom into Dwyane Wade, Shaq, Gary Payton, Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker... and a championship. You know those guys eventually become LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Amare Stoudemire...etc

Recently, Riley has managed to get good production out of unknowns, like Tyler Johnson and Hassan Whiteside. Draft-wise, Richardson and Winslow have both turned into solid players, and Bam has talent. We’ll see about Herro. The guy who hasn’t panned out is Whiteside, but Rile turned his contract and a former 2nd round pick (Richardson) into Myers Leonard and Jimmy Butler. He also picked up Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters for nothing. On top of that, he brought Wade back and added Dragic. Given the cap restrictions, that is a fantastic haul.

The biggest names in basketball have played for this organization, and it is because of Riley. Did he get lucky? Sure. Did he get unlucky (Mourning and Bosh)? Yep.

But you can’t put 25 years of management down to lucky or unlucky. He’s gotten stars via free agency, trade, 1st rd picks, 2nd rd picks, undrafted players, resuscitated countless players’ careers...

Like BBallFreak said: go look at other franchises and see how many stars have played in those places. Few can match Miami.

This post is like watching the fall of the Berlin wall. SA37 and BBall agreeing on a Riley related topic. I think I can retire now

[BBallFreak]

So, uhm, not sure how well this thread has aged. Lol!

Kendrick Nunn looks like a future all star, as does Herro. Bam looks fantastic too.

So is Riley still the worst GM in the league?

[heat4life]

So, uhm, not sure how well this thread has aged. Lol!

Kendrick Nunn looks like a future all star, as does Herro. Bam looks fantastic too.

So is Riley still the worst GM in the league?

He will be again once one of those cats has a bad game

[Kobewade11]

Who is the best player on this team ?? Winslow, BAm, 34 years old Dragic, Tiler Johnson ? lol Pat and this front office have been screwing around for to long since Lebron left, whoever is the best player on this team would not even be the 2nd best player on any team in this league, not even the Hawks, not even the freaking knicks...This front office need to wake the foak up going for those safe role players picks year after year and signing journeymen and gleaguers to max contracts WTF, top 3 payroll and nothing to show for it, not even a Bol Bol for the fans because your capsace is so screwed that you need to save 1 million lol

Lol.

[contract]

He will be again once one of those cats has a bad game

I fully expect Nunn to come crashing back to earth. He's playing out of his mind, but his combination of size + athleticism doesn't look adequate to me.

[BFRESH44]

He will be again once one of those cats has a bad game

I fully expect Nunn to come crashing back to earth. He's playing out of his mind, but his combination of size + athleticism doesn't look adequate to me.

Of course you do, Pessimistic Peter.