Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central

EMC5466 · Post #1221 » by **EMC5466** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:55 am

I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Wolfy1983 · Post #1222 » by **Wolfy1983** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:31 am

Daffy wrote:
Wolfy1983 wrote:
Daffy wrote:I really don't understand this obsession of JJ and Dion over adding a game changer like Blake or Hayward.

First off, don't make me laugh by calling Fluff Griffin a game changer.Secondly, we are all on board with Hayward coming to Miami so I don't know why you are including him with the Conference Finals virgin.

Waiters has potential to be an all star caliber player and JJ is skilled on both ends of the floor. Griffin ain't gonna improve the team except maybe being the best bench warmer for the 20-30 games he is going to miss.

Fluff Griffin. Very unique.

Dion Waiters is what he is, an inefficient chucker. Let's discuss the amount of games Blake has missed, but pretend Waiters is reliable. I guess Waiters injuries and missed games are okay because he plays for us. Smh. Waiters has potential to be an all star while Blake IS currently an all star and has been his whole career. Let's just continue to foolishly believe that Dion Waiters will bring us more success than Blake can.

Waiters looked pretty reliable in the 2nd half of the season after coming back from injury. I don't see why he can't get better unless you are going to keep harping on his playing days in OKC and Cleveland?

Griffin is a better fit around a PG like Paul who can feed him easy lobs. That is all he is good for.

Wolfy1983 · Post #1223 » by **Wolfy1983** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:35 am

EMC5466 wrote:I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Let's ignore how poorly misused they were on those teams and let's focus on how better they became once Spo found they right line up and system for them to excel. When the hell did Blake Griffin become Tim Duncan all of a sudden? Some of you people popping your loads over his showtime dunks.

goodboy · Post #1224 » by **goodboy** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:47 am

Wolfy1983 wrote:
EMC5466 wrote:I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Let's ignore how poorly misused they were on those teams and let's focus on how better they became once Spo found they right line up and system for them to excel. When the hell did Blake Griffin become Tim Duncan all of a sudden? Some of you people popping your loads over his showtime dunks.

This.

the audacity eh.

HIF · Post #1225 » by **HIF** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:30 am

BBallFreak wrote:If we lose out on the whales, I would be fine bringing back our own players and adding a guy like Rudy Gay.

Pg: Dragic / TJ
Sg: Waiters / Richardson
Sf: Winslow / McGruder
Pf: Gay / J. Johnson
Cc: Whiteside / Bam

My problem with this, however, is it severely limits our ceiling IMO. We cannot push past the second round with that group unless Waiters suddenly becomes the player that he believes he is.

Beasley is better than Gay.

HIF · Post #1226 » by **HIF** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:32 am

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
TMIMITW wrote:So those who want Rudy Gay,

I ruptured my Achilles in November and had surgery in Dec buy Dr Nicola the Raiders surgeon. It has been over 8 months and I am just now starting to run limitedly once a week.
Things to note ....
*** I am military and have some great physical therapist
*** I had to learn how to walk all over again
*** Atrophy in my calf was ridiculous (its now half the size of the other one and that's huge progress)
*** The chances of me playing basketball before 1 year are 30%
*** The chances of me rupturing my other Achilles is 50%

Now I don't have 24hr Care and super treatment facilities but I am pretty damn close. Rudy Gay may never be the same and will be injury prone and nervous for two whole years

Think about it Mario Chalmers is younger and sat out 2 seasons, still haven't returned

This is why we are not flying to Texas to meet with Gay. At least I hope not.

Perhaps it's why Gay isn't flying out of texas.

Post #1227 » by **Wiltside** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:41 am

Seriously, can we bring Beas back for stint 5? Dude has actually quietly been really solid the past few seasons. He's built for the small ball era.

HIF · Post #1228 » by **HIF** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:59 am

jereseja wrote:
Daffy wrote:
Wolfy1983 wrote:

First off, don't make me laugh by calling Fluff Griffin a game changer.Secondly, we are all on board with Hayward coming to Miami so I don't know why you are including him with the Conference Finals virgin.

Waiters has potential to be an all star caliber player and JJ is skilled on both ends of the floor. Griffin ain't gonna improve the team except maybe being the best bench warmer for the 20-30 games he is going to miss.

Fluff Griffin. Very unique.

Dion Waiters is what he is, an inefficient chucker. Let's discuss the amount of games Blake has missed, but pretend Waiters is reliable. I guess Waiters injuries and missed games are okay because he plays for us. Smh. Waiters has potential to be an all star while Blake IS currently an all star and has been his whole career. Let's just continue to foolishly believe that Dion Waiters will bring us more success than Blake can.

Value
JJ 15mil>>>>>>>Blake 35mil
every day and twice on sunday
U must ask your self if u rather have Blake or JJ,Dion and Ellington.

You can get lots of "value" players at the minimum but you aren't winning any titles with them.

Value means nothing in the NBA, star quality is everything.

HIF · Post #1229 » by **HIF** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:04 am

Wolfy1983 wrote:
EMC5466 wrote:I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Let's ignore how poorly misused they were on those teams and let's focus on how better they became once Spo found they right line up and system for them to excel. When the hell did Blake Griffin become Tim Duncan all of a sudden? Some of you people popping your loads over his showtime dunks.

I'm all for you bigging up Dion and JJ - they're Heat players but enough with the Griffin crap. He's proven to be a game changer and team leader. Any team getting him automatically is in play for other big names and therefore contention.

People are not joining Miami because dion plays for us. He needs to prove himself by moving to a higher and more consistent level next season. In most people's eyes he's still a chucker - like fitting a team around Jamal Crawford back in the day.

Heat_Ler · Post #1230 » by **Heat_Ler** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:04 am

Bulls will eventually waive Rondo.
Any thoughts if we should chase him instead of Waiters?
Will he be a good fit at SG/PG as a duo for Dragic/TJ?

HIF · Post #1231 » by **HIF** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:05 am

Wiltside wrote:Seriously, can we bring Beas back for stint 5? Dude has actually quietly been really solid the past few seasons. He's built for the small ball era.

Exactly.

A man ahead of his time. A Tweener when we signed him, now close to perfection. :wink:

jereseja · Post #1232 » by **jereseja** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:11 am

HIF wrote:
jereseja wrote:
Daffy wrote:
Fluff Griffin. Very unique.

Dion Waiters is what he is, an inefficient chucker. Let's discuss the amount of games Blake has missed, but pretend Waiters is reliable. I guess Waiters injuries and missed games are okay because he plays for us. Smh. Waiters has potential to be an all star while Blake IS currently an all star and has been his whole career. Let's just continue to foolishly believe that Dion Waiters will bring us more success than Blake can.

Value
JJ 15mil>>>>>>>Blake 35mil
every day and twice on sunday
U must ask your self if u rather have Blake or JJ,Dion and Ellington.

You can get lots of "value" players at the minimum but you aren't winning any titles with them.

Value means nothing in the NBA, star quality is everything.

Yeah Blake is proven champ player.Never in conference final,injured every post season and with 35 mil prize tag.
Rather have 3xjj for the same prize than 1 injury prone Blake.
Blake is better player and all but not for 35mil with his history.

Mos_Heat · Post #1233 » by **Mos_Heat** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:12 am

Heat_Ler wrote:Any thoughts if we should chase him instead of Waiters?
Will he be a good fit at SG/PG as a duo for Dragic/TJ?

we shouldn't

no

Daffy · Post #1234 » by **Daffy** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:28 am

EMC5466 wrote:I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Thank you, although I must say JJ did impress me this season. I would be lying if I didn't give him that.

Daffy · Post #1235 » by **Daffy** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:29 am

HIF wrote:
Wolfy1983 wrote:
EMC5466 wrote:I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Let's ignore how poorly misused they were on those teams and let's focus on how better they became once Spo found they right line up and system for them to excel. When the hell did Blake Griffin become Tim Duncan all of a sudden? Some of you people popping your loads over his showtime dunks.

I'm all for you bigging up Dion and JJ - they're Heat players but enough with the Griffin crap. He's proven to be a game changer and team leader. Any team getting him automatically is in play for other big names and therefore contention.

People are not joining Miami because dion plays for us. He needs to prove himself by moving to a higher and more consistent level next season. In most people's eyes he's still a chucker - like fitting a team around Jamal Crawford back in the day.

Here we go. Someone gets it!!

Daffy · Post #1236 » by **Daffy** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:30 am

HeatWillRise wrote:
Wolfy1983 wrote:
EMC5466 wrote:I also don't understand the obsession with JJ and Waiters, they've been disappointments their entire careers except for a three month stretch.

Let's ignore how poorly misused they were on those teams and let's focus on how better they became once Spo found they right line up and system for them to excel. When the hell did Blake Griffin become Tim Duncan all of a sudden? Some of you people popping your loads over his showtime dunks.

This.

the audacity eh.

When did Dion become the next young Kobe or Wade?

puppa bear · Post #1237 » by **puppa bear** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:21 am

Okay, so I for one am looking forward to July 1 ticking over, and the meetings to start happening. Then we can use this pent up energy on analysing the actual moves we make rather than cherry picking perspectives to back up our views and arguing for the sake of arguing.

Having said that, here I go:

I honestly don't like Blake, but in the Blake vs JJ argument I land on the Blake side. I know it's not in a vacuum, but to me some of the arguments are misleading, or only using half the story to make a point:

1. You can only have 5 players on the court at once, so depth at a position is relative - if JJ can only play 27mpg then we need someone capable of playing 21mpg, while Blake playing 34mpg means they only need to play 14mpg. Is having JJ at half the price better when you still need someone else capable of playing now the same number of minutes?
2. Blake at twice the price of JJ is likely to attract a few other vet min players, so our value depth goes up - players like Ellington (not Ellington specifically, but players in the position he was in last year) might sign for vet min instead of us having to offer a decent wage.
3. Blake is considered injury prone, but he's been in the league for 1 less year than JJ and only played 3 less games. Is that a function of how JJ was used, or is he just as unreliable? Or is reliability in the eye of the beholder?
4. The West is brutal, and the MVP never had a chance to play in the WCF - does that make him less of an MVP? Or do we just need to acknowledge the West has been brutal for a while & move on?
5. Griffin has had CP dominating the ball - fourth quarter stats are irrelevant if CP is going hero-ball, which he has been known to do at times.
6. Griffin has the chance to earn a higher contract, and be the man on his team. So, unless he wants an easier path, or is wanting to unite with FAs we sign, this whole debate is moot.

RJM · Post #1238 » by **RJM** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:48 am

Heat_Ler wrote:Bulls will eventually waive Rondo.
Any thoughts if we should chase him instead of Waiters?
Will he be a good fit at SG/PG as a duo for Dragic/TJ?

I've got so many issues with everything above me. Where do I begin? :nonono:

Rapaz · Post #1239 » by **Rapaz** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:01 am

Heat_Ler wrote:Bulls will eventually waive Rondo.
Any thoughts if we should chase him instead of Waiters?
Will he be a good fit at SG/PG as a duo for Dragic/TJ?

Rondo is flabby, indecent and a complete failure

Spoiler:

Heat_Ler · Post #1240 » by **Heat_Ler** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:09 am

RJM wrote:
Heat_Ler wrote:Bulls will eventually waive Rondo.
Any thoughts if we should chase him instead of Waiters?
Will he be a good fit at SG/PG as a duo for Dragic/TJ?

I've got so many issues with everything above me. Where do I begin?

Well, I honestly think we don't have interest in him.
Just bring back Waiters and we'll be good.
Waiters is the best we can have at SG.