Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central

[Zasterror]

Off the sheer fact that he is no where near an impactful or versatile of a defender than JJ, Blake has no place here.

Defense rebound % JJ: 16.6% Blake: 20.2%
Defensive Win Shares JJ: 3.8 Blake 2.4
Defense Box +/- JJ: 2.8 Blake: 1.3
Block% JJ: 3.2% Blake: 0.9% (only category JJ got him beat by alot)
Steal% JJ: 1.8% Blake: 1.4%

Blake is in the same caliber of defender as JJ. Of course you won't stick Blake on guards but that why we have Winslow, Rich and Mcgruder

Bro, those stats further my point even more. 3.8 and 2.4 is a pretty decent margin in terms of Defensive Win Shares plus the Defensive +/- is also decidedly conclusive in this comparison. Blake is not a good defender despite his athletic gifts, JJ seems to have somewhat similar athletic gifts and managed to put them together defensively. Granted, JJ is the older player but it seems like Griffin is the least healthiest these days, which is always a bad sign.

JJ is the better fit.

[twix2500]

I have a feeling Pat will not offer the max to Gordon Hayward.

[Cmon_Son-_-]

Off the sheer fact that he is no where near an impactful or versatile of a defender than JJ, Blake has no place here.

Defense rebound % JJ: 16.6% Blake: 20.2%
Defensive Win Shares JJ: 3.8 Blake 2.4
Defense Box +/- JJ: 2.8 Blake: 1.3
Block% JJ: 3.2% Blake: 0.9% (only category JJ got him beat by alot)
Steal% JJ: 1.8% Blake: 1.4%

Blake is in the same caliber of defender as JJ. Of course you won't stick Blake on guards but that why we have Winslow, Rich and Mcgruder

Bro, those stats further my point even more. 3.8 and 2.4 is a pretty decent margin in terms of Defensive Win Shares plus the Defensive +/- is also decidedly conclusive in this comparison. Blake is not a good defender despite his athletic gifts, JJ seems to have somewhat similar athletic gifts and managed to put them together defensively. Granted, JJ is the older player but it seems like Griffin is the least healthiest these days, which is always a bad sign.

JJ is the better fit.

3.8 was a typo its actually 3.4. but No thats not a decent margin. A decent margin is for example comparing their offensive win shares which is 5.4 Blake, 1.9 JJ There shows a large discrepancy in impact.

You can't call Blake a bad defender then prop up JJ's defense when the numbers show its not much better.

[RexBoyWonder]

Haven't change my inital stance :

Hayward
JJ

Blake


Dion is all about price - anything around 10 per is good value, anything more then 12.5 is risky, anything above 15 is russian rolette.

[Cmon_Son-_-]

Another thing is Blake is older than Hassan by less than a month. Blake is a better player than Hassan.
Blake at 30 Mil year yields the same value as Hassan at 25 Mil.

[The Dawg]

Off the sheer fact that he is no where near an impactful or versatile of a defender than JJ, Blake has no place here.

[Heat_Fan_87]

I have a feeling Pat will not offer the max to Gordon Hayward.

i think he will, but he will also offer scenarios where "if you take __$_____ less, than we can also add _____player x___"

[Flash4thewin]

Tyler Johnson's contract is single most overstated thing on this entire board. We really need stop collectively peddling this narrative that is he some albatross, because it's simply not true.

TJ is an ascending asset. This is not someone trending downward. He's an athletic, 25 year old combo guard, that is a plus defender that can shoot the 3 at a 38% clip. There is tremendous value for young plus defenders that can shoot 3 at an efficient clip in today's league. This notion that he is some complete albatross is ridiculous. If TJ was an unrestricted free agent in this current free agent market, he would get the same 50 MM over 4 years that he got last year.

He's going to be "bad value" in terms of his salary cap hit, for all of one season. Because if he continues on the trend he's been on, he's almost a near lock to opt out of last year of his deal, to cash in on more years of security. And we will be very fortunate to have his full bird rights by then.

One can try to spin it but the basic question is TJ worth 20 mil a year? The answer is no, that simple. We chose to match this and yes it is a bad contract. He is a negative because of his contract. TJ will need draft picks to be moved. In order for us to rebuild or try to contend we can not give TJ a bench player 20 mil a year. TJ at 12 mil is ok but at a cap hit of 20 mil no way and thats the sad reality of it. The part i love about this story is TJ could have taken the same contract but spead out evenly at 12+ mil but chose not too so he wont get traded. That says it all basically.

[HEATVols865]

I have a feeling Pat will not offer the max to Gordon Hayward.

i think he will, but he will also offer scenarios where "if you take __$_____ less, than we can also add _____player x___"

That's exactly what he will do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Flash4thewin]

I have a feeling Pat will not offer the max to Gordon Hayward.

i think he will, but he will also offer scenarios where "if you take __$_____ less, than we can also add _____player x___"

That's exactly what he will do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah thats going to fail to be honest. If we had talent like the Warriors i could see the argument but here it just seems to far fetched. Anything is possible but that doesnt mean anything will happen.

[BFRESH44]

Tyler Johnson's contract is single most overstated thing on this entire board. We really need stop collectively peddling this narrative that is he some albatross, because it's simply not true.

TJ is an ascending asset. This is not someone trending downward. He's an athletic, 25 year old combo guard, that is a plus defender that can shoot the 3 at a 38% clip. There is tremendous value for young plus defenders that can shoot 3 at an efficient clip in today's league. This notion that he is some complete albatross is ridiculous. If TJ was an unrestricted free agent in this current free agent market, he would get the same 50 MM over 4 years that he got last year.

He's going to be "bad value" in terms of his salary cap hit, for all of one season. Because if he continues on the trend he's been on, he's almost a near lock to opt out of last year of his deal, to cash in on more years of security. And we will be very fortunate to have his full bird rights by then.

One can try to spin it but the basic question is TJ worth 20 mil a year? The answer is no, that simple. We chose to match this and yes it is a bad contract. He is a negative because of his contract. TJ will need draft picks to be moved. In order for us to rebuild or try to contend we can not give TJ a bench player 20 mil a year. TJ at 12 mil is ok but at a cap hit of 20 mil no way and thats the sad reality of it. The part i love about this story is TJ could have taken the same contract but spead out evenly at 12+ mil but chose not too so he wont get traded. That says it all basically.

Tyler Johnson doesn't make "20 million a year". Stop with the fake news, bro. His annual average is 12.5 over 4, with a back loaded cap structure. As it presently stands now, that cap structure BENEFITS the Heat today, as we'd have less cap space to work with this summer, had he taken the deal that was evenly spread. You can't whine about the 19.2 million, but fail to acknowledge the insanely good cap hit the team presently has for $5.8 million.

[Bishop45]

Another thing is Blake is older than Hassan by less than a month. Blake is a better player than Hassan.
Blake at 30 Mil year yields the same value as Hassan at 25 Mil.

I'm probably JJ's only fan if he doesn't come here last season, he's great but I can't condone this foolishness. Lawd

Public perception made this level of disrespect okay, iz ridicoulous

[J-House]

Can Pat and Danny Ainge just fist fight and whoever wins gets Hayward? You know Pat would fight dirty.

[Heat_Fan_87]

i think he will, but he will also offer scenarios where "if you take __$_____ less, than we can also add _____player x___"

That's exactly what he will do.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah thats going to fail to be honest. If we had talent like the Warriors i could see the argument but here it just seems to far fetched. Anything is possible but that doesnt mean anything will happen.

It might fail, but pat would be a fool not to try. hayward knows our roster, he knows who we have and how much money we have, knowing all this he is choosing to come to miami and meat with us. pat will sell him, and if hayward wants to be here, i can see him taking 26 the first year instead of 29 to sign someone else.

[Wolfy1983]

I don't trust Dion with that roster construction. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. With Whiteside, Hayward, and Dragic running the point, Dion becomes that whinny spot up shooter who forces bad shots we saw in Cleveland.

It wouldnt be fair to our team nor to him.

Waiters showed more than just being a spot up shooter. The guy improved tremendously at finishing at the basket. J-Rich is not starting 2-guard material. He doesn't have the handles to be one.

This past season Waiters had a FG% at the rim (0-3 feet from basket) of 50.7%. For his career, Waiters ahs a FG% at the rim of 51.9%. Those are bad numbers.

This past season JRich had a FG% at the rim of 55.2%. For his career, JRich has a FG% at the rim of 57.7%.

Your perception of Waiters' ability to finish well at the rim is probably due to him converting some crazy and acrobatic attempts. The problem is, he takes bad shots. When they go in, it's impressive and you feel like you're watching Wade again (career 57% fg % at rim, with his prime years being closer to 70%). BUt, the problem is he misses them way too frequently.

the JRich we saw his rookie year and towards the end of this season is absolutely a starting caliber 2-guard. He's best as an off-ball player and maybe occasional secondary ballhandler. He's 3 and D with upside.

Waiters is obviously the better player now, but in the scenarios we're discussion, skillset complements and roster distribution point towards JRich being a nice fit for us at the 2-spot.

Look, i'm not gonna throw numbers down your way. The stats say that he is average, but I go by the eye test and the guy finishing abilities got better during his time in Miami. I'm not gonna go with stats for his stays in Cleveland and OKC. Richardson has not yet shown that he can create his own shot.

This may not be a fair comparison to make but the majority of Kyrie's lay ups are crazy acrobatic shots. If they go in than who is to judge?

[islandHEAT]

The deal has already been made...

"Johnson said he has no visits scheduled with any teams and hasn’t spoken to the Heat recently about his future, though Heat president Pat Riley has publicly expressed a desire to retain him."

Read on Twitter

[J-House]

The deal has already been made...

"Johnson said he has no visits scheduled with any teams and hasn’t spoken to the Heat recently about his future, though Heat president Pat Riley has publicly expressed a desire to retain him."

Read on Twitter

That's CULTURE right there. JJ is the man.

[J-House]

That leads me to believe that JJ is going to be in Hayward's ear

[BFRESH44]

“I'm a patient guy,” Johnson told me at DJ Irie’s annual golf tournament to benefit the Irie Foundation. “They can take as long as they want. My mindset is winning. I think Hayward can help us win and I'm all for it. They brought me here for a reason and I know they're going after Hayward for a reason and I think his statistics and his numbers that he [produces], he fits in the best here.

Put 16 up in the rafters right now.

[greg4012]

Look, i'm not gonna throw numbers down your way. The stats say that he is average, but I go by the eye test and the guy finishing abilities got better during his time in Miami. I'm not gonna go with stats for his stays in Cleveland and OKC. Richardson has not yet shown that he can create his own shot.

This may not be a fair comparison to make but the majority of Kyrie's lay ups are crazy acrobatic shots. If they go in than who is to judge?

The bolded is exactly the point. When Dion converts the crazy finishes it is impressive and it's fun to watch. But, if he doesn't convert at a high enough rate, it's simply inefficient basketball. Kyrie throws up some wild acrobatic shots at the rim. But, guess what? Kyrie's gf% at the rim last season was 60.3%

Wade in his prime was a master slasher and threw up insane looks around the basket. But he converted them at an elite rate. D Wade's fg% at the rim was 64.5% or greater for each season from 2006-2016 (high of 73% in 2013).

Dion Waiters actually had his worst season of his career with regards to FG% at the rim this year in Miami(always hovering between 50% and 55%). So, I'm not at all convinced it's some improving skill of his that he just unearthed.

I honestly don't even know what the scope of this back and forth is, I'm just pointing out some facts to calm your excessive faith in Waiters' value. I definitely agree that in a vacuum he's a better offensive player than JRich today.

JRich can be a very solid starting 2 in the NBA if he's playing alongside on-ball players. Hes a catch and shoot player that is best served playing off the ball where he can (a) catch and shoot; (b) dribble-drive; and (c) cut to the basket