2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 3

[Tim_Hardawayy]

There isn't some huge Herro fanbase on this board, he gets crapped on regularly, people just want consistency. If you think its OK to crap on Tyler cause he'll never make it and fawn over guys like Reaves instead, then you should have no problem when others do it for guys like Julius Randle in reference to Bam. On the flipside, if you want to defend Bam's honor and be insulted when people desperately praise the Randles/Collins of the world to denigrate Bam, you ought to have the same takes for Herro vs the Reaves/Lavines. Otherwise it just looks like you're a player fan picking favorites, not a Heat fan.

I agree the jury's still out on Herro long term, nor do I disagree that the gap between Tyler and Reaves is massive, but there's definitely a gap, and if we're giving up on Tyler I'd much rather it be a pure upgrade than for a guy whose older, and whose CEILING is Tyler Herro. That's just sad.

EDIT: I'd also consider Tyler for picks/spare parts depending what direction we go in. But thinking we're going to replace him with Austin Reaves and it be an upgrade is delusional.

I’m not advocating Reaves to be better or that we should swap the 2, it would be a pointless move and leave us in the same spot we’re currently in

I appreciate the common sense, I'd even argue Reaves is a downgrade especially considering we just drafted what looks to be a legit true point guard (I haven't commented yet but after watching tape of JK I'm salivating a little not gonna lie, Bam's going to eat good with him).

The only thing I like with Reaves over Tyler is ball handling, but if this kid is the real deal, then he provides nothing better than Tyler and Tyler's the better fit in that situation anyways.

[carnageta]

Tyler’s playoffs career: 14-4-3 on 52TS% with 0 defense whatsoever. Was out for the 2023 finals run, was a non factor for the 2022 run, now tell me what he’s done in a Heat jersey to be revered this way amongst some in the fanbase? Is it because you all think he’s cool? It can’t be because of his production, it just can’t. It’s something deeper

Hopefully I can get this answered while we’re at it. I wasn’t going to turn it into a Bam and Herro thing but others went that way with it. Why do the same people that love Herro so much and defend him to the grave drag Bam through the mud all the time despite him doing FAR more in a Heat jersey and helping us see FAR more success as a team?

For me personally, I don't really attack either guy, or drag them through 'graves' lol.

It's clear they both have weaknesses, but are also excellent in a lot of areas.


My stance is that Herro can be the 2nd best scorer on a contender, but not the 2nd best player. Bam can be the 2nd best player on a contender, but not the 2nd best scorer.

In this regard, they both compliment each other really well. Now we just need to go out and get that superstar so the rest can fall into place.

[Wiltside]

For the record, Herro is a better player than Reaves. But IMO, the difference is not so significant to have that big of a contract disparity.

Still, I think Herro gets underrated regularly and Reaves overrated because he’s a Laker. It is what it is.

Monk is a clear tier below either player, but solid enough as a spot starter or sixth man bucket getter. A modern day Jamal Crawford type.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Tyler’s playoffs career: 14-4-3 on 52TS% with 0 defense whatsoever. Was out for the 2023 finals run, was a non factor for the 2022 run, now tell me what he’s done in a Heat jersey to be revered this way amongst some in the fanbase? Is it because you all think he’s cool? It can’t be because of his production, it just can’t. It’s something deeper

Hopefully I can get this answered while we’re at it. I wasn’t going to turn it into a Bam and Herro thing but others went that way with it. Why do the same people that love Herro so much and defend him to the grave drag Bam through the mud all the time despite him doing FAR more in a Heat jersey and helping us see FAR more success as a team?

For me personally, I don't really attack either guy, or drag them through 'graves' lol.

It's clear they both have weaknesses, but are also excellent in a lot of areas.


My stance is that Herro can be the 2nd best scorer on a contender, but not the 2nd best player. Bam can be the 2nd best player on a contender, but not the 2nd best scorer.

In this regard, they both compliment each other really well. Now we just need to go out and get that superstar so the rest can fall into place.

Now this is a fair rational take. Personally I'm going to root for the Lakers to have a disastrous season under new ownership so Luka can bail to South Beach.

JK
Herro
Luka
Bam
Ware

Defense would be a struggle but I think they could figure it out. Maybe flip Tyler for someone more defense first.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Tyler’s playoffs career: 14-4-3 on 52TS% with 0 defense whatsoever. Was out for the 2023 finals run, was a non factor for the 2022 run, now tell me what he’s done in a Heat jersey to be revered this way amongst some in the fanbase? Is it because you all think he’s cool? It can’t be because of his production, it just can’t. It’s something deeper

Hopefully I can get this answered while we’re at it. I wasn’t going to turn it into a Bam and Herro thing but others went that way with it. Why do the same people that love Herro so much and defend him to the grave drag Bam through the mud all the time despite him doing FAR more in a Heat jersey and helping us see FAR more success as a team?

For me personally, I don't really attack either guy, or drag them through 'graves' lol.

It's clear they both have weaknesses, but are also excellent in a lot of areas.


My stance is that Herro can be the 2nd best scorer on a contender, but not the 2nd best player. Bam can be the 2nd best player on a contender, but not the 2nd best scorer.

In this regard, they both compliment each other really well. Now we just need to go out and get that superstar so the rest can fall into place.

FWIW I don’t lump you into the group I’m asking about but there is a handful of slightly more who I do.

I agree with your post.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

For the record, Herro is a better player than Reaves. But IMO, the difference is not so significant to have that big of a contract disparity.

Still, I think Herro gets underrated regularly and Reaves overrated because he’s a Laker. It is what it is.

Monk is a clear tier below either player, but solid enough as a spot starter or sixth man bucket getter. A modern day Jamal Crawford type.

The exact stance I was taking that threw the board into a frenzy, that’s my bad I guess lol.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I think Reaves gives you the bigger package. Herro’s T-Rex arms likely results in a smaller package. So the question is do you want the bigger and craftier package, or the smaller but more experienced package?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

There isn't some huge Herro fanbase on this board, he gets crapped on regularly, people just want consistency. If you think its OK to crap on Tyler cause he'll never make it and fawn over guys like Reaves instead, then you should have no problem when others do it for guys like Julius Randle in reference to Bam. On the flipside, if you want to defend Bam's honor and be insulted when people desperately praise the Randles/Collins of the world to denigrate Bam, you ought to have the same takes for Herro vs the Reaves/Lavines. Otherwise it just looks like you're a player fan picking favorites, not a Heat fan.

I agree the jury's still out on Herro long term, nor do I disagree that the gap between Tyler and Reaves is massive, but there's definitely a gap, and if we're giving up on Tyler I'd much rather it be a pure upgrade than for a guy whose older, and whose CEILING is Tyler Herro. That's just sad.

EDIT: I'd also consider Tyler for picks/spare parts depending what direction we go in. But thinking we're going to replace him with Austin Reaves and it be an upgrade is delusional.

I’m not advocating Reaves to be better or that we should swap the 2, it would be a pointless move and leave us in the same spot we’re currently in

I appreciate the common sense, I'd even argue Reaves is a downgrade especially considering we just drafted what looks to be a legit true point guard (I haven't commented yet but after watching tape of JK I'm salivating a little not gonna lie, Bam's going to eat good with him).

The only thing I like with Reaves over Tyler is ball handling, but if this kid is the real deal, then he provides nothing better than Tyler and Tyler's the better fit in that situation anyways.

I am hoping the rookie is going to get on the same page with both of our bigs pretty quickly and we’ll finally have someone to consistently get them easy baskets. Someone who sees the play before it happens to the point it even catches Bam and Ware off guard. There will obviously be some growing pains in building the connection and due to his youth but our lack of perimeter playing is arguably our biggest need next to a true first option, part of me hates it may be reliant all on a rookie though.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Also its very premature to predict anything, but this feels similar to the season going into 09-10 when some posters wanted Riley fired for wasting Wade's prime. If (huge, massive, gargantuan if) we hit big next year and land a Luka/Ant or something, instead of pinning our next few years on 37 year old KD, they will owe someone an apology. Guess we'll see.

[Wiltside]

For the record, Herro is a better player than Reaves. But IMO, the difference is not so significant to have that big of a contract disparity.

Still, I think Herro gets underrated regularly and Reaves overrated because he’s a Laker. It is what it is.

Monk is a clear tier below either player, but solid enough as a spot starter or sixth man bucket getter. A modern day Jamal Crawford type.

The exact stance I was taking that threw the board into a frenzy, that’s my bad I guess lol.

Yes, but your stance comes with some additional antagonistic mayo on top 3ammy

Put simply, I’d take Reaves at $22m over Herro at $50m. I don’t think he’s twice as good a player. If Herro was at $30m, I’d take Herro as he’s a better offensive player and both have their defensive limitations.

If Ware can develop and be a top shelf defender, having two bigs in Bam and Ware that can compensate for Kasper and Herro being weaker defenders makes it a more workable long term solution. Need a wing that’s a plus defender too - not sure Kuminga is that yet, but he has the tools to be. All comes down to whether we believe we can coach him to put more effort in and fix bad habits.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I think Reaves gives you the bigger package. Herro’s T-Rex arms likely results in a smaller package. So the question is do you want the bigger and craftier package, or the smaller but more experienced package?

According to Katya Herro has a tiny package, she seemed to not care anymore after he signed that $120M contract though.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

For the record, Herro is a better player than Reaves. But IMO, the difference is not so significant to have that big of a contract disparity.

Still, I think Herro gets underrated regularly and Reaves overrated because he’s a Laker. It is what it is.

Monk is a clear tier below either player, but solid enough as a spot starter or sixth man bucket getter. A modern day Jamal Crawford type.

The exact stance I was taking that threw the board into a frenzy, that’s my bad I guess lol.

Yes, but your stance comes with some additional antagonistic mayo on top 3ammy

Put simply, I’d take Reaves at $22m over Herro at $50m. I don’t think he’s twice as good a player. If Herro was at $30m, I’d take Herro as he’s a better offensive player and both have their defensive limitations.

If Ware can develop and be a top shelf defender, having two bigs in Bam and Ware that can compensate for Kasper and Herro being weaker defenders makes it a more workable long term solution. Need a wing that’s a plus defender too - not sure Kuminga is that yet, but he has the tools to be. All comes down to whether we believe we can coach him to put more effort in and fix bad habits.

I’m just here for a good time

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I am hoping the rookie is going to get on the same page with both of our bigs pretty quickly and we’ll finally have someone to consistently get them easy baskets. Someone who sees the play before it happens to the point it even catches Bam and Ware off guard. There will obviously be some growing pains in building the connection and due to his youth but our lack of perimeter playing is arguably our biggest need next to a true first option, part of me hates it may be reliant all on a rookie though.

Unfortunately this team is in a situation where it needs rooks to exceed expectations, that's how it starts and things start to snowball, it opens up everything. Either they keep making leaps and you become an OKC or Indiana with homegrown talent leading the way, or they get good enough to be used in a package for the star you've been targeting.

Thankfully most of our recent draft picks have mostly panned out and are positive value, hoping JJJ can get back into that win column himself next year now that he knows his role and no Jimmy distractions.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Also its very premature to predict anything, but this feels similar to the season going into 09-10 when some posters wanted Riley fired for wasting Wade's prime. If (huge, massive, gargantuan if) we hit big next year and land a Luka/Ant or something, instead of pinning our next few years on 37 year old KD, they will owe someone an apology. Guess we'll see.

I will gladly apologize to Patrick if he gets Luka or Ant within next summer or the following

[Vertical Limit]

Me personally, if the kings called and said we want Herro we will give you Monk and Derozan, im pulling the trigger before they come to their senses.. and the kings can be the ones who give Herro 3/150 million

Guys like herro, reeves, giddey, coby white, lavine.. i have them all in the same tier.. theyre not stars, theyre roleplayers and definitely not a first or second option on a real contending championship team.

If some stupid team wants to give Herro 3 years 150 million, Reeves 4 years 120/130 million, lavine 5 years 215 million… that is their stupid problem. It cant be the Heat’s problem. We are not the Hornets where they sign these Gordon Hayward types to 4 years 120 and treadmill with that limited talent.

[EMC5466]

Funeral atmosphere on Portland sports radio today. They really hate the Chinese kid that the team drafted.

[MorbidHEAT]

Alright… but the real question is which gives you the biggest package?!

….

[insfo]

For the record, Herro is a better player than Reaves. But IMO, the difference is not so significant to have that big of a contract disparity.

Still, I think Herro gets underrated regularly and Reaves overrated because he’s a Laker. It is what it is.

Monk is a clear tier below either player, but solid enough as a spot starter or sixth man bucket getter. A modern day Jamal Crawford type.

The exact stance I was taking that threw the board into a frenzy, that’s my bad I guess lol.

Yes, but your stance comes with some additional antagonistic mayo on top 3ammy

Put simply, I’d take Reaves at $22m over Herro at $50m. I don’t think he’s twice as good a player. If Herro was at $30m, I’d take Herro as he’s a better offensive player and both have their defensive limitations.

If Ware can develop and be a top shelf defender, having two bigs in Bam and Ware that can compensate for Kasper and Herro being weaker defenders makes it a more workable long term solution. Need a wing that’s a plus defender too - not sure Kuminga is that yet, but he has the tools to be. All comes down to whether we believe we can coach him to put more effort in and fix bad habits.

Herro is making $30m for the next 2 season. The $50m per could be his potential salary during the 2027-2028 season!! Think about it, he hasn’t even signed it, yet here we are doomsdaying it, comparing it to everyone else’s salary today.

That is arguing in bad faith, and that is a constant on here

[SA37]

Yes, absolutely! In Miami, in place of Herro, his usage skyrockets, defensive game plans are geared specifically towards him, and he has no one to take the pressure off. This is exactly why things like per36 are so useless because they don't take other circumstances into account. He's no longer the third guy, he's THE ONLY GUY! Night in, night out! That takes a toll on a player.

The Bam disrespect is getting WILD.

We all saw how well Bam did alleviating pressure from Herro. I love Bam, but he's a third option.

This.

I will give Bam a little bit of a break because he is on a team that consistently has one of the most garbage offenses season after season. I don't think he has any inclination to be an offensive monster, so I don't know how much being in another system would change our opinion of Adebayo. He has developed a mid-range game and and now a 3-point shot. So he has clearly worked to become an offensive threat.

I just don't know how much of his lack of aggressiveness on offense is him and how much is him playing within the constraints of a bad offensive system for his output.

[SA37]

We all saw how well Bam did alleviating pressure from Herro. I love Bam, bit he's a third option.

Is this in reference to the playoffs series where Herro was unable to score on Sam Merrill Max Strus and Ty Jerome?

That’s fine if you think he’s a 3rd option, behind 2 elite players/scorers seems like a great recipe for success. What is Tyler though, like on good winning teams that make postseason runs? Because we have 0 evidence he can contribute when the playoffs come around being heavily involved. So you can say 1st (hopefully not) or 2nd but we don’t know that for a fact.

Everyone forgets his rookie season, like it didn't happen or something, but on one thing, we agree. He's a second or third option at best. That doesn't, however, mean that Reaves can produce like a second option under the same circumstances. It's interesting to me that you need proof with Herro (when such proof actually exists) but not with Reaves...

I think it is a moot point because everything indicates the Lakers want to keep Reaves and he wants to be in LA.

In any case, just like Kuminga, if someone were to sign Reaves, you're betting on what he might be. If we knew he'd be a 1st/2nd option/produce like Herro (or better) in Herro's role...etc, then the Lakers would pay him accordingly and wouldn't risk losing him.

Miami bet on Eddie Jones being a 2nd option and paid him max money for it and it went miserably for Miami. Orlando bet on McGrady and they got that one 100% correct.

You've got to be willing to take a risk based on your assessment of a player. I think Reaves could be even better than Herro in a primary role. He's really, really skillful and can shoot really well.