Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[IceColdCubano]

I can't understand why any fan should argue about Butler's extension. He's the Heat's best player, works the hardest for our success, and also demonstrates the culture of the team. He is a natural leader. You don't question this kind of choice. We are lucky to have the opportunity. You sign him and build around him. I keep Bam too. The others can go or stay depending on what we need to do. I like our young players and understand the need to build internally (with Jovic & JJJ), but every team has young talent to develop. Butler is special.

No one is arguing about paying Jimmy in 2024. It's 2026 and 2027 that are the problem. At that point he will no longer be our best player ... or if he is then the team is **** and it won't matter if he's on the roster or not.

He wasn't the best player at anytime this season outside of 3 game out 55 he played, what is the expectation moving forward????

[dolphinatik]

Paying him is an easy out for why we can't improve. Askari waiting to flip the light on in the playoffs doesn't work. High level basketball at all times should be the goal.

[Kobewade11]

It is interesting that some people that spent years furious about a 35 year old Wade leaving now dont want to pay Jimmy. He may not be Wade, but Wade’s best years were also behind him too.

Totally different that was a mess up by -

Wrong. LeKlutch talked his bff into opting out of his deal under the guise that they would all re-up. He could have (and should have) opted into his deal the summer of 2014, we would have never been in that predicament in 2016.

[contract]

...

[AirP.]

Jimmy is 35 next season. He's not ever going to get younger or healthier or better. It's all downhill. Every single offseason I post a list of the guys in their mid-30s and older that average even 15 points per game, and every year it's a handful of names, and as the age goes up, the number goes down. Even if Jimmy can squeeze out another 20 ppg season, he is extremely unlikely to squeeze out two, and I'm not down with paying a guy > $50 million to score 15 ppg.

The solution is to not extend Jimmy and not give that money to a newer version of Waiters, J.Johnson and T.Johnson. This is where Pat has to earn his salary.

Jimmy is going to want an extension. Say no but agree to find him a team that is willing to extend him.

Here’s the thing, after basically dragging us to two finals, three eastern finals, not giving him help. To not give him the extension is to incur his wrath. Jimmy can and will burn this team to the ground. Just pay the man, it’s just one year, it’s a feel good story we can sell to future free agents, the alternative is photoshop Jimmy face in that meme with the little girl starting the fire watching the whole house burn down.

Reality has been skewed over time; he didn’t drag this team to the finals in 2020 or last season. The best argument would be 2022.

2020 everyone was hoopin, last season after the Bucks series he averaged 24-7-6 on 42/30/80 shooting splits. Injured I know but he didn’t drag us to the finals.

Not exactly correct, without Butler carrying the team in games it couldn't win Miami wouldn't have gotten so far. Butler doesn't "carry" the team every game, but with him being a 2-way player it allows the coach the ability to play more offensively skewed lesser players which can let you win games that the scoring doesn't come from your stars.

Miami is in a unique situation with its 2 best players being high level 2-way players that aren't worried about their shots, it allows a coach to not have to play so many defensive role-players.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

If that’s the basis of a deal that’s a no brainer. Add sweetener if needed

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Here’s the thing, after basically dragging us to two finals, three eastern finals, not giving him help. To not give him the extension is to incur his wrath. Jimmy can and will burn this team to the ground. Just pay the man, it’s just one year, it’s a feel good story we can sell to future free agents, the alternative is photoshop Jimmy face in that meme with the little girl starting the fire watching the whole house burn down.

Reality has been skewed over time; he didn’t drag this team to the finals in 2020 or last season. The best argument would be 2022.

2020 everyone was hoopin, last season after the Bucks series he averaged 24-7-6 on 42/30/80 shooting splits. Injured I know but he didn’t drag us to the finals.

Not exactly correct, without Butler carrying the team in games it couldn't win Miami wouldn't have gotten so far. Butler doesn't "carry" the team every game, but with him being a 2-way player it allows the coach the ability to play more offensively skewed lesser players which can let you win games that the scoring doesn't come from your stars.

Miami is in a unique situation with its 2 best players being high level 2-way players that aren't worried about their shots, it allows a coach to not have to play so many defensive role-players.

Right but that could be said for any star that makes a deep run basically, it’s just being worded as he was a one man show dropping 50 every night while everyone else was **** the bed lol he was definitely our best player and likely still is health permitting but it was a collective effort all around.

[greg4012]

Brandon Ingram is my clear favorite to be pursued using Tyler Herro. Both Jeff Schwartz clients that I think will be in his clients best interest for him to broker a deal between the Pels and Heat. I don't expect us to have very much competition for Ingram and I think he and the Pels also want to move on from each other. The fit between him and Williamson has not been good. Here in Miami he'll have the freedom to play small ball 4 at 6'8 with his 7'3 wingspan. Before anyone mentions Herro's fit with CJ McCollum, I really don't think that will matter much to them as they will most likely be looking to move him this year or next as well when he'll be entering the final year of his deal.

They also have plenty of lengthy wings on that team to cover up the defensive short comings. Ingram might not be the shiny star everyone wants but for what we are offering he looks to be the most obtainable. I would also suggest letting him play out the final year of his deal and earning his next contact with us. If things don't work out we have a 36 million dollar salary slot opening up. I did not even mention most likely Larry Nance Jr being included in the deal who we have tried to get plenty of times who is also on an expiring deal. So potential to free up close to 48 million.

Read on Twitter

https://heavy.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/trade-brandon-ingram-bam-adebayo/



Williamson loves him some Tyler Herro

Agreed--I think everything in NO has always been Zion-centric and the result is BI constantly shifting roles that are not always based on catering to his strengths. I think the higher volume 3-pt shooting seen from Ingram in his 2020 and 2021 seasons are closer to how Spo would use him.

It's a little intimidating to commit a huge contract to BI, but at least he's young (same age as Bam) and clearly fits a long-term window. He can do a ton of things and multi-faceted forwards are what the NBA runs on.

As for Herro fit in NO. I think the perspective should be that Herro is the new McCollum for them (moreso than how they fit together). Herro is actually quite a bit like McCollum.

Obviously the dream of Mitchell & Durant is more exciting (Durant's age keeps it a Jimmy window play exclusively tho), but BI may actually be realistic. And his putrid playoff outing only helps in that regard. He was absolutely hurt and playing a 1 seed with great defense that mostly had to just focus on stopping him. Those wanting to ignore that context is exactly why a buy-low opportunity may exist.

I'm with it.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Read on Twitter

If that’s the basis of a deal that’s a no brainer. Add sweetener if needed

would rather keep Jovic over JJJ.

Jovic is a more rare player, with his skillset at 6'10... who is showing flashes already.


JJJ is a replaceable wing guy.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

in fact, just went to YT to remind myself of Jovic in g2.

The Heat should not even consider trading Jovic, only 20 years old at his skillset and size.

Send JJJ off with Herro.

Watch on YouTube

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

If that’s the basis of a deal that’s a no brainer. Add sweetener if needed

would rather keep Jovic over JJJ.

Jovic is a more rare player, with his skillset at 6'10... who is showing flashes already.


JJJ is a replaceable wing guy.

They can both go for all I care if it means getting someone like Mitchell

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Damn contract you going back on your word or what haha?!

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

If that’s the basis of a deal that’s a no brainer. Add sweetener if needed

would rather keep Jovic over JJJ.

Jovic is a more rare player, with his skillset at 6'10... who is showing flashes already.


JJJ is a replaceable wing guy.

They can both go for all I care if it means getting someone like Mitchell

At this point I could care less about any upside Players we have since it means nothing in our immediate future without talent. I cannot deal with us running this ish back, but they must pick a fcking lane. Either go young and pivot into a rebuild or upgrade significantly and go for it. This yeah, trade this piece but not this one which means we never make the deal happen and are stuck in the same time loop, nah that's not it. If Cleveland wants the 2024 Pick + Jovic and JJJ + Herro you give it to them.

[contract]

Here's the entire list of players aged 35 or more that played at least 60 games and averaged at least 15 ppg this season.

Kevin Durant (35) - 27.1 ppg
Steph Curry (36) - 26.4 ppg
Lebron James (39) - 25.7 ppg

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=PTS*GE*15:AGE*GE*35:GP*GE*60

And here's the entire list of players aged 35 or more that played at least 50 games and averaged at least 15 ppg this season.

Kevin Durant (35) - 27.1 ppg
Steph Curry (36) - 26.4 ppg
Lebron James (39) - 25.7 ppg
Bojan Bogdanovic (35) - 15.2 ppg

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=PTS*GE*15:AGE*GE*35:GP*GE*50

[contract]

Damn contract you going back on your word or what haha?!

I decided to remove myself from the conversation before I stroked out.

[batterybro42]

NBA free agents in 2026

Bam (Bird Rights) Luka, Tatum, Brunson, Mitchell, Butler, Irving, Porzingis, Durrant, Fox, Curry, Dame, Trae Young, and Randle

Luka - no chance he leaves Dallas.

Tatum - nope, staying in Boston.

Brunson - possible.

Mitchell - very possible.

Irving - Mickey gives kyrie the side-eye ever since the comments

Porzingis - finesse guy, injury prone, we shouldn't want him

Durant - ship has sailed, will be 38... too old, plus he's an idiot. Imagine if KD had put himself in Miami's hands instead of GS, or BRKLN, or PHX.

Curry - no chance, he's retiring in GS



i just don't see it.

this sucks, but losing out on Dame was the nail in the coffin for this group. The Suns are not going to make KD available per reports lately... so there's nobody to trade for.

Is Luka going to leave Dallas? If they can't get to the finals in the next two years I would say it is a large possibility, Irving may or may not stay at that point and will be in his mid 30s

What I would say is that I would not do anything to jeopardize my ability to potentially acquire a star like Luka. I would imagine somebody like Dragic could tell you if there is a possibility of that or not.

Aside from Luka there will be some major tampering going on in this Olympics like there was in 2008 where a lot of these guys will be playing together, along with Coach Spo. Swing for the fences if the space is there we don't have to worry about cobbling together poverty assets to acquire an upgraded roster.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

would rather keep Jovic over JJJ.

Jovic is a more rare player, with his skillset at 6'10... who is showing flashes already.


JJJ is a replaceable wing guy.

They can both go for all I care if it means getting someone like Mitchell

At this point I could care less about any upside Players we have since it means nothing in our immediate future without talent. I cannot deal with us running this ish back, but they must pick a fcking lane. Either go young and pivot into a rebuild or upgrade significantly and go for it. This yeah, trade this piece but not this one which means we never make the deal happen and are stuck in the same time loop, nah that's not it. If Cleveland wants the 2024 Pick + Jovic and JJJ + Herro you give it to them.

Get me the 2 foundational pieces of the future in Bam and Mitchell that will also maximize Jimmy’s window of being elite and fill the roster out with 3 and D vets and let’s go to war. We still have future draft picks for young players coming up we’ll take, not all is lost. Just hit on your picks and you’re good.

When Jimmys done get a new 3rd guy in there and revamp. Thats how you remain a contender for a decade.

[AirP.]

Reality has been skewed over time; he didn’t drag this team to the finals in 2020 or last season. The best argument would be 2022.

2020 everyone was hoopin, last season after the Bucks series he averaged 24-7-6 on 42/30/80 shooting splits. Injured I know but he didn’t drag us to the finals.

Not exactly correct, without Butler carrying the team in games it couldn't win Miami wouldn't have gotten so far. Butler doesn't "carry" the team every game, but with him being a 2-way player it allows the coach the ability to play more offensively skewed lesser players which can let you win games that the scoring doesn't come from your stars.

Miami is in a unique situation with its 2 best players being high level 2-way players that aren't worried about their shots, it allows a coach to not have to play so many defensive role-players.

Right but that could be said for any star that makes a deep run basically, it’s just being worded as he was a one man show dropping 50 every night while everyone else was **** the bed lol he was definitely our best player and likely still is health permitting but it was a collective effort all around.

Absolutely, how many stars has Miami acquired outside the draft in the last 15 years (since the summer of LeBron and Bosh), that answer is 1. If you want to include Dragic, he did make the all-star team once in Miami but only had 1 20+ ppg season in Miami too.

I think people need to look around at where Miami was at for a few years and what their future was before Butler forced his way to Miami, you had an up-and-coming young player in Bam, a vastly overpaid Whiteside (had to pay him or lose him) and were looking to develop JRich into a scorer and a highly drafted Winslow at #10 and he never even got to 13 ppg the 5 years he was in Miami.

Some chance of high level play is better than no high level play.

[greg4012]

Not exactly correct, without Butler carrying the team in games it couldn't win Miami wouldn't have gotten so far. Butler doesn't "carry" the team every game, but with him being a 2-way player it allows the coach the ability to play more offensively skewed lesser players which can let you win games that the scoring doesn't come from your stars.

Miami is in a unique situation with its 2 best players being high level 2-way players that aren't worried about their shots, it allows a coach to not have to play so many defensive role-players.

Right but that could be said for any star that makes a deep run basically, it’s just being worded as he was a one man show dropping 50 every night while everyone else was **** the bed lol he was definitely our best player and likely still is health permitting but it was a collective effort all around.

Absolutely, how many stars has Miami acquired outside the draft in the last 15 years (since the summer of LeBron and Bosh), that answer is 1. If you want to include Dragic, he did make the all-star team once in Miami but only had 1 20+ ppg season in Miami too.

I think people need to look around at where Miami was at for a few years and what their future was before Butler forced his way to Miami, you had an up-and-coming young player in Bam, a vastly overpaid Whiteside (had to pay him or lose him) and were looking to develop JRich into a scorer and a highly drafted Winslow at #10 and he never even got to 13 ppg the 5 years he was in Miami.

Some chance of high level play is better than no high level play.

To be fair, Miami's post big-3 years where the direct result of a confluence of events:

1) Mortgaged future from going all-in on big 3 era (future draft picks were traded to get each of Bron and Bosh in sign and trades)
2) Max player Chris Bosh remaining on the books but unable to play due to a truly freak medical issue
3) LeBron sabotage on the way out leaving the Heat in a holding pattern

Despite this, the Heat worked to try to compete and bridge the gap--trading for Dragic primarily (2 FRPs). Then we lost Bosh and that attempt to thread the needle fell apart.

What followed were some bad contracts hoping to hastily recover from the unfortunate blows dealt.

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

If that’s the basis of a deal that’s a no brainer. Add sweetener if needed

For those who aren't paying for the Miami Herald paywall, the same story as of basically all those paywalled stories are on other websites like yahoo for instance...

https://sports.yahoo.com/heat-players-viewed-trade-assets-154506604.html

Here's the quote from above and a little extra to it. I would think team that he'd be willing to extend with could easily outbid Miami for Mitchell.

▪ Regarding Cleveland’s Donovan Mitchell (who reportedly is expected to seek a trade), he said a hypothetical Heat offer of Herro and the Cavs’ choice of Jovic or Jaquez and a first-round pick would be “a competitive one, because Mitchell can just leave in a year.

“Herro and Darius Garland can score and shoot, but defensively you’re giving up a lot if you pair those two together. That’s a pretty good deal. I would assume Cleveland would say it’s not quite enough. But it’s a competitive offer.”

“He’s erratic, but the big thing with him is you can never count on him being healthy. The major concern with his salary is the health, less so the talent. He played half the season; you can’t just [gloss over] that after the past injury issues. I don’t think he’s a negative asset but a lot of teams will back off because of the health. If he was healthy more often, I would feel better about him.”

“I know Herro was erratic in the Boston series but he can get his own shot. He’s skilled. He’s a good passer. He’s just streaky. In an ideal world, he’s a sixth man. But that’s a lot to pay for a sixth man.”