I heard rumors of Bogut being a cancer. And he seems to hate on NBA players. And is not if the guy is so damn impressive, you could overlook all his flaws.
I'll probably stick with the pick, unless we miss out on one of the top 5 picks.
The Retooling Thread: What do we do now
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CB4MiamiHeat
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HeatSince88
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crzyyafrican wrote:He's up for a contract this off-season. What better way to lower his market value than to reduce his minutes, by starting Chris Webber and/or Al Harrington.
What better way to make him want to sign elsewhere.
I think the rest of the league already knows about Biedrins. Hiding him behind The Player Formerly Know as Chris Webber isn't gonna change anything.
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crzy
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HeatSince88 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
What better way to make him want to sign elsewhere.
I think the rest of the league already knows about Biedrins. Hiding him behind The Player Formerly Know as Chris Webber isn't gonna change anything.
I don't support playing Webber ahead of Biedrins. I was merely explaining my take on the situation.
As far as keeping Biedrins, it's no problem either way. We have his rights and we'd pay to keep him here. How many teams are under the cap next year anyways? Like 3 or 4. There won't be any suitors we have to worry about.
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HeatSince88
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I'm not saying GS let's him go.
I'm saying that if you piss a player off, he's more likely to turn down your extension, sign some other team's 5 yr/$55 million offer sheet, and tell the press that's where he wants to play. Whereas if you make him happy where he is, he's more likely to accept your extension before even hitting the open market.
Think about it: if you know the Warriors are sitting him to drop his value, don't you think Biedrens and his agent have figured that out too? How do you think they'd feel about that? Do you think it helps GS in negotiations if Biedrins and his agent are pissed at them for purposely trying to hurt him financially?
Personally, I think Webber's being given a chunk of his minutes because Nelly promised him those minutes to get him to sign there. Also, there's probably a couple of things Nelly wants Biedrins to work harder at, and taking away some minutes can motivate him to do so.
I'm saying that if you piss a player off, he's more likely to turn down your extension, sign some other team's 5 yr/$55 million offer sheet, and tell the press that's where he wants to play. Whereas if you make him happy where he is, he's more likely to accept your extension before even hitting the open market.
Think about it: if you know the Warriors are sitting him to drop his value, don't you think Biedrens and his agent have figured that out too? How do you think they'd feel about that? Do you think it helps GS in negotiations if Biedrins and his agent are pissed at them for purposely trying to hurt him financially?
Personally, I think Webber's being given a chunk of his minutes because Nelly promised him those minutes to get him to sign there. Also, there's probably a couple of things Nelly wants Biedrins to work harder at, and taking away some minutes can motivate him to do so.
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crzy
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He is going to hit the market, he is a free agent, so it won't be an extension, it will be a new contract. And since he's restricted, we can match any offer sheet. Golden State holds all the cards. Biedrins' agent isn't really at an advantageous bargaining position.
And, yes, Webber was obviously given a promise to start.
And, yes, Webber was obviously given a promise to start.
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HeatSince88
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crzyyafrican wrote:He is going to hit the market, he is a free agent, so it won't be an extension, it will be a new contract. And since he's restricted, we can match any offer sheet. Golden State holds all the cards. Biedrins' agent isn't really at an advantageous bargaining position.
And, yes, Webber was obviously given a promise to start.
Yes, Biedrens will be a restricted free agent. However, Golden State can obviously offer him a contract before he even travels to another city to tour facilities, negotiate , etc. If they piss him off by playing a silly little game of "we're going to bench you to drop your value" that WILL piss him off and he WILL tour those cities and he WILL sign elsewhere and he WILL get way more than his production warrants.
And the history of a functional center hitting the open market and getting less than what he deserves isn't a very good one. I direct your attention to Milicic, Varejao, Mohammed, J James, Okur, Dampier, B Wallace, Curry, etc.
What I'm saying is, if you want to re-sign your center at a decent amount, you don't piss him and his agent off by playing the "we're gonna sit you to drop your value" game. Pissing them off hurts you more than it helps.
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Lane1974
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from Izzy's blog
http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2008 ... -else.html
Who else?
Mike Miller seems to be the only name that is being mentioned as far as potential player the Heat can trade for. But if that doesn't happen, are there other guys out there that could come available?
Just quickly skimmed over some rosters and salary numbers and thought the Bulls might be, if they're convinced that even a short playoff run wouldn't do much for the organization, looking to dump some salary and create lots of space this summer. It's possible, with Kirk Hinrich and Andres Nocioni each players the Bulls could be willing to unload for expiring contracts in return.
Hinrich's contract lasts another four years after this one, but it's one of those rare deals that decreases each season, so it's not awful. Plus, he's a true point guard and can defend with the best of them at that position. Nocioni is just a unique player who can play both forward positions and can fill it up when he's hot. Hinrich, in the first year of a new deal, might be tricky to move, though.
Then there is Charlie Villanueva in Milwaukee. He's another guy who can play both forward positions, and he's frustrated in Milwaukee. But he's still on a rookie deal, so the Bucks will probably only unload him if a team takes someone like Dan Gadzuric as well. Gadzuric's contract has three more years past this season, though, so it might be a deal breaker.
Other random thoughts...
Marcus Banks is a scoring point guard. You take away his scoring instincts, you take away what he does best. I hope he doesn't stifle those instincts just to impress Pat Riley. Especially on a team that wants to run, it would be ideal if everyone on the floor were a scoring hreat. And Marcus could be that as long as he's looking to score...
If the Heat gets unlucky and ends up picking somewhere below the No. 2 pick, here are a few guys NOT to draft. I know the Heat needs a big man, but neither UConn's Hasheem Thabeet, Georgetown's Roy Hibbert nor Stanford's Brook Lopez is the answer. Texas A&M's DeAndre Jordan is nice because he's athletic and loaded with potential, but the other bigs are only potential stiffs.
Also love Jerryd Bayless of Arizona. He's a scoring point guard, but he is incredible. I like him better than Eric Gordon.
http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2008 ... -else.html
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unowen85
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Yeah let's draft Jordan cause he can dunk! What a sphincter, I want to kick him on the face.
For a long time it gave me nightmares,witnessing an injustice like that.It’s a constant reminder of just how unfair this world can be.I can still hear them taunting him, Silly Rabbit tricks are for kids.I mean why couldn’t they just give him some cereal?
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Mourning_Heat_33
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Howdy folks, coming out of retirement to share a lot of my thoughts and hopes. I am still very much a fan of this team, as much as always, but don't post on here anymore. But here is a long essay on my thoughts:
-all the talk on Zo retiring after this season...give me a break, Zo is not going down like this. He's my favorite player of all time, hence the name, and I know he won't go down being helped off the court like that. He wanted to finish off strong. I worry that he might go with another team (Suns, Spurs, etc.), because he has done that in the past, but if we make moves that show we can contend next season, I see no reason why he wouldn't want to retire with this team in a strong fashion.
Now onto the trade: it's awesome and amazing for both teams. The Suns are the same team every year. That same is good, but they needed to do something to distinguish themselves. Why not bring in a guy who has won 4 of the past 8 championships who players a weak position for them. Remember 2004 and 2005 (and sort of 2006?), we had a fast lineup and a slow/half court lineup. Slow with Shaq and Damon. Fast with Dooling and others)...Dooling, aka Barbosa (who is ever fast and a better player offensively than Dooling). The Suns are going to be awesome and I am rooting for them this season.
But this is a Heat forum, onto the Heat. We needed to do this trade and we are lucky it happened. I firmly believe that Riley can rebuild this team in the same season he decided we needed to rebuild, and the following summer...in other words, before next season begins. And here is a hypothetical scenario how:
We slowly play Wade less and less, get a glimpse of what he and Marion can do together (which I think will be very special). Marion is a legit player all on his own and I never really considered him anything other than a Sun and a sidekick to so many other players...Marbury, Kidd, Nash, etc. But looking at him by himself, he is such a monster rebounder, scorer, slasher and can even shoot the ball however ugly it is. As for Banks, I like his potential with this team. He's young and plays PG. And apparently he can defend! (Hopefully) this means we can say goodbye to having absolutely no one to defend the Ben Gordons of the world if/when we meet them in the playoffs. I also saw him hit an open shot when he played over the weekend, which automatically puts him above everyone else on this team that plays that position (although I love Quinn on halfcourt offense and hope we keep him around).
After playing Wade less (only after seeing him and Marion for a while), we also think about making another trade, this time to clear cap space. Right now we are looking at a 55.6 mil cap limit. With all the contracts ending (Davis, Williams, etc.) we will have 53.6 mil payroll. If we can swing a trade to dump Blount (who is playing well and is a 7'0 center--which is a very rare position which I'm sure every other team in the league would love to have) along with Smush, for expiring contracts, then that opens up an extra 9.5 mil. (Kurt Thomas of the Sonics has an expiring contract of equal size to Blount's), and Smush's is small and has a year less than Blount's on it making it even easier to trade. With those two unnecessary pieces (unnecessary for us, but valuable for other teams) off the books, that should put us in the 11 mil category. Two other factors could play a role, like renouncing Wright's contract, the salary cap going up (although the economy is crap right now and this might not allow it to go up) and if we sign Marion to an extension that starts his contract off next season at lower than what it would be. It's 17 mil right now, if he renounces that and signs a new deal, the new deal could start at 12 mil or so, opening up even more money!
That gives us enough to sign someone. If we make this trade, a guy who really wants to join the team, namely Elton Brand, a power player who we need and who has expressed interest in the Heat in the past, would see us make this move and opt out of his contract to 'test the waters.'
Then comes the draft. Right now we are looking at a top 4 pick. Here's who the mock drafts seem to have going and why we shouldn't pick any of them
-Derrick Rose: a Wade clone? Sounds awesome, but 2 Wade's can't work together. It has got to be obvious to everyone at this point that we need a G to go with Wade that can shoot the damn ball. Rose will be a great player from the looks of it, but he can't shoot! Picking him would be a mistake, although a ton of other teams would love to have him.
-Brook Lopez: big slow center; he should be pretty good in the league,but he is big and slow. A Wade team needs to be fast. He would slow us down which takes us in the wrong direction. The only exception to this big slow rule is Shaq, but Shaq is...well, he's SHAQ!
-DeAndre Jordan, another center, but he is apparently a few years away from being ready to play regular minutes, let alone starting minutes. He's also a horrific FT shooter. And we know how that goes...
-Michael Beasley, the guy a lot of people are talking about and the probable 1st overall pick, he will be a scoring machine in the NBA. He's just like Carmelo in so many ways. So why shouldn't the Heat pick this APPARENT gem? Because he plays out of position. Because he would play SF or undersized PF, two positions we already have filled with excellent players, because he isn't anything special at defense, and because he has a bad attitude. Those are all things that the Heat specifically needs to improve on. The Heat needs mature guys who want to win and won't get distracted or lose interest. From what I've read on that guy, he's got bad attitude written all over him. And the Heat has no patience for guys like that and can't afford guys like that. Let another team take the risk on him, because even outside of his attitude, being out of position and not being able to play D or fill another specific need makes him a bad choice.
-Eric Gordon. He'd be great as a shooter, but we already have a 6-4 undersized SG. Maybe if he learns point, but then that's 2 6-4 guys, neither of which will actually commit to being the PG. He's also not ideal as a defensive complement to Wade in the backcourt.
-Roy Hibbert, to big and slow for the direction the Heat are going in.
-OJ Mayo, I actually wouldn't mind him to fill our NBA needs as long as he can shoot and defend, but can he defend smaller guards?
The ideal guys for the Heat, from what I've seen in reading reports and watching them play are either Jerryd Bayless (a mid-to-late lottery pick) or Hasheem Thabeet (a mid first rounder). Thabeet is a center and height will be a need, and getting one that has these three things: size, defensive stopper ability and ability to run the floor and in transition, is key. This guy can do all thing and a year with Zo as his mentor would make the process easy. Bayless is a PG who can shoot the ball amazing well, has complete range and can chase around quick little guards. Both would be nice and both would allow us to trade down and get some other assets in the process.
Now here are possibilities I'd like to see the Heat explore:
1. Trading Blount and Smush away, like for Kurt Thomas on the Sonics who has an expiring deal and one other expiring contract. With the money sign Elton Brand to be the power presence for us. Throw in 2nd rounder to make it happen. Blount is a center that is playing well and he's...A CENTER! Someone has got to
2. If that doesn't work, and we get a top 2 or 3 pick and another team, let's say the Clippers, has the 6th or 7th pick and wants Beasley or Rose, we trade the pick along with Blount, Smush, Banks, etc. for Brand and their pick. We draft Bayless the 6th or 7th we get in the trade. Or a similar trade to trade down and get Thabeet.
3. Resign Zo no matter what and show him we want to compete immediately.
4. Other picks I'd CONSIDER, although they aren't ideal, DeAndre Jordan the C, Mayo the PG.
5. Be wary of trading Wright, we already traded Shaq and keeping Wade happy is important. Wright and Wade are like brothers and trading him would be a mistake, although a guy like Pietrus makes much more sense for the team. We might have to sacrifice that to keep Wade happy even though I think winning would make him even happier. But I say we don't risk it by trading Wright.
OK this is way longer than I expected it to be and I doubt anyone reads this, but this is what not writing for an entire season will do. Let this count for all the things I never said throughout the season. All in all, I think a lineup of
Banks
Wade
Marion
Haslem
Brand
with a bench of any combo of these guys: Bayless/Quinn/Mayo, Wright/Pietrus, Cook?, Zo, Jordan/Thabeet
Undersized but awesome. The Wade/Marion/Brand trio will be a force to be reckoned with. Or rather NOT to be reckoned with because who would want to face such a dirty lineup? Not me.
-all the talk on Zo retiring after this season...give me a break, Zo is not going down like this. He's my favorite player of all time, hence the name, and I know he won't go down being helped off the court like that. He wanted to finish off strong. I worry that he might go with another team (Suns, Spurs, etc.), because he has done that in the past, but if we make moves that show we can contend next season, I see no reason why he wouldn't want to retire with this team in a strong fashion.
Now onto the trade: it's awesome and amazing for both teams. The Suns are the same team every year. That same is good, but they needed to do something to distinguish themselves. Why not bring in a guy who has won 4 of the past 8 championships who players a weak position for them. Remember 2004 and 2005 (and sort of 2006?), we had a fast lineup and a slow/half court lineup. Slow with Shaq and Damon. Fast with Dooling and others)...Dooling, aka Barbosa (who is ever fast and a better player offensively than Dooling). The Suns are going to be awesome and I am rooting for them this season.
But this is a Heat forum, onto the Heat. We needed to do this trade and we are lucky it happened. I firmly believe that Riley can rebuild this team in the same season he decided we needed to rebuild, and the following summer...in other words, before next season begins. And here is a hypothetical scenario how:
We slowly play Wade less and less, get a glimpse of what he and Marion can do together (which I think will be very special). Marion is a legit player all on his own and I never really considered him anything other than a Sun and a sidekick to so many other players...Marbury, Kidd, Nash, etc. But looking at him by himself, he is such a monster rebounder, scorer, slasher and can even shoot the ball however ugly it is. As for Banks, I like his potential with this team. He's young and plays PG. And apparently he can defend! (Hopefully) this means we can say goodbye to having absolutely no one to defend the Ben Gordons of the world if/when we meet them in the playoffs. I also saw him hit an open shot when he played over the weekend, which automatically puts him above everyone else on this team that plays that position (although I love Quinn on halfcourt offense and hope we keep him around).
After playing Wade less (only after seeing him and Marion for a while), we also think about making another trade, this time to clear cap space. Right now we are looking at a 55.6 mil cap limit. With all the contracts ending (Davis, Williams, etc.) we will have 53.6 mil payroll. If we can swing a trade to dump Blount (who is playing well and is a 7'0 center--which is a very rare position which I'm sure every other team in the league would love to have) along with Smush, for expiring contracts, then that opens up an extra 9.5 mil. (Kurt Thomas of the Sonics has an expiring contract of equal size to Blount's), and Smush's is small and has a year less than Blount's on it making it even easier to trade. With those two unnecessary pieces (unnecessary for us, but valuable for other teams) off the books, that should put us in the 11 mil category. Two other factors could play a role, like renouncing Wright's contract, the salary cap going up (although the economy is crap right now and this might not allow it to go up) and if we sign Marion to an extension that starts his contract off next season at lower than what it would be. It's 17 mil right now, if he renounces that and signs a new deal, the new deal could start at 12 mil or so, opening up even more money!
That gives us enough to sign someone. If we make this trade, a guy who really wants to join the team, namely Elton Brand, a power player who we need and who has expressed interest in the Heat in the past, would see us make this move and opt out of his contract to 'test the waters.'
Then comes the draft. Right now we are looking at a top 4 pick. Here's who the mock drafts seem to have going and why we shouldn't pick any of them
-Derrick Rose: a Wade clone? Sounds awesome, but 2 Wade's can't work together. It has got to be obvious to everyone at this point that we need a G to go with Wade that can shoot the damn ball. Rose will be a great player from the looks of it, but he can't shoot! Picking him would be a mistake, although a ton of other teams would love to have him.
-Brook Lopez: big slow center; he should be pretty good in the league,but he is big and slow. A Wade team needs to be fast. He would slow us down which takes us in the wrong direction. The only exception to this big slow rule is Shaq, but Shaq is...well, he's SHAQ!
-DeAndre Jordan, another center, but he is apparently a few years away from being ready to play regular minutes, let alone starting minutes. He's also a horrific FT shooter. And we know how that goes...
-Michael Beasley, the guy a lot of people are talking about and the probable 1st overall pick, he will be a scoring machine in the NBA. He's just like Carmelo in so many ways. So why shouldn't the Heat pick this APPARENT gem? Because he plays out of position. Because he would play SF or undersized PF, two positions we already have filled with excellent players, because he isn't anything special at defense, and because he has a bad attitude. Those are all things that the Heat specifically needs to improve on. The Heat needs mature guys who want to win and won't get distracted or lose interest. From what I've read on that guy, he's got bad attitude written all over him. And the Heat has no patience for guys like that and can't afford guys like that. Let another team take the risk on him, because even outside of his attitude, being out of position and not being able to play D or fill another specific need makes him a bad choice.
-Eric Gordon. He'd be great as a shooter, but we already have a 6-4 undersized SG. Maybe if he learns point, but then that's 2 6-4 guys, neither of which will actually commit to being the PG. He's also not ideal as a defensive complement to Wade in the backcourt.
-Roy Hibbert, to big and slow for the direction the Heat are going in.
-OJ Mayo, I actually wouldn't mind him to fill our NBA needs as long as he can shoot and defend, but can he defend smaller guards?
The ideal guys for the Heat, from what I've seen in reading reports and watching them play are either Jerryd Bayless (a mid-to-late lottery pick) or Hasheem Thabeet (a mid first rounder). Thabeet is a center and height will be a need, and getting one that has these three things: size, defensive stopper ability and ability to run the floor and in transition, is key. This guy can do all thing and a year with Zo as his mentor would make the process easy. Bayless is a PG who can shoot the ball amazing well, has complete range and can chase around quick little guards. Both would be nice and both would allow us to trade down and get some other assets in the process.
Now here are possibilities I'd like to see the Heat explore:
1. Trading Blount and Smush away, like for Kurt Thomas on the Sonics who has an expiring deal and one other expiring contract. With the money sign Elton Brand to be the power presence for us. Throw in 2nd rounder to make it happen. Blount is a center that is playing well and he's...A CENTER! Someone has got to
2. If that doesn't work, and we get a top 2 or 3 pick and another team, let's say the Clippers, has the 6th or 7th pick and wants Beasley or Rose, we trade the pick along with Blount, Smush, Banks, etc. for Brand and their pick. We draft Bayless the 6th or 7th we get in the trade. Or a similar trade to trade down and get Thabeet.
3. Resign Zo no matter what and show him we want to compete immediately.
4. Other picks I'd CONSIDER, although they aren't ideal, DeAndre Jordan the C, Mayo the PG.
5. Be wary of trading Wright, we already traded Shaq and keeping Wade happy is important. Wright and Wade are like brothers and trading him would be a mistake, although a guy like Pietrus makes much more sense for the team. We might have to sacrifice that to keep Wade happy even though I think winning would make him even happier. But I say we don't risk it by trading Wright.
OK this is way longer than I expected it to be and I doubt anyone reads this, but this is what not writing for an entire season will do. Let this count for all the things I never said throughout the season. All in all, I think a lineup of
Banks
Wade
Marion
Haslem
Brand
with a bench of any combo of these guys: Bayless/Quinn/Mayo, Wright/Pietrus, Cook?, Zo, Jordan/Thabeet
Undersized but awesome. The Wade/Marion/Brand trio will be a force to be reckoned with. Or rather NOT to be reckoned with because who would want to face such a dirty lineup? Not me.
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Ballwise
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I think it's a pipe dream to trade Blount this season, though I'm proposing one about every half our 
. Getting Miami far under the cap in order to resign Marion and add Brand doesn't look very realistic either.
We should definately trade the BPA and maybe trade if we don't get someone we could really use. Like a Donte Green imo.
I agree that Bayless would be a great fit, but I think Beasley would be as well even with his reputation.
We should try to get one decent role player with one of our expirings (example: Wilcox for Davis and Cook) and keep on trying to rid ourselves from Smush and Blount.
. Getting Miami far under the cap in order to resign Marion and add Brand doesn't look very realistic either.
We should definately trade the BPA and maybe trade if we don't get someone we could really use. Like a Donte Green imo.
I agree that Bayless would be a great fit, but I think Beasley would be as well even with his reputation.
We should try to get one decent role player with one of our expirings (example: Wilcox for Davis and Cook) and keep on trying to rid ourselves from Smush and Blount.
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HeatInOhio
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Why would Seattle trade Kurt Thomas for Mark Blount and Smush Parker? That makes no sense for them. They are rumored to want to unload Wally as they also are looking to get enough cap space to sign a decent player. I would love to get Brand to go w/ Marion and Wade but I just don't see that happening.