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Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1421 » by contract » Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:23 pm

AirP. wrote:
VaDe255 wrote:
AirP. wrote:When talking about a one-way player you should expect much higher than the league average. I'm usually fine with him shooting 3s because that's his strength the midrange and sometimes freezing out some teammates not so much.

Sure, but he's taking 12.7 2s compared to 9.7 3s and last year he took 8.5 2s and 8 3s so he's barely shot an extra 3 but has decided to take 50% more 2s.

Right, they're low efficiency shots and he's not really getting others open, he does get his 1+ assists a game in that planned pick and roll where he takes a dribble and instantly passes to Bam for a shot, but for the rest of the game there's very few assists. Right now, he has 13 assists to 67 field goal attempts (38 of those 2s).

If this were a player on a different team people on this board would be asking what's going on, can't they control him, but since he's on the Heat it's not a problem because he's getting points although inefficiently and no, Miami can't control him, he's gotten the big contract for 4 years, he's going to play how he wants. It was tough enough to sit Robinson with that big contract even with a better player behind him (Strus), this isn't the case with Herro, Herro is in control of his situation. I watched the same damn thing happen in Minnesota with Wiggins, he got that huge contract and decided to jack shots and go outside his role on offense many, many times and this was Thibodeau as the coach.


We mostly agree regarding the increased number of 2-point attempts compared to 3-pointers by Herro this season. It's undeniable that he's taking more 2s this year (12.7 per game) compared to last year (8.5 per game), while only slightly increasing his 3-point attempts.

I think it's important to consider the context. Herro is still young and evolving as a player. He's not a finished product, and his shot selection could certainly improve with more experience and guidance.
Regarding the one-way player argument and expecting a higher TS%, it's worth noting that even one-way players have roles that are defined by the team's overall strategy. Herro's role, particularly in the absence of other shot creators like Jimmy Butler during the regular season, often requires him to take on a heavy scoring load, which can impact his efficiency.

Herro could be more effective in creating opportunities for others, but let's not forget his primary role is to put points on the board, and he has been trying to fulfilling that role.

Finally, regarding the contract situation, it's a bit early to conclude that Herro will deviate from team goals just because he has a secure contract. Teams and coaches have ways to manage player behavior and roles, and the Heat are no exception. Comparing the situation to Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota may be premature. Unlike Wiggins, Herro is surrounded by a different team culture in Miami.

I would like to forget that he's using himself as a primary scorer, I want him off the ball and catch and shooting 3s (lots of them) and from time to time fake the player up and then attack. Would love to see 10-15 shots that are much more efficient while someone else tries to create offense for the team.

Year 5 (close to half a decade in the NBA) and still the same ******* excuses for Herro.

Yep. :nod:
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1422 » by AirP. » Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:23 pm

contract wrote:
AirP. wrote:...

If this were a player on a different team people on this board would be asking what's going on, can't they control him, but since he's on the Heat it's not a problem because he's getting points although inefficiently and no, Miami can't control him, he's gotten the big contract for 4 years, he's going to play how he wants. It was tough enough to sit Robinson with that big contract even with a better player behind him (Strus), this isn't the case with Herro, Herro is in control of his situation. I watched the same damn thing happen in Minnesota with Wiggins, he got that huge contract and decided to jack shots and go outside his role on offense many, many times and this was Thibodeau as the coach.

Spo sat Whiteside and his big contract. This ain't the Wolves.

Miami was going nowhere at the time; Minnesota was trying to win after missing the playoffs 14 straight years. Luckily Miami doesn't have an owner having more fingers on the day-to-day operations like Glen Taylor has/had, another plus for Miami.

Are you talking about Whiteside sitting for Bam, because I noted Spoelstra doing this for Robinson and Strus too.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1423 » by contract » Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:31 pm

AirP. wrote:
contract wrote:
AirP. wrote:...

If this were a player on a different team people on this board would be asking what's going on, can't they control him, but since he's on the Heat it's not a problem because he's getting points although inefficiently and no, Miami can't control him, he's gotten the big contract for 4 years, he's going to play how he wants. It was tough enough to sit Robinson with that big contract even with a better player behind him (Strus), this isn't the case with Herro, Herro is in control of his situation. I watched the same damn thing happen in Minnesota with Wiggins, he got that huge contract and decided to jack shots and go outside his role on offense many, many times and this was Thibodeau as the coach.

Spo sat Whiteside and his big contract. This ain't the Wolves.

Miami was going nowhere at the time; Minnesota was trying to win after missing the playoffs 14 straight years. Luckily Miami doesn't have an owner having more fingers on the day-to-day operations like Glen Taylor has/had, another plus for Miami.

It doesn't matter. This ain't the Wolves. We just made a run to the Finals without Herro. He isn't taking any hostages on this team.

AirP. wrote:Are you talking about Whiteside sitting for Bam, because I noted Spoelstra doing this for Robinson and Strus too.

Yeah but the Robinson thing is just a case of him sucking. Whiteside was being a bitch. That doesn't fly here.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1424 » by AirP. » Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:49 pm

contract wrote:
AirP. wrote:Are you talking about Whiteside sitting for Bam, because I noted Spoelstra doing this for Robinson and Strus too.

Yeah but the Robinson thing is just a case of him sucking. Whiteside was being a bitch. That doesn't fly here.

No no no... it was reported Robinson was staying in the starting lineup until one or more starters (probably Butler maybe others) asked/pushed Spoelstra for Strus to replace him in the starting lineup.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1425 » by MiamiLoyal926 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:23 pm

We own our own pick this year and cannot trade it until draft night after the pick is made… so I do not mind us using the first half of this season to let Herro play as the “go to” man and put up lots of shots so long as he goes back and watches footage of his play and studies what works and doesn’t work for himself. As long as Spo and Herro are using this time to help fine tune Herro’s game, I am all for it. Same goes for the kids… let them learn on the court and through their own mistakes and footage.

If at the end of the season we are a lower seed… that just means we have a better position in the draft and get another crack at getting another JJJ type player, or improving our pick for a trade on or after draft night. As we saw this last playoffs, getting the top seed is not essential, although home court advantage is nice, but better draft position can help you get a good player like JJJ. The sweet spot is getting that higher pick and still making it to the finals like we did. You get to compete while also build through the draft.

If we are losing games as a means of experimenting and letting our players play in a sandbox to benefit their long term growth, while still turning on the switch for the playoffs and getting better draft position, why not!
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1426 » by AirP. » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:38 pm

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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1427 » by DayofMourning » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:44 pm

MiamiLoyal926 wrote:We own our own pick this year and cannot trade it until draft night after the pick is made… so I do not mind us using the first half of this season to let Herro play as the “go to” man and put up lots of shots so long as he goes back and watches footage of his play and studies what works and doesn’t work for himself. As long as Spo and Herro are using this time to help fine tune Herro’s game, I am all for it. Same goes for the kids… let them learn on the court and through their own mistakes and footage.

If at the end of the season we are a lower seed… that just means we have a better position in the draft and get another crack at getting another JJJ type player, or improving our pick for a trade on or after draft night. As we saw this last playoffs, getting the top seed is not essential, although home court advantage is nice, but better draft position can help you get a good player like JJJ. The sweet spot is getting that higher pick and still making it to the finals like we did. You get to compete while also build through the draft.

If we are losing games as a means of experimenting and letting our players play in a sandbox to benefit their long term growth, while still turning on the switch for the playoffs and getting better draft position, why not!


You definitely have your finger on the pulse of the team and how it chooses to operate.

Spo and crew just want to get to the postseason. Theyre not worried about seeding. Spo has and always will use the RS to try things and evaluate their efficacy.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1428 » by IceColdCubano » Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:55 pm

contract wrote:
AirP. wrote:
VaDe255 wrote:
We mostly agree regarding the increased number of 2-point attempts compared to 3-pointers by Herro this season. It's undeniable that he's taking more 2s this year (12.7 per game) compared to last year (8.5 per game), while only slightly increasing his 3-point attempts.

I think it's important to consider the context. Herro is still young and evolving as a player. He's not a finished product, and his shot selection could certainly improve with more experience and guidance.
Regarding the one-way player argument and expecting a higher TS%, it's worth noting that even one-way players have roles that are defined by the team's overall strategy. Herro's role, particularly in the absence of other shot creators like Jimmy Butler during the regular season, often requires him to take on a heavy scoring load, which can impact his efficiency.

Herro could be more effective in creating opportunities for others, but let's not forget his primary role is to put points on the board, and he has been trying to fulfilling that role.

Finally, regarding the contract situation, it's a bit early to conclude that Herro will deviate from team goals just because he has a secure contract. Teams and coaches have ways to manage player behavior and roles, and the Heat are no exception. Comparing the situation to Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota may be premature. Unlike Wiggins, Herro is surrounded by a different team culture in Miami.

I would like to forget that he's using himself as a primary scorer, I want him off the ball and catch and shooting 3s (lots of them) and from time to time fake the player up and then attack. Would love to see 10-15 shots that are much more efficient while someone else tries to create offense for the team.

Year 5 (close to half a decade in the NBA) and still the same ******* excuses for Herro.

Yep. :nod:


Well to be fair, outside of Bam nobody else is breaking down the defense, the type of shots you mentioned as efficient are either off a screen or in motion for him, he gets glued by a defender all game because of his shooting. He gets zero airspace because he isn't particularly quick, so defenders tend to park themselves on his hip. The Boston game was a clear indication that even our boy Jimmy wether he was cruising or not even he couldn't break down the defense to get open shots. Miami has to do all these gimmicky double screens, back cuts, and elbow dribble handoffs just to get our shooters space. theres no spacing in our offense, Lowry atleast in the Boston game decided to shot, but usually is very tentative, and can no longer get to the rim on his own, Love is the only one they kind of play off of hence why our middle is always crowed, and both our superstars occupy the same space, they kind take turns operating within the same area. If you want Herro to change his style of play you first need either Make Jimmy be dominent in the regular season to force a double, or Bam to shoot from range to pull a defender from the middle, then you have the type of space to operate that can allow Herro to shoot how your explaining.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1429 » by eddieheatfan » Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:06 pm

AirP. wrote:
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1430 » by twix2500 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:32 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
contract wrote:
AirP. wrote:I would like to forget that he's using himself as a primary scorer, I want him off the ball and catch and shooting 3s (lots of them) and from time to time fake the player up and then attack. Would love to see 10-15 shots that are much more efficient while someone else tries to create offense for the team.

Year 5 (close to half a decade in the NBA) and still the same ******* excuses for Herro.

Yep. :nod:


Well to be fair, outside of Bam nobody else is breaking down the defense, the type of shots you mentioned as efficient are either off a screen or in motion for him, he gets glued by a defender all game because of his shooting. He gets zero airspace because he isn't particularly quick, so defenders tend to park themselves on his hip. The Boston game was a clear indication that even our boy Jimmy wether he was cruising or not even he couldn't break down the defense to get open shots. Miami has to do all these gimmicky double screens, back cuts, and elbow dribble handoffs just to get our shooters space. theres no spacing in our offense, Lowry atleast in the Boston game decided to shot, but usually is very tentative, and can no longer get to the rim on his own, Love is the only one they kind of play off of hence why our middle is always crowed, and both our superstars occupy the same space, they kind take turns operating within the same area. If you want Herro to change his style of play you first need either Make Jimmy be dominent in the regular season to force a double, or Bam to shoot from range to pull a defender from the middle, then you have the type of space to operate that can allow Herro to shoot how your explaining.
The problem is you do not need someone breaking down the defense off one on one dribble as often Herro is trying to do so.

Diversity in Herro game is what he needs to learn. He needs to understand when to utilize ball handling. Playing like James Harden is a recipe for failure. Harden was successful in the regular season but when teams game plan it falls apart. This is the same criticism I had with Dion Waiters. People overvalue taking a player off the dribble. He can still be center attention of the offense without dominating ball handling 90% of the time

He is taking too many tough shots that require a lot of energy. Toughness of the shot and fatigue is the biggest factor in efficiency.


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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1431 » by AirP. » Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:55 pm

Can't wait to see this board in 3 seasons when the talk will be about Bam being age 29, his window and should Miami think about moving him.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1432 » by Heat3 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:59 pm

So far....

Herro
22ppg, 37.3 FG%, 36.7 3FG%, 4.3reb, 4.3ast, 1.3stl

Lillard
22.5ppg, 34.4 FG%, 30.0 3FG%, 6.0reb, 4.5ast, 1.0stl

Beal
n/a

:lol:
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1433 » by unowen85 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:04 pm

AirP. wrote:
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Maybe this is why his rebounding numbers have been ass. He acting like the ball is a skinny chick.
For a long time it gave me nightmares,witnessing an injustice like that.It’s a constant reminder of just how unfair this world can be.I can still hear them taunting him, Silly Rabbit tricks are for kids.I mean why couldn’t they just give him some cereal?
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1434 » by KingDavid » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:08 pm

Heat3 wrote:So far....

Herro
22ppg, 37.3 FG%, 36.7 3FG%, 4.3reb, 4.3ast, 1.3stl

Lillard
22.5ppg, 34.4 FG%, 30.0 3FG%, 6.0reb, 4.5ast, 1.0stl

Beal
n/a

:lol:

Ohhh, that's very interesting.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1435 » by carnageta » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:08 pm

Heat3 wrote:So far....

Herro
22ppg, 37.3 FG%, 36.7 3FG%, 4.3reb, 4.3ast, 1.3stl

Lillard
22.5ppg, 34.4 FG%, 30.0 3FG%, 6.0reb, 4.5ast, 1.0stl

Beal
n/a

:lol:


Here's some more loss p0rn:

Trae Young
20ppg, 26.6 FG%

Lamelo Ball
17.5ppg, 25.1 FG%

Julius Randle
13.7ppg, 27.7 FG%

KAT
18.5ppg, 35.1 FG%

Anthony Edwards
21ppg, 35.7 FG%

Pascal Siakam
13ppg, 37.5 FG%

Kyrie Irving
20.5ppg, 39.0 FG%

Herro ain't the only one struggling. The first week of the season just ended lol.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1436 » by IceColdCubano » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:36 pm

carnageta wrote:
Heat3 wrote:So far....

Herro
22ppg, 37.3 FG%, 36.7 3FG%, 4.3reb, 4.3ast, 1.3stl

Lillard
22.5ppg, 34.4 FG%, 30.0 3FG%, 6.0reb, 4.5ast, 1.0stl

Beal
n/a

:lol:


Here's some more loss p0rn:

Trae Young
20ppg, 26.6 FG%

Lamelo Ball
17.5ppg, 25.1 FG%

Julius Randle
13.7ppg, 27.7 FG%

KAT
18.5ppg, 35.1 FG%

Anthony Edwards
21ppg, 35.7 FG%

Pascal Siakam
13ppg, 37.5 FG%

Kyrie Irving
20.5ppg, 39.0 FG%

Herro ain't the only one struggling. The first week of the season just ended lol.


Azz everyone of them, straight Azz.....good to see we are all here having brain aneurysm's from the opening week of NBA ball.
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1437 » by twix2500 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:58 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
carnageta wrote:
Heat3 wrote:So far....

Herro
22ppg, 37.3 FG%, 36.7 3FG%, 4.3reb, 4.3ast, 1.3stl

Lillard
22.5ppg, 34.4 FG%, 30.0 3FG%, 6.0reb, 4.5ast, 1.0stl

Beal
n/a



Here's some more loss p0rn:

Trae Young
20ppg, 26.6 FG%

Lamelo Ball
17.5ppg, 25.1 FG%

Julius Randle
13.7ppg, 27.7 FG%

KAT
18.5ppg, 35.1 FG%

Anthony Edwards
21ppg, 35.7 FG%

Pascal Siakam
13ppg, 37.5 FG%

Kyrie Irving
20.5ppg, 39.0 FG%

Herro ain't the only one struggling. The first week of the season just ended lol.


Azz everyone of them, straight Azz.....good to see we are all here having brain aneurysm's from the opening week of NBA ball.
Damian Lillard is averaging 16 fga a game and getting 22 pts and yes for him that is struggling. Come on, for one it doesn't matter who else is struggling. Lawd jesus

Herro has a history of struggling when tries to apply this much offensive energy

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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1438 » by MiamiLoyal926 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:04 pm

Heat3 wrote:So far....

Herro
22ppg, 37.3 FG%, 36.7 3FG%, 4.3reb, 4.3ast, 1.3stl

Lillard
22.5ppg, 34.4 FG%, 30.0 3FG%, 6.0reb, 4.5ast, 1.0stl

Beal
n/a

:lol:


Beal = n/a :lol:
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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1439 » by AirP. » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:08 pm

35:36 is where they pick the 2nd and 3rd non top 3 rookie to talk about, not best rookie but the one they're most interested in, hint... it's the same guy and he's from Miami.

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Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1440 » by MiamiLoyal926 » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:24 pm

Win or lose tonight, I want to see Herro continue to be aggressive (albeit more efficient), JJJ and Jovic get good amount of burn, and would love to see a lineup of Herro/JJJ/Butler/Jovic/Bam get minutes on the floor. Hopefully Bam is good to go today and Butler flashes Himmy today since he promised the Bucks an L.

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