MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021

[DayofMourning]

Yea...'I'm not sure you want to use those examples. Winslow could be considered a bust. Precious is in a very tight spot with almost no way of getting real minutes under Spo.

The reality is we can't have both ways - you either try to win now with Jimmy (in that case Herro and Precious should probably be moved for more ready to win players) or we're not really trying to go all in - in that case we better off trading Jimmy for future assets and young players and hope this young team gets a lot better 3/4 years from now.

Pretty much. Unless Bam and Herro go supernova next year, we've put ourselves in a tough spot for real contention. I mean, it could be worse than what we've assembled, but the ultimate goal of winning it all is going to require more pieces. We still have maneuverability with that this offseason, but it's really a make or break offseason for "this" team to come together during Jimmy's timeline. We have to get lucky with some trades. That cap space we had, then donated to Bam's future fund, is pretty much unusable. We have to sign and trade our way into some deals.

Having said that, we're going to have to take some risks. I'm not a fan of Kristaps injury woes. Paying a cheerleader max money is pretty crazy, and franchise crippling..... However, when you have no other valid options, you gamble on potential upside. At his healthy peak, he's a mismatch problem who isn't going to be shy about taking shots. That last bit has been a hinderance for us, as our top two players definitely love to defer. Hell, Jimmy practically preaches deference. We need more guys who won't think twice about getting shots up. That's another reason I like that Sexton could be available as well.

I said these things last offseason

You're always a step ahead, Bish. Trend setter.

[twix2500]

Highly doubt the Heat have the assets for Dame. He is a lot more valuable than Harden and the Blazers will not be punked by Dame.

What the Heat may be able to do is get some of the secondary players like CJ.

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[twix2500]

Here comes the coattail riding and i told you so’s

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I mean they are former realgm posters. Imagine if one of them was Iggie and Bish

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[HeatIn5]

id give everything for Dame

[dean456]

Here comes the coattail riding and i told you so’s

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I mean they did say that if Dame wanted out you would hear about it from Chris Haynes. Why shouldnt they say this?

[Kobewade11]

I made that post just for you since you are their resident mole

[DayofMourning]

I paid attention to the 5 reasons guys this past offseason. That was enough for me. Following this board is good enough for me.

[unowen85]

Move Bam for Dame. Move Dragic and Robinson for KP.

Dame
Butler
KP

Dynasty.

Hurry up, Riley.

[DayofMourning]

Move Bam for Dame. Move Dragic and Robinson for KP.

Dame
Butler
KP

Dynasty.

Hurry up, Riley.

Let me send him a text.

[unowen85]

Move Bam for Dame. Move Dragic and Robinson for KP.

Dame
Butler
KP

Dynasty.

Hurry up, Riley.

Let me send him a text.

I appreciate that.

[Wiltside]

If there is a way to pair Dame, Butler and Bam together...you have to figure it out and go for it.

Having said that, there are a lot of teams that would empty their wallets for Dame, and their pockets are deeper than ours. Odds are extremely slim he comes here, sadly.

Our more realistic targets are Porzingis or Simmons. Depressed assets that can be had for a lot less than Dame, that MAY be able to take us to another level.

Unfortunately, what we need is an alpha, 25+ per game scorer - and we don't have the currency for one.

[DayofMourning]

If there is a way to pair Dame, Butler and Bam together...you have to figure it out and go for it.

Having said that, there are a lot of teams that would empty their wallets for Dame, and their pockets are deeper than ours. Odds are extremely slim he comes here, sadly.

Our more realistic targets are Porzingis or Simmons. Depressed assets that can be had for a lot less than Dame, that MAY be able to take us to another level.

Unfortunately, what we need is an alpha, 25+ per game scorer - and we don't have the currency for one.

Well, Sexton almost fits that bill. He got to 24.3 points on 18.4 shots.

Imagine a back 3 of Sexton, Herro, and Butler. Then imagine a front 2 of Bam and absolutely no one. We are still knee deep in team building. We have no legit big to help Bam.

[AirP.]

If there is a way to pair Dame, Butler and Bam together...you have to figure it out and go for it.

Having said that, there are a lot of teams that would empty their wallets for Dame, and their pockets are deeper than ours. Odds are extremely slim he comes here, sadly.

Our more realistic targets are Porzingis or Simmons. Depressed assets that can be had for a lot less than Dame, that MAY be able to take us to another level.

Unfortunately, what we need is an alpha, 25+ per game scorer - and we don't have the currency for one.

I just don't get all of this...

Miami has 2 max guys who are facilitators that average nearly 40 points a night and are great defenders. This is a good way to build a TEAM.

People don't want to hear it but Oladipo could be a key player(if an over the cap team, they can sign him after everything else is figured out), as he gets back healthy he can be a 20ppg scorer. right there you have 60 points a night covered, maybe more if Oladipo can be game planned better in Miami then he has been elsewhere. Add a true PG who can direct traffic and toss in 15 a night, add a big opposite of Bam for another 15 a night and you're now at 90 points with your starters and all you need 22 points from the bench to be "average". If Herro or Nunn are retained there's you another 15-20 a night if either are your scoring 6th man and get big minutes off the bench, I don't have any doubts that if Strus comes off the bench for ~24 minutes a night he could get around 10 a game(his points per36 was nearly 17pts this year)

This team isn't all that far away from being a true contender although they won't have a KD or Harden on the team.

There's risks... Oladipo is a risk and more then likely one of the 2 positions that need to be filled by Miami will be a risk also... PG and another big and I'd expect it will less of risk finding the right PG(say Lowry) but the big... I expect Miami is going to have to roll the dice on someone being better in Miami in a bigger role then where they've been at.

[Wiltside]

If there is a way to pair Dame, Butler and Bam together...you have to figure it out and go for it.

Having said that, there are a lot of teams that would empty their wallets for Dame, and their pockets are deeper than ours. Odds are extremely slim he comes here, sadly.

Our more realistic targets are Porzingis or Simmons. Depressed assets that can be had for a lot less than Dame, that MAY be able to take us to another level.

Unfortunately, what we need is an alpha, 25+ per game scorer - and we don't have the currency for one.

I just don't get all of this...

Miami has 2 max guys who are facilitators that average nearly 40 points a night and are great defenders. This is a good way to build a TEAM.

People don't want to hear it but Oladipo could be a key player(if an over the cap team, they can sign him after everything else is figured out), as he gets back healthy he can be a 20ppg scorer. right there you have 60 points a night covered, maybe more if Oladipo can be game planned better in Miami then he has been elsewhere. Add a true PG who can direct traffic and toss in 15 a night, add a big opposite of Bam for another 15 a night and you're now at 90 points with your starters and all you need 22 points from the bench to be "average". If Herro or Nunn are retained there's you another 15-20 a night if either are your scoring 6th man and get big minutes off the bench, I don't have any doubts that if Strus comes off the bench for ~24 minutes a night he could get around 10 a game(his points per36 was nearly 17pts this year)

This team isn't all that far away from being a true contender although they won't have a KD or Harden on the team.

There's risks... Oladipo is a risk and more then likely one of the 2 positions that need to be filled by Miami are a risk too... PG and another big and I'd expect it will less of risk finding the right PG(say Lowry) but the big... I expect Miami is going to have to roll the dice on someone being better in Miami in a bigger role then where they've been at.

Maybe AirP, but look at that teams that are currently battling it out for a spot in the Finals.

Bucks - have Giannis (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys like Middleton and Holiday.
Hawks - have Trae (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys and depth
Suns - have Booker (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys like CP3 and Ayton
Clippers - have George (25+ per night), plus otherwise would have Kawhi at the same

That's not to say this is the only way to build teams - you can have success in a 'by committee' approach, but having a true first option would surely help. Neither Jimmy nor Bam are really that comfortable being that guy at this point, numbers be damned.

[AirP.]

Maybe AirP, but look at that teams that are currently battling it out for a spot in the Finals.

Bucks - have Giannis (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys like Middleton and Holiday.
Hawks - have Trae (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys and depth
Suns - have Booker (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys like CP3 and Ayton
Clippers - have George (25+ per night), plus otherwise would have Kawhi at the same

That's not to say this is the only way to build teams - you can have success in a 'by committee' approach, but having a true first option would surely help. Neither Jimmy nor Bam are really that comfortable being that guy at this point, numbers be damned.

Butler can be a #1 option, but I think he has been sold on being facilitators.

Although Butler stunk this last playoffs he kind of showed the ability to be a #1 in last seasons finals. I remember a time last season when he got fed up with everyone bitching about him scoring so he put up 30 in the first half in Phoenix then took it easy on scoring in the 2nd half... I've also seen Butler put up 40 points in a 2nd half in Chicago. He "can' be a #1 scorer but he's more of a team oriented player, maybe because he understands one player can't will a team to a championship, MJ, KD, Kobe, CP3, Giannis and recent MVPs couldn't do it. I also believe part of his failure in the playoffs is linked to being disappointed in the FO for STILL not getting him help, even after making the finals.

I think Butler could absolutely average 25+ a game if he cared enough about scoring, he cares about trying to make winning plays vs getting his own points. He averaged 21.5 points a game this year with 7.1 assists, if he just takes a few of those close shots vs passing out to an open teammate for 3, I think he could have hit 2 more shots per game... if he really wanted to average 25 a night with maybe just 4 assists per game.

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[DayofMourning]

Maybe AirP, but look at that teams that are currently battling it out for a spot in the Finals.

Bucks - have Giannis (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys like Middleton and Holiday.
Hawks - have Trae (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys and depth
Suns - have Booker (25+ per night), plus other offensive guys like CP3 and Ayton
Clippers - have George (25+ per night), plus otherwise would have Kawhi at the same

That's not to say this is the only way to build teams - you can have success in a 'by committee' approach, but having a true first option would surely help. Neither Jimmy nor Bam are really that comfortable being that guy at this point, numbers be damned.

Butler can be a #1 option, but I think he has been sold on being facilitators.

Although Butler stunk this last playoffs he kind of showed the ability to be a #1 in last seasons finals. I remember a time last season when he got fed up with everyone bitching about him scoring so he put up 30 in the first half in Phoenix then took it easy on scoring in the 2nd half... I've also seen Butler put up 40 points in a 2nd half in Chicago. He "can' be a #1 scorer but he's more of a team oriented player, maybe because he understands one player can't will a team to a championship, MJ, KD, Kobe, CP3, Giannis and recent MVPs couldn't do it. I also believe part of his failure in the playoffs is linked to being disappointed in the FO for STILL not getting him help, even after making the finals.

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It has to happen this offseason, AirP. I understand last offseason's decison. No choice this year but to lay it all out on the line. Nobody is coming. We need to go get them.

Butler is not a number one. He preaches deference every press conference. He wants to be a beta offensively. He'd like to take over every third or fourth game. I can dig it. I love the team concept. That 2004 Pistons team is legendary. However, juggling who gets to be the alpha is super confusing. Who knows what to expect. A pecking order is organized, at least.

[Bishop45]

Pretty much. Unless Bam and Herro go supernova next year, we've put ourselves in a tough spot for real contention. I mean, it could be worse than what we've assembled, but the ultimate goal of winning it all is going to require more pieces. We still have maneuverability with that this offseason, but it's really a make or break offseason for "this" team to come together during Jimmy's timeline. We have to get lucky with some trades. That cap space we had, then donated to Bam's future fund, is pretty much unusable. We have to sign and trade our way into some deals.

Having said that, we're going to have to take some risks. I'm not a fan of Kristaps injury woes. Paying a cheerleader max money is pretty crazy, and franchise crippling..... However, when you have no other valid options, you gamble on potential upside. At his healthy peak, he's a mismatch problem who isn't going to be shy about taking shots. That last bit has been a hinderance for us, as our top two players definitely love to defer. Hell, Jimmy practically preaches deference. We need more guys who won't think twice about getting shots up. That's another reason I like that Sexton could be available as well.

I said these things last offseason

You're always a step ahead, Bish. Trend setter.

See, I wasn't even being slick (even though y'all tried to convince me that we could invest in the kids and compete for a chip last yr)

What I was trying to say was, all is not lost, but we need to let go of this idea of saving this core. Upgrades should've been the focus last offseason, this offseason needs to be redemption/rebuild. We still have great assets (Bam, Herro, Duncan, Jimmy, and a few dudes with potential), now is the time to cash before anything depreciates (But we won't, cause politics)

[AirP.]

It has to happen this offseason, AirP. I understand last offseason's decison. No choice this year but to lay it all out on the line. Nobody is coming. We need to go get them.

Butler is not a number one. He preaches deference every press conference. He wants to be a beta offensively. He'd like to take over every third or fourth game. I can dig it. I love the team concept. That 2004 Pistons team is legendary. However, juggling who gets to be the alpha is super confusing. Who knows what to expect. A pecking order is organized, at least.

Think what you want, Butler average nearly 28 a game in a 6 games finals last year with really not many offensive options on his team.

Not always is it a player's role to score as much as they can, Butler has been utilized as a facilitator nearly his whole time in Miami, he played the same role in Minnesota, in Philly he basically played Covington's role for them.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Little to no shot for Dame Lillard. Blazers getting A LOT of draft picks for him and a young player or two. Think of the Harden package that till this day we still get chit for but in the end we just didn’t have the picks and we still don’t. If they play it right they may be able to engage the Cavs in a three way trade for Sexton. I mean i would’t even rule out Simmons and picks going to the Blazers for him. Some actually think a trade of Dragic,Iguodala, Herro and Achuiwa gets deal done

[DayofMourning]

I said these things last offseason

You're always a step ahead, Bish. Trend setter.

See, I wasn't even being slick (even though y'all tried to convince me that we could invest in the kids and compete for a chip last yr)

What I was trying to say was, all is not lost, but we need to let go of this idea of saving this core. Upgrades should've been the focus last offseason, this offseason needs to be redemption/rebuild. We still have great assets (Bam, Herro, Duncan, Jimmy, and a few dudes with potential), now is the time to cash before anything depreciates (But we won't, cause politics)

I was fine with waiting for this offseason. 2021 was a really great offseason for FAs. Then...it wasn't. If you knew every single FA would re-up before this offseason hit, then that's great man. Great prognostication.

In hindsight, sure we should have traded for CP3, signed Crowder, signed Wood. Done all the moves we didn't.

Now, it's imperative we hit a couple home runs in the trade market, or we missed our window. That's the reality now.