ImageImageImage

2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

Moderators: KingDavid, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44, QUIZ, heat4life

User avatar
Kobewade11
General Manager
Posts: 8,996
And1: 18,770
Joined: Oct 15, 2017
   

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1521 » by Kobewade11 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 3:54 pm

Shewasfly wrote:The Kings trade talk unfortunately brings to light what a lot of people have called out. The Kings are making the right move with their star in a way that our FO did not.

The truth is, if our FO was fully aware that 2026 was the plan, that they were not going to extend Jimmy, and also that they were not going to aggressively get pieces to help him compete in the short term, he should have already been traded. Either during the off-season, or during last year before the trade deadline like the Kings are doing with Fox.

If we don’t end up getting a decent haul for Jimmy the way things are being reported, and the King’s are able to get a haul for Fox, the juxtaposition of those two trades is going to look very bad for the heat FO. Yes, it’s true that fox is a much younger star, but it is well known that Jimmy is a far better player. The gap in what a team would be willing to trade for each of them shouldn’t be that large when done correctly.


The Kings were always going to be able to get a haul for Fox in part because of his age as you mentioned, but also because he does not have a negative reputation around the league. I called it out here last season when people floated the idea of trading Jimmy, that his reputation around the league precedes him and we wouldn't get anywhere near the value that people thought. If KD had the same contract and said he wanted out right now, PHX lines would be ringing off the hook with teams lining up for a chance at a rental. Teams just aren't checking for Jimmy like that.
Voltron914
Junior
Posts: 355
And1: 574
Joined: Jun 29, 2022
   

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1522 » by Voltron914 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:01 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:Since the page count jumped by 20 since my last check in, I can only assume D.Fox is our starting PG vs the Cavs. Wonder how He'll do against Garland.

PS - Would not give up Ware for any non-superstar at this stage. The rarity of his skillet combined with his fit next bam combined with him being on a rookie deal for 3 more years after this one = value galore.



i agree with you. sometimes we get caught up looking for the shiny new toy at somebody else's house instead of coveting what we have. Herro Jovic Bam and Ware should be the focus with JJJ being a possible but he can go if needed for a star. Mold our core and tell the scouting team to go digging for gold. i would support and watch this team we have now
User avatar
Shewasfly
General Manager
Posts: 8,331
And1: 14,127
Joined: Aug 05, 2014
   

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1523 » by Shewasfly » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:09 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:The Kings trade talk unfortunately brings to light what a lot of people have called out. The Kings are making the right move with their star in a way that our FO did not.

The truth is, if our FO was fully aware that 2026 was the plan, that they were not going to extend Jimmy, and also that they were not going to aggressively get pieces to help him compete in the short term, he should have already been traded. Either during the off-season, or during last year before the trade deadline like the Kings are doing with Fox.

If we don’t end up getting a decent haul for Jimmy the way things are being reported, and the King’s are able to get a haul for Fox, the juxtaposition of those two trades is going to look very bad for the heat FO. Yes, it’s true that fox is a much younger star, but it is well known that Jimmy is a far better player. The gap in what a team would be willing to trade for each of them shouldn’t be that large when done correctly.


The Kings were always going to be able to get a haul for Fox in part because of his age as you mentioned, but also because he does not have a negative reputation around the league. I called it out here last season when people floated the idea of trading Jimmy, that his reputation around the league precedes him and we wouldn't get anywhere near the value that people thought. If KD had the same contract and said he wanted out right now, PHX lines would be ringing off the hook with teams lining up for a chance at a rental. Teams just aren't checking for Jimmy like that.


I hear you but I strongly disagree that prior to this **** show Jimmy was not seen as an extremely desirable piece around the league. Had this been put in motion earlier we might not have gotten as big a haul as the kings would get for Fox (and I think this is debatable btw), but I have no doubt it would have been substantial.

He had absolutely rehabbed his image here. It went from locker room trouble maker to sarcastic but tough, lovable “dog” on the court.

The well is definitely tainted now though, for sure.
Image
Saudades.
Daffy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,851
And1: 4,879
Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1524 » by Daffy » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:12 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Rapaz wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:Have we consulted with ICECOLDCUBANO or WATCHOUT yet?

What does the Sardine Insider have to say?

Pat Riley has them under a gag order. Notice how quiet they’ve been.

All three trusted Heat insiders having gone radio silent during one of the most active periods of the year hints at a major move being in the works.

Image

Does anyone still remember the ICC elevator story?

:lol:



Word is they're still shaking hands......to this day. Firm grip.
User avatar
MettaWorldPanda
Forum Mod - Heat
Forum Mod - Heat
Posts: 51,316
And1: 161,155
Joined: Nov 16, 2014
     

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1525 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:16 pm

Let's ease up on the discourse please. Utilize the foe/block button to avoid the unnecessary back and forths. Thanks
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 51,810
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1526 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:17 pm

Read on Twitter


We will get you Lavine and picks!! You all have been wanting Lavine for years
#FreeBam
#Klutch
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 51,810
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1527 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:33 pm

MartyConlonJr wrote:Heat:
Incoming: Lavine (43), Beal (50.2), Fox (34.8) = 128
Outgoing: Butler (48.7), Herro (29), Rozier (25), Duncan Robinson (19.4), Highsmith (5.2), Heat 2029 1st round pick lotto protected, unprotected in 2030 = 127.3

C - Ware / Love
PF - Bam / Jovic
SF - Lavine / Jaquez
SG - Beal / Burks
PG - Fox / Larsson

Bucks:
Incoming: Herro (29)
Outgoing: Middleton (31.7), 2031 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks get a superior player in Herro to Middleton, who fits Giannis timeline, and is a hometown hero. Gives up draft capital.

Bulls:
Incoming: Middleton (31.7), Rozier (25), Highsmith (5.2) = 61.9
Outgoing: Lavine (43), Patrick Williams (18), Portland's lotto protected 2025 (then 26, 27) 1st rounder, Chicago's 2029 top 5 protected pick = 61

Suns:
Incoming: Jimmy (48.7)
Outgoing: Beal (50.2) Dunn (2.5), 2 x 1st round picks in 2026, 2028 (worse of Suns and Wizards) = 52.7

Kings:
Incoming: Duncan Robinson (19.4), Patrick Williams (18) = 37.4
Portlands 2025 1st round pick (top 14 protected in 25, 26, 27)
Suns 2026 1st round pick (unprotected, but Wizards have swap rights)
Suns 2028 1st round pick (unprotected, but Wizards have swap rights)
Chicago 2029 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Heat 2029 1st round pick (top 14 protected, unprotected in 2030)
Bucks 2031 1st round pick (unprotected)
Outgoing: Fox (34.8)

Would you take on all the albatrosses of Beal and Lavine's contracts and give up Herro to get all the draft capital if it gave you Fox? Not sure I would.

But you do have a Ware/Bam/Jovic/JJJ/Fox lineup even if you just put them both on the shelf.


This is wild and has absolutely no chance of happening, sign me up.
#FreeBam
#Klutch
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,374
And1: 32,225
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1528 » by AirP. » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:34 pm

Shewasfly wrote:The Kings trade talk unfortunately brings to light what a lot of people have called out. The Kings are making the right move with their star in a way that our FO did not.

The truth is, if our FO was fully aware that 2026 was the plan, that they were not going to extend Jimmy, and also that they were not going to aggressively get pieces to help him compete in the short term, he should have already been traded. Either during the off-season, or during last year before the trade deadline like the Kings are doing with Fox.

If we don’t end up getting a decent haul for Jimmy the way things are being reported, and the King’s are able to get a haul for Fox, the juxtaposition of those two trades is going to look very bad for the heat FO. Yes, it’s true that fox is a much younger star, but it is well known that Jimmy is a far better player. The gap in what a team would be willing to trade for each of them shouldn’t be that large when done correctly.


You are missing a couple of things about this situation, Miami kinda went all in with the Rozier trade and deciding to go into the tax a 2nd year in a row. This isn't a franchise that does into the tax all that often.

The financial situation nobody is talking about (because it's bad and the FO created it). The FO has put Miami into the tax the past two seasons (this current one being one of them) meaning if they are in the tax just one time in the next two seasons (3 of the last 4) they start the repeater tax, I've been talking about this since last season.

Why are the Heat looking at a 3rd year (next year) of being in the tax which would start the repeater tax? Not only did they trade a 1st round pick for Rozier but they also traded a nearly ~30 million dollar expiring for Rozier's 3-year contract which is 25 mil this year and nearly 27 mil next. The FO NEEDED Butler to walk, why not trade him? To get off the money you're talking about getting almost only expiring's back with assets and dealing with the backlash from part of the fanbase who would have hated not only trading Butler but getting nothing really tangible for him. Just poke the bear and let the fanbase turn on him (which of course is on Butler also allowing the poking to affect him).

My opinion, since I never thought Rozier and Herro made any sense at all nor paying both of them I still think the plan (AT THE TIME) was to bring in Rozier (high volume scorer) to basically replace Herro in a "go for it" situation (moving Herro in the summer before he popped). Rozier gets hurt during the season, then can't play in the playoffs, then he has some long-term neck injury and, in my opinion, decided or at least heavily leaned towards changing the plan and they couldn't move Herro. I think some anger from buyer's remorse on Rozier got directed at Butler although obviously Riley had some anger for Butler talking like he does. Once again, how does it make sense to pay 2 high volume and no very efficient (at the time) guard scorers who play no defense, it doesn't.

Understand, had Lowry not been traded for Rozier last season, not only would Miami have another 1st, it would have made getting out of the tax much easier by just letting players walk but the FO didn't. It is interesting that media around Miami is hyping up Miami's drafting to find talent yet didn't say much last year when they moved a 1st and Lowery's expiring for a 2nd (AT THE TIME) high volume average at best scoring guard. Just odd that if they're so high on this team's drafting, they didn't critique the trade more than they did last year.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 51,810
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1529 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:35 pm

Monk/Terry
Lavine or Beal/Ellis
Derozan/Jaime
Murray/Lyles
Sabonis/Len

Wow that team is 100% the championship favorites, they HAVE to get this done in Sacramento.
#FreeBam
#Klutch
SA37
RealGM
Posts: 18,737
And1: 9,434
Joined: Sep 10, 2002
Location: Basking in the Glory
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1530 » by SA37 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:38 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
marson wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Some Knicks reporter plugs Randle to the Heat and now i gotta see us talk about that bum. Ughhhhh


PF version of Rozier. Hard pass.

Trade don't even make no sense. Randle makes 33 million and the Wolves can’t aggregate contracts. Knicks reporter mentions familiar name in Randle just to grab a headline.


In a 4-5 team deal, Randle can get to Miami. The bigger issue is getting Minnesota equal-ish value without exceeding Randle's salary. This could be a done a few ways, either sending John Collins to Minnesota or B Clarke, B Portis, or J Isaac to Minnesota along with another player or two making ~20M or less (Clarke, Kennard and GP II works, for example, if Memphis and GSW are amongst the teams).

The main reason there is any speculation about this is because Miami has had interest in acquiring him in previous years and he seems to be a bad fit in Minnesota.
User avatar
MettaWorldPanda
Forum Mod - Heat
Forum Mod - Heat
Posts: 51,316
And1: 161,155
Joined: Nov 16, 2014
     

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1531 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:38 pm

Read on Twitter


I remember yesterday it was Shams did not say it :lol:
Rapaz
RealGM
Posts: 11,429
And1: 43,573
Joined: Jun 12, 2014

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1532 » by Rapaz » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:43 pm

Everything is progressing according to plan.

Next step is for the SAC GM to go full Cronin.
BBallFreak
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 57,434
And1: 18,625
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
   

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1533 » by BBallFreak » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:43 pm

SA37 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
marson wrote:
PF version of Rozier. Hard pass.

Trade don't even make no sense. Randle makes 33 million and the Wolves can’t aggregate contracts. Knicks reporter mentions familiar name in Randle just to grab a headline.


In a 4-5 team deal, Randle can get to Miami. The bigger issue is getting Minnesota equal-ish value without exceeding Randle's salary. This could be a done a few ways, either sending John Collins to Minnesota or B Clarke, B Portis, or J Isaac to Minnesota along with another player or two making ~20M or less (Clarke, Kennard and GP II works, for example, if Memphis and GSW are amongst the teams).

The main reason there is any speculation about this is because Miami has had interest in acquiring him in previous years and he seems to be a bad fit in Minnesota.

Come on, man. There probably was interest but you don't think Ware's and Jovic's emergence changes the calculus? Why would we hamper their development for someone as limited as Randle?
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,374
And1: 32,225
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1534 » by AirP. » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:44 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


I remember yesterday it was Shams did not say it :lol:

This is just the start; I expect more stars will be trying to get to San Antonio to play with Wemby if they want the best chance at winning a championship for the next decade plus (barring injury).
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 51,810
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1535 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:45 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Read on Twitter


I remember yesterday it was Shams did not say it :lol:


“I’ve asked Rich Paul to confirm, he’s been unwilling to do that so far”

The Godfather literally has this man Rich Paul at gunpoint until he gets this deal done. He’s learned from the Dame fiasco
#FreeBam
#Klutch
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 51,810
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1536 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:46 pm

AirP. wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


I remember yesterday it was Shams did not say it :lol:

This is just the start; I expect more stars will be trying to get to San Antonio to play with Wemby if they want the best chance at winning a championship for the next decade plus (barring injury).


Bams next
#FreeBam
#Klutch
greg4012
General Manager
Posts: 8,055
And1: 12,378
Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1537 » by greg4012 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:46 pm

Daffy wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Rapaz wrote:Pat Riley has them under a gag order. Notice how quiet they’ve been.

All three trusted Heat insiders having gone radio silent during one of the most active periods of the year hints at a major move being in the works.

Image

Does anyone still remember the ICC elevator story?

:lol:



Word is they're still shaking hands......to this day. Firm grip.


Image
Rapaz
RealGM
Posts: 11,429
And1: 43,573
Joined: Jun 12, 2014

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1538 » by Rapaz » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:47 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:“I’ve asked Rich Paul to confirm, he’s been unwilling to do that so far”

The Godfather literally has this man Rich Paul at gunpoint until he gets this deal done. He’s learned from the Dame fiasco

It’s happening, 3ammy.

Get ready.

Image
SA37
RealGM
Posts: 18,737
And1: 9,434
Joined: Sep 10, 2002
Location: Basking in the Glory
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1539 » by SA37 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:48 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Kings would take Herro for Fox but grand poppa Riley is not trading his culture grandson. Your gonna hear Miami’s name in these Fox rumors but we don’t have the draft cache to compete with the Texas teams even if we do extract a pick in this Butler trade. Kings are going to ask for Ware and Herro.


Miami absolutely trades Herro for Fox. However, Miami will need to have a Butler trade lined up to be able to get more assets to send the Kings' way and to be able to compete with the Texas teams. Probable best offers:

    Miami offers Herro, JJJ, and ~2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two if Miami has that option.

    Houston offers FVV, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and 2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two. They'd likely take back Huerter to sweeten the deal, hence Adams' involvement.

    Spurs offer Vassell, K Johnson, and Sochan and ~1-2 1sts. Again, they'd likely take Huerter back as a sweetener.

In any case, Herro is probably the best player of that group, although FVV might be a better fit for Sacramento.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 51,810
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#1540 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:50 pm

Rapaz wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:“I’ve asked Rich Paul to confirm, he’s been unwilling to do that so far”

The Godfather literally has this man Rich Paul at gunpoint until he gets this deal done. He’s learned from the Dame fiasco

It’s happening, 3ammy.

Get ready.

Image


I’d say the deal is 90% done, Fox likely lands in Miami tonight in time to debut against the Cavs
#FreeBam
#Klutch

Return to Miami Heat