2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[Moneyball_Spo]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

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I remember yesterday it was Shams did not say it

This is just the start; I expect more stars will be trying to get to San Antonio to play with Wemby if they want the best chance at winning a championship for the next decade plus (barring injury).

Better fits too

[greg4012]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

Welcome to the party pal

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

Welcome, we’re even more excited to have you!

[MettaWorldPanda]

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[MettaWorldPanda]

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[greg4012]

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Def smart to get ahead of it on Sac's part. Not sure it benefits any dream of Miami as a suitor.

[greg4012]

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Prob increases Miami's playoff odds too

[greg4012]

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[SA37]

Trade don't even make no sense. Randle makes 33 million and the Wolves can’t aggregate contracts. Knicks reporter mentions familiar name in Randle just to grab a headline.

In a 4-5 team deal, Randle can get to Miami. The bigger issue is getting Minnesota equal-ish value without exceeding Randle's salary. This could be a done a few ways, either sending John Collins to Minnesota or B Clarke, B Portis, or J Isaac to Minnesota along with another player or two making ~20M or less (Clarke, Kennard and GP II works, for example, if Memphis and GSW are amongst the teams).

The main reason there is any speculation about this is because Miami has had interest in acquiring him in previous years and he seems to be a bad fit in Minnesota.

Come on, man. There probably was interest but you don't think Ware's and Jovic's emergence changes the calculus? Why would we hamper their development for someone as limited as Randle?

As I said to you on the T&T board, I just don't see Miami playing these guys big minutes in the playoffs or counting on them to get us into the playoffs. Jovic has already fallen out of the rotation this year and Ware has had exactly 6 really good games this season. SIX. And Miami is 2-4 in those games, FWIW.

Does that mean Miami prefers Randle over other potential acquisitions? I don't think so. And, mainly I don't see this as a likely acquisition simply because it is so hard to trade with Minnesota because they're a 2nd apron team. But Miami is not going to pass on a guy who has proven he can be a 25-10-5 player in the NBA so Jovic can get his minutes.

[greg4012]

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Kel'el been stroking 3s since HS.

[greg4012]

In a 4-5 team deal, Randle can get to Miami. The bigger issue is getting Minnesota equal-ish value without exceeding Randle's salary. This could be a done a few ways, either sending John Collins to Minnesota or B Clarke, B Portis, or J Isaac to Minnesota along with another player or two making ~20M or less (Clarke, Kennard and GP II works, for example, if Memphis and GSW are amongst the teams).

The main reason there is any speculation about this is because Miami has had interest in acquiring him in previous years and he seems to be a bad fit in Minnesota.

Come on, man. There probably was interest but you don't think Ware's and Jovic's emergence changes the calculus? Why would we hamper their development for someone as limited as Randle?

As I said to you on the T&T board, I just don't see Miami playing these guys big minutes in the playoffs or counting on them to get us into the playoffs. Jovic has already fallen out of the rotation this year and Ware has had exactly 6 really good games this season. SIX. And Miami is 2-4 in those games, FWIW.

Does that mean Miami prefers Randle over other potential acquisitions? I don't think so. And, mainly I don't see this as a likely acquisition simply because it is so hard to trade with Minnesota because they're a 2nd apron team. But Miami is not going to pass on a guy who has proven he can be a 25-10-5 player in the NBA so Jovic can get his minutes.

Any mention of Randle and playoffs compels me to post this:

[batterybro42]

Kings would take Herro for Fox but grand poppa Riley is not trading his culture grandson. Your gonna hear Miami’s name in these Fox rumors but we don’t have the draft cache to compete with the Texas teams even if we do extract a pick in this Butler trade. Kings are going to ask for Ware and Herro.

Miami absolutely trades Herro for Fox. However, Miami will need to have a Butler trade lined up to be able to get more assets to send the Kings' way and to be able to compete with the Texas teams. Probable best offers:

Miami offers Herro, JJJ, and ~2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two if Miami has that option.

Houston offers FVV, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and 2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two. They'd likely take back Huerter to sweeten the deal, hence Adams' involvement.

Spurs offer Vassell, K Johnson, and Sochan and ~1-2 1sts. Again, they'd likely take Huerter back as a sweetener.

In any case, Herro is probably the best player of that group, although FVV might be a better fit for Sacramento.

Why in the world would we trade Herro for Fox???

[MettaWorldPanda]

I have to apologize to the poster who has been pushing Julius Randle cause there actually is a world that his contract might make sense coming back here or sent right back out if we ended up in a deal with Golden State. The scenario would be sending out the longer term contracts of Wiggins and Anderson to the Wolves for the year shorter contract of Julius Randle and the expiring contract of Nikeal Alexander-Walker. Wiggins and Anderson would be better fits on the Wolves over Randle even if they have to eat the extra year. It would also be a home coming for both. Something to keep in mind when hearing Randle's name being thrown out there. Could also easily see Randle heading to Toronto for even more expiring contracts heading here.

[SA37]

Come on, man. There probably was interest but you don't think Ware's and Jovic's emergence changes the calculus? Why would we hamper their development for someone as limited as Randle?

As I said to you on the T&T board, I just don't see Miami playing these guys big minutes in the playoffs or counting on them to get us into the playoffs. Jovic has already fallen out of the rotation this year and Ware has had exactly 6 really good games this season. SIX. And Miami is 2-4 in those games, FWIW.

Does that mean Miami prefers Randle over other potential acquisitions? I don't think so. And, mainly I don't see this as a likely acquisition simply because it is so hard to trade with Minnesota because they're a 2nd apron team. But Miami is not going to pass on a guy who has proven he can be a 25-10-5 player in the NBA so Jovic can get his minutes.

Any mention of Randle and playoffs compels me to post this:

Listen, anyone coming back in the Butler deal is going to be flawed. My point is simply people are getting carried away with the Jovic/Ware stuff. You'd think we were talking about Jokic and Wemby

I'm not too high on Jovic. We'll have to see more of Ware. But whether we're talking Portis, Middleton, Randle...all of these guys would be on 2-year deals that would give Jovic and Ware time to develop and take over a larger role. Both are still 20-21? And historically, Miami has not just handed the keys over to younger players. And at any rate, all 3 of those guys are currently better than Jovic or Ware and may still be better than them in 2 year's time.

As I only half jokingly mentioned at another point, there are some people who would still prefer to see Miami running the following rotation:

Ware/ Yurtseven
Jovic/
KZ Okpala / JJJ
Oladipo / K Johnson
Winslow / Larsson

[Rapaz]

I have to apologize to the poster who has been pushing Julius Randle Fox cause there actually is a world that his contract might make sense coming back here or sent right back out if we ended up in a deal with Golden State. The scenario would be sending out the longer term contracts of Wiggins and Anderson to the Wolves for the year shorter contract of Julius Randle and the expiring contract of Nikeal Alexander-Walker. Wiggins and Anderson would be better fits on the Wolves over Randle even if they have to eat the extra year. It would also be a home coming for both. Something to keep in mind when hearing Randle's name being thrown out there. I Could also easily see Randle heading to Toronto for even more expiring contracts Fox heading here.

Thank you.

[Shewasfly]

The Kings trade talk unfortunately brings to light what a lot of people have called out. The Kings are making the right move with their star in a way that our FO did not.

The truth is, if our FO was fully aware that 2026 was the plan, that they were not going to extend Jimmy, and also that they were not going to aggressively get pieces to help him compete in the short term, he should have already been traded. Either during the off-season, or during last year before the trade deadline like the Kings are doing with Fox.

If we don’t end up getting a decent haul for Jimmy the way things are being reported, and the King’s are able to get a haul for Fox, the juxtaposition of those two trades is going to look very bad for the heat FO. Yes, it’s true that fox is a much younger star, but it is well known that Jimmy is a far better player. The gap in what a team would be willing to trade for each of them shouldn’t be that large when done correctly.

You are missing a couple of things about this situation, Miami kinda went all in with the Rozier trade and deciding to go into the tax a 2nd year in a row. This isn't a franchise that does into the tax all that often.

The financial situation nobody is talking about (because it's bad and the FO created it). The FO has put Miami into the tax the past two seasons (this current one being one of them) meaning if they are in the tax just one time in the next two seasons (3 of the last 4) they start the repeater tax, I've been talking about this since last season.

Why are the Heat looking at a 3rd year (next year) of being in the tax which would start the repeater tax? Not only did they trade a 1st round pick for Rozier but they also traded a nearly ~30 million dollar expiring for Rozier's 3-year contract which is 25 mil this year and nearly 27 mil next. The FO NEEDED Butler to walk, why not trade him? To get off the money you're talking about getting almost only expiring's back with assets and dealing with the backlash from part of the fanbase who would have hated not only trading Butler but getting nothing really tangible for him. Just poke the bear and let the fanbase turn on him (which of course is on Butler also allowing the poking to affect him).

My opinion, since I never thought Rozier and Herro made any sense at all nor paying both of them I still think the plan (AT THE TIME) was to bring in Rozier (high volume scorer) to basically replace Herro in a "go for it" situation (moving Herro in the summer before he popped). Rozier gets hurt during the season, then can't play in the playoffs, then he has some long-term neck injury and, in my opinion, decided or at least heavily leaned towards changing the plan and they couldn't move Herro. I think some anger from buyer's remorse on Rozier got directed at Butler although obviously Riley had some anger for Butler talking like he does. Once again, how does it make sense to pay 2 high volume and no very efficient (at the time) guard scorers who play no defense, it doesn't.

Understand, had Lowry not been traded for Rozier last season, not only would Miami have another 1st, it would have made getting out of the tax much easier by just letting players walk but the FO didn't. It is interesting that media around Miami is hyping up Miami's drafting to find talent yet didn't say much last year when they moved a 1st and Lowery's expiring for a 2nd (AT THE TIME) high volume average at best scoring guard. Just odd that if they're so high on this team's drafting, they didn't critique the trade more than they did last year.

So you think at some point the FO viewed a potential big three in Rozier-Jimmy-Bam?? There have been some missteps but that would be next level dumb. Idk that I believe that.

I DO believe that the FO thought Rozier was the incremental addition to help compete. I think they saw him as a Lowry replacement not as a Herro one, though I do think they had their eyes on moving Herro as well.

But even with all that, I’m talking about their handling of this past off season. Once we knew the Jimmy extension wasn’t happening and they wanted nothing new on the books past 2026, he should have been moved period, similar to what the kings are doing with Fox now.

[SA37]

I have to apologize to the poster who has been pushing Julius Randle cause there actually is a world that his contract might make sense coming back here or sent right back out if we ended up in a deal with Golden State. The scenario would be sending out the longer term contracts of Wiggins and Anderson to the Wolves for the year shorter contract of Julius Randle and the expiring contract of Nikeal Alexander-Walker. Wiggins and Anderson would be better fits on the Wolves over Randle even if they have to eat the extra year. It would also be a home coming for both. Something to keep in mind when hearing Randle's name being thrown out there. Could also easily see Randle heading to Toronto for even more expiring contracts heading here.

Off the top of my head, that deal wouldn't work because Minny can't aggregate outgoing salaries and Wiggins + Anders would be more than Randle makes, and Minny can't take back more salary (which is why trading for him is so difficult; guys like MPJ, Ingram...etc all make more than him).

But Wiggins and Love to Minny would work. No idea if Minnesota would see that as an upgrade over Randle, but...

[DayofMourning]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

Bout time u chose to engage! Welcome to the boards!