2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[MettaWorldPanda]

Here's a trade i've been spit balling that brought me to the conclusion that Randle involved in this Butler deal could be realistic

Heat get

SG/SF Bruce Brown
PG/SG Nikeal Alexander-Walker
PG Gary Payton Jr
PF/C Chris Boucher
C Kevon Looney

* All contracts above expiring

* 1st rd picks from GSW

Raptors get

PF Julius Randle
2nd rd picks from Wolves

Wolves get

SG Josh Richardson
SF Andrew Wiggins
PF Kyle Anderson


GSW get

C/PF Kevin Love
SG Alec Burks
SF Jimmy Butler

[greg4012]

As I said to you on the T&T board, I just don't see Miami playing these guys big minutes in the playoffs or counting on them to get us into the playoffs. Jovic has already fallen out of the rotation this year and Ware has had exactly 6 really good games this season. SIX. And Miami is 2-4 in those games, FWIW.

Does that mean Miami prefers Randle over other potential acquisitions? I don't think so. And, mainly I don't see this as a likely acquisition simply because it is so hard to trade with Minnesota because they're a 2nd apron team. But Miami is not going to pass on a guy who has proven he can be a 25-10-5 player in the NBA so Jovic can get his minutes.

Any mention of Randle and playoffs compels me to post this:

Listen, anyone coming back in the Butler deal is going to be flawed. My point is simply people are getting carried away with the Jovic/Ware stuff. You'd think we were talking about Jokic and Wemby

I'm not too high on Jovic. We'll have to see more of Ware. But whether we're talking Portis, Middleton, Randle...all of these guys would be on 2-year deals that would give Jovic and Ware time to develop and take over a larger role. Both are still 20-21? And historically, Miami has not just handed the keys over to younger players. And at any rate, all 3 of those guys are currently better than Jovic or Ware and may still be better than them in 2 year's time.

As I only half jokingly mentioned at another point, there are some people who would still prefer to see Miami running the following rotation:

Ware/ Yurtseven
Jovic/
KZ Okpala / JJJ
Oladipo / K Johnson
Winslow / Larsson

Depends what you're suggesting they're better at. I don't really care too much who the expiring players are that Miami gets back in a Jimmy trade as long as Miami isn't giving up anything more of value and is getting some draft capital. I care a little bit more if its for this season and next season. I greatly value the developmental context that the young pieces currently get to operate within. I'm loving the growth and growing fit of the frontcourt pieces on Miami's roster. Me likey the synergy.

Randle is a total trap player in the NBA. Still can't believe MIN made that trade.

[SA37]

Kings would take Herro for Fox but grand poppa Riley is not trading his culture grandson. Your gonna hear Miami’s name in these Fox rumors but we don’t have the draft cache to compete with the Texas teams even if we do extract a pick in this Butler trade. Kings are going to ask for Ware and Herro.

Miami absolutely trades Herro for Fox. However, Miami will need to have a Butler trade lined up to be able to get more assets to send the Kings' way and to be able to compete with the Texas teams. Probable best offers:

Miami offers Herro, JJJ, and ~2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two if Miami has that option.

Houston offers FVV, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and 2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two. They'd likely take back Huerter to sweeten the deal, hence Adams' involvement.

Spurs offer Vassell, K Johnson, and Sochan and ~1-2 1sts. Again, they'd likely take Huerter back as a sweetener.

In any case, Herro is probably the best player of that group, although FVV might be a better fit for Sacramento.

Why in the world would we trade Herro for Fox???

Maybe Miami doesn't. I think Miami would, though. Fox isn't as good of a shooter as Herro, but he has proven to be a big-time player in the clutch and he is much better defensively than Herro.

More than anything, I think it depends on the deal Miami can make for Butler and how Miami sees the pieces fitting. Still, in most scenarios, I think they see Fox > Herro. But Miami also won't mortgage the team to get Fox, imo. But Herro, JJJ, and whatever draft considerations Miami could extract from a Butler deal is likely as much as Miami would offer.

[Flash4thewin]

Miami absolutely trades Herro for Fox. However, Miami will need to have a Butler trade lined up to be able to get more assets to send the Kings' way and to be able to compete with the Texas teams. Probable best offers:

Miami offers Herro, JJJ, and ~2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two if Miami has that option.

Houston offers FVV, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and 2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two. They'd likely take back Huerter to sweeten the deal, hence Adams' involvement.

Spurs offer Vassell, K Johnson, and Sochan and ~1-2 1sts. Again, they'd likely take Huerter back as a sweetener.

In any case, Herro is probably the best player of that group, although FVV might be a better fit for Sacramento.

Why in the world would we trade Herro for Fox???

Maybe Miami doesn't. I think Miami would, though. Fox isn't as good of a shooter as Herro, but he has proven to be a big-time player in the clutch and he is much better defensively than Herro.

More than anything, I think it depends on the deal Miami can make for Butler and how Miami sees the pieces fitting. Still, in most scenarios, I think they see Fox > Herro. But Miami also won't mortgage the team to get Fox, imo. But Herro, JJJ, and whatever draft considerations Miami could extract from a Butler deal is likely as much as Miami would offer.

Another part of the equation is Herro is up for his 150/3 year extension. So maybe they are looking at it should we pay Fox assets and pay him 50+ mil or keep Herro and assets with his new extension for 50 mil a year. All of our so called capspace for 2026 etc will start to vanish fast because extensions kick in, payers need to get paid etc, just signing someone to the MLE is getting close to 20 mil, all of those things come into play.

[AirP.]

The Kings trade talk unfortunately brings to light what a lot of people have called out. The Kings are making the right move with their star in a way that our FO did not.

The truth is, if our FO was fully aware that 2026 was the plan, that they were not going to extend Jimmy, and also that they were not going to aggressively get pieces to help him compete in the short term, he should have already been traded. Either during the off-season, or during last year before the trade deadline like the Kings are doing with Fox.

If we don’t end up getting a decent haul for Jimmy the way things are being reported, and the King’s are able to get a haul for Fox, the juxtaposition of those two trades is going to look very bad for the heat FO. Yes, it’s true that fox is a much younger star, but it is well known that Jimmy is a far better player. The gap in what a team would be willing to trade for each of them shouldn’t be that large when done correctly.

Spoiler:

You are missing a couple of things about this situation, Miami kinda went all in with the Rozier trade and deciding to go into the tax a 2nd year in a row. This isn't a franchise that does into the tax all that often.

The financial situation nobody is talking about (because it's bad and the FO created it). The FO has put Miami into the tax the past two seasons (this current one being one of them) meaning if they are in the tax just one time in the next two seasons (3 of the last 4) they start the repeater tax, I've been talking about this since last season.

Why are the Heat looking at a 3rd year (next year) of being in the tax which would start the repeater tax? Not only did they trade a 1st round pick for Rozier but they also traded a nearly ~30 million dollar expiring for Rozier's 3-year contract which is 25 mil this year and nearly 27 mil next. The FO NEEDED Butler to walk, why not trade him? To get off the money you're talking about getting almost only expiring's back with assets and dealing with the backlash from part of the fanbase who would have hated not only trading Butler but getting nothing really tangible for him. Just poke the bear and let the fanbase turn on him (which of course is on Butler also allowing the poking to affect him).

My opinion, since I never thought Rozier and Herro made any sense at all nor paying both of them I still think the plan (AT THE TIME) was to bring in Rozier (high volume scorer) to basically replace Herro in a "go for it" situation (moving Herro in the summer before he popped). Rozier gets hurt during the season, then can't play in the playoffs, then he has some long-term neck injury and, in my opinion, decided or at least heavily leaned towards changing the plan and they couldn't move Herro. I think some anger from buyer's remorse on Rozier got directed at Butler although obviously Riley had some anger for Butler talking like he does. Once again, how does it make sense to pay 2 high volume and no very efficient (at the time) guard scorers who play no defense, it doesn't.

Understand, had Lowry not been traded for Rozier last season, not only would Miami have another 1st, it would have made getting out of the tax much easier by just letting players walk but the FO didn't. It is interesting that media around Miami is hyping up Miami's drafting to find talent yet didn't say much last year when they moved a 1st and Lowery's expiring for a 2nd (AT THE TIME) high volume average at best scoring guard. Just odd that if they're so high on this team's drafting, they didn't critique the trade more than they did last year.

So you think at some point the FO viewed a potential big three in Rozier-Jimmy-Bam?? There have been some missteps but that would be next level dumb. Idk that I believe that.

Big 3 no, just the same thing with 2020, Butler + Bam + vet scorer. Herro still isn't proven in the playoffs at this point but maybe with this pop that's not an issue anymore.

I DO believe that the FO thought Rozier was the incremental addition to help compete. I think they saw him as a Lowry replacement not as a Herro one, though I do think they had their eyes on moving Herro as well.

But even with all that, I’m talking about their handling of this past off season. Once we knew the Jimmy extension wasn’t happening and they wanted nothing new on the books past 2026, he should have been moved period, similar to what the kings are doing with Fox now.

No, once Butler got called out in the press conference it was basically over. He did a pretty big interview with JJ Redick talking about how he was done with the 76ers when he just heard someone asking if they could control him which.... telling someone to shut up in their personal time is also trying to control him. Riley isn't stupid, he knew what exactly what he was doing with that statement, and he also knew what he was doing having Miami doing a press release that they wouldn't be trading Butler. There is nobody who has just looked at Butler's past that would say... that's not going create a bad reaction.

Riley/FO put the owner in the tax this season, they couldn't take a step back and tell their boss they screwed up, not contend, go younger and now Mikey is spending millions in salary in the tax and the tax dollars for that season for their decision. Now if you have your top paid player cause issues, maybe you can handle losing money and... maybe even recoup some of it back if you can provoke that player. I think it's much more complicated than Butler wanted paid, and Miami wasn't paying them (which they weren't for 2026 reasons), they wanted 1 more shot with Butler even if it's costing him millions because his odds of getting future money drops each season, he doesn't sign an extension or new contract.

[SA37]

Spoiler:

Any mention of Randle and playoffs compels me to post this:

Listen, anyone coming back in the Butler deal is going to be flawed. My point is simply people are getting carried away with the Jovic/Ware stuff. You'd think we were talking about Jokic and Wemby

I'm not too high on Jovic. We'll have to see more of Ware. But whether we're talking Portis, Middleton, Randle...all of these guys would be on 2-year deals that would give Jovic and Ware time to develop and take over a larger role. Both are still 20-21? And historically, Miami has not just handed the keys over to younger players. And at any rate, all 3 of those guys are currently better than Jovic or Ware and may still be better than them in 2 year's time.

As I only half jokingly mentioned at another point, there are some people who would still prefer to see Miami running the following rotation:

Ware/ Yurtseven
Jovic/
KZ Okpala / JJJ
Oladipo / K Johnson
Winslow / Larsson

Depends what you're suggesting they're better at. I don't really care too much who the expiring players are that Miami gets back in a Jimmy trade as long as Miami isn't giving up anything more of value and is getting some draft capital. I care a little bit more if its for this season and next season. I greatly value the developmental context that the young pieces currently get to operate within. I'm loving the growth and growing fit of the frontcourt pieces on Miami's roster. Me likey the synergy.

Randle is a total trap player in the NBA. Still can't believe MIN made that trade.

They're just better basketball players. It's not even close.

Now, I have no issue with the fact that you are excited about Miami's prospects and would like to see Miami acquire draft capital to perhaps enhance that down the road. I'm just telling you that this is not how Miami has operated historically. Riley LOVES veterans. Iguodala, PJ Tucker, K Love, Kyle Lowry, Trevor Ariza,...all acquired at 35<, I believe. (And this is precisely why Miami doesn't have any draft capital: it's all been traded away for....veterans.)

Also, no issue if you, or other posters, don't like Randle. All I'm saying is Miami has pursued/been interested Randle in the past. He's a Kentucky guy, like Riley. Like Adebayo. Like Herro. Like De'Aaron Fox. Randle has a similar size+skillset to guys Riley has loved or taken a chance on in the past, like Lamar Odom, Anthony Mason, Justise Winslow, Mike Beasley -- essentially Randle is what Miami wishes Beasley had become --, Antoine Walker....etc.

Again, I doubt Randle ends up in Miami before the deadline, but it's not impossible.

[Bmaster]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

Welcome this is a great site for heat info. I just joined a few months ago but have been a long time follower of forums.

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

Listen, anyone coming back in the Butler deal is going to be flawed. My point is simply people are getting carried away with the Jovic/Ware stuff. You'd think we were talking about Jokic and Wemby

I'm not too high on Jovic. We'll have to see more of Ware. But whether we're talking Portis, Middleton, Randle...all of these guys would be on 2-year deals that would give Jovic and Ware time to develop and take over a larger role. Both are still 20-21? And historically, Miami has not just handed the keys over to younger players. And at any rate, all 3 of those guys are currently better than Jovic or Ware and may still be better than them in 2 year's time.

As I only half jokingly mentioned at another point, there are some people who would still prefer to see Miami running the following rotation:

Ware/ Yurtseven
Jovic/
KZ Okpala / JJJ
Oladipo / K Johnson
Winslow / Larsson

Depends what you're suggesting they're better at. I don't really care too much who the expiring players are that Miami gets back in a Jimmy trade as long as Miami isn't giving up anything more of value and is getting some draft capital. I care a little bit more if its for this season and next season. I greatly value the developmental context that the young pieces currently get to operate within. I'm loving the growth and growing fit of the frontcourt pieces on Miami's roster. Me likey the synergy.

Randle is a total trap player in the NBA. Still can't believe MIN made that trade.

They're just better basketball players. It's not even close.

Now, I have no issue with the fact that you are excited about Miami's prospects and would like to see Miami acquire draft capital to perhaps enhance that down the road. I'm just telling you that this is not how Miami has operated historically. Riley LOVES veterans. Iguodala, PJ Tucker, K Love, Kyle Lowry, Trevor Ariza,...all acquired at 35<, I believe.

Does he? Precious, Jovic, Jaquez Jr, Ware... that's 4 years straight of drafting rookies during a time the team was trying to contend for a championship. I would have never thought a Riley FO would do that in this particular situation before I started following this team in 2019, but here we are.

[Hallstar]

Miami absolutely trades Herro for Fox. However, Miami will need to have a Butler trade lined up to be able to get more assets to send the Kings' way and to be able to compete with the Texas teams. Probable best offers:

Miami offers Herro, JJJ, and ~2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two if Miami has that option.

Houston offers FVV, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and 2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two. They'd likely take back Huerter to sweeten the deal, hence Adams' involvement.

Spurs offer Vassell, K Johnson, and Sochan and ~1-2 1sts. Again, they'd likely take Huerter back as a sweetener.

In any case, Herro is probably the best player of that group, although FVV might be a better fit for Sacramento.

Why in the world would we trade Herro for Fox???

Maybe Miami doesn't. I think Miami would, though. Fox isn't as good of a shooter as Herro, but he has proven to be a big-time player in the clutch and he is much better defensively than Herro.

More than anything, I think it depends on the deal Miami can make for Butler and how Miami sees the pieces fitting. Still, in most scenarios, I think they see Fox > Herro. But Miami also won't mortgage the team to get Fox, imo. But Herro, JJJ, and whatever draft considerations Miami could extract from a Butler deal is likely as much as Miami would offer.

Lol, no we wouldn't. Fox works with Herro, we'd just be spinning in mud otherwise

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

Listen, anyone coming back in the Butler deal is going to be flawed. My point is simply people are getting carried away with the Jovic/Ware stuff. You'd think we were talking about Jokic and Wemby

I'm not too high on Jovic. We'll have to see more of Ware. But whether we're talking Portis, Middleton, Randle...all of these guys would be on 2-year deals that would give Jovic and Ware time to develop and take over a larger role. Both are still 20-21? And historically, Miami has not just handed the keys over to younger players. And at any rate, all 3 of those guys are currently better than Jovic or Ware and may still be better than them in 2 year's time.

As I only half jokingly mentioned at another point, there are some people who would still prefer to see Miami running the following rotation:

Ware/ Yurtseven
Jovic/
KZ Okpala / JJJ
Oladipo / K Johnson
Winslow / Larsson

Depends what you're suggesting they're better at. I don't really care too much who the expiring players are that Miami gets back in a Jimmy trade as long as Miami isn't giving up anything more of value and is getting some draft capital. I care a little bit more if its for this season and next season. I greatly value the developmental context that the young pieces currently get to operate within. I'm loving the growth and growing fit of the frontcourt pieces on Miami's roster. Me likey the synergy.

Randle is a total trap player in the NBA. Still can't believe MIN made that trade.

They're just better basketball players. It's not even close.

Now, I have no issue with the fact that you are excited about Miami's prospects and would like to see Miami acquire draft capital to perhaps enhance that down the road. I'm just telling you that this is not how Miami has operated historically. Riley LOVES veterans. Iguodala, PJ Tucker, K Love, Kyle Lowry, Trevor Ariza,...all acquired at 35<, I believe. (And this is precisely why Miami doesn't have any draft capital: it's all been traded away for....veterans.)

Also, no issue if you, or other posters, don't like Randle. All I'm saying is Miami has pursued/been interested Randle in the past. He's a Kentucky guy, like Riley. Like Adebayo. Like Herro. Like De'Aaron Fox. Randle has a similar size+skillset to guys Riley has loved or taken a chance on in the past, like Lamar Odom, Anthony Mason, Justise Winslow, Mike Beasley -- essentially Randle is what Miami wishes Beasley had become --, Antoine Walker....etc.

Again, I doubt Randle ends up in Miami before the deadline, but it's not impossible.

I'd bet a good amount of money that Kel'el Ware will have a more successful NBA career than Julius Randle--especially when it comes to winning playoff games. Players that need to be high usage and stop the ball in order to generate their own offense but don't generate quality efficient offense at a commensurate rate to justify their usage are traps. When those players are sub par defenders its worse.

I ain't gonna stop you from being a Randle fan. Nothing absolute about it tho.

[Bishop45]

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Respect

[jbsays]

How would Randle even work on the Heat? You going to pay him to come off the bench behind Bam and Ware? Are you expecting Bam to guard wings after him being the center for 1/3 of the season?

I really don't think Randle would compete as much with minutes against Jokic because Jokic is more perimeter/facilitator oriented.

I guess if you're just looking for a big salary to be off the books by 2026? Miami may have been interested in Randle in the past, but I don't see it with the emergence of Ware.

[Lennyzinho]

How would Randle even work on the Heat? You going to pay him to come off the bench behind Bam and Ware? Are you expecting Bam to guard wings after him being the center for 1/3 of the season?

I really don't think Randle would compete as much with minutes against Jokic because Jokic is more perimeter/facilitator oriented.

I guess if you're just looking for a big salary to be off the books by 2026? Miami may have been interested in Randle in the past, but I don't see it with the emergence of Ware.

He doesnt fit our lineup/roster.
He doesnt fit our culture/team first mentality.
His salary and Timberwolves as a trading partner also don't work well at all, itd be a very convoluted trade and probably would require MIN reducing salary first since they can't aggregate contracts.

One random talking head tweets about it and some of yall lose your cool. He's clearly a polarizing talent that doesn't suit everyone. At the end of the day he's a 2x all nba player. Dude is good. But he's kinda like ben Simmons and Whiteside mentally, hence he fails in playoffs. He won't be coming here.

Use energy in a more beneficial way, like rewatching MIA x ORL 4th Q and OT or browsing Rapaz's greatest hits.

[batterybro42]

Miami absolutely trades Herro for Fox. However, Miami will need to have a Butler trade lined up to be able to get more assets to send the Kings' way and to be able to compete with the Texas teams. Probable best offers:

Miami offers Herro, JJJ, and ~2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two if Miami has that option.

Houston offers FVV, Cam Whitmore, Steven Adams and 2 1sts and perhaps a swap or two. They'd likely take back Huerter to sweeten the deal, hence Adams' involvement.

Spurs offer Vassell, K Johnson, and Sochan and ~1-2 1sts. Again, they'd likely take Huerter back as a sweetener.

In any case, Herro is probably the best player of that group, although FVV might be a better fit for Sacramento.

Why in the world would we trade Herro for Fox???

Maybe Miami doesn't. I think Miami would, though. Fox isn't as good of a shooter as Herro, but he has proven to be a big-time player in the clutch and he is much better defensively than Herro.

More than anything, I think it depends on the deal Miami can make for Butler and how Miami sees the pieces fitting. Still, in most scenarios, I think they see Fox > Herro. But Miami also won't mortgage the team to get Fox, imo. But Herro, JJJ, and whatever draft considerations Miami could extract from a Butler deal is likely as much as Miami would offer.

I get that, just see Herro being far more valuable than Fox as a long term asset. In 3 years Fox is going to be 30 and as a guy who makes his living being the fastest player in the league and is not a plus shooter by any means I think he is a bad take. Herro by the time he is 30 might just then be peaking as a player, and has skills where his game may extend into his mid 30s.

[BlueHeat]

Is today the day fellas?

[Bishop45]

Randle would be awkward now that Ware has emerged, but if they want to go crazy and experiment with him being a back-up five in spots, I’m game. Would be more useful than Butler is now and could play in rotations with Bam and Ware

[heater4life]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the site and have been following for years. Very excited to join.

Welcome! This ancient yet vibrant forum was the fountain of youth Ponce de Leon spent decades searching for. You have arrived child!

[iamoti]

Ware is untradeable. Having him for the next 3 years for cheap unlocks a lot of possibilities.

My offer is whatever assets Jimmy gets us + Jaime + our only tradeable pick. Take it or pass. No point in gutting our roster. We wont win **** otherwise. And of course this offer is easily beatable.

Sent from my SM-G990B2 using RealGM mobile app

[SoFlaKingReal]

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