**NBA Draft Discussion 2024**

[MettaWorldPanda]

Its all mental. What stops you and I from being billionaires. They did it, why cant we?

The same thing with prospects. I started listening to prospects interviews a few years back, so I could try and determine their functional intelligence.

You need kids with solid heads on their shoulders. They dont have to be geniuses, but they have to get IT.

Honestly one of the big things i was looking out of Ware and he’s been passing with flying colors.

Yeah, Im feeling good about him. He seems to be able to grasp his role and is able to dictate it well enough.

I hope we work him out and get a good grasp on who he is.

I love the measurables and am happy with the production. Especially at 15.

We took Don Mclean’s draft darling in JJJ last year. Ware could very well be the next. Let’s stay consistent

[greg4012]

Tbh, its probably all mental. It can be the difference between being a Jaylen Brown and a Josh Jackson.

Its all mental. What stops you and I from being billionaires. They did it, why cant we?

The same thing with prospects. I started listening to prospects interviews a few years back, so I could try and determine their functional intelligence.

You need kids with solid heads on their shoulders. They dont have to be geniuses, but they have to get IT.

Honestly one of the big things i was looking out of Ware and he’s been passing with flying colors.

Can you elaborate as to how he's passing with flying colors? I want to see the proof because I've seen the laziness on the tape.

I still really like the talent and love that Miami is working him out and doing their HW. I'd love nothing more than for Miami to get an inside-out scoring 3&D center steal at 15.

I just haven't seen much that tells me that the concerns about his attitude, BBIQ, love for game don't exist (not saying they def do, just an absence of info and I don't think I'll get access to answers).

I've seen like 1 minute interviews with him giving the standard answers. Are there more thoughtful pieces out there?

[MettaWorldPanda]

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[MettaWorldPanda]

Its all mental. What stops you and I from being billionaires. They did it, why cant we?

The same thing with prospects. I started listening to prospects interviews a few years back, so I could try and determine their functional intelligence.

You need kids with solid heads on their shoulders. They dont have to be geniuses, but they have to get IT.

Honestly one of the big things i was looking out of Ware and he’s been passing with flying colors.

Can you elaborate as to how he's passing with flying colors? I want to see the proof because I've seen the laziness on the tape.

I still really like the talent and love that Miami is working him out and doing their HW. I'd love nothing more than for Miami to get an inside-out scoring 3&D center steal at 15.

I just haven't seen much that tells me that the concerns about his attitude, BBIQ, love for game don't exist (not saying they def do, just an absence of info and I don't think I'll get access to answers).

I've seen like 1 minute interviews with him giving the standard answers. Are there more thoughtful pieces out there?

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[DayofMourning]

Why won't it get far?

There are bad decisions and late round draft gems in every draft.

I would want Miami to trust their own evaluation process and not be swayed by public perception and the echo chamber it can create.

Because its such a generalization. Miami good. Others dumb.

Maybe Holland is falling because hes not good at bball despite his obvious athletic gifts.

And yes, everyone misses, even on obvious choices. They also miss on unheralded talent.

However, when a guy is hyped at the start of the process and does nothing to validate that hype, then does private workouts and is suddenly "falling"...well, what does that mean? That hes going to be Jaylen Brown? The guy who didnt fall and is now literally pushing his team to a chip? Thats a lot to ask.

Ok let's get beyond hypothetical. It's about trusting your own process and not having it be informed by the public chatter that is often just strawmen.

If he's not good at bball, how did he lead his GLI team in scoring as the youngest player on the roster? How did he put up better stats as an 18 year old than virtually every player that has gone from G League to 1st round pick in the past few years?

I can't subscribe to the idea that the highest level of professional basketball operators should base their decisions off of the decisions of others. They should base their decisions off of their own due diligence process.

If you don't like the Jaylen Brown reference because it seems like a 1% outcome, then let's look at the 18 year old stats of other top wings (check out freshman year stats):

Jimmy Butler - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html
Kawhi Leonard - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kawhi-leonard-1.html
Paul George - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/paul-george-1.html
Jayson Tatum - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jayson-tatum-1.html
Mikal Bridges - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mikal-bridges-1.html
Demar Derozan - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demar-derozan-1.html
Khris Middelton - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/khris-middleton-1.html
Franz Wagner - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/franz-wagner-1.html
Andrew Wiggins - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andrew-wiggins-1.html
OG Anunoby - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/og-anunoby-1.html
Jalen Williams - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-13.html

Common features in basically all of them--a bad A/TO ratio. The only one with a positive A/TO ratio was super low usage as a Fresman (Jalen Williams). Other common features with most is bad 3-pt shooting. Many with worse FT shooting than Holland, as well.

I like to operate off of available info. Virtually no uber athletic wing prospects with clear scoring talent and defensive ability are also sharpshooting playmakers at 18 years old.

Maybe his shot is more broken than all of the above. I love that the Heat are working him out to find out. If he works out well for the Heat, I could not care less what the hysteria built on hysteria dictates.

Just look at last draft, I bet Cam Whitmore will be a better NBA player than 2/3 of the players drafted before him.

G League Ignite just got shut down. With all that supposed talent available, they got the chopping block. They won 4 out of 36 games with Uber talent across the board. Someone has to produce even on the worst team to put on a jersey.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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[MettaWorldPanda]

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[greg4012]

Because its such a generalization. Miami good. Others dumb.

Maybe Holland is falling because hes not good at bball despite his obvious athletic gifts.

And yes, everyone misses, even on obvious choices. They also miss on unheralded talent.

However, when a guy is hyped at the start of the process and does nothing to validate that hype, then does private workouts and is suddenly "falling"...well, what does that mean? That hes going to be Jaylen Brown? The guy who didnt fall and is now literally pushing his team to a chip? Thats a lot to ask.

Ok let's get beyond hypothetical. It's about trusting your own process and not having it be informed by the public chatter that is often just strawmen.

If he's not good at bball, how did he lead his GLI team in scoring as the youngest player on the roster? How did he put up better stats as an 18 year old than virtually every player that has gone from G League to 1st round pick in the past few years?

I can't subscribe to the idea that the highest level of professional basketball operators should base their decisions off of the decisions of others. They should base their decisions off of their own due diligence process.

If you don't like the Jaylen Brown reference because it seems like a 1% outcome, then let's look at the 18 year old stats of other top wings (check out freshman year stats):

Jimmy Butler - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html
Kawhi Leonard - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kawhi-leonard-1.html
Paul George - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/paul-george-1.html
Jayson Tatum - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jayson-tatum-1.html
Mikal Bridges - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mikal-bridges-1.html
Demar Derozan - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demar-derozan-1.html
Khris Middelton - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/khris-middleton-1.html
Franz Wagner - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/franz-wagner-1.html
Andrew Wiggins - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andrew-wiggins-1.html
OG Anunoby - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/og-anunoby-1.html
Jalen Williams - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-13.html

Common features in basically all of them--a bad A/TO ratio. The only one with a positive A/TO ratio was super low usage as a Fresman (Jalen Williams). Other common features with most is bad 3-pt shooting. Many with worse FT shooting than Holland, as well.

I like to operate off of available info. Virtually no uber athletic wing prospects with clear scoring talent and defensive ability are also sharpshooting playmakers at 18 years old.

Maybe his shot is more broken than all of the above. I love that the Heat are working him out to find out. If he works out well for the Heat, I could not care less what the hysteria built on hysteria dictates.

Just look at last draft, I bet Cam Whitmore will be a better NBA player than 2/3 of the players drafted before him.

G League Ignite just got shut down. With all that supposed talent available, they got the chopping block. They won 4 out of 36 games with Uber talent across the board. Someone has to produce even on the worst team to put on a jersey.

Yup dysfunctional situations are not typically the ones in which young prospects are set up to shine. GLI literally had John Jenkins and Norris Cole on their roster. Yet, the youngest guy on the team led them in scoring despit being forced into a high-usage primary creator role that didn't play to his strengths and he still led the team in Defensive Win Shares.

I just don't see how it speaks poorly to him as a prospect that he produced in light of all that, playing in a miscast role out of need, and he put up better scoring numbers than every 18 or 19 year old to go from GLI to 1st round draft pick since it was created (better stats than guys like Jalen Green and Scoot playing in their natural roles).

Any thoughts on the rest of the info provided? What don't you like about him as a prospect that is inherently distinct from the 18 year old profiles of other similar athletic wing prospects shared above?

[greg4012]

Honestly one of the big things i was looking out of Ware and he’s been passing with flying colors.

Can you elaborate as to how he's passing with flying colors? I want to see the proof because I've seen the laziness on the tape.

I still really like the talent and love that Miami is working him out and doing their HW. I'd love nothing more than for Miami to get an inside-out scoring 3&D center steal at 15.

I just haven't seen much that tells me that the concerns about his attitude, BBIQ, love for game don't exist (not saying they def do, just an absence of info and I don't think I'll get access to answers).

I've seen like 1 minute interviews with him giving the standard answers. Are there more thoughtful pieces out there?

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Thanks for sharing. I hadn't seen 2 of those and got some good tidbits from them. A lot of the responses are standard boilerplate that should be expected from any draft prospect. I like the insight of his response as to how his time at Indiana was different from Oregon--coach Woodson's trust allowing him to play through mistakes.

Love the talent. I'm encouraged by the turnaround over the past year. I'm not sure he's the highest BBIQ player or a guy who is super thoughtful about his own development (the answers as to how he doesn't really have any NBA players he learns from weren't what you want to hear IMO) and he will need to start setting real screens and keep bulking up. But, I'm definitely all in if he passes the sniff test with Miami in workouts.

I think Miami talking to Coach Woodson and Don MacLean and aiming to get real insight will be as valuable as anything.

Let's make sure that shooting is real, get him setting big boy screens, and slot him in there along with Bam spacing the floor and man him up on corner 3-pt shooters so he can run shuttle runs along the base line between corner 3 and rim providing weakside help at the rim.

[RexBoyWonder]

Happy to hear we worked out Collier, Ware and Holland.

They're all making my final top 5 options.

[twix2500]

I really would love Collier to be there and the pick.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Spo had the chance to play Whiteside and Yurtseven with Bam and never did. I don’t get why that’s going to change with a center like Edey or Missi. He wouldn’t even play a PF in size like Achuiwa next to Bam cause he couldn’t consistently stretch the floor.

[Beenie]

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[AirP.]

Spo had the chance to play Whiteside and Yurtseven with Bam and never did. I don’t get why that’s going to change with a center like Edey or Missi. He wouldn’t even play a PF in size like Achuiwa next to Bam cause he couldn’t consistently stretch the floor.

Right, only one big who doesn't shoot 3s will be on the floor. If Bam becomes a 3pt threat maybe Spoelstra will play a big who doesn't shoot 3s next to him.

I just wonder if a guy like Edey could help slow up the game and get some scores in the halfcourt while Bam is off the court.

Right now, Miami has Jovic who shoots 3s becoming Miami's starting PF next to Bam. I don't think a C/PF needs to be the pick since Miami needs to start developing a scoring PG or a scoring combo guard (to play PG) for the future.

[lastb1ckman]

Spo had the chance to play Whiteside and Yurtseven with Bam and never did. I don’t get why that’s going to change with a center like Edey or Missi. He wouldn’t even play a PF in size like Achuiwa next to Bam cause he couldn’t consistently stretch the floor.

Tbh, I think Yurtseven just got unlucky. He got hurt right before the season when it seemed like Spo was gonna start experimenting playing him next to Bam. And then his contract was up, and they didn't have room for him the next season. Especially since he had issues with reaction time and staying in position properly on defense.

Whiteside just didn't have it in him. He was on the outs in Miami due to his shakey effort, plus his rim protection was always flawed. He chased blocks too much (which got him out of position) and had issues with actually anticipating and reacting in a timely matter. It's the main difference between him and Gobert. He relied so much on his athleticism and crazy length. There's a reason he ended his career by age 34.

If future centers we draft have better work ethic, more talent, and have better reaction and anticipation on defense, I think Spo will give them minutes. Especially as Bam's game continues to evolve.

Also, since we're getting these guys at 22 and younger on longer term controlled deals, instead of like at 24 or 25 with 1 or 2 year contracts, they have alot more time to develop and the team has more time to figure out how to use them before they become more expensive.

[Kobewade11]

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Edey Amin

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Those who want and miss out on Clingan will be looking at Edey next.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Some of you are trying to reinvent Spo’s wheel by putting a non shooting big next to Bam and Butler who consistently need to continue to operate in the mid range. Drafting a backup non stretch Center makes absolutely no sense. Unless we are taking this offense back to the 90’s in the run you out the gym 3 point era.

[lastb1ckman]

Some of you are trying to reinvent Spo’s wheel by putting a non shooting big next to Bam and Butler who consistently need to continue to operate in the mid range. Drafting a backup non stretch Center makes absolutely no sense. Unless we are taking this offense back to the 90’s in the run you out the gym 3 point era.

I mean, they're working out Ware and Edey for a reason. They must see something there. No matter what, they'd probably be a back up their rookie year anyways. I don't think there's any player we would draft this season that will be starting.

[Beenie]

Some of you are trying to reinvent Spo’s wheel by putting a non shooting big next to Bam and Butler who consistently need to continue to operate in the mid range. Drafting a backup non stretch Center makes absolutely no sense. Unless we are taking this offense back to the 90’s in the run you out the gym 3 point era.

Or unless the plan is to pull Bam out to the perimeter

An idea that I’ve been harshly against

But if he proves that he can be an effective 3 point volume shooter, I’ll happily eat the crow