ImageImageImage

Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

Moderators: KingDavid, heat4life, QUIZ, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44

contract
RealGM
Posts: 14,012
And1: 23,894
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Location: on your last nerve
 

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1621 » by contract » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:24 pm

Heat3 wrote:
contract wrote:
Heat3 wrote:
It doesn't matter who his replacement would be??

He isn't signing for 2 years. So someone has to play that role. A vet min guy?

How much better than Gabe was he? Yeah you go with a vet min guy rather than give a 35 year old who lost his starting job $85 mil / 3 years.


Not much better. But Lowry was a starter in Toronto. He was a starter in year 1 with the Heat and was a starter for most of the games he played last year.

I don’t see how you can use that as an argument against his contract. They cannot tell the future and think “we can’t sign him cause in a year and a half he won’t start some games”.

We could play that same game now. Dame most certainly won’t be worth $60M in his last year. Beal might not be worth his salary right now. Maybe Jimmy has fallen off the cliff already so not giving up assets this summer for “his” window was the right decision since it may already be closed. So turns out this was a summer of all the right moves being made. Just come back in 3 years and we’ll see.

Looking at it objectively, signing Lowry for three years they were probably expecting to get 2 out of him. In those two the team made it to within 1 shot of two Finals. That’s pretty good and would be hard to replicate going forward no matter moves are made.

Every year further a player goes into his 30s increases the chances that he will fall off hard and never recover again. Lowry was already 5 years in. This didn't require a crystal ball. Every season at least once a year I post a list of the top scorers in their mid to upper 30s, and it's always ugly. Performance, endurance, and availability, all start going to hell ... and a players quickness and explosiveness go too.

The salary wasn't even the issue, it was the years. A 3 year commitment to a 35 year old is too much.
.
:meditate:
contract
RealGM
Posts: 14,012
And1: 23,894
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Location: on your last nerve
 

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1622 » by contract » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:25 pm

Someone need to get the Heat vs Nets thread up ASAP.
.
:meditate:
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,591
And1: 32,273
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1623 » by AirP. » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:33 pm

contract wrote:
Heat3 wrote:
contract wrote:It doesn't matter. Signing a bad deal is always a bad idea. He should have been offer 2 years tops.


It doesn't matter who his replacement would be??

He isn't signing for 2 years. So someone has to play that role. A vet min guy?

How much better than Gabe was he? Yeah you go with a vet min guy rather than give a 35 year old who lost his starting job $85 mil / 3 years.

The issue between Lowry and Vincent isn't who's better, it was what Spoelstra wanted at PG on the court. Lowry is a pure PG looking to pass, not looking for his shot and also knows there are better shooters and scorers on the court at this point in his career so he's moving the ball, Vincent is a combo guard who was a converted shooter who's instinct is to shoot the ball. If we look at the last half decade at PG in Miami.... Dragic, Winslow, Nunn, Lowry, Herro and Vincent, only Lowry is a pure PG, the rest were looking for their own shots as much if not more than creating plays for others.

Spoelstra wants a combo guard at PG and he wants a 3pt shooter that can guard centers at PF to stretch the offense and someone to guard a center to allow Bam to switch more often.
wadenation305
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,798
And1: 3,040
Joined: Jun 20, 2018
   

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1624 » by wadenation305 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:33 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:All we do is get out bid in every deal and strung along bad by teams. We are never in a position of strength when dealing in today’s NBA. You literally had a player say I want Miami only but our limited draft capital assets and lack of desirable contracts keep getting us taken to the wood shed. Let’s get a haul of picks and especially one that unlocks all our picks so we are free from the OKC pick protections and free up Jimmy and Lowry’s close to 80 million off the books. Robinson’s contract will soon also be coming toward’s the end finally. Find a young third star for Bam to recruit and also build this roster properly with money used wisely.



Our Picks mean nothing apparently, our treasure trove of picks would have to be of the kind that does not originate from us. The way I see people talking a pick from someone that is not the Heat is worth at least 3 Heat picks.
wadenation305
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,798
And1: 3,040
Joined: Jun 20, 2018
   

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1625 » by wadenation305 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:37 pm

marson wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:All we do is get out bid in every deal and strung along bad by teams. We are never in a position of strength when dealing in today’s NBA. You literally had a player say I want Miami only but our limited draft capital assets and lack of desirable contracts keep getting us taken to the wood shed. Let’s get a haul of picks and especially one that unlocks all our picks so we are free from the OKC pick protections and free up Jimmy and Lowry’s close to 80 million off the books. Robinson’s contract will soon also be coming toward’s the end finally. Find a young third star for Bam to recruit and also build this roster properly with money used wisely.


Hard agree. Our best bet would be the 2025 offseason when everyone is off the books (besides Jacquez and Herro) and has the cap space to sign multiple stars.



And that's the year Bam leaves the Heat high and dry after more than a decade of being cheap while preaching culture to join up with Mitchell in NY or go play with Wemby. I'm starting to fear that Arison might need to retire as well for the good of the Team.
wadenation305
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,798
And1: 3,040
Joined: Jun 20, 2018
   

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1626 » by wadenation305 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:38 pm

contract wrote:
twozeroMM wrote:
contract wrote:Folks ... we were 3 wins from a title last season.

Honest question, when you watch this team as is do you see a contender?

No. I didn't see one last season either. But there we were. I didn't see one the year before or two years before that either. We overachieve. But the proper response to that is to get better, not worse.



Make sure Arison gets this memo
HEATVols865
General Manager
Posts: 9,025
And1: 6,698
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
       

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1627 » by HEATVols865 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:42 pm

contract wrote:Someone need to get the Heat vs Nets thread up ASAP.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2329144
#HEATLifer #VFL

You're welcome LeBron.

Tyler Herro is a TURD.
Bam is NOT elite but is getting better.
Fire Spoelstra!
Josh Heupel is coming for you.

I’m a proud admirer and lover of BBWs!

Formerly known as Brazilian, QueenOfFairies and HEATlanta.
wadenation305
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,798
And1: 3,040
Joined: Jun 20, 2018
   

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1628 » by wadenation305 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:45 pm

HEATVols865 wrote:Jimmy takes the preseason off, plays with no f*cks to give, takes a game off 3 games in…that’s one of our leaders folks. Now his inner circle is trashing the franchise that got him the closest to a title he’s ever been and legitimized him as an NBA star. This is gonna end up ugly…



Everyone also wrote off him coming in during the pre-season and completely just jerking it off. Shooting left-handed shots and just generally treating it like he was at the team's practice facility. With the context we have now, that does not seem so innocent.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,591
And1: 32,273
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1629 » by AirP. » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:46 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:All we do is get out bid in every deal and strung along bad by teams. We are never in a position of strength when dealing in today’s NBA. You literally had a player say I want Miami only but our limited draft capital assets and lack of desirable contracts keep getting us taken to the wood shed. Let’s get a haul of picks and especially one that unlocks all our picks so we are free from the OKC pick protections and free up Jimmy and Lowry’s close to 80 million off the books. Robinson’s contract will soon also be coming toward’s the end finally. Find a young third star for Bam to recruit and also build this roster properly with money used wisely.

No...
From all the trades that have went through in the last 4-5 years and the rumored packages, Miami tries to use leverage as an asset instead of giving up fair value for fair value. In this Lillard situation I was good with Miami lowballing because I don't think they need a guy that good (also meaning costing that much in assets) to be a strong contender but there was absolutely no plan B if they didn't get Lillard which is a monumental mistake that they keep making just like last year when they stopped upgrading to chase after KD and when they stopped upgrading to chase Giannis. Miami's plan B every single time is "we like what we have" and all that means is we have no plans to fix this flawed roster, it's why we stacked salaries all the way up to the tax or this one year tried to keep the tax to a minimum.
wade44
General Manager
Posts: 8,248
And1: 14,166
Joined: Jun 09, 2018

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1630 » by wade44 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:48 pm

wadenation305 wrote:
marson wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:All we do is get out bid in every deal and strung along bad by teams. We are never in a position of strength when dealing in today’s NBA. You literally had a player say I want Miami only but our limited draft capital assets and lack of desirable contracts keep getting us taken to the wood shed. Let’s get a haul of picks and especially one that unlocks all our picks so we are free from the OKC pick protections and free up Jimmy and Lowry’s close to 80 million off the books. Robinson’s contract will soon also be coming toward’s the end finally. Find a young third star for Bam to recruit and also build this roster properly with money used wisely.


Hard agree. Our best bet would be the 2025 offseason when everyone is off the books (besides Jacquez and Herro) and has the cap space to sign multiple stars.



And that's the year Bam leaves the Heat high and dry after more than a decade of being cheap while preaching culture to join up with Mitchell in NY or go play with Wemby. I'm starting to fear that Arison might need to retire as well for the good of the Team.


The team could be passed down especially since Nick Arison has been a prominent name in the organization for a while now. Maybe it’s time to hope for a sale of the team
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,591
And1: 32,273
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1631 » by AirP. » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:50 pm

wadenation305 wrote:
HEATVols865 wrote:Jimmy takes the preseason off, plays with no f*cks to give, takes a game off 3 games in…that’s one of our leaders folks. Now his inner circle is trashing the franchise that got him the closest to a title he’s ever been and legitimized him as an NBA star. This is gonna end up ugly…



Everyone also wrote off him coming in during the pre-season and completely just jerking it off. Shooting left-handed shots and just generally treating it like he was at the team's practice facility. With the context we have now, that does not seem so innocent.

Right, he's now seen this FO let the roster downgrade each time after making the finals twice in the last 4 years instead of trying to strengthen it to get over the hump. Vincent wasn't that good, he just was the right type of role-player that Spoelstra needed at PG, a scoring PG.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,591
And1: 32,273
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1632 » by AirP. » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:55 pm

Pharenheit wrote:
wadenation305 wrote:
marson wrote:
Hard agree. Our best bet would be the 2025 offseason when everyone is off the books (besides Jacquez and Herro) and has the cap space to sign multiple stars.



And that's the year Bam leaves the Heat high and dry after more than a decade of being cheap while preaching culture to join up with Mitchell in NY or go play with Wemby. I'm starting to fear that Arison might need to retire as well for the good of the Team.


The team could be passed down especially since Nick Arison has been a prominent name in the organization for a while now. Maybe it’s time to hope for a sale of the team

The new CBA will help slow down the teams going over and deep into the tax, this summer was the last one they could get away with some things going into the tax, in a couple of years the huge advantage of big market teams going deep into the tax should be minimized. It just hurts now at the end of the old CBA.

Could be worse, the new CBA could have been like last year where it allowed KD to change teams from his small market in OKC to GS. Had KD stayed in OKC vs going to GS he'd probably gotten his ring in OKC with the trade and signing they had lined up. Ibaka was being traded to Orlando for Oladipo and rookie Sabonis and they had lined up replacing Ibaka with signing Hortford who instantly signed with Boston after KD announce he was leaving.
wadenation305
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,798
And1: 3,040
Joined: Jun 20, 2018
   

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1633 » by wadenation305 » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:59 pm

We got Jimmy for Whiteside, JRich (which had to be included in the last second because Mark Cuban **** us over) and two picks. That was over 4 years ago. Expect less than that in a Butler return. Maybe two picks and two swaps at best plus salary filler. If Jimmy wants off the team, I cannot blame him, I cannot be mad. I would be mad too if I get sold on "Come here, these people don't play around, they are all about championship or bust" to then find that the owner is very much " I want to win, but I want to do it for as little as humanly possible" and won't spend even a single $ in tax to make this team better when we've been to the finals or near it 3 out of the past 4 seasons. For sure if he were to ask out it would probably be to go back to playing with Embiid. The Sixers have absolutely no one worth getting though.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,591
And1: 32,273
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1634 » by AirP. » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:03 pm

wadenation305 wrote:We got Jimmy for Whiteside, JRich (which had to be included in the last second because Mark Cuban **** us over) and two picks. That was over 4 years ago. Expect less than that in a Butler return. Maybe two picks and two swaps at best plus salary filler. If Jimmy wants off the team, I cannot blame him, I cannot be mad. I would be mad too if I get sold on "Come here, these people don't play around, they are all about championship or bust" to then find that the owner is very much " I want to win, but I want to do it for as little as humanly possible" and won't spend even a single $ in tax to make this team better when we've been to the finals or near it 3 out of the past 4 seasons. For sure if he were to ask out it would probably be to go back to playing with Embiid. The Sixers have absolutely no one worth getting though.

Miami is in the tax this year, they're just not above the 2nd apron of tax. I highly doubt they'll be in the tax next year hence Lowry probably not being traded but allowed to just expire... unless they can get expiring players to help this year's team or quite possibly jettison Robinson's future money (like they tried to get Portland to take on).
User avatar
MettaWorldPanda
Forum Mod - Heat
Forum Mod - Heat
Posts: 51,316
And1: 161,155
Joined: Nov 16, 2014
     

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1635 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:10 pm

AirP. wrote:
wadenation305 wrote:We got Jimmy for Whiteside, JRich (which had to be included in the last second because Mark Cuban **** us over) and two picks. That was over 4 years ago. Expect less than that in a Butler return. Maybe two picks and two swaps at best plus salary filler. If Jimmy wants off the team, I cannot blame him, I cannot be mad. I would be mad too if I get sold on "Come here, these people don't play around, they are all about championship or bust" to then find that the owner is very much " I want to win, but I want to do it for as little as humanly possible" and won't spend even a single $ in tax to make this team better when we've been to the finals or near it 3 out of the past 4 seasons. For sure if he were to ask out it would probably be to go back to playing with Embiid. The Sixers have absolutely no one worth getting though.

Miami is in the tax this year, they're just not above the 2nd apron of tax. I highly doubt they'll be in the tax next year hence Lowry probably not being traded but allowed to just expire... unless they can get expiring players to help this year's team or quite possibly jettison Robinson's future money (like they tried to get Portland to take on).

Yeah there is no way they are taking on long term contracts for Lowry. The only sensible deal out there is trading Lowry with picks attached in order to get more useful expiring players but does that even make sense? Absolutely not. The only thing that currently makes sense is trying to shop Butler and getting a decent return. Especially in the form of draft pick compensation. What else is there to do other then hope Cinderella appears in the play in game again but this time without Vincent and Strus though who had short comings where deep into our system and played there roles really well. I just don't see that with this group this year. Dru Smith and Cole Swider are not going to suddenly give us what those two did.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,744
And1: 52,553
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1636 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:15 pm

contract wrote:
Daffy wrote:
contract wrote:Folks ... we were 3 wins from a title last season.


So basically you're saying...Ultimately we didn't win?

Ultimately. So you try to get better, not worse.


I think we agree, the issue is Pat and Micky clearly don’t and it’s leading to fans saying “we’ll fuxk it then just blow it up and rebuild” :lol:

Which after how much we’ve struck out recently or thought we were too good to seriously pursue elite talent that was available, I don’t really blame them. I’m team go all in.
#FreeBam
#Klutch
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,744
And1: 52,553
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1637 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:16 pm

wadenation305 wrote:
marson wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:All we do is get out bid in every deal and strung along bad by teams. We are never in a position of strength when dealing in today’s NBA. You literally had a player say I want Miami only but our limited draft capital assets and lack of desirable contracts keep getting us taken to the wood shed. Let’s get a haul of picks and especially one that unlocks all our picks so we are free from the OKC pick protections and free up Jimmy and Lowry’s close to 80 million off the books. Robinson’s contract will soon also be coming toward’s the end finally. Find a young third star for Bam to recruit and also build this roster properly with money used wisely.


Hard agree. Our best bet would be the 2025 offseason when everyone is off the books (besides Jacquez and Herro) and has the cap space to sign multiple stars.



And that's the year Bam leaves the Heat high and dry after more than a decade of being cheap while preaching culture to join up with Mitchell in NY or go play with Wemby. I'm starting to fear that Arison might need to retire as well for the good of the Team.


Celtics, Kings, Cavs, Knicks, etc.

This front office better be very careful, you will not recover from losing Bam for at least a decade
#FreeBam
#Klutch
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,744
And1: 52,553
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1638 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:17 pm

Read on Twitter
#FreeBam
#Klutch
User avatar
MettaWorldPanda
Forum Mod - Heat
Forum Mod - Heat
Posts: 51,316
And1: 161,155
Joined: Nov 16, 2014
     

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1639 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:18 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
wadenation305 wrote:
marson wrote:
Hard agree. Our best bet would be the 2025 offseason when everyone is off the books (besides Jacquez and Herro) and has the cap space to sign multiple stars.



And that's the year Bam leaves the Heat high and dry after more than a decade of being cheap while preaching culture to join up with Mitchell in NY or go play with Wemby. I'm starting to fear that Arison might need to retire as well for the good of the Team.


Celtics, Kings, Cavs, Knicks, etc.

This front office better be very careful, you will not recover from losing Bam for at least a decade

It's pretty simple from here on. Deal Butler and get his number off the books. Give Bam his super max deal and let him start recruiting and this time we do it from a position of power with cap space and draft picks.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,744
And1: 52,553
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread 

Post#1640 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:22 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
wadenation305 wrote:

And that's the year Bam leaves the Heat high and dry after more than a decade of being cheap while preaching culture to join up with Mitchell in NY or go play with Wemby. I'm starting to fear that Arison might need to retire as well for the good of the Team.


Celtics, Kings, Cavs, Knicks, etc.

This front office better be very careful, you will not recover from losing Bam for at least a decade

It's pretty simple from here on. Deal Butler and get his number off the books. Give Bam his super max deal and let him start recruiting and this time we do it from a position of power with cap space and draft picks.


A good start would also be finding him a long term running mate at the 4/5 that can grow with him going forward and is a seamless fit. These washed journeymen year after year aren’t the answer
#FreeBam
#Klutch

Return to Miami Heat