Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 1

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Up coming schedule for this month.

Wed, Jan 12 - @ Atlanta

Fri, Jan 14 - vs Atlanta

Sat, Jan 15 - vs Philadelphia

Mon, Jan 17 - vs Toronto

Wed, Jan 19 - vs Portland

Fri, Jan 21 - @ Atlanta

Sun, Jan 23 - vs Los Angeles

Wed, Jan 26 - vs New York

Fri, Jan 28 - vs LA

Sat, Jan 29 - vs Toronto

Mon, Jan 31 - @ Boston

11-0

[goodboys lats]

Iggy + double ATL game thread = recipe for disaster. Expect to lose a big name thanks to OP

[Hallstar]

Wait... you're comparing starters who have to go against the best players of the other team to a guy who comes off the bench and sees more bench talent on the court?



If you look at his starter numbers his ORTG drops down to 95 and his DRTG goes up to 114, for a -19, off the bench he's 106 ORTG and a 110 DRTG for only a -4. If you look at his TS% oh my... .472 as a starter and .565 as a reserve (which is solid).

If he were starting each game and was anywhere near his current .472 TS% as a starter, out of 187 qualified players there would only be 7 players below his TS%.

Herro is playing over 30+ mpg don't use that bs bench players argument.

Looks at Herros shooting numbers coming off the bench compared to starting. He shoots 37% as a starter….

Because you can watch the actual games? He missed shots he normally makes the last couple games and it's not just starter, he's been the first option offensively with no other serious explosive threats outside the emergence of Strus most nights. That's an increased defensive attention to adjust to. And Bam has nowhere near the offensive ceiling....we've been trying to forcefeed that for a while. He doesn't want it.

[Shewasfly]

For whatever reason, Herro is a lightning rod for criticism and praise. The truth, to me atleast, lies somewhere in the middle.

I think BenoUdrihFTL said it best when comparing him to other young SG's in the past - reality is, the role is an inefficient one, particularly when dealing with growing pains, increased defensive attention and increased responsibilities. I think he's had a good year and shown some growth in many parts of his game. He's struggled of late prior to the Suns big game, but keep in mind that he's essentially our #1 option at present.

He isn't Luka or Trae. I don't think he's that calibre of player. But he can be an All-Star level 2 guard - albeit he will always likely have defensive limitations (like both Luka and Trae do too).

I don't see the lightning rod for praise part. He is easily the most criticized on the team without any pushback whatsoever. He's often scapegoated for things that everyone on the team is doing. I've seen Herro get raked over the coals for poor shooting nights when Jimmy shot worse. Crapped on for turning over the ball, when Bam got more turnovers. That's not to say its not somewhat understandable because those two bring other things that Herro doesn't, but a few posters act like Herro isn't a 20 point scorer on a team anemic with offense, especially with the way Duncan has played all year, and instant offense off the bench.

Spo is another person always scapegoated on here. That one is the one that pisses me off the most because its like if you look at this team roster compounded with the injuries we've sustained and see what the hell our record is, you have to be an absolute **** to give him the grief he's given.

People got more defensive about me rightfully calling Duncan trash than any criticism Herro gets. I had one weirdo quote me with an essay of condescension because I basically just said Yogurt has things he needs to work on But you can **** on Tyler without any real flinching on here. Its basically the same 3 or 4 posters though, 2 of which are in this thread doing what they do. So its easy to not take them seriously on anything Herro related, because they will warp whatever he does into a negative and use some "advanced stats" to justify their hate instead of just saying with their chest they don't like Herro and never have. But still, its crazy.

[eddieheatfan]

Up coming schedule for this month.

Wed, Jan 12 - @ Atlanta

Fri, Jan 14 - vs Atlanta

Sat, Jan 15 - vs Philadelphia

Mon, Jan 17 - vs Toronto

Wed, Jan 19 - vs Portland

Fri, Jan 21 - @ Atlanta

Sun, Jan 23 - vs Los Angeles

Wed, Jan 26 - vs New York

Fri, Jan 28 - vs LA

Sat, Jan 29 - vs Toronto

Mon, Jan 31 - @ Boston

11-0

8-2 that boston and fakers games could give the heat problems because of tony davis and cabron

[twix2500]

My two cents on Herro. As far as the this year and next. Herro goal is to be as good as Ginobli without the defense. I have always looked at Herro to be Jeff Hornacek quality/type of player as a realistic potential.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro is playing over 30+ mpg don't use that bs bench players argument.

Looks at Herros shooting numbers coming off the bench compared to starting. He shoots 37% as a starter….

Because you can watch the actual games? He missed shots he normally makes the last couple games and it's not just starter, he's been the first option offensively with no other serious explosive threats outside the emergence of Strus most nights. That's an increased defensive attention to adjust to. And Bam has nowhere near the offensive ceiling....we've been trying to forcefeed that for a while. He doesn't want it.

The numbers are what they are and they’re going to continue to be. You’re complaining about him being the number 1 option but scared to trade him for guys that have proven to be elite as a first option.

Herro played for the Blazers the other night when we smacked them so he’s definitely not the only explosive option.

Herro has an elite scoring package. He’s average at best everywhere else. Bam is elite on defense, like arguably best defender in the world elite. Herro doesn’t come close to that offensively. Bam is a more efficient offensive player and better passer. He’s the future of this team, he’s likely better right now than Herro will ever be and he has a ton of room to improve and he will.

Look, I want Herro to average 50 a game. I don’t have anything against him, love him and how far he’s come in such a short time (although I believe his improvement is mostly from increased usage than skillset). I have so much fun watching the games when he’s going off but the reality right now is that he’s having the most inefficient year of his short career and the team plays better when he’s off the court. I hope all of that changes.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I can see the Booker comps with Herro, will he ever be that good? I really don’t know but he can be. I believe Booker is overrated, especially after seeing alot of you think he’s better than Butler?! That’s nonsense. Herro lacks the physical gifts Booker has so he’ll need to make up with it elsewhere. Become elite at getting to the line, increase your efficiency, become a far better passer than Booker. There are ways for him to be better.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

For whatever reason, Herro is a lightning rod for criticism and praise. The truth, to me atleast, lies somewhere in the middle.

I think BenoUdrihFTL said it best when comparing him to other young SG's in the past - reality is, the role is an inefficient one, particularly when dealing with growing pains, increased defensive attention and increased responsibilities. I think he's had a good year and shown some growth in many parts of his game. He's struggled of late prior to the Suns big game, but keep in mind that he's essentially our #1 option at present.

He isn't Luka or Trae. I don't think he's that calibre of player. But he can be an All-Star level 2 guard - albeit he will always likely have defensive limitations (like both Luka and Trae do too).

I don't see the lightning rod for praise part. He is easily the most criticized on the team without any pushback whatsoever. He's often scapegoated for things that everyone on the team is doing. I've seen Herro get raked over the coals for poor shooting nights when Jimmy shot worse. Crapped on for turning over the ball, when Bam got more turnovers. That's not to say its not somewhat understandable because those two bring other things that Herro doesn't, but a few posters act like Herro isn't a 20 point scorer on a team anemic with offense, especially with the way Duncan has played all year, and instant offense off the bench.

Spo is another person always scapegoated on here. That one is the one that pisses me off the most because its like if you look at this team roster compounded with the injuries we've sustained and see what the hell our record is, you have to be an absolute **** to give him the grief he's given.

People got more defensive about me rightfully calling Duncan trash than any criticism Herro gets. I had one weirdo quote me with an essay of condescension because I basically just said Yogurt has things he needs to work on But you can **** on Tyler without any real flinching on here. Its basically the same 3 or 4 posters though, 2 of which are in this thread doing what they do. So its easy to not take them seriously on anything Herro related, because they will warp whatever he does into a negative and use some "advanced stats" to justify their hate instead of just saying with their chest they don't like Herro and never have. But still, its crazy.

I wouldn’t say anemic offensively when we’re the 6th best offense in the league with Herro and Duncan having the least efficient offensive seasons of their careers.

[Wiltside]

For the record, I'm comfortable keeping and extending Tyler. His timeline lines up nicely with Bam at any rate, and he's helping now anyway. He can and should continue to get better.

But I would trade the kid for Jaylen Brown. That's a young, two-way wing with size locked in for 3yrs (conveniently when Lowry expires).

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

I will go on record, that paying Tyler big money is a mistake.

[Wiltside]

The story of our shooters is a crazy one.

Duncan Robinson: 12.0ppg, 3.4rpg, 1.5apg, 0.7spg, 0.2bpg, 0.7tpg, 28.2mpg, 39.0%fg, 35.9% 3fg (3.1/8.7) and 80.0% ft
Max Strus: 11.6ppg, 3.5rpg, 1.2apg, 0.3spg, 0.1bpg, 0.7tpg, 23.3mpg, 47.0%fg, 41.8% 3fg (2.6/6.3) and 75.8% ft

Their numbers are so insanely similar, albeit Max is playing less minutes and he's more efficient. Wild that Duncan is earning $15.6m this year and Max is on a minimum. I'd say that if Max can keep this up, he's going to be getting a very nice payday at the end of next season...

Personally, I think Max is less of a defensive liability and less prone to 'getting in his own head', but Duncan has more runs on the board. Whether Spo keeps Strus starting or moves Duncan back in, we'll see. I think if Duncan is thriving off the bench - let it be.

Bottom line is - they are two elite shooters that we found in the scrap heap. Bravo, Scouting Dept.

[Hallstar]

Looks at Herros shooting numbers coming off the bench compared to starting. He shoots 37% as a starter….

Because you can watch the actual games? He missed shots he normally makes the last couple games and it's not just starter, he's been the first option offensively with no other serious explosive threats outside the emergence of Strus most nights. That's an increased defensive attention to adjust to. And Bam has nowhere near the offensive ceiling....we've been trying to forcefeed that for a while. He doesn't want it.

The numbers are what they are and they’re going to continue to be. You’re complaining about him being the number 1 option but scared to trade him for guys that have proven to be elite as a first option.

Herro played for the Blazers the other night when we smacked them so he’s definitely not the only explosive option.

Herro has an elite scoring package. He’s average at best everywhere else. Bam is elite on defense, like arguably best defender in the world elite. Herro doesn’t come close to that offensively. Bam is a more efficient offensive player and better passer. He’s the future of this team, he’s likely better right now than Herro will ever be and he has a ton of room to improve and he will.

Look, I want Herro to average 50 a game. I don’t have anything against him, love him and how far he’s come in such a short time (although I believe his improvement is mostly from increased usage than skillset). I have so much fun watching the games when he’s going off but the reality right now is that he’s having the most inefficient year of his short career and the team plays better when he’s off the court. I hope all of that changes.

Who are these elite 1st options?

And I bet all your "proven" players are playing for losing franchises.. Efficient is often a code word for limited. Bam is a limited offensive player. If you believe Tucker is the best shooter on this team I can't help you.

[Wiltside]

I will go on record, that paying Tyler big money is a mistake.

I'm shocked to hear this take, Grumpy

[Shewasfly]

For whatever reason, Herro is a lightning rod for criticism and praise. The truth, to me atleast, lies somewhere in the middle.

I think BenoUdrihFTL said it best when comparing him to other young SG's in the past - reality is, the role is an inefficient one, particularly when dealing with growing pains, increased defensive attention and increased responsibilities. I think he's had a good year and shown some growth in many parts of his game. He's struggled of late prior to the Suns big game, but keep in mind that he's essentially our #1 option at present.

He isn't Luka or Trae. I don't think he's that calibre of player. But he can be an All-Star level 2 guard - albeit he will always likely have defensive limitations (like both Luka and Trae do too).

I don't see the lightning rod for praise part. He is easily the most criticized on the team without any pushback whatsoever. He's often scapegoated for things that everyone on the team is doing. I've seen Herro get raked over the coals for poor shooting nights when Jimmy shot worse. Crapped on for turning over the ball, when Bam got more turnovers. That's not to say its not somewhat understandable because those two bring other things that Herro doesn't, but a few posters act like Herro isn't a 20 point scorer on a team anemic with offense, especially with the way Duncan has played all year, and instant offense off the bench.

Spo is another person always scapegoated on here. That one is the one that pisses me off the most because its like if you look at this team roster compounded with the injuries we've sustained and see what the hell our record is, you have to be an absolute **** to give him the grief he's given.

People got more defensive about me rightfully calling Duncan trash than any criticism Herro gets. I had one weirdo quote me with an essay of condescension because I basically just said Yogurt has things he needs to work on But you can **** on Tyler without any real flinching on here. Its basically the same 3 or 4 posters though, 2 of which are in this thread doing what they do. So its easy to not take them seriously on anything Herro related, because they will warp whatever he does into a negative and use some "advanced stats" to justify their hate instead of just saying with their chest they don't like Herro and never have. But still, its crazy.

I wouldn’t say anemic offensively when we’re the 6th best offense in the league with Herro and Duncan having the least efficient offensive seasons of their careers.

And that offense is largely a credit to Spo, who is almost equally as scapegoated as Tyler.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

I will go on record, that paying Tyler big money is a mistake.

I'm shocked to hear this take, Grumpy

hehe

I wish the Heat would teach the Dolphins how to run a proper scouting department


Dolphins have probably had the WORST scouting dept in the NFL for the past 40 years, meanwhile the Heat are looking like savants with all the hidden talent we are finding

[twix2500]

Watch on YouTube

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Because you can watch the actual games? He missed shots he normally makes the last couple games and it's not just starter, he's been the first option offensively with no other serious explosive threats outside the emergence of Strus most nights. That's an increased defensive attention to adjust to. And Bam has nowhere near the offensive ceiling....we've been trying to forcefeed that for a while. He doesn't want it.

The numbers are what they are and they’re going to continue to be. You’re complaining about him being the number 1 option but scared to trade him for guys that have proven to be elite as a first option.

Herro played for the Blazers the other night when we smacked them so he’s definitely not the only explosive option.

Herro has an elite scoring package. He’s average at best everywhere else. Bam is elite on defense, like arguably best defender in the world elite. Herro doesn’t come close to that offensively. Bam is a more efficient offensive player and better passer. He’s the future of this team, he’s likely better right now than Herro will ever be and he has a ton of room to improve and he will.

Look, I want Herro to average 50 a game. I don’t have anything against him, love him and how far he’s come in such a short time (although I believe his improvement is mostly from increased usage than skillset). I have so much fun watching the games when he’s going off but the reality right now is that he’s having the most inefficient year of his short career and the team plays better when he’s off the court. I hope all of that changes.

Who are these elite 1st options?

And I bet all your "proven" players are playing for losing franchises.. Efficient is often a code word for limited. Bam is a limited offensive player. If you believe Tucker is the best shooter on this team I can't help you.

Didn’t you say you’re not trading him for anything less than a top 10 player? So you wouldn’t trade him for PG, Tatum, Trae, Lamelo, Ja, Ant, or Mobley off the top of my head?

Tucker isn’t the best shooter, maybe best from the corner but he plays his role perfectly and is highly efficient in it and makes the team better on both sides. We are worse with Herro on the court and he’s inefficient as a starter.

Bam is on a completely different world than Herro on current skill and potential and I’d love to see you try to prove it any other way.

[Shewasfly]

Because you can watch the actual games? He missed shots he normally makes the last couple games and it's not just starter, he's been the first option offensively with no other serious explosive threats outside the emergence of Strus most nights. That's an increased defensive attention to adjust to. And Bam has nowhere near the offensive ceiling....we've been trying to forcefeed that for a while. He doesn't want it.

The numbers are what they are and they’re going to continue to be. You’re complaining about him being the number 1 option but scared to trade him for guys that have proven to be elite as a first option.

Herro played for the Blazers the other night when we smacked them so he’s definitely not the only explosive option.

Herro has an elite scoring package. He’s average at best everywhere else. Bam is elite on defense, like arguably best defender in the world elite. Herro doesn’t come close to that offensively. Bam is a more efficient offensive player and better passer. He’s the future of this team, he’s likely better right now than Herro will ever be and he has a ton of room to improve and he will.

Look, I want Herro to average 50 a game. I don’t have anything against him, love him and how far he’s come in such a short time (although I believe his improvement is mostly from increased usage than skillset). I have so much fun watching the games when he’s going off but the reality right now is that he’s having the most inefficient year of his short career and the team plays better when he’s off the court. I hope all of that changes.

Who are these elite 1st options?

And I bet all your "proven" players are playing for losing franchises.. Efficient is often a code word for limited. Bam is a limited offensive player. If you believe Tucker is the best shooter on this team I can't help you.

I'd also like to hear the first options they're referring to. Is it just KD, Giannis, etc? Because yeah...not a fair standard. Those guys are freaks.

People don't understand that crazy efficient superstars like that and what Wade was most of his career are very rare. And that's because his incredible ability to get to the basket and finish, as well as draw fouls. KD is an even bigger freak in that he's a shooter with incredible efficiency. But the efficiency they seem to be talking about is quite rare and probably not a fair measure for a 3rd year player with a heightened role that draws the amount of defensive attention he does. I'd like to see the comps they are measuring him against, while also claiming his ceiling is JJ Reddick or whatever they're saying.

*also not going to even bother with the Bam comments. I love Bam, everyone on here knows, but you have to have just started watching Miami this year (which is likely in this case) to think Bam is some offensive powerhouse. He literally doesn't even want to shoot 99% of the time.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

and by the way, I will defend Robinson all day.

Because Duncan Robinson is one of those elite 3pt shooters that can single handedly win you a playoff series when they catch fire and steal 2 games because they went 8 of 13 from 3pt or something. That's who he is. He's a lethal game changer that can go off at ANY time, and even when he is struggling, opposing teams have to respect his presence and cover him. Because if they leave him open or sag off him on defense, and Robinson makes a couple shots and starts feeling it, he becomes a GAME CHANGING NIGHTMARE.

Even when he is struggling, Robinson has a gravitational field that forces defenders to watch him, which helps everyone else with spacing.


Herro on the other hand, is a huge question mark and is mostly inefficient, and his defense is bad. He won't change the course of a playoff series like Robinson can if Robinson gets hot.