Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0

[RexBoyWonder]

2 things can and are true in our current situation :

1) No organization can contend forever. We had a good run, almost got the chip. Didn't happen. Now the window is closed. It happens to every team, you retool/rebuild and try to build your next contender. You won't be a top 4 team every year for forever.

2) We did a really wack job these last few years. Missed opportunities, bad contracts, very questionable decisions all over the place. The Martin contract offer (thank god he declined) and even overpaying Highsmith compared to his other offers (and by that not leaving us an option to add a 15 player)- those are the most recent signs that Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Our front office feels outdated, uncreative, just not good enough.

I'm OK with some down years and a retooling/rebuilding process, it's a natural cycle. but the decision makers need to wake up. I think we need a new voice in the front office. They've been very disappointing for a while now.

[Voltron914]

2 thing can and are true in our current situation :

1) No organization can contend forever. We had a good run, almost got the chip. Didn't happen. Now the window is closed. It happens to every team, you retool/rebuild and try to build your next contender. You won't be a top 4 team every year for forever.

2) We did a really wack job these last few years. Missed opportunities, bad contracts, very questionable decisions all over the place. The Martin contract offer (thank god he declined) and ever overpaying Highsmith compared to his other offers - those are the most recent signs that Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Our front office feels outdated, uncreative, just not good enough.

I'm ok with some down years and a retooling/rebuilding process, but the decision makers need to wake up. I think we need a new voice in the front office.

agree. the new cba means basically punished the big spender teams and screwed all the role players. so the old heads are not even getting the minimum deals because the g league guys are younger and cheaper. its like the MLB minor league farm system now and if the main stars want quality role players they will be forced to take pay cuts again

[lastb1ckman]

Read on Twitter

Outside of FO apologists everyone sees it now, not just us Heat fans. It’s a damn shame

They can't even build a proper roster. Still with this positionless nonsense so they sign 5 Centers and 5 shooting guards than Spo never plays any of the Centers with Bam and the shooting guards are forced to play the 4 and we have no natural floor generals cause everyone is a PG. This is just senseless chit at this point.

Since Jimmy forced himself here, what have we done?
Overpaid Herro. Overpaid Duncan instead of extending or keeping Strus who plays defense. Traded for Lowry and gave him 3-90M. Traded a first for Rozier mainly to get Lowry off this team. Tried to overpay Caleb by 5M per annum.

Thank God we can draft well and develop players. Cuz our FO when it comes to roster moves/contract valuations and negotiating trades is literally bottom 5-10 imo the last several years.

Don't even get me started on the Tyler Johnson and JJ and Waiters fiasco years preceeding Jimmy. Jimmy forcing himself to come here saved us and made us relevant. Pat has a decade of terrible moves otherwise.

Lowry, Oladipo, and Rozier were all good moves the Heat did in this era.

When it comes to a lot of the contracts, I admit they may be a bit of an overpay now, but I think what people forget is that you have to pay players to keep them. Other teams like the Lakers will try to snap them up. And the Heat want to keep these guys. They don't want to constantly cycle out players they develop over and over again. It ruins continuity and hurts team chemistry. They probably also want to be able to tell the guys they develop that they'll probably be rewarded for playing their heart out.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

2 things can and are true in our current situation :

1) No organization can contend forever. We had a good run, almost got the chip. Didn't happen. Now the window is closed. It happens to every team, you retool/rebuild and try to build your next contender. You won't be a top 4 team every year for forever.

2) We did a really wack job these last few years. Missed opportunities, bad contracts, very questionable decisions all over the place. The Martin contract offer (thank god he declined) and even overpaying Highsmith compared to his other offers (and by that not leaving us an option to add a 15 player)- those are the most recent signs that Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Our front office feels outdated, uncreative, just not good enough.

I'm OK with some down years and a retooling/rebuilding process, it's a natural cycle. but the decision makers need to wake up. I think we need a new voice in the front office. They've been very disappointing for a while now.

If we’re not trading for a star Im down to retool/reset and trade Jimmy for everything that we can get, that would be far more interesting than this trash we throw out every night and delusionally believe it can win the championship as the 8th seed and 3-4 good players.

But in the process of doing that we need to point out the main culprit for needing to do this (the FO) and retool there as well.

[Lennyzinho]

They can't even build a proper roster. Still with this positionless nonsense so they sign 5 Centers and 5 shooting guards than Spo never plays any of the Centers with Bam and the shooting guards are forced to play the 4 and we have no natural floor generals cause everyone is a PG. This is just senseless chit at this point.

Since Jimmy forced himself here, what have we done?
Overpaid Herro. Overpaid Duncan instead of extending or keeping Strus who plays defense. Traded for Lowry and gave him 3-90M. Traded a first for Rozier mainly to get Lowry off this team. Tried to overpay Caleb by 5M per annum.

Thank God we can draft well and develop players. Cuz our FO when it comes to roster moves/contract valuations and negotiating trades is literally bottom 5-10 imo the last several years.

Don't even get me started on the Tyler Johnson and JJ and Waiters fiasco years preceeding Jimmy. Jimmy forcing himself to come here saved us and made us relevant. Pat has a decade of terrible moves otherwise.

Lowry, Oladipo, and Rozier were all good moves the Heat did in this era.

When it comes to a lot of the contracts, I admit they may be a bit of an overpay now, but I think what people forget is that you have to pay players to keep them. Other teams like the Lakers will try to snap them up. And the Heat want to keep these guys. They don't want to constantly cycle out players they develop over and over again. It ruins continuity and hurts team chemistry. They probably also want to be able to tell the guys they develop that they'll probably be rewarded for playing their heart out.

You're right, I'll give you Oladipo. Def a good cheap trade we pulled off. Injuries sad part of the game.

We will never agree on Lowry. I didn't like it when it happened and absolutely hated it by year 2.

Rozier trade in a vacuum wasn't bad. I just think it was forced since Heat wanted to make a run like 2022-2023 and Lowry was bringing us down. So it was forced and he's a bad fit with herro in the backcourt. At best I'll consider it a push.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[wade44]

2 things can and are true in our current situation :

1) No organization can contend forever. We had a good run, almost got the chip. Didn't happen. Now the window is closed. It happens to every team, you retool/rebuild and try to build your next contender. You won't be a top 4 team every year for forever.

2) We did a really wack job these last few years. Missed opportunities, bad contracts, very questionable decisions all over the place. The Martin contract offer (thank god he declined) and even overpaying Highsmith compared to his other offers (and by that not leaving us an option to add a 15 player)- those are the most recent signs that Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Our front office feels outdated, uncreative, just not good enough.

I'm OK with some down years and a retooling/rebuilding process, it's a natural cycle. but the decision makers need to wake up. I think we need a new voice in the front office. They've been very disappointing for a while now.

The two finals runs were nice, but this was always going to be the end result as long as the front office felt we had the right core in place. Now Jimmy likely leaves for nothing next offseason and becomes another valuable chip we didn’t cash in.

This is the end result of valuing just good enough over being proactive and evolving

[Lennyzinho]

2 things can and are true in our current situation :

1) No organization can contend forever. We had a good run, almost got the chip. Didn't happen. Now the window is closed. It happens to every team, you retool/rebuild and try to build your next contender. You won't be a top 4 team every year for forever.

2) We did a really wack job these last few years. Missed opportunities, bad contracts, very questionable decisions all over the place. The Martin contract offer (thank god he declined) and even overpaying Highsmith compared to his other offers (and by that not leaving us an option to add a 15 player)- those are the most recent signs that Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Our front office feels outdated, uncreative, just not good enough.

I'm OK with some down years and a retooling/rebuilding process, it's a natural cycle. but the decision makers need to wake up. I think we need a new voice in the front office. They've been very disappointing for a while now.

If we’re not trading for a star Im down to retool/reset and trade Jimmy for everything that we can get, that would be far more interesting than this trash we throw out every night and delusionally believe it can win the championship as the 8th seed and 3-4 good players.

But in the process of doing that we need to point out the main culprit for needing to do this (the FO) and retool there as well.

This was the year to do it. You send off Jimmy to sixers. Get frps. Clear cap space. Take on a bad deal maybe for more picks or facilitate another deal. Play all the young guys and make Duncan herro available. We have our pick protected so we'd take our pick, depending how bad we are we'd have a shot at Cooper flagg but this draft is loaded. And we'd have cap space, a top ten draft pick to add to our roster, herro Duncan rozier on expiring (if they weren't moved). And we'd unlock a future frp plus the sixers frp's we got. Extend jovic. Make a move for a star or sign next years Paul George or Derozan. And we'd be gucci. That's a plan. Gives us a window to compete.

Instead we run it back. Jimmy deserves it honestly with what he's done for us. But it's not the "right" move for the franchise. This is pat being old and trying to win so he can retire after a ring and it keeps eluding him becauze he's going about it the wrong way.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Duncan Robinson would probably be on this list as well if he was a free agent but we sit here paying him close to 20 million a year and have too much pride to salary dump him that we are asking teams to give us assets for him. With the way things are going we are going to keep our pick this year and it's going to be the last pick in the lottery while we give OKC unprotected in 2026 and Hornets 2028. This will than officially lock up any hope of being able to trade 2029 and 2031 next year. Fun times

Money is drying up, a lot of these guys are going to end up signing for the minimum prove it type deal while we have Bryant and Love locked in on deals and Herro/Duncan combining to make over $50M lol

Just brutal Bammy. Our front office has lost all it’s creativity and Micky is actually paying tax for this mess when there’s a path to actually getting more talent in on the cheap without having to pay the tax if they could just dump a salary like Dallas did with THJ or Kings with Barnes. This FO has either led him a stray or there’s some dunski decisions to be had all around.

[AirP.]

They can't even build a proper roster. Still with this positionless nonsense so they sign 5 Centers and 5 shooting guards than Spo never plays any of the Centers with Bam and the shooting guards are forced to play the 4 and we have no natural floor generals cause everyone is a PG. This is just senseless chit at this point.

Since Jimmy forced himself here, what have we done?
Overpaid Herro. Overpaid Duncan instead of extending or keeping Strus who plays defense. Traded for Lowry and gave him 3-90M. Traded a first for Rozier mainly to get Lowry off this team. Tried to overpay Caleb by 5M per annum.

Thank God we can draft well and develop players. Cuz our FO when it comes to roster moves/contract valuations and negotiating trades is literally bottom 5-10 imo the last several years.

Don't even get me started on the Tyler Johnson and JJ and Waiters fiasco years preceeding Jimmy. Jimmy forcing himself to come here saved us and made us relevant. Pat has a decade of terrible moves otherwise.

Lowry, Oladipo, and Rozier were all good moves the Heat did in this era.

When it comes to a lot of the contracts, I admit they may be a bit of an overpay now, but I think what people forget is that you have to pay players to keep them. Other teams like the Lakers will try to snap them up. And the Heat want to keep these guys. They don't want to constantly cycle out players they develop over and over again. It ruins continuity and hurts team chemistry. They probably also want to be able to tell the guys they develop that they'll probably be rewarded for playing their heart out.

They had the Herro asset and didn't cash it on creating a package to bring in an impact player, they actively did 2 times lines meaning you don't get the best out of either timeline. They extended Herro a year early then they had vs let him go out in UFA to find an offer they could match which at worse would be 3 years at a few million more than what he's getting and more likely would have gotten him for a lesser contract. Robinson's FA was coming off a great 1st starting season and then still a good 3pt shooting 2nd season, the biggest issue with this situation is that Strus was already on the roster, showed that he had the ability to do a lot of what Robinson did but instead, they paid Robinson a huge contract. They should have offered Robinson less money and been good with letting him walk with Strus being able to replace some of numbers while using that money elsewhere.

Some other issues, the 2021 plan for Giannis to sign in Miami for a max vs resign in Milwaukee for the supermax was a horrific decision. Not only did they forgo trading for CP3 a month after picking up Butler because he wouldn't decline his player option in 2 years, they also let Crowder walk (who was an OK starter) while only asking for a reasonable deal for a starting PF (3 years at 10 mil a year).

At this point, this FO seems to put everything on hold to chase a top tier player that they don't have the assets which after multiple years seems fishy and for whatever reason refuse to acquire the assets needed to strengthen their runs for top tier players by trading mid-level players before FA or possibly trading guys like Herro for multiple 1sts when they have the chance to (rumored that they could have done this last season). At this point it's almost like they chase top tier FA knowing they won't get them just so they can hang on their own players because they like them more than the fans but can tell the fans we tried to get this high-level guy or that high level guy.

The way the FO handled the 5 years after being gifted Butler doesn't make me feel good about this FO building a contender in the future without a top tier guy basically given to them and even then, I'm not too sure they'll make the big moves or just cheap asset moves around the edges. I think Spoelstra does a lot of magic with development and creating a system for Miami's roster.

[Beenie]

30 days but he’s not getting traded regardless.

Probably not. All trade rumors, ideas, scenarios are inherently unlikely to actually happen.

If however Ware continues to play at a high level in summer league and Utah moves Kessler, the idea of Mia building an offer around Ware, Niko, and Herro n whatever draft capital they can offer for Lauri, isnt completely unreasonable for both teams, is my point

Trading Herro and his 30 million to the Jazz is unreasonable when they have young talented guards already on the cheap. Might as well just pay Lauri the 20 million extra over Herro’s deal. Lauri told the Jazz he wants to stay.

They wouldn’t be doing the deal for Herro

It would be for Ware and Jovic mainly

This is all assuming that Utah likes Mia’s young players of course

If Ware dominates summer league and they move Kessler, the idea of the proposal isn’t unreasonable

[3ammy3uck3ts]

2 things can and are true in our current situation :

1) No organization can contend forever. We had a good run, almost got the chip. Didn't happen. Now the window is closed. It happens to every team, you retool/rebuild and try to build your next contender. You won't be a top 4 team every year for forever.

2) We did a really wack job these last few years. Missed opportunities, bad contracts, very questionable decisions all over the place. The Martin contract offer (thank god he declined) and even overpaying Highsmith compared to his other offers (and by that not leaving us an option to add a 15 player)- those are the most recent signs that Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Our front office feels outdated, uncreative, just not good enough.

I'm OK with some down years and a retooling/rebuilding process, it's a natural cycle. but the decision makers need to wake up. I think we need a new voice in the front office. They've been very disappointing for a while now.

If we’re not trading for a star Im down to retool/reset and trade Jimmy for everything that we can get, that would be far more interesting than this trash we throw out every night and delusionally believe it can win the championship as the 8th seed and 3-4 good players.

But in the process of doing that we need to point out the main culprit for needing to do this (the FO) and retool there as well.

This was the year to do it. You send off Jimmy to sixers. Get frps. Clear cap space. Take on a bad deal maybe for more picks or facilitate another deal. Play all the young guys and make Duncan herro available. We have our pick protected so we'd take our pick, depending how bad we are we'd have a shot at Cooper flagg but this draft is loaded. And we'd have cap space, a top ten draft pick to add to our roster, herro Duncan rozier on expiring (if they weren't moved). And we'd unlock a future frp plus the sixers frp's we got. Extend jovic. Make a move for a star or sign next years Paul George or Derozan. And we'd be gucci. That's a plan. Gives us a window to compete.

Instead we run it back. Jimmy deserves it honestly with what he's done for us. But it's not the "right" move for the franchise. This is pat being old and trying to win so he can retire after a ring and it keeps eluding him becauze he's going about it the wrong way.

What makes it worse is you know damn well Pat isn’t giving Jimmy 4/$240M after this season so if Jimmy is dead set on the money that’s been reported he’s for sure walking for nothing lol. Maybe a sign and trade but that’ll get us less than we could’ve got for him

[MartianTimeSlip]

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?s=46

[AirP.]

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[Flash4thewin]

Since Jimmy forced himself here, what have we done?
Overpaid Herro. Overpaid Duncan instead of extending or keeping Strus who plays defense. Traded for Lowry and gave him 3-90M. Traded a first for Rozier mainly to get Lowry off this team. Tried to overpay Caleb by 5M per annum.

Thank God we can draft well and develop players. Cuz our FO when it comes to roster moves/contract valuations and negotiating trades is literally bottom 5-10 imo the last several years.

Don't even get me started on the Tyler Johnson and JJ and Waiters fiasco years preceeding Jimmy. Jimmy forcing himself to come here saved us and made us relevant. Pat has a decade of terrible moves otherwise.

Lowry, Oladipo, and Rozier were all good moves the Heat did in this era.

When it comes to a lot of the contracts, I admit they may be a bit of an overpay now, but I think what people forget is that you have to pay players to keep them. Other teams like the Lakers will try to snap them up. And the Heat want to keep these guys. They don't want to constantly cycle out players they develop over and over again. It ruins continuity and hurts team chemistry. They probably also want to be able to tell the guys they develop that they'll probably be rewarded for playing their heart out.

They had the Herro asset and didn't cash it on creating a package to bring in an impact player, they actively did 2 times lines meaning you don't get the best out of either timeline. They extended Herro a year early then they had vs let him go out in UFA to find an offer they could match which at worse would be 3 years at a few million more than what he's getting and more likely would have gotten him for a lesser contract. Robinson's FA was coming off a great 1st starting season and then still a good 3pt shooting 2nd season, the biggest issue with this situation is that Strus was already on the roster, showed that he had the ability to do a lot of what Robinson did but instead, they paid Robinson a huge contract. They should have offered Robinson less money and been good with letting him walk with Strus being able to replace some of numbers while using that money elsewhere.

Some other issues, the 2021 plan for Giannis to sign in Miami for a max vs resign in Milwaukee for the supermax was a horrific decision. Not only did they forgo trading for CP3 a month after picking up Butler because he wouldn't decline his player option in 2 years, they also let Crowder walk (who was an OK starter) while only asking for a reasonable deal for a starting PF (3 years at 10 mil a year).

At this point, this FO seems to put everything on hold to chase a top tier player that they don't have the assets which after multiple years seems fishy and for whatever reason refuse to acquire the assets needed to strengthen their runs for top tier players by trading mid-level players before FA or possibly trading guys like Herro for multiple 1sts when they have the chance to (rumored that they could have done this last season). At this point it's almost like they chase top tier FA knowing they won't get them just so they can hang on their own players because they like them more than the fans but can tell the fans we tried to get this high-level guy or that high level guy.

This is the foundation of the 2026 plan which just seems foolish at this point. The top player will resign or get extensions that pay more. That leaves us with players that current teams wont want to max.

Durant will ba a free agent at the young age of 38 that free agency period.
Jimmy assuming he opts in and takes 50 mil, will be 37 that fee agency period
Dame if he opts out will be a free agent that summer.

Players like Fox, will resign with a players option to not only get the 10 year max but to qualify for a NTC.

[AirP.]

Would be wonderful to send out Robinson and maybe an asset to get a S&T with Tyus for less than what Robinson is making. He's not a great talent but he's a very safe player who seems to make the right decisions to help his team.

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[MorbidHEAT]

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?s=46

Was that a shot? What winning culture?

[ZoStrong]

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Outside of FO apologists everyone sees it now, not just us Heat fans. It’s a damn shame

Not trying to defend or criticize..

BUT, 1/3 of teams don't even make the playff, the another 1/3 are just pretenders. And he can't think of too many teams who are more disappointing? Overdramatic a little, lol

[ZoStrong]

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?s=46

Was that a shot? What winning culture?

He gotta say something, anything, to cover up his/his agent's mistake at this pt

[AirP.]

This is the foundation of the 2026 plan which just seems foolish at this point. The top player will resign or get extensions that pay more. That leaves us with players that current teams wont want to max.

Durant will ba a free agent at the young age of 38 that free agency period.
Jimmy assuming he opts in and takes 50 mil, will be 37 that fee agency period
Dame if he opts out will be a free agent that summer.

Players like Fox, will resign with a players option to not only get the 10 year max but to qualify for a NTC.

Durant is a 7 foot SG playing as a big, he's basically going to be a scorer until he decides he no longer wants to play in the NBA(train and travel), he seems to love the NBA and I could see him deciding to play into his 40s or until another major injury happens. Butler's game and how he works on staying in tip top shape should continue to be good for a few more years until he too decides he's had enough with the work and travel which most are done with early to their mid 30s. Lillard, I'm interested in how long he can be highly effective as a scorer since his quickness he needs to attack with will continue to drop quicker than most athletic skills he needs for basketball.

We're getting to a point where the money is large enough for some of the top players to continue with the hard work to stay in shape and endure more seasons in the NBA. I expect seeing players who topped out in the top 30 in their careers being able to play at a high level deep into their 30s and some genetic freaks like LeBron into their 40s. 20+ years ago without the technology or medical advances, K.Malone put up 20 a night until he finally left Utah and played with the Lakers at age 40.