Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It?

[Feel_the_Heat15]

Knicks open to trading Randle. Now that's a player I could entertain trading for.

[Yacks84]

I'd consider Bamba if the cost did not include Winslow, Bam, Jimmy, Herro or Duncan Robinson.

I.e. I'd give up Nunn, Dragic, Olynyk, JJ, Dion, Derrick Jones Jr, Leonard. Pick and choose.

E.g. Nunn, Derrick Jones Jr and Kelly Olynyk for Mo Bamba, Khem Birch and DJ Augustin

C - Mo Bamba / Meyers Leonard / Chris Silva
PF - Bam Adebayo / James Johnson / Khem Birch
SF - Jimmy Butler / Duncan Robinson / KZ Okpala
SG - Tyler Herro / Dion Waiters
PG - Justise Winslow / Goran Dragic / DJ Augustin

Am I missing something with the whole Mo Bamba thing? Don’t get me wrong I agree he has potential but this seems like a lot of pieces for a guy through his first two seasons is averaging 6 pts and 5 rebounds a game. Maybe its just me but long lanky guys also scare the hell out of me injury wise. I could be convinced to give up Nunn but I would want a lot more in return than Mo and DJ. Again, JMO.

Well I am giving up Kelly O (who while good, is 13 mill on the cap in FA 21), Derrick Jones Jr (who we have no way of retaining while keeping max cap space), and Nunn (who I like, but who is an undrafted guy at a position where I still think Justise belongs as starter). So as I see it, only one long term piece in Nunn. I am trading back for a lotto pick that is full of unrealized potential. I watched the Lakers game and it is bleedingly obvious we need some athletic size to add to Bam. Bamba seems agile long and bouncy. I figure Nunn is the minimum it would cost. Birch and Augustin help us too as they are expiring. We free up another 6 mill or so

Agree we are way undersized to compete with the teams we are going to have to beat to make it anywhere in the playoffs (mostly Philly and LAL) but I’m just not sold that Bamba can be that guy. I would rather see Miami make a run at LaMarcus Aldridge before Bamba. I just look at him as to much of a project for this team. Could he blossom like KG or Jermaine O’neal? Possibly. Could he bust like Jonathan Bender or Stromile Swift? Also a possibility. I just prefer the bird in the hand approach which is what I think you have with Nunn (at this point) and Aldridge. Maybe a Winslow, KO (or preferably Leonard) and a first for Aldridge. Also, if we got Aldridge he would be off the books by 2021 summer and we could go whale hunting ( The Freak) which with him and Bam eases the concern of front line size. I guess I just am uncomfortable with a project like Bamba at this point with this team. I’d move Nunn but he’d have to be swapped with more of a sure thing as his iron is pretty hot right now. Again, JMO

[MartyConlonJr]

Am I missing something with the whole Mo Bamba thing? Don’t get me wrong I agree he has potential but this seems like a lot of pieces for a guy through his first two seasons is averaging 6 pts and 5 rebounds a game. Maybe its just me but long lanky guys also scare the hell out of me injury wise. I could be convinced to give up Nunn but I would want a lot more in return than Mo and DJ. Again, JMO.

Well I am giving up Kelly O (who while good, is 13 mill on the cap in FA 21), Derrick Jones Jr (who we have no way of retaining while keeping max cap space), and Nunn (who I like, but who is an undrafted guy at a position where I still think Justise belongs as starter). So as I see it, only one long term piece in Nunn. I am trading back for a lotto pick that is full of unrealized potential. I watched the Lakers game and it is bleedingly obvious we need some athletic size to add to Bam. Bamba seems agile long and bouncy. I figure Nunn is the minimum it would cost. Birch and Augustin help us too as they are expiring. We free up another 6 mill or so

Agree we are way undersized to compete with the teams we are going to have to beat to make it anywhere in the playoffs (mostly Philly and LAL) but I’m just not sold that Bamba can be that guy. I would rather see Miami make a run at LaMarcus Aldridge before Bamba. I just look at him as to much of a project for this team. Could he blossom like KG or Jermaine O’neal? Possibly. Could he bust like Jonathan Bender or Stromile Swift? Also a possibility. I just prefer the bird in the hand approach which is what I think you have with Nunn (at this point) and Aldridge. Maybe a Winslow, KO (or preferably Leonard) and a first for Aldridge. Also, if we got Aldridge he would be off the books by 2021 summer and we could go whale hunting ( The Freak) which with him and Bam eases the concern of front line size. I guess I just am uncomfortable with a project like Bamba at this point with this team. I’d move Nunn but he’d have to be swapped with more of a sure thing as his iron is pretty hot right now. Again, JMO

I haven't watched enough of Bamba, so I could be wrong, but his per36 numbers are:
13.9 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 1.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 3.0 bpg, with 1.8 3pm @ 38.8% 3pt%. His 2pt% is low at 48.8%, but last year was 55.5% so I have confidence that is going to rise. His ft% has gone from 58.7% last year to 66.7% this year, which is encouraging.

Bams per36 numbers last year at the same age were:
13.7 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg, on 58.9% 2pt%

So they have similar point and rebound production, but while Bam is an amazing facilitator, Bamba is an outstanding shotblocker and stretches the defense to the 3 point line. They appear to have complimentary skills

[AirP.]

Simmons and Embiid look like they are who they are. Embiid has definitely regressed compared to previous seasons so what makes you so sure he's going to get better?

Sure but Simmons is shoot once in a while during games so he is showing improvement. The biggest improvement would be for the 76ers to finally decide who to build around and actually cator a team to that player, right now they're trying to do both which limits both of their young stars. I still believe Embiid will be the one to go, in the last year Philly has spent big money on Horford (who is an idea center next to Simmons) and big money on Harris(who is having to play the 3 but is idea as a stretch 4 next to Simmons) makes me think they're already heading towards building around Simmons.

1.Why would the Raptors trade away Gasol and Lowry when their contracts are up in less than 2 years and are still serviceable players?

To get assets to add to their young core which already has Sakiam, Ananoby, and VanVleet?

2.What teams out their has the assets and has a need for Lowry/Gasol? Most of the contenders today don't have the assets to get those players. Raptors aren't giving up Lowry for a 2nd round pick and Eric Gordon.

At some point Boston has to make some tough decisions with their younger players and assets. They're a team that would love to have Gasol to help contain Embiid in the playoffs but their contracts make that difficult. Houston is always looking at ways to get players, this doesn't mean the go straight to Toronto to add Gasol, they'd expand the trade. Golden State is going to be interesting, do they go all in with their hurt core and try to win a few more championships or do they diversify their roster with talent at different ages and lessen their chances at Championships now to have prolonged success?

You're acting like Butler is going to turn into a net negative player in 2021. Yeah, he's going to decline a bit but he will still arguably be a top 10 SG.

I'm not sure an arguably top 10 player at a any particular position is worth a max contract. He'll be the same bad contract in 2 years that everyone now says about the CP3 and Love types hence my reason to try to win now without sacrificing too much although that means having to make moves in 2021 to have enough space for a max guy(unless you make another trade like Miami did for Butler). If a guy wants to come to Miami he can make it happen, even if there's not enough cap space available.

Roster improvement should more than help to offset any decline. We're not coasting, we just can't do anything that makes sense till 2021. Didn't the Lakers punt last season? Do you see a KD or Irving we could trade for this season because I don't. Chris Paul or Kevin Love aren't turning us into contenders.

You can't do anything that makes ssense till 2021, sounds a lot like coasting.

[AirP.]

Seems to me that the disconnect between your perspective and most Heat fans can be pinpointed to the belief in our young talent.

I'm of the belief that the Heat's young core is one of the most promising in the NBA, and that the iteration of Bam, Herro, D-Rob and Nunn that will likely be on the Heat in 2021 will each be superior (some significantly--Bam and Herro) from their current versions.

Maybe, I think Bam will be a near max player, Herro has great upside, I wouldn't try to move D-Rob or Nunn either, everyone else(possibly not Dragic, I'd like to see him resigned as a vet 6th man) can be moved to upgrade the talent.

My disconnect is that Butler is near the end of his prime and needs more scoring vets to stabilize the offense, the upside with Miami is great, but the downside with these young players is bad. All I'm saying is add another 1 or 2 good/great vets without sacrificing most if not all that young talent would do wonders for this team for the next 2-4 years. If it's a possibility a top tier free agent wants to come to Miami, you don't HAVE to have the cap space you can do what you did to get Butler, I don't get why this isn't the option people are rooting for, make the team better now and later, you just might have to give up an asset or 2 for a top tier player.

[Majestic7]

This is a week old, but it's worth listening to.

Watch on YouTube

[Kobewade11]

We aren't finishing 6th... God we have our first tough loss and our fans go into shambles.

I highly doubt we completely miss in 2021. We are sure to get at least one of, Giannis, Leonard, PG, Oladipo, Holiday or Gobert.

agreed on the bolded, but that's just how this fanbase is. It's either at 0 or 100, never anything in between.

As far as that FA class I don't think anything is a guarantee. Kawhi and PG are probably in California for good. Does anyone here really want to give what will be a 33 year old Jrue Holiday max money? I certainly don't. Oladipo: you have to see how Herro looks two years from now, that name might not make any sense. That leaves Giannis and Gobert. If the Bucks don't get any guarantees from Giannis they'll probably look to move him before summer of 2021, we would probably have the combination of players and picks that intrigue them.

We are forgetting that players have real power and say in what happens in trades. Say Giannis want to force his way to LA to play with AD and Lebron? We dont have Wade doing his recruiting anymore since he retired. What special connection do we have with Giannis for example?

We could do these hypotheticals with any player. My guess is that the guy who said he didnt want to work out with LeBron probably isnt going to demand a trade to go be his lap dog in LA. That’s not to say that I’m saying he wants to come here, or be anywhere but Milwaukee. But if things changed and all of a sudden he has 3-5 destinations he’d rather be, I have no reason to think we wouldnt be on the list. Do you?

[greg4012]

Seems to me that the disconnect between your perspective and most Heat fans can be pinpointed to the belief in our young talent.

I'm of the belief that the Heat's young core is one of the most promising in the NBA, and that the iteration of Bam, Herro, D-Rob and Nunn that will likely be on the Heat in 2021 will each be superior (some significantly--Bam and Herro) from their current versions.

Maybe, I think Bam will be a near max player, Herro has great upside, I wouldn't try to move D-Rob or Nunn either, everyone else(possibly not Dragic, I'd like to see him resigned as a vet 6th man) can be moved to upgrade the talent.

My disconnect is that Butler is near the end of his prime and needs more scoring vets to stabilize the offense, the upside with Miami is great, but the downside with these young players is bad. All I'm saying is add another 1 or 2 good/great vets without sacrificing most if not all that young talent would do wonders for this team for the next 2-4 years. If it's a possibility a top tier free agent wants to come to Miami, you don't HAVE to have the cap space you can do what you did to get Butler, I don't get why this isn't the option people are rooting for, make the team better now and later, you just might have to give up an asset or 2 for a top tier player.

I agree with the general sentiment of your stance with regards to maximizing Butler's window. But, in prior posts you speak to potentially not being that appealing of a draw for free agents in 2021 due to Butler being 32. That's where you lose me because I fully expect a core including 24-year old Bam, 21-year old Herro and some combo of 1-2 of our other young guys with 32-year old Butler to be extremely enticing. I expect 24-year old Bam to be an absolute monster and for 21-year old Herro to be a high level scorer.

Another place you lose people is calling us a 7 seed now. What? Worst case we fall to 6. But, the reality is seeds 2 through 6 in the Eastern Conference are all roughly the same tier. It's not exactly an indictment.

I'm down to explore options to move around some pieces to beef up the team today. But, unless something special comes up, it's not worth it to give up too much of our young core nor is it worth it to sacrifice the 2021 plan (where our core youth will just be coming into their own!) for a mediocre addition that makes us marginally better today.

[Bishop45]

Knicks open to trading Randle. Now that's a player I could entertain trading for.

Read on Twitter

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[HeatIn5]

I would definitely give Winslow, Goran, Kelly for Jrue (find a way for them to take JJ or Waiters)

[Kobewade11]

I would definitely give Winslow, Goran, Kelly for Jrue (find a way for them to take JJ or Waiters)

With Ingram and Zion, I’d imagine NO would be most interested in Nunn. They’d probably take Dragic’s expiring too but I dont know how much a trade that cuts into 2021 cap space wets our appetite.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

Simmons and Embiid look like they are who they are. Embiid has definitely regressed compared to previous seasons so what makes you so sure he's going to get better?

Sure but Simmons is shoot once in a while during games so he is showing improvement. The biggest improvement would be for the 76ers to finally decide who to build around and actually cator a team to that player, right now they're trying to do both which limits both of their young stars. I still believe Embiid will be the one to go, in the last year Philly has spent big money on Horford (who is an idea center next to Simmons) and big money on Harris(who is having to play the 3 but is idea as a stretch 4 next to Simmons) makes me think they're already heading towards building around Simmons.

1.Why would the Raptors trade away Gasol and Lowry when their contracts are up in less than 2 years and are still serviceable players?

To get assets to add to their young core which already has Sakiam, Ananoby, and VanVleet?

2.What teams out their has the assets and has a need for Lowry/Gasol? Most of the contenders today don't have the assets to get those players. Raptors aren't giving up Lowry for a 2nd round pick and Eric Gordon.

At some point Boston has to make some tough decisions with their younger players and assets. They're a team that would love to have Gasol to help contain Embiid in the playoffs but their contracts make that difficult. Houston is always looking at ways to get players, this doesn't mean the go straight to Toronto to add Gasol, they'd expand the trade. Golden State is going to be interesting, do they go all in with their hurt core and try to win a few more championships or do they diversify their roster with talent at different ages and lessen their chances at Championships now to have prolonged success?

You're acting like Butler is going to turn into a net negative player in 2021. Yeah, he's going to decline a bit but he will still arguably be a top 10 SG.

I'm not sure an arguably top 10 player at a any particular position is worth a max contract. He'll be the same bad contract in 2 years that everyone now says about the CP3 and Love types hence my reason to try to win now without sacrificing too much although that means having to make moves in 2021 to have enough space for a max guy(unless you make another trade like Miami did for Butler). If a guy wants to come to Miami he can make it happen, even if there's not enough cap space available.

Roster improvement should more than help to offset any decline. We're not coasting, we just can't do anything that makes sense till 2021. Didn't the Lakers punt last season? Do you see a KD or Irving we could trade for this season because I don't. Chris Paul or Kevin Love aren't turning us into contenders.

You can't do anything that makes ssense till 2021, sounds a lot like coasting.

Butler's contract is a lot better than Chris Paul's and he will be younger when his contract is up. Butler is a better player than Love. If in 2021 we were to get Giannis and Herro and Nunn got much better, where would you rank us among teams?

[twix2500]

I would definitely give Winslow, Goran, Kelly for Jrue (find a way for them to take JJ or Waiters)

JJ and Winslow works for Jrue works salary wise. I'll throw in DJJ if needed. Then trade Dragic to regain depth.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

I agree with the general sentiment of your stance with regards to maximizing Butler's window. But, in prior posts you speak to potentially not being that appealing of a draw for free agents in 2021 due to Butler being 32. That's where you lose me because I fully expect a core including 24-year old Bam, 21-year old Herro and some combo of 1-2 of our other young guys with 32-year old Butler to be extremely enticing. I expect 24-year old Bam to be an absolute monster and for 21-year old Herro to be a high level scorer.

I'm with you about Bam he has a lot of room to grow but is a difference maker currently(in his raw state). Herro is very intriguing but you just never know if he'll be just a solid scorer or better, he has the chance to be a great scorer with his shooting but sometimes it just doesn't happen. Nunn(24) and D-Robinson(25) are older rookies who have already played a year in the D-League, they were incredible finds but should be near their potential, yes experience will help but they should be way closer to their potential than someone like Herro should be.

Another place you lose people is calling us a 7 seed now. What? Worst case we fall to 6. But, the reality is seeds 2 through 6 in the Eastern Conference are all roughly the same tier. It's not exactly an indictment.

I'm down to explore options to move around some pieces to beef up the team today. But, unless something special comes up, it's not worth it to give up too much of our young core nor is it worth it to sacrifice the 2021 plan (where our core youth will just be coming into their own!) for a mediocre addition that makes us marginally better today.

I could see 7th seed, especially next year if no moves are made and Miami loses players like Dragic, Leonard and possibly Olynyk(opt out). I don't really expect to see consistency from young players till their 3rd or 4th years which if that holds up true then Nunn, Robinson and Herro will just be young players with upside in 2021(although they could break through earlier). Orlando's going to make some type of move in hopes of becoming a better team. If they were able to acquire a main playmaker... say Jrue Holiday or even CP3 without giving up much, it would raise their ceiling greatly.

I basically consider Butler, Bam, Herro, Nunn, and Robinson part of "the core", the players I'd like to build around and don't think you could easily upgrade from their roles, I'd like to see Dragic retained, Leonard retained at a much lower number and then the rest of the players utilized to upgrade the roster. Winslow has some very good attributes but with Butler on board, only defensively does he really fit in with him, I'd rather find some other team who is willing to roll the dice on Justise as a main ball handler and acquire a more proven good player(but it has to be a somewhat clear upgrade from current Justise, which will be difficult to do).

It's just odd how much Miami gave up for a 30 year old Butler that they'd be willing to just not make any other big moves till 2021. Miami acquire Butler(30) and Leonard(expiring) for Richardson(26), Whiteside(expiring), and a1st rnd pick, I think what they gave up was way more useful to the team for building a team in 2021 then what they acquired if they stand pat.

[Bourne85]

Holiday is a no go for me. I mean the guy played with Anthony Freaking Davis and couldn’t get past the first round. The critics would all say AD needs a better running mate that Holiday. Holiday and Jimmy is treadmill city guys. Plus is old, plus will want a max deal cutting into 2021 plan.

Don’t rush things and just get any ol decent guy. We looking for titles and to be a force for the next 4-5 years we need to be patient and land the right guy, then sign Giannis (hopefully) or another super star in 2021.

[AirP.]

Butler's contract is a lot better than Chris Paul's and he will be younger when his contract is up. Butler is a better player than Love. If in 2021 we were to get Giannis and Herro and Nunn got much better, where would you rank us among teams?

Anyone who gets Giannis will be near the top of the league as a team. I just don't expect Giannis to leave a team that took a chance on him in the draft(he was drafted 15th), worked with him to develop him and actually built the team to maximize his talents.

The only MVP type talent I could see changing teams soon through FA or traded would be Embiid and that may still be a year or 2 away, I think they're building the team around Simmons moving towards a more modern and less injury prone offense.

[twix2500]

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I want Jrue but I would not gut the team for him.

[wade44]

There are way cheaper alternatives to Jrue Holiday. His contract would severely limit Heat's flexibility going into 2021 free agency plus Miami should be focused on getting rebounding/interior D help on the trade market first and foremost

[Bourne85]

I mean sure I’ll take Jrue, but they ain’t getting any of our main trade pieces.

Dragics expiring, And Gummy Bros is as far as I’d go. Winslow I suppose wouldn’t be the end of the world. But I would need assurance he ops out 2021.

[twix2500]

Going back to last summer, I said to build around Butler correctly is to build around him very similar to how Raptors were built around Leonard. Leonard had a trio core with Lowry and Siakum. Also having perfect complementary veteran role players, Green Gasol Ibaka etc. If base off my trade proposal Jones Jr, Winslow and Johnson for Holiday.

Raptors ---------- Heat
PG: Lower -- Holiday
SG: Green -- Robinson
SF: Leonard -- Butler
PF: Siakam -- Adebayo
Ce: Gasol -- Leonard

Raptors Key Bench Players: Ibaka, VanVleet
Heat Key Bench Players: Nunn, Herro, Olynk, Dragic