MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.3

[contract]

Spoiler:

A tale of 2 shooters.

Duncan Robinson is 27yrs old and just signed a 5yr, $90m deal with Miami ($18m per)

Doug McDermott is a 29yr old and just signed a 3yr, $42m deal with the Spurs ($14m per)

Both deals take them through to 32 years old.

Robinson: 13.1ppg, 3.5rpg, 1.8apg, 0.6spg, 0.3bpg, 1.1tpg, 31.4mpg on 43.9%FG, 40.8% 3FG (3.5 per) and 82.7% FT (0.9 per). 61.4% eFG.

McDermott: 13.6ppg, 3.3rpg, 1.3apg, 0.3spg, 0.1bpg, 0.8tpg, 24.5mpg on 53.2%FG, 38.8% 3FG (1.7 per) and 81.6% FT (1.2 per). 61.6% eFG.

Did we get finessed a little here? McBuckets looks like a really solid option side by side at $4m cheaper.

I suppose the closest comparison's to Duncan are also probably Bertans (signed for 5/80 last year at $16m per) and Joe Harris (4/75 at $18.75m per). Hoping that adding Lowry and perhaps some tweaks of our offensive system means we get Duncan some cleaner looks and he can go back to 2020 efficiency of 66.7% eFG.

A couple things that are missing here, one being McDurmott attempts 4.3 3PAs vs Duncan's 8.5 3PAs. Duncan is in his 3rd year and 26yo and McDurmott is in his 6th year and 29yo.

Duncan has remained a solid contributor in the playoffs where his production didn't reduce much even though his minutes where reduced where McDurmott usually falls out of the rotation when he enters the playoffs and doesn't produce near his normal level neither from a numbers or percentage standpoint.

I'd also say Duncan's off ball movement is on another level to McDurmott and I'd be willing to bet that Duncan is far more capable shooter on the move where McDurmott's shots are more predominantly catch and shoot set shots.

I would say that McDurmott is who he is at this stage and Duncan still has some potential for growth.

Ultimately their starting salaries are 13mil and 15mil so with $2mil being the difference between the two when the latter gave us 2 extra years on the contract I would say that it was perfectly reasonable contract.

Also be interesting to see how Robinson plays with a high level playmaking PG for the first time in his career this season.

How could Duncan's production possibly drop much in the postseason? He hardly does anything during the regular season!

[RexBoyWonder]

LOL

[RexBoyWonder]

Hopes for this season now lay on these 2 things:

1) Keep Dipo. If he comeback healthy - game changer.

2) Get Derozon. Sign and trade, use Iggy/Nunn/KZ - just get him. He's a legit scorer for a team with a huge need of buckets.

If not DeRozen - get a legit PF so PJ Tucker isn't our only answer next to Bam. Use Nunn/Iggy/KZ and Target a real PF.

M.Bagley is a gamble we need to take - he got the upside, size and scoring talent...we have to roll the dice and add a real power player who isn't 36YO.

[HEATVols865]

I love how because we made underwhelming deals, our new solution is to move one of our best chips in Herro for any cast off with a name we can get. Already shot in the foot, let's not bandage, go straight to amputate.

Because Herro is no longer needed


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[Seabass777]

Any chance we can do a sign n trade for Kendrick Nunn to Washington for Kyle Kuzma?

[Seabass777]

I love how because we made underwhelming deals, our new solution is to move one of our best chips in Herro for any cast off with a name we can get. Already shot in the foot, let's not bandage, go straight to amputate.

Because Herro is no longer needed


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Not true, we need more than just 1 dimensional scoring, especially off the bench right now

[Seabass777]

Hopes for this season now lay on these 2 things:

1) Keep Dipo. If he comeback healthy - game changer.

2) Get Derozon. Sign and trade, use Iggy/Nunn/KZ - just get him. He's a legit scorer for a team with a huge need of buckets.

If not DeRozen - get a legit PF so PJ Tucker isn't our only answer next to Bam. Use Nunn/Iggy/KZ and Target a real PF.

M.Bagley is a gamble we need to take - he got the upside, size and scoring talent...we have to roll the dice and add a real power player who isn't 36YO.

I read M.Bagley as M.Beasley at first

[twix2500]

Robinson's deal is absolutely dreadful.

Miami has to be happy with what it has done so far given its limited resources, but it is hard to get excited about any of these moves...

Nah, wrong

$18M per for the guy you’ve built your offence around is fine. Especially seeing as he’s easily top 4 in the nba as a specialised shooter.

He is much better than McDermott. He has performed in the playoffs and he deserves his cash. His first year is $15m too so the raises go up with the bigger cap. It’ll age very well.

And the offence with two non shooting stars absolutely requires a shooter that essential = 2 shooters. Those players are very rare

I am confounded by fans talking about "building our offense" around such a limited player as if that was a good thing. Our offense stinks, and enormous amounts of effort go into manufacturing 13 points a game for Duncan Robinson. It takes a team-wide conspiracy to get Duncan those 13 points. He was our 6th leading scorer. He has 26 career games > 20 points ... and 1 career game > 30. I've seen people claim that he has "gravity" that creates space for Jimmy and Bam. Defenses are not worried about this guy. Why would they be? What is he going to do, erupt for a 20 point game?

I don't know what you guys are watching. Not only is the focal point of our offense a non-scorer, but one who can't even create his own. I'm not sure that Duncan would average 10 points a game without all the effort we waste getting him looks. I guarantee that our offense could be just as inept with Doug McDermott or Max Strus or Rodney McGruder.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Duncan is a nice player in a small role on a minimum contract. At $18 million he's an instant regret.

Praising this deal or Robinsons role in our offense is nuts. Spo is nuts!

This statement right how concerns me. This would suggest you are not watching the games at all and just looking at boxscores when you get home. There was more defensive attention to Duncan than anyone on the roster. Even more so than Jimmy. We lost in the playoffs, because the Bucks decided to completely ignore Bam and to scheme to stop Duncan and Jimmy. What Duncan was doing was drawing his man and at times a second defender basically double teams, which is usually what stars do. Teams were willing to cheat off their man to help defend Duncan coming off screens. This is suppose to allow others to take advantage of the space and open shots created by the GRAVITY ie double team and defensive focus of Duncan. It is not his fault Bam refused to shoot wide open shots. That is why at times you would see Bam fake a pass to Duncan and then have a wide open lane straight to the basket for a dunk. That type of defensive attention is suppose to be what stars get paid for not role players. Duncan is getting paid his dues for being an excellent role player.

I happy with Duncan contract. This is right where I said a month ago, the range he should be at. Somewhere between 15 and 18 mill. Suddenly you guys were saying 20 mill then 25 mill and panicking. Can Duncan continue is high level play to his contract? Well that is something he has to live up to. He definitely play well beyond the money he was getting paid for the past two years. It is sad that many (not all) have not appreciated what Duncan and as well as Nunn done for this team and what they have contributed to the teams success.

[contract]

Spoiler:

A tale of 2 shooters.

Duncan Robinson is 27yrs old and just signed a 5yr, $90m deal with Miami ($18m per)

Doug McDermott is a 29yr old and just signed a 3yr, $42m deal with the Spurs ($14m per)

Both deals take them through to 32 years old.

Robinson: 13.1ppg, 3.5rpg, 1.8apg, 0.6spg, 0.3bpg, 1.1tpg, 31.4mpg on 43.9%FG, 40.8% 3FG (3.5 per) and 82.7% FT (0.9 per). 61.4% eFG.

McDermott: 13.6ppg, 3.3rpg, 1.3apg, 0.3spg, 0.1bpg, 0.8tpg, 24.5mpg on 53.2%FG, 38.8% 3FG (1.7 per) and 81.6% FT (1.2 per). 61.6% eFG.

Did we get finessed a little here? McBuckets looks like a really solid option side by side at $4m cheaper.

I suppose the closest comparison's to Duncan are also probably Bertans (signed for 5/80 last year at $16m per) and Joe Harris (4/75 at $18.75m per). Hoping that adding Lowry and perhaps some tweaks of our offensive system means we get Duncan some cleaner looks and he can go back to 2020 efficiency of 66.7% eFG.

Robinson's deal is absolutely dreadful.

Miami has to be happy with what it has done so far given its limited resources, but it is hard to get excited about any of these moves...

Robinson deal is escalating. The first 2 years are around 15 mil and it escalates after that. After that he is a very attractive contract in a trade. This was a very good deal. Win now and then a trade asset after. Just look at the situation we are in now. We have no contracts to send out in order to bring Derozan here right now. These kind of contracts are very valuable in the future.

These contracts are very valuable, huh? Are we looking to trade for any of them? It's amazing what fans will convince themselves of. How valuable was TJ's contract? How valuable was Iggy's contract? All these contracts do is eat up you cap space and limit your flexibility. Duncan at $18 million might help you swing a trade for a better player ... if he was on a 1 year deal. Maybe. On a 5 year deal or a 4 year deal or a 3 year deal, he's just an albatross.

[dean456]

Spoiler:

Strus, Vincent and Deadmon - 3 good gets for the minimum :

Strus - I think he's a legit rotation wing. Has size and toughness, not a Duncan level shooter but more versatile.

Vincent - We love to hate - but he's a super solid defender, heady, he just needs to find consistency with his 3's.

Dedmon - He was a must get. We desperately needed his size back, his rebounding and he knows how to play his role.

=========

I'm probably the biggest PJ Tucker hater here. Good tough guy, but man..not what I want in a player at all.

I Just really hate his combination of age, lack of size, and absolute lack of scoring. I really don't get how he's a good signing for anything more then minimum. I'm praying KZ/Yurtseven/traded PF can steal a lot of his minutes.

I don't think people realize the reality - he's a 36YO 6"5 dude who averages less then 5 PPG PER 36 (!!!!!!) and 5 boards per 36.

Even if he was the best defender in the NVA (which he's far from being) - that's just....wow.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I not going to sit here and say Tucker is stat stuffer because he's not. But he is absolutely the type of role player teams need to win at the highest level. He will do a ton of the stuff that doesn't show up in the boxscore but impacts winning.

He's 36yo but he certainly didn't play like a 36yo in Milwaukee's playoff run. He may be 6'5 but has a 6'11.5 wingspan and he's a lot stronger than most guys 6'8-6'9.

I think he screams Heat culture guy and gives us the grit, toughness and intangibles we lost when Crowder left. Having him guard up on dudes with Jimmy, Bam and Lowry pestering off ball will be a nightmare for opposing players. Also if by some miracle Oladipo gets healthy come playoff time (should we keep him) and you add him to that, teams not gonna want to see us.

[zgope1]

Robinson's deal is absolutely dreadful.

Miami has to be happy with what it has done so far given its limited resources, but it is hard to get excited about any of these moves...

Nah, wrong

$18M per for the guy you’ve built your offence around is fine. Especially seeing as he’s easily top 4 in the nba as a specialised shooter.

He is much better than McDermott. He has performed in the playoffs and he deserves his cash. His first year is $15m too so the raises go up with the bigger cap. It’ll age very well.

And the offence with two non shooting stars absolutely requires a shooter that essential = 2 shooters. Those players are very rare

I am confounded by fans talking about "building our offense" around such a limited player as if that was a good thing. Our offense stinks, and enormous amounts of effort go into manufacturing 13 points a game for Duncan Robinson. It takes a team-wide conspiracy to get Duncan those 13 points. He was our 6th leading scorer. He has 26 career games > 20 points ... and 1 career game > 30. I've seen people claim that he has "gravity" that creates space for Jimmy and Bam. Defenses are not worried about this guy. Why would they be? What is he going to do, erupt for a 20 point game?

I don't know what you guys are watching. Not only is the focal point of our offense a non-scorer, but one who can't even create his own. I'm not sure that Duncan would average 10 points a game without all the effort we waste getting him looks. I guarantee that our offense could be just as inept with Doug McDermott or Max Strus or Rodney McGruder.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Duncan is a nice player in a small role on a minimum contract. At $18 million he's an instant regret.

Praising this deal or Robinsons role in our offense is nuts. Spo is nuts!

Yeh we get it you don’t know about spacing and gravity. Listing his points scored just outlines the lack of depth with which you view the game

In 2021 you can’t build a team around two non shooters unless you have absolutely elite shooters around them. Shooting is a premium and we can’t afford to lose it.

[contract]

Strus, Vincent and Deadmon - 3 good gets for the minimum :

Strus - I think he's a legit rotation wing. Has size and toughness, not a Duncan level shooter but more versatile.

Vincent - We love to hate - but he's a super solid defender, heady, he just needs to find consistency with his 3's.

Dedmon - He was a must get. We desperately needed his size back, his rebounding and he knows how to play his role.

=========

I'm probably the biggest PJ Tucker hater here. Good tough guy, but man..not what I want in a player at all.

I Just really hate his combination of age, lack of size, and absolute lack of scoring. I really don't get how he's a good signing for anything more then minimum. I'm praying KZ/Yurtseven/traded PF can steal a lot of his minutes.

I don't think people realize the reality - he's a 36YO 6"5 dude who averages less then 5 PPG PER 36 (!!!!!!) and 5 boards per 36.

Even if he was the best defender in the NVA (which he's far from being) - that's just....wow.

Dedmon has value. Strus and Vincent are randos. They could literally be any two G-League guys.

And as far as Tucker goes, he's fine if you want a 6'5 PF who doesn't shoot that well. But he's 36 years old! For whatever reason Pat has decided that age is just a number, and that old legs aren't going to wear out chasing the ball around all season long in a long ass NBA season.

[Seabass777]

Lowry/Vincent/X
Duncan/Herro/Strus
Butler/Gay/KZ
Kuzma/Tucker/Haslem
BAM/Dedmond/X

[twix2500]

I'm happy with the addition but not satisfied. The DeRozan move needs to happen to become a strong contender. If they can do that, the Heat can put a crunch time lineup that will be very difficult for any team to marchup with. It would be similar to how the Warriors would go small with Iggy and Livingston before the Durant era.

Can't afford to lose Nunn right now. They need to resign him or trade him. Personally I want to resign him, I think Nunn and Herro tandem is huge off the bench. The problem is I do not trust Okpala, Strus or Vincent getting legit minutes. At least one of them needs to step up and be a legit contributor to a title contending team.

However hopefully we can use Nunn in a trade to get a legit player like Derozan so the Heat will not have to depend on both Strus and Okpala just one of them. Vincent can be a hold over until Oladipo gets healthy.



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[RexBoyWonder]

Any chance we can do a sign n trade for Kendrick Nunn to Washington for Kyle Kuzma?

I kinda hate Kuzma due to hair, LA ties and general suckiness - but For Nunn I might do it if we can't get someone better.

At least it Balance chit out.

[dean456]

Spoiler:

A tale of 2 shooters.

Duncan Robinson is 27yrs old and just signed a 5yr, $90m deal with Miami ($18m per)

Doug McDermott is a 29yr old and just signed a 3yr, $42m deal with the Spurs ($14m per)

Both deals take them through to 32 years old.

Robinson: 13.1ppg, 3.5rpg, 1.8apg, 0.6spg, 0.3bpg, 1.1tpg, 31.4mpg on 43.9%FG, 40.8% 3FG (3.5 per) and 82.7% FT (0.9 per). 61.4% eFG.

McDermott: 13.6ppg, 3.3rpg, 1.3apg, 0.3spg, 0.1bpg, 0.8tpg, 24.5mpg on 53.2%FG, 38.8% 3FG (1.7 per) and 81.6% FT (1.2 per). 61.6% eFG.

Did we get finessed a little here? McBuckets looks like a really solid option side by side at $4m cheaper.

I suppose the closest comparison's to Duncan are also probably Bertans (signed for 5/80 last year at $16m per) and Joe Harris (4/75 at $18.75m per). Hoping that adding Lowry and perhaps some tweaks of our offensive system means we get Duncan some cleaner looks and he can go back to 2020 efficiency of 66.7% eFG.

A couple things that are missing here, one being McDurmott attempts 4.3 3PAs vs Duncan's 8.5 3PAs. Duncan is in his 3rd year and 26yo and McDurmott is in his 6th year and 29yo.

Duncan has remained a solid contributor in the playoffs where his production didn't reduce much even though his minutes where reduced where McDurmott usually falls out of the rotation when he enters the playoffs and doesn't produce near his normal level neither from a numbers or percentage standpoint.

I'd also say Duncan's off ball movement is on another level to McDurmott and I'd be willing to bet that Duncan is far more capable shooter on the move where McDurmott's shots are more predominantly catch and shoot set shots.

I would say that McDurmott is who he is at this stage and Duncan still has some potential for growth.

Ultimately their starting salaries are 13mil and 15mil so with $2mil being the difference between the two when the latter gave us 2 extra years on the contract I would say that it was perfectly reasonable contract.

Also be interesting to see how Robinson plays with a high level playmaking PG for the first time in his career this season.

How could Duncan's production possibly drop much in the postseason? He hardly does anything during the regular season!

I'm comparing him to Doug McDermott... Not every player needs to be an all star scoring 30 to contribute to a teams success.

Honestly have you ever liked a move the Heat has made or posted positively about any take/topic in this forum? Because I struggle to think of any.

[AirP.]

Strus, Vincent and Deadmon - 3 good gets for the minimum :

Strus - I think he's a legit rotation wing. Has size and toughness, not a Duncan level shooter but more versatile.

Vincent - We love to hate - but he's a super solid defender, heady, he just needs to find consistency with his 3's.

Dedmon - He was a must get. We desperately needed his size back, his rebounding and he knows how to play his role.

=========

I'm probably the biggest PJ Tucker hater here. Good tough guy, but man..not what I want in a player at all.

I Just really hate his combination of age, lack of size, and absolute lack of scoring. I really don't get how he's a good signing for anything more then minimum. I'm praying KZ/Yurtseven/traded PF can steal a lot of his minutes.

I don't think people realize the reality - he's a 36YO 6"5 dude who averages less then 5 PPG PER 36 (!!!!!!) and 5 boards per 36.

Even if he was the best defender in the NVA (which he's far from being) - that's just....wow.

Dedmon has value. Strus and Vincent are randos. They could literally be any two G-League guys.

And as far as Tucker goes, he's fine if you want a 6'5 PF who doesn't shoot that well. But he's 36 years old! For whatever reason Pat has decided that age is just a number, and that old legs aren't going to wear out chasing the ball around all season long in a long ass NBA season.

Miami needs a couple of low priced players to play over their contracts, I'm expecting Strus to be one of those guys and maybe to the extend that Miami could think about making a move with higher priced player. I'm really surprised people don't see potential in a guy who has a quick 3pt release and doesn't seem to be effected by missing a shot.

[miamiballer]

Pretty sure we can only add minimum players for now on as we have a few roster sports left to fill and about 6-7 mil away from luxury tax and I doubt we’ll pay the luxury tax to resign nunn so my guess is he’s gone unless he takes qo

Free agents id like for min:

Danny green
Avery Bradley
James Johnson


I have to say, I think we overpaid Tucker, I like him but not for 7.5 mil and not to be a full time starter

Portis is an idiot for turning down more money from us to stay in mil, he would have been a better fit I think

[twix2500]

Pretty sure we can only add minimum players for now on as we have a few roster sports left to fill and about 6-7 mil away from luxury tax and I doubt we’ll pay the luxury tax to resign nunn so my guess is he’s gone unless he takes qo

Free agents id like for min:

Danny green
Avery Bradley
James Johnson


I have to say, I think we overpaid Tucker, I like him but not for 7.5 mil and not to be a full time starter

Portis is an idiot for turning down more money from us to stay in mil, he would have been a better fit I think

I do not think the Heat are planning on starting Tucker. But 7.5 for one year is not a lot of money, that is average backup money.

[Wiltside]

Pretty sure we can only add minimum players for now on as we have a few roster sports left to fill and about 6-7 mil away from luxury tax and I doubt we’ll pay the luxury tax to resign nunn so my guess is he’s gone unless he takes qo

Free agents id like for min:

Danny green
Avery Bradley
James Johnson


I have to say, I think we overpaid Tucker, I like him but not for 7.5 mil and not to be a full time starter

Portis is an idiot for turning down more money from us to stay in mil, he would have been a better fit I think

Keep in mind that this was day 1 of FA. There’s still water to go under the bridge yet.

For all we know, Tucker could be the backup 4 and we have another option in mind to split time with him.