2019 Heat Offseason thread 4.0- Yimmy and the Kids!

[gom]

Yes, but, Dragic & Meyers Leonard are expiring and next season Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters expire. You could have all that money committed to Chris Paul or be able to pick another player. Do you have so much faith in Chris Paul?

[batterybro42]

You don't get more points for shooting unguarded 3s vs shooting guarded 3s. You're basically arguing that Winslow isn't a 3-point threat because he doesn't attempt 7 3s a game. Also, you're wrong about a defender not having to worry about Winslow shooting 3s because he only shoots open 3s well. If Winslow's shooting 45% on open 3s, defenders will be MORE inclined to worry about him being open not less.

Think about this, Player A and B attempt 5 3s per 36 minutes. Player A shoots 36% from 3 but 34% on guarded 3s. Player B shoots 38% from 3 but 32% on guarded 3s. Who's the better 3-point shooter? Obviously player B.

Let me think about that.
Player A 36% open 34% guarded
Player B 38% open 32% guarded

Well, if both these players get 1000 shots over a season but the offense only creates 200 open looks for them.
Player A 72 points from open looks, 272 points guarded, total: 344 points
Player B 76 points from open looks, 256 points guarded, total: 332 points

You can say player B is the better 3pt shooter but player A is better for this particular offense.

Players take more open 3s than contested 3s. Anyways, I don't think you understand how this works but I don't blame you as this is a difficult concept to understand. You think that contested 3s are "worth more" because of difficulty when the best shots are often the easiest shots. A made 3-point shot is 3 points. Difficulty doesn't change that. Also, it's made open shots that draw defenders. Contested shots are bad and open shots are good, that's something you should understand.

Winslow should be an is regarded now as a good shooter, he can space the floor and is a plus shooter in open situations. That’s a floor spacer, what he hits in contested situations doesn’t matter, those are bad shots. Don’t think anybody is trying to build an offense around contested looks from deep lol

Contest Winslow at the 3pt line and he has the ability to blow by you

His deficiency currently is his midrange game which is horrific. He can’t put the ball on the floor and take a one dribble pull up from inside the line. I hope for his sake that’s a big focus of his this offseason.

He can hit and open 3 he can drive, if he can do the in between at a respectable level he becomes a dangerous scorer and by virtue of that a much better assist man as his closeout attack will garner a lot more defensive attention

[Bishop45]

If Justise could pumpfake like this... He'd need to believe in his own shot before getting anyone to buy into him faking a pull-up tho

Watch on YouTube

[JLop]

Yes, but, Dragic & Meyers Leonard are expiring and next season Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters expire. You could have all that money committed to Chris Paul or be able to pick another player. Do you have so much faith in Chris Paul?

What are the betting odds in Las Vegas that Chris Paul suffers a serious injury in a period of two years?

Spoiler:

[Umbooki]

Bosh was really good at basketball. Man, blood clots are the worst.

[jake_swivel]

You don't get more points for shooting unguarded 3s vs shooting guarded 3s. You're basically arguing that Winslow isn't a 3-point threat because he doesn't attempt 7 3s a game. Also, you're wrong about a defender not having to worry about Winslow shooting 3s because he only shoots open 3s well. If Winslow's shooting 45% on open 3s, defenders will be MORE inclined to worry about him being open not less.

Think about this, Player A and B attempt 5 3s per 36 minutes. Player A shoots 36% from 3 but 34% on guarded 3s. Player B shoots 38% from 3 but 32% on guarded 3s. Who's the better 3-point shooter? Obviously player B.

But the point is a good defensive team has more options to cheat when a player needs space to shoot. That is nothing new.

That doesn't make any sense. I'm making the argument that unguarded shooting vs guarded shooting is almost irrelevant if everything else is the same. If I'm shooting 45% unguarded from 3, why would you leave me open? Wouldn't you be more likely to defend a great open shooter rather than a great contested shooter?

It’s not irrelevant when you consider spacing. If he has to be guarded, the lane is open for jimmy and bam.

[batterybro42]

Yes, but, Dragic & Meyers Leonard are expiring and next season Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters expire. You could have all that money committed to Chris Paul or be able to pick another player. Do you have so much faith in Chris Paul?

I do because stars don’t really make it to free agency anymore, they are too valuable. When a team gets the notion that the player is leaving they move him. Should you get to free agency the value is so high they are willing to facilitate and SNT which is productive to them and to the player as well. Having free and open cap space isn’t what it used to be. The league has adjusted and at some point so will the fans. If you don’t want CP3 it should be because you think we can acquire two stars and do so quickly. If your plan is 2021 well then you just burned 2 years of Jimmy and this current window. I think CP3 gives us an ability to compete for the East crown this year, his contract lines up with the Jimmy timeline, and we can still add a third star while retaining at least 2 of our 3 young assets.

It’s a good move and if you’re hung up on his cap figure you are not looking at our situation objectively.

I’d like to get a young star like Beal who can be apart of our next window as well as Bam and Herro. Come back in 2022 and retool this thing and keep it moving. By then who knows what Bam demands maybe he’s 1 of 3 of the Star Core by then hopefully Herro is too, and then you’re talking about something special.

[AirP.]

Thought we were talking about 3pt shooting?

There's a lot of inefficient players that contribute to good teams, don't see why we should throw out the baby with the bathwater

Wait what? The whole point of 3pt shooting is creating more points per possession, being more efficient in scoring which TS% basically shows, if Waiters stuck to just 3s and high % 2s he'd be a better option, but he can't do that, he has to try to create. Those who are inefficient normally bring another strength to the table like rebounding, defense, playmaking, Waiters doesn't do this.
Let's look at Houston's(since they shoot high volume) non stars TS% 3pt shooters.
House .642
Ennis .622
Green .555
Gordon .549
Tucker .547

Waiters, a career high of .530 last season, get him to just be a spot up shooter and he'd be good spacer, the problem is he just can't stop there. You can reference his ortg to see how he affects the team, he had a 102 ORTG last year and he's a career 98 ORTG player while having a career 109 drtg, just not good.

So he's not a good spacer, because he's not a good scorer? Compelling, should have thought of that.

It's why I look at their ortg to see their overall effect on the offense, a career 98 ortg is bad and to me is an indication he's not helping the team all that much.

[Kobewade11]

Yes, but, Dragic & Meyers Leonard are expiring and next season Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters expire. You could have all that money committed to Chris Paul or be able to pick another player. Do you have so much faith in Chris Paul?

I do because stars don’t really make it to free agency anymore, they are too valuable. When a team gets the notion that the player is leaving they move him. Should you get to free agency the value is so high they are willing to facilitate and SNT which is productive to them and to the player as well. Having free and open cap space isn’t what it used to be. The league has adjusted and at some point so will the fans. If you don’t want CP3 it should be because you think we can acquire two stars and do so quickly. If your plan is 2021 well then you just burned 2 years of Jimmy and this current window. I think CP3 gives us an ability to compete for the East crown this year, his contract lines up with the Jimmy timeline, and we can still add a third star while retaining at least 2 of our 3 young assets.

It’s a good move and if you’re hung up on his cap figure you are not looking at our situation objectively.

I’d like to get a young star like Beal who can be apart of our next window as well as Bam and Herro. Come back in 2022 and retool this thing and keep it moving. By then who knows what Bam demands maybe he’s 1 of 3 of the Star Core by then hopefully Herro is too, and then you’re talking about something special.

We just saw a free agency with Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard. and hold up, when did we project Bam and Herro to be stars and why?

[batterybro42]

Ideally I’d like to add CP3 and wait until the deadline before looking at another move. Let’s see if Winslow can be a Star give him a half of season to showcase that.

If he peaks at a 3 and D wing then move him and picks for a star. That’s what I’d like to see from the Heat unless they can get a 3rd star for 4ish picks

[gom]

Ideally I’d like to add CP3 and wait until the deadline before looking at another move. Let’s see if Winslow can be a Star give him a half of season to showcase that.

If he peaks at a 3 and D wing then move him and picks for a star. That’s what I’d like to see from the Heat unless they can get a 3rd star for 4ish picks

Once you trade for Chris Paul your future moves will be subtraction. You cannot move his contract without picks and it will only get worse. You started this by saying you would trade for him without picks. You would need those picks to move him though if he cannot bring the team to the ecf.

[Shewasfly]

I think OKC will hold on to Chris Paul until december when more of the Lakers players become eligible for trade. maybe we can facilitate a deal to get him to the Lakers like I'm sure he and LeBum wants.
In the meantime I dont really think there are any feasible moves to make us better.

[batterybro42]

Yes, but, Dragic & Meyers Leonard are expiring and next season Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters expire. You could have all that money committed to Chris Paul or be able to pick another player. Do you have so much faith in Chris Paul?

I do because stars don’t really make it to free agency anymore, they are too valuable. When a team gets the notion that the player is leaving they move him. Should you get to free agency the value is so high they are willing to facilitate and SNT which is productive to them and to the player as well. Having free and open cap space isn’t what it used to be. The league has adjusted and at some point so will the fans. If you don’t want CP3 it should be because you think we can acquire two stars and do so quickly. If your plan is 2021 well then you just burned 2 years of Jimmy and this current window. I think CP3 gives us an ability to compete for the East crown this year, his contract lines up with the Jimmy timeline, and we can still add a third star while retaining at least 2 of our 3 young assets.

It’s a good move and if you’re hung up on his cap figure you are not looking at our situation objectively.

I’d like to get a young star like Beal who can be apart of our next window as well as Bam and Herro. Come back in 2022 and retool this thing and keep it moving. By then who knows what Bam demands maybe he’s 1 of 3 of the Star Core by then hopefully Herro is too, and then you’re talking about something special.

We just saw a free agency with Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard. and hold up, when did we project Bam and Herro to be stars and why?

KD was moved in a SNT by the way just want to point that out, Celtics held on hope till the last minute that they could keep Kyrie their mistake.

And yes I project Bam and Herro to have chances at being stars

Bam because with a competent floor general like Paul can stand in the paint and average 20 and 10+ off east opportunities. Because he’s a vertical specimen in the lob game and has the ability to become a shooter and a face up guy

Herro because he’s flashed star potential to anybody who’s seen him play. NBA stars and personalities are beside themselves watching him play in summer league. He passes the eye test as a real player in this league. So yeah I give him a chance to be a star I don’t think that’s out there to say. A lot of people more knowledgeable about basketball than all of us see it. The kid is special

So yes I’d say both of them have the potential to be max players towards the end of their contracts which to me means you are trying to get one guy who’s in his mid 20s now to pair with them for life after Jimmy and get another star who’s more fit for this window like you know CP3

But hey our fans want to bitch about the possibility of getting one of the best PG the game has ever seen at a position that ages the most graceful out of any player archatype in the league

[jpake1]

I wouldn't trade for CP3 if it meant we get our 1sts back. Does CP3, minus the "fillers" we'd send out, really make us a challenger in the sense that the LA teams and others are at? IMO, definitely not. Top 4 in east though. Does CP3 warrant missing out on a stacked 21' FA class? Nah. Let Jimmy lead this group with hopeful improvement from the young guys.

[fishfuego.]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254850/Thunder-Seeking-Multiple-Young-Assets-From-Heat-For-Russell-Westbrook

Allegedly the asking price was Dragic, Winslow and Herro. If Herro doesnt blow up we will be questioning that move for a while.

I have no idea what the asking price is for Chris Paul, but the upside to that move is how he will make Bam and Herro better with easier shots. Ideally he should help Winslow also. Out of all the players on the market and considering our price range, i guess Paul might not be a bad idea. Sure he might not be healthy in the playoff but will help us get to the playoffs and make our role players better.

It would be a mistake for Miami to trade assets with OKC as a lateral movement. IMO is not straight up better than players such as Dragic, Waiters and such. At this point he is just a name with a huge contract and not much more.

I'm looking at getting Paul for Leonard, Johnson and Waiters. It's a perfect salary match and it satisfies both teams needs. Allows the Heat to now trade Dragic for some role players that fit.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

Dragic fits honestly. I don’t know where this notion that Dragic doesn’t fit comes from.

[batterybro42]

Ideally I’d like to add CP3 and wait until the deadline before looking at another move. Let’s see if Winslow can be a Star give him a half of season to showcase that.

If he peaks at a 3 and D wing then move him and picks for a star. That’s what I’d like to see from the Heat unless they can get a 3rd star for 4ish picks

Once you trade for Chris Paul your future moves will be subtraction. You cannot move his contract without picks and it will only get worse. You started this by saying you would trade for him without picks. You would need those picks to move him though if he cannot bring the team to the ecf.

Don’t care to move him he’d be part of the Jimmy window which would be

Jimmy, CP3 and Winslow or another star, if he stays for 3 then whatever

The next window would be Winslow or another star, Bam or Herro, and another guy

That’s what I’m looking at

Stacking success and planning for the long game

CP3 fits our timeline which is why he’s an option

Doesn’t hurt that he’s a great player that’s currently extremely under appreciated either

[HeatIn5]

Wow, honestly didn't read first time I skimmed this post.

Congratz JFM

Waiters, eh? I’m drunk and have the hottest waitress ever so feeling good. You got one shot. Go.

Waiters can be a solid third option when not fat, shooting is really good right now, if he can gain some of his explosiveness he can be a highly effective player. That’s why Pat likes Waiters, there are some really good qualities of his game. He has the tools to be a real scorer he’s just only ever put it together for one stretch during 2017

You lost me with "when not fat"

[Flash4thewin]

I think OKC will hold on to Chris Paul until december when more of the Lakers players become eligible for trade. maybe we can facilitate a deal to get him to the Lakers like I'm sure he and LeBum wants.
In the meantime I dont really think there are any feasible moves to make us better.

The Lakers signed players with 2 year deal to be a player in 2021. Lebron would veto a Paul trade and only take Paul if he is bought out. Remember Lebron didnt trade for Melo either.

[AirP.]

You don't get more points for shooting unguarded 3s vs shooting guarded 3s. You're basically arguing that Winslow isn't a 3-point threat because he doesn't attempt 7 3s a game. Also, you're wrong about a defender not having to worry about Winslow shooting 3s because he only shoots open 3s well. If Winslow's shooting 45% on open 3s, defenders will be MORE inclined to worry about him being open not less.

Think about this, Player A and B attempt 5 3s per 36 minutes. Player A shoots 36% from 3 but 34% on guarded 3s. Player B shoots 38% from 3 but 32% on guarded 3s. Who's the better 3-point shooter? Obviously player B.

Let me think about that.
Player A 36% open 34% guarded
Player B 38% open 32% guarded

Well, if both these players get 1000 shots over a season but the offense only creates 200 open looks for them.
Player A 72 points from open looks, 272 points guarded, total: 344 points
Player B 76 points from open looks, 256 points guarded, total: 332 points

You can say player B is the better 3pt shooter but player A is better for this particular offense.

Players take more open 3s than contested 3s. Anyways, I don't think you understand how this works but I don't blame you as this is a difficult concept to understand. You think that contested 3s are "worth more" because of difficulty when the best shots are often the easiest shots. A made 3-point shot is 3 points. Difficulty doesn't change that. Also, it's made open shots that draw defenders. Contested shots are bad and open shots are good, that's something you should understand.

Contested/covered 3s aren't worth more points but being able to make contested/covered 3 can help make your team's offense more dynamic, especially as the shot clock wears down. Not only that, a guy who can't make contested/covered 3s can have weaker defenders put on them. If your offense generates a ton of open shots, wonderful, that just doesn't seem to happen that much when you play better defensive teams and that's usually what you see past the 1st round of the playoffs.

[Myam333]

I'm bored