Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[AirP.]

Quick question, if Miami had done basically nearly the same deal as LA did, give up a swap for a 1st, give up a 1st in a few years, a 2nd, Lowry as your expiring and say C.Martin, would Miami be a much better team currently and possibly for the next few years if they decided to resign Harden?

Harden, Richardson, Butler, Love, Bam
with a bench of
Scoring 6th man Herro, PJ Tucker, Bryant, Jaquez Jr, Jovic, Robinson, DRU

I think that team is dramatically better and having a high volume scorer in the starting lineup and coming off the bench.

Don't like that Harden disappears in the playoffs from time to time, you got Butler and even Herro willing to take big shots, you just need that efficient offense for the first 3 1/2 quarters that Harden can help with.

The only issue is the owner wanting to be out of the tax after this year which probably means Lowry isn't being moved for much salary past this year and with that, might mean the only real option they may have it using Herro to upgrade the scoring position for a more win ready player for the playoffs.

I take Herro over Hardin at his age and salary. But, if the team could have gotten Harden for Lowry, role players and a 1st swap, sure. That would be good depth.

A Herro/Harden back court wouldn't stop anyone but would be great to watch.

I don't know how they make that work more than one year in the tax, I suspect the owner wants Miami under the tax next year so who knows.

[contract]

Not much better. But Lowry was a starter in Toronto. He was a starter in year 1 with the Heat and was a starter for most of the games he played last year.

I don’t see how you can use that as an argument against his contract. They cannot tell the future and think “we can’t sign him cause in a year and a half he won’t start some games”.

We could play that same game now. Dame most certainly won’t be worth $60M in his last year. Beal might not be worth his salary right now. Maybe Jimmy has fallen off the cliff already so not giving up assets this summer for “his” window was the right decision since it may already be closed. So turns out this was a summer of all the right moves being made. Just come back in 3 years and we’ll see.

Looking at it objectively, signing Lowry for three years they were probably expecting to get 2 out of him. In those two the team made it to within 1 shot of two Finals. That’s pretty good and would be hard to replicate going forward no matter moves are made.

Every year further a player goes into his 30s increases the chances that he will fall off hard and never recover again. Lowry was already 5 years in. This didn't require a crystal ball. Every season at least once a year I post a list of the top scorers in their mid to upper 30s, and it's always ugly. Performance, endurance, and availability, all start going to hell ... and a players quickness and explosiveness go too.

The salary wasn't even the issue, it was the years. A 3 year commitment to a 35 year old is too much.

I don't disagree, I didn't want CP3 for that reason either. But that is what the cost is. In a perfect world the Heat are giving 1 year contracts to everyone. Then resigning if they are worth bringing back. Realistically no one is signing that contract. They are just going somewhere else to get paid like PJ Tucker did. So it's either 3 years of Lowry knowing year 3 will probably be crap or no Lowry at all. If no Lowry who is filling that role? If the answer that summer was Gabe Vincnet the fans would be mad. Just like they are now becuase the answer is Dru Smith and last year because the answer to PJ leaving was Martin.

I don't think the market for a 35 year old Lowry was as active as you think it was. You make him a 1 + 1 offer, and if he can get more elsewhere, then no hard feelings and you move on. It's not like you're missing out on prime Lowry. And you can't let public sentiment GM the team. If you're going to do that, then what the heck are we paying Pat for? But that's not really why Pat gave Lowry that deal. The real reason is that Pat figured that he'd have a $30 million contract laying around to function as salary filler for a trade for a star player. His real gamble was on year 2 when the contract was nearly unmovable.

[carnageta]

Herro now averaging 26.2ppg on 44/43/88 shooting splits

[Wiltside]

Herro now averaging 26.2ppg on 44/43/88 shooting splits

You can’t ask for much more from Tyler. He’s never going to be a plus defender, but that’s some serious production. Would love to see him get the FG% higher but mid 40’s should be expected for a jump shooter.

[HEATVols865]

We suck…Spo sucks not playing Jovic when Love is hurt.

[carnageta]

Herro now averaging 26.2ppg on 44/43/88 shooting splits

You can’t ask for much more from Tyler. He’s never going to be a plus defender, but that’s some serious production. Would love to see him get the FG% higher but mid 40’s should be expected for a jump shooter.

Agreed. His defense does look much better this season than the previous years. If he can keep this level of effort up and finish the season averaging 25ppg on 45/40/90 splits, I'd be ecstatic. Those are some SERIOUs gains.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

You know better Bam lmao, we aren’t doing anything at the deadline regardless

[Daffy]

Read on Twitter

You know better Bam lmao, we aren’t doing anything at the deadline regardless

Where's that guy that kept posting about keeping all our assets and saying we'd be fine with our young guys who are showing potential.

[AirP.]

This is perfect for this season! Great timing for the tweet!

Read on Twitter

[Wiltside]

Even if the wheels fall off this season, I still couldn’t see us trading Jimmy. More likely he will have an “injury” that shuts him down for the year and we play the kids a ton.

Outside of 2008, we don’t tank. I’d expect the team to fight it out and try to win games, but we just might not be very good. If this ain’t our year, I hope we invest it wisely in building up the younger talent we do have to see some green shoots coming through.

[Jfh20]

Last place in the east with 1-3 negative record… heat fans : but we made the finals lmao

[contract]

Just to show everyone how silly it is to jump to conclusions after a handful of games, yesterday Max Strus was getting praise and looking like a steal, and after tonight's game he's ...

shooting 35% FG & 35% 3pt for the season

... while leading the Cavs in minutes played for some reason.

Strus is now down to 34.8% FG & 31.1% 3pt

Vincent is shooting 39.3% FG & 07.1% 3pt

By those standards Duncan is doing fine.

[contract]

Even if the wheels fall off this season, I still couldn’t see us trading Jimmy. More likely he will have an “injury” that shuts him down for the year and we play the kids a ton.

Outside of 2008, we don’t tank. I’d expect the team to fight it out and try to win games, but we just might not be very good. If this ain’t our year, I hope we invest it wisely in building up the younger talent we do have to see some green shoots coming through.

Next year Jimmy will be 35. If he's not cooked now, he will almost surely be cooked then. Next year is almost certainly a rebuilding year. If last season wasn't our last chance with Jimmy, this year is. We either try to win now or we don't really care about winning.

A future team led by Bam and Herro isn't winning a damn thing.

I don't know why fans don't understand just how heavily we rely on Jimmy to give us a chance to win it all. Dame is a very good player, but if you brought him in and lost Butler, that team is not in the Finals. Pat needs to quit sitting on our assets and make moves to improve the talent around Jimmy and Bam or it will be years before we're a serious threat again.

[Hallstar]

Even if the wheels fall off this season, I still couldn’t see us trading Jimmy. More likely he will have an “injury” that shuts him down for the year and we play the kids a ton.

Outside of 2008, we don’t tank. I’d expect the team to fight it out and try to win games, but we just might not be very good. If this ain’t our year, I hope we invest it wisely in building up the younger talent we do have to see some green shoots coming through.

Next year Jimmy will be 35. If he's not cooked now, he will almost surely be cooked then. Next year is almost certainly a rebuilding year. If last season wasn't our last chance with Jimmy, this year is. We either try to win now or we don't really care about winning.

A future team led by Bam and Herro isn't winning a damn thing.

I don't know why fans don't understand just how heavily we rely on Jimmy to give us a chance to win it all. Dame is a very good player, but if you brought him in and lost Butler, that team is not in the Finals. Pat needs to quit sitting on our assets and make moves to improve the talent around Jimmy and Bam or it will be years before we're a serious threat again.

Honestly if it's gonna be a one year run that doesn't end in a chip and we have no assets left, then what's the point?

[contract]

Even if the wheels fall off this season, I still couldn’t see us trading Jimmy. More likely he will have an “injury” that shuts him down for the year and we play the kids a ton.

Outside of 2008, we don’t tank. I’d expect the team to fight it out and try to win games, but we just might not be very good. If this ain’t our year, I hope we invest it wisely in building up the younger talent we do have to see some green shoots coming through.

Next year Jimmy will be 35. If he's not cooked now, he will almost surely be cooked then. Next year is almost certainly a rebuilding year. If last season wasn't our last chance with Jimmy, this year is. We either try to win now or we don't really care about winning.

A future team led by Bam and Herro isn't winning a damn thing.

I don't know why fans don't understand just how heavily we rely on Jimmy to give us a chance to win it all. Dame is a very good player, but if you brought him in and lost Butler, that team is not in the Finals. Pat needs to quit sitting on our assets and make moves to improve the talent around Jimmy and Bam or it will be years before we're a serious threat again.

Honestly if it's gonna be a one year run that doesn't end in a chip and we have no assets left, then what's the point?

The point is to give yourself a chance. That's all a team can ever do. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone. OKC had Durant, and Westbrook, and Harden, and Ibaka ... and even Jeff Green. All of them under 25, and four of them 21 or 22 years old. They didn't win ****, and only came close once. They wasted Durant, and it doesn't matter how many draft picks they've had, they're still without Durant, and still have no chance. Young players and future draft picks don't guarantee you a championship or even a good swing at one.

Unless one of our future mid 1st round picks or Jovic or Jaime become better players than Jimmy ( ), then now is the time to push the chips to the center of the table. Actually the time was last season or the season before that, but there are no do overs.

[3ballbomber]

Herro now averaging 26.2ppg on 44/43/88 shooting splits

He's just getting started. . .

[MettaWorldPanda]

Next year Jimmy will be 35. If he's not cooked now, he will almost surely be cooked then. Next year is almost certainly a rebuilding year. If last season wasn't our last chance with Jimmy, this year is. We either try to win now or we don't really care about winning.

A future team led by Bam and Herro isn't winning a damn thing.

I don't know why fans don't understand just how heavily we rely on Jimmy to give us a chance to win it all. Dame is a very good player, but if you brought him in and lost Butler, that team is not in the Finals. Pat needs to quit sitting on our assets and make moves to improve the talent around Jimmy and Bam or it will be years before we're a serious threat again.

Honestly if it's gonna be a one year run that doesn't end in a chip and we have no assets left, then what's the point?

The point is to give yourself a chance. That's all a team can ever do. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone. OKC had Durant, and Westbrook, and Harden, and Ibaka ... and even Jeff Green. All of them under 25, and four of them 21 or 22 years old. They didn't win ****, and only came close once. They wasted Durant, and it doesn't matter how many draft picks they've had, they're still without Durant, and still have no chance. Young players and future draft picks don't guarantee you a championship or even a good swing at one.

Unless one of our future mid 1st round picks or Jovic or Jaime become better players than Jimmy ( ), then now is the time to push the chips to the center of the table. Actually the time was last season or the season before that, but there are no do overs.

Young players and draft picks are what gets you a star player these days. It’s no longer free agency. Lowry, Duncan, and our lowly cupboard of picks is not getting you a damn thing. Trading Herro most likely ends up in a lateral move. Jovic and JJJ also don’t hold much weight in trades right now either as mid to late first who still haven’t had a chance to prove themselves. Teams value the picks and getting the chance at drafting players they covet.

[MettaWorldPanda]

76ers can offer 1st in 2026(frees up our full compliment of draft picks to trade) 2029 1st and possibly up to 4 seconds in any Butler trade along with a clean slate of expiring contracts. Think Harris and a PG in return like Melton. Something we need to seriously consider in a soft rebuild reboot allowing us to be players for some of the big 2025 free agent names. Mitchell would make the most sense due to relationship with Bam.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Making the above suggested move allows us to effectively quietly tank this year for a lottery talent, give Jovic and JJJ ample playing time to grow, puts us in a position of strength going into next year with a good amount of young players and a full compliment of future draft picks to put into play for a new star that compliments Bam and Herro timeline. Gives us something real to look forward too. I appreciate everything Jimmy has done here but it’s time for our next phase. Let him finish his career out with Embiid.

[contract]

Honestly if it's gonna be a one year run that doesn't end in a chip and we have no assets left, then what's the point?

The point is to give yourself a chance. That's all a team can ever do. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone. OKC had Durant, and Westbrook, and Harden, and Ibaka ... and even Jeff Green. All of them under 25, and four of them 21 or 22 years old. They didn't win ****, and only came close once. They wasted Durant, and it doesn't matter how many draft picks they've had, they're still without Durant, and still have no chance. Young players and future draft picks don't guarantee you a championship or even a good swing at one.

Unless one of our future mid 1st round picks or Jovic or Jaime become better players than Jimmy ( ), then now is the time to push the chips to the center of the table. Actually the time was last season or the season before that, but there are no do overs.

Young players and draft picks are what gets you a star player these days. It’s no longer free agency. Lowry, Duncan, and our lowly cupboard of picks is not getting you a damn thing. Trading Herro most likely ends up in a lateral move. Jovic and JJJ also don’t hold much weight in trades right now either as mid to late first who still haven’t had a chance to prove themselves. Teams value the picks and getting the chance at drafting players they covet.

There are maybe 5 to 6 guys in the NBA at any one time that can lead a team to a championship. IMO we have one. I don't understand tossing him aside in hopes of getting another him years from now.