MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.3

[MettaWorldPanda]

We can't sign and trade Nunn for anyone. He'll be a base year compensation player.

Most likely any trade will be for a 2nd and trade exception.

Why should any team bother to give us a second when we can't match?

Yeah i guess your probably right on that. If we pull the QO we get 4.7 million off the hard cap to use on two more vet minimums. Maybe they are waiting to see if he accepts the QO if no better offers.

[dean456]

Yeh we get it you don’t know about spacing and gravity. Listing his points scored just outlines the lack of depth with which you view the game

In 2021 you can’t build a team around two non shooters unless you have absolutely elite shooters around them. Shooting is a premium and we can’t afford to lose it.

What **** spacing? Show me the spacing. He literally needs 2 screens to get up half his shots. And it's hardly unusual to see him get wide open looks as his defender drifts away from him.

You're obviously not watching a lot of full games if you think opposing defenders are routinely drifting away from Robinson and leaving him open. If they do its almost an automatic made 3.

Watch some highlights of our guys like Jimmy and focus on what Robinsons defender is doing while Jimmy's doing work. They are usually chasing Duncan or staying as glued to him as possible Duncan. That's the spacing and gravity he's talking about.

[Hallstar]

Robinson's deal is absolutely dreadful.

Miami has to be happy with what it has done so far given its limited resources, but it is hard to get excited about any of these moves...

Nah, wrong

$18M per for the guy you’ve built your offence around is fine. Especially seeing as he’s easily top 4 in the nba as a specialised shooter.

He is much better than McDermott. He has performed in the playoffs and he deserves his cash. His first year is $15m too so the raises go up with the bigger cap. It’ll age very well.

And the offence with two non shooting stars absolutely requires a shooter that essential = 2 shooters. Those players are very rare

I am confounded by fans talking about "building our offense" around such a limited player as if that was a good thing. Our offense stinks, and enormous amounts of effort go into manufacturing 13 points a game for Duncan Robinson. It takes a team-wide conspiracy to get Duncan those 13 points. He was our 6th leading scorer. He has 26 career games > 20 points ... and 1 career game > 30. I've seen people claim that he has "gravity" that creates space for Jimmy and Bam. Defenses are not worried about this guy. Why would they be? What is he going to do, erupt for a 20 point game?

I don't know what you guys are watching. Not only is the focal point of our offense a non-scorer, but one who can't even create his own. I'm not sure that Duncan would average 10 points a game without all the effort we waste getting him looks. I guarantee that our offense could be just as inept with Doug McDermott or Max Strus or Rodney McGruder.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Duncan is a nice player in a small role on a minimum contract. At $18 million he's an instant regret.

Praising this deal or Robinsons role in our offense is nuts. Spo is nuts!

Thank you. Spending 15 secs of clock with better players watching an awkward dribble hand off develop is not an offense, it's just offensive

[contract]

Strus, Vincent and Deadmon - 3 good gets for the minimum :

Strus - I think he's a legit rotation wing. Has size and toughness, not a Duncan level shooter but more versatile.

Vincent - We love to hate - but he's a super solid defender, heady, he just needs to find consistency with his 3's.

Dedmon - He was a must get. We desperately needed his size back, his rebounding and he knows how to play his role.

=========

I'm probably the biggest PJ Tucker hater here. Good tough guy, but man..not what I want in a player at all.

I Just really hate his combination of age, lack of size, and absolute lack of scoring. I really don't get how he's a good signing for anything more then minimum. I'm praying KZ/Yurtseven/traded PF can steal a lot of his minutes.

I don't think people realize the reality - he's a 36YO 6"5 dude who averages less then 5 PPG PER 36 (!!!!!!) and 5 boards per 36.

Even if he was the best defender in the NVA (which he's far from being) - that's just....wow.

Dedmon has value. Strus and Vincent are randos. They could literally be any two G-League guys.

And as far as Tucker goes, he's fine if you want a 6'5 PF who doesn't shoot that well. But he's 36 years old! For whatever reason Pat has decided that age is just a number, and that old legs aren't going to wear out chasing the ball around all season long in a long ass NBA season.

Miami needs a couple of low priced players to play over their contracts, I'm expecting Strus to be one of those guys and maybe to the extend that Miami could think about making a move with higher priced player. I'm really surprised people don't see potential in a guy who has a quick 3pt release and doesn't seem to be effected by missing a shot.

It's not that I don't value him, it's just that I'm not about to get carried away. He can contribute, but so can lots of other guys. Every NBA team has a bench full of guys that can contribute. Even well down the bench. There are more Max Struses out there.

[BBallFreak]

Still free agents :

DeMar DeRozan
Lauri Markkanen (R)
Markieff Morris
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Danny Green,
Rudy Gay
Paul Millsap
Malik Monk
Bruce Brown (R)

Signed but probably attainable and won't cost more then Nunn :

Kuzma
M.Bagley
few more

BYC

Please look it up. It will show you why you're wrong.

[dean456]

I'm comparing him to Doug McDermott... Not every player needs to be an all star scoring 30 to contribute to a teams success.

Honestly have you ever liked a move the Heat has made or posted positively about any take/topic in this forum? Because I struggle to think of any.

Never. Well except for when we drafted Winslow, but we don't need to talk about that.

I'll make this easy for you to understand. When I'm happy, I express ~ 90% of that in physical space with people that I like. When I'm unhappy I bitch about it online so the people I like aren't burdened by my pointless anger.

Also the good people at RealGM have blessed every user with the power to moderate whose posts they see. If my negativity gets to you, just click on my board name, "add foe" ... and you're done. Easy peasy.

Didn't know about the foe option. Thank god for that.

[BBallFreak]

Most likely any trade will be for a 2nd and trade exception.

Why should any team bother to give us a second when we can't match?

Yeah i guess your probably right on that. If we pull the QO we get 4.7 million off the hard cap to use on two more vet minimums. Maybe they are waiting to see if he accepts the QO if no better offers.

Yeah, someone will sign him for more than we can match, which isn't much, and we'll have our cap freed up a bit more

My ideal then would be to offer Lou Williams and Andre Drummond contracts to complete our depth.

Lou-Will, Drummond, Herro and Tucker as our bench with Dedmon and Adebayo starting together would make us a much better offensive team IMO...

[MettaWorldPanda]

Avery Bradley return kinda makes sense now considering the guard landscape.

[RexBoyWonder]

I'm comparing him to Doug McDermott... Not every player needs to be an all star scoring 30 to contribute to a teams success.

Honestly have you ever liked a move the Heat has made or posted positively about any take/topic in this forum? Because I struggle to think of any.

Never. Well except for when we drafted Winslow, but we don't need to talk about that.

I'll make this easy for you to understand. When I'm happy, I express ~ 90% of that in physical space with people that I like. When I'm unhappy I bitch about it online so the people I like aren't burdened by my pointless anger.

Also the good people at RealGM have blessed every user with the power to moderate whose posts they see. If my negativity gets to you, just click on my board name, "add foe" ... and you're done. Easy peasy.

let me be real for a sec.

I'm trying my best to be optimistic, And I'll find my own way to enjoy some aspects of the journey.

But I can easily see this team being a 6-8 seed for the next 4 years with no way to improve. I'd say that's probably the most likely outcome - if I put my homer glasses down. We're old, small, overpaid most of the roster, lacking in picks, some very limited core players.

I think it's very hard to have hope when your biggest moves are adding a 35YO and 36 YO while losing key pieces (Dragic + Precious + Nunn + Ariza).

our front office deserves alot of credit for what they did over the years - but if the Kings front office had our kind of offseason - I'd laugh at them.

What bothers me isn't that we're going to mediocre at best - it's that the hope of getting a lot better is kinda gone.

We'll see, we might still have a couple of moves up our sleeve. But I'd love to hear someone who can genuinely tell me why this offseason is anything but disappointing (so far).

[_GH0ST_]

Read on Twitter

Lowry liked this on twitter

[Variable-X]

Still free agents :

DeMar DeRozan
Lauri Markkanen (R)
Markieff Morris
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Danny Green,
Rudy Gay
Paul Millsap
Malik Monk
Bruce Brown (R)

Signed but probably attainable and won't cost more then Nunn :

Kuzma
M.Bagley
few more

BYC

Please look it up. It will show you why you're wrong.

Having just looked it up we would only gain half of his new deal value in a trade going out, so for him to be a significant component we have to find someone that is willing to pay him solid numbers for him to be of much value in a trade correct? Can he be combined with a player like iggy who in a sign and trade could go up to 18 mil (not saying at all iggy would get that) without triggering the BYC?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Everyone on NBA TV was gushing over our free agency Rex. Said we had the best day out of everyone.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Still free agents :

DeMar DeRozan
Lauri Markkanen (R)
Markieff Morris
Kelly Oubre Jr.
Danny Green,
Rudy Gay
Paul Millsap
Malik Monk
Bruce Brown (R)

Signed but probably attainable and won't cost more then Nunn :

Kuzma
M.Bagley
few more

BYC

Please look it up. It will show you why you're wrong.

Having just looked it up we would only gain half of his new deal value in a trade going out, so for him to be a significant component we have to find someone that is willing to pay him solid numbers for him to be of much value in a trade correct? Can he be combined with a player like iggy who in a sign and trade could go up to 18 mil (not saying at all iggy would get that) without triggering the BYC?

Nunn can’t be combined with another player in trade.

[Variable-X]

BYC

Please look it up. It will show you why you're wrong.

Having just looked it up we would only gain half of his new deal value in a trade going out, so for him to be a significant component we have to find someone that is willing to pay him solid numbers for him to be of much value in a trade correct? Can he be combined with a player like iggy who in a sign and trade could go up to 18 mil (not saying at all iggy would get that) without triggering the BYC?

Nunn can’t be combined with another player in trade.

Is that due to him being a restricted free agent?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Having just looked it up we would only gain half of his new deal value in a trade going out, so for him to be a significant component we have to find someone that is willing to pay him solid numbers for him to be of much value in a trade correct? Can he be combined with a player like iggy who in a sign and trade could go up to 18 mil (not saying at all iggy would get that) without triggering the BYC?

Nunn can’t be combined with another player in trade.

Is that due to him being a restricted free agent?

That is correct

[Variable-X]

Nunn can’t be combined with another player in trade.

Is that due to him being a restricted free agent?

That is correct

If we were to renounce him as a restricted free agent, we could potentially retain his bird rights correct? And if we did that with a trade in place then we could combine him with someone else that isn't as negatively impacted by BYC?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Is that due to him being a restricted free agent?

That is correct

If we were to renounce him as a restricted free agent, we could potentially retain his bird rights correct? And if we did that with a trade in place then we could combine him with someone else that isn't as negatively impacted by BYC?

Yes that’s a creative way of making something happen if you want to attach him with say someone like Herro.

[RexBoyWonder]

Everyone on NBA TV was gushing over our free agency Rex. Said we had the best day out of everyone.

I find that amazing. Who exactly said that?

And more importantly - Why? What was so great? are you even sure we got better then last year? Will we be better next year or 2 years from now?

We Lost old Dragic for Old Lowry
We lost old Ariza for older Tucker
We Lost Precious, about to lose Nunn
Maybe lose Dipo
Kept some guys we needed to keep

How is any of this making you feel positive?

[MettaWorldPanda]

OKC looks like a potential landing spot for Nunn.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Everyone on NBA TV was gushing over our free agency Rex. Said we had the best day out of everyone.

I find that amazing. Who exactly said that?

And more importantly - Why? What was so great? are you even sure we got better then last year? Will we be better next year or 2 years from now?

We Lost old Dragic for Old Lowry
We lost old Ariza for older Tucker
We Lost Precious, about to lose Nunn
Maybe lose Dipo
Kept some guys we needed to keep

How is any of this making you feel positive?

The entire panel of former players, GM’s, and coaches.