MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.3

[zgope1]

Yeh we get it you don’t know about spacing and gravity. Listing his points scored just outlines the lack of depth with which you view the game

In 2021 you can’t build a team around two non shooters unless you have absolutely elite shooters around them. Shooting is a premium and we can’t afford to lose it.

What **** spacing? Show me the spacing. He literally needs 2 screens to get up half his shots. And it's hardly unusual to see him get wide open looks as his defender drifts away from him.

If you think defences don’t worry about him I think we can spare eachother and everyone else continuing this discussion

[BBallFreak]

Nunn can’t be combined with another player in trade.

Is that due to him being a restricted free agent?

That is correct

He can be combined with another player.

The problem is his BYC status. Because he's due such a hefty raise, we can only take back 50% of what we send out while the team taking him has to be able to absorb 100%. In other words, the only teams that could take him are cap space teams.

If we sign him to a $10 million contract we can only take back $5 million. We'd need to find a team that needs just a bit more flexibility to sign him and had a contract small enough to only equal half his contract belonging to a player of use to us.

It's just not feasible...

[BBallFreak]

That is correct

If we were to renounce him as a restricted free agent, we could potentially retain his bird rights correct? And if we did that with a trade in place then we could combine him with someone else that isn't as negatively impacted by BYC?

Yes that’s a creative way of making something happen if you want to attach him with say someone like Herro.

Nope, no, and nyet!

If we renounce him, we renounce his Bird Rights. We'd only be able to resign him using our exceptions or the minimum.

He can already be combined with another player. Nothing we do, short of resigning him to a small enough contract (which he won't accept) removes his BYC status.

[MettaWorldPanda]

If we were to renounce him as a restricted free agent, we could potentially retain his bird rights correct? And if we did that with a trade in place then we could combine him with someone else that isn't as negatively impacted by BYC?

Yes that’s a creative way of making something happen if you want to attach him with say someone like Herro.

Nope, no, and nyet!

If we renounce him, we renounce his Bird Rights. We'd only be able to resign him using our exceptions or the minimum.

He can already be combined with another player. Nothing we do, short of resigning him to a small enough contract (which he won't accept) removes his BYC status.

I thought if we pulled the QO we can retain his bird rights but stays on the cap at 1.7? Guessing a deadline might have passed for us to do that?

[Variable-X]

If we were to renounce him as a restricted free agent, we could potentially retain his bird rights correct? And if we did that with a trade in place then we could combine him with someone else that isn't as negatively impacted by BYC?

Yes that’s a creative way of making something happen if you want to attach him with say someone like Herro.

Nope, no, and nyet!

If we renounce him, we renounce his Bird Rights. We'd only be able to resign him using our exceptions or the minimum.

He can already be combined with another player. Nothing we do, short of resigning him to a small enough contract (which he won't accept) removes his BYC status.

I think I may have used the wrong term there, if you pull the QO it isn't renouncing him but it does remove the restricted status of his free agency correct? And if we were pairing him with Oladipo or Iggy to increase the outgoing salary to make a more palatable offer to Demar that is feasible (if as you say unlikely) correct?

[greg4012]

A tale of 2 shooters.

Duncan Robinson is 27yrs old and just signed a 5yr, $90m deal with Miami ($18m per)

Doug McDermott is a 29yr old and just signed a 3yr, $42m deal with the Spurs ($14m per)

Both deals take them through to 32 years old.

Robinson: 13.1ppg, 3.5rpg, 1.8apg, 0.6spg, 0.3bpg, 1.1tpg, 31.4mpg on 43.9%FG, 40.8% 3FG (3.5 per) and 82.7% FT (0.9 per). 61.4% eFG.

McDermott: 13.6ppg, 3.3rpg, 1.3apg, 0.3spg, 0.1bpg, 0.8tpg, 24.5mpg on 53.2%FG, 38.8% 3FG (1.7 per) and 81.6% FT (1.2 per). 61.6% eFG.

Did we get finessed a little here? McBuckets looks like a really solid option side by side at $4m cheaper.

I suppose the closest comparison's to Duncan are also probably Bertans (signed for 5/80 last year at $16m per) and Joe Harris (4/75 at $18.75m per). Hoping that adding Lowry and perhaps some tweaks of our offensive system means we get Duncan some cleaner looks and he can go back to 2020 efficiency of 66.7% eFG.

I don't think McDermott is capable of getting the same volume of 3s off at a good rate as Duncan (he never has in his career). He's more of a spot up shooter than he is capable of being an off the screen/run shooter like Duncan. He can probably score a little more inside the arc, but from a pure spacing perspective, Duncan provides an elevated dynamic. Close to a wash though I do see the argument.

[Variable-X]

Say for example we help GSW and SAS facilitate their sign and trade for oubre and make it a three way deal. With us contributing Nunn and Iggy who are both redirected to GSW as Oubre goes to SAS and we receive Demar. Would something of that nature work?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Some of these teams with cap space will probably start stepping in and signing these young players like Nunn and Monk here soon for good value.

[AirP.]

Here's the important numbers...
Hard cap: $143M
Tax: $136.6M

Just looking at the situation(I don't think these numbers are 100% correct but they're close).
Got the contract numbers from... https://en.hispanosnba.com/salaries/miami-heat

$36,016,200 Jimmy Butler
$28,571,429 Kyle Lowry
$28,103,500 Bam Adebayo
$15,517,242 Duncan Robinson
$ 7,500,000 P.J. Tucker
$ 5,214,583 Ryan Anderson *
$ 4,736,102 Kendrick Nunn
$ 4,004,280 Tyler Herro
$ 2,320,044 Dewayne Dedmon
$ 1,782,621 KZ Okpala
$ 1,620,564 Max Strus
$ 1,620,564 Gabe Vincent


With 11 signed, Miami needs a minimum of 3 more players under contract for the 14 man roster(max 15)
So as of now $132,271,027, leaving 4.4 mil under the tax, just under 11 mil under the hard cap.

FYI - The minimum for a 0 exp player is under 1 mil a year, adding 3 of these players leaves 1.4-1.5 under the tax(for now) and 8 mil under the Hard Cap.

Here's a link for salary minimums...
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

So if Miami S&Ts Nunn or Oladipo up to 12 million, they can bring back 15 million in salaries but the Hard Cap only would limit Miami to 13 available to come back. You could add KZ and/or Herro to the package make it possible to bring back more(like a draft asset).

Also with Oladipo's Min looks to be $2,389,641 so if Miami wants to retain his rights and keep him with the team for the min, that's the number.

[SoFlaKingReal]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31945715/why-kyle-lowry-nearly-perfect-fit-next-jimmy-butler-bam-adebayo-miami-heat

[MettaWorldPanda]

Say for example we help GSW and SAS facilitate their sign and trade for oubre and make it a three way deal. With us contributing Nunn and Iggy who are both redirected to GSW as Oubre goes to SAS and we receive Demar. Would something of that nature work?

Trying to find out how much wiggle room we have against the hard cap.

[BBallFreak]

Yes that’s a creative way of making something happen if you want to attach him with say someone like Herro.

Nope, no, and nyet!

If we renounce him, we renounce his Bird Rights. We'd only be able to resign him using our exceptions or the minimum.

He can already be combined with another player. Nothing we do, short of resigning him to a small enough contract (which he won't accept) removes his BYC status.

I think I may have used the wrong term there, if you pull the QO it isn't renouncing him but it does remove the restricted status of his free agency correct? And if we were pairing him with Oladipo or Iggy to increase the outgoing salary to make a more palatable offer to Demar that is feasible (if as you say unlikely) correct?

Yes, rescinding the qualifying offer does indeed remove his restricted free agent status, but it's completely unnecessary given what you've proposed.

No matter what we do with him; rescind the qualifying offer, renounce him and sign him to a fictional second MLE, he'll be a base year compensation player. That's just going to happen no matter what.

As a restricted free agent, you can indeed include other players. You're making things more complicated by worrying about that.

The fact, however, remains that we are hard capped and very close to that range. We're not going to be able to do anything with Nunn unless he accepts the qualifying offer...

[MettaWorldPanda]

Here's the important numbers...
Hard cap: $143M
Tax: $136.6M

Just looking at the situation(I don't think these numbers are 100% correct but they're close).
Got the contract numbers from... https://en.hispanosnba.com/salaries/miami-heat

$36,016,200 Jimmy Butler
$28,571,429 Kyle Lowry
$28,103,500 Bam Adebayo
$15,517,242 Duncan Robinson
$ 7,500,000 P.J. Tucker
$ 5,214,583 Ryan Anderson *
$ 4,736,102 Kendrick Nunn
$ 4,004,280 Tyler Herro
$ 2,320,044 Dewayne Dedmon
$ 1,782,621 KZ Okpala
$ 1,620,564 Max Strus
$ 1,620,564 Gabe Vincent


With 11 signed, Miami needs a minimum of 3 more players under contract for the 14 man roster(max 15)
So as of now $132,271,027, leaving 4.4 mil under the tax, just under 11 mil under the hard cap.

FYI - The minimum for a 0 exp player is under 1 mil a year, adding 3 of these players leaves 1.4-1.5 under the tax(for now) and 8 mil under the Hard Cap.

Here's a link for salary minimums...
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

So if Miami S&Ts Nunn or Oladipo up to 12 million, they can bring back 15 million in salaries but the Hard Cap only would limit Miami to 13 available to come back. You could add KZ and/or Herro to the package make it possible to bring back more(like a draft asset).

Also with Oladipo's Min looks to be $2,389,641 so if Miami wants to retain his rights and keep him with the team for the min, that's the number.

Thank you so much for this. Just what i was looking for

[twix2500]

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[BBallFreak]

Say for example we help GSW and SAS facilitate their sign and trade for oubre and make it a three way deal. With us contributing Nunn and Iggy who are both redirected to GSW as Oubre goes to SAS and we receive Demar. Would something of that nature work?

No, because of the hard cap. We are not allowed, under any circumstances, to go above a certain number.

[AirP.]

Say for example we help GSW and SAS facilitate their sign and trade for oubre and make it a three way deal. With us contributing Nunn and Iggy who are both redirected to GSW as Oubre goes to SAS and we receive Demar. Would something of that nature work?

Trying to find out how much wiggle room we have against the hard cap.

If they sign minimum 0 exp players, around 8 mil may be left without Oladipo signed but Nunn taking the QO.

[Variable-X]

Some of these teams with cap space will probably start stepping in and signing these young players like Nunn and Monk here soon for good value.

That would be the smart play from an outside perspective, but for the sake of retaining the trade chip for ourselves don't we match a decent deal for Nunn? As long as it fits under the hard cap. And does luxury tax get calculated at beginning of season or the end? If at the end and we keep Nunn we might be able to move him at the trade deadline to try and receive better compensation.

[RexBoyWonder]

Is that due to him being a restricted free agent?

That is correct

He can be combined with another player.

The problem is his BYC status. Because he's due such a hefty raise, we can only take back 50% of what we send out while the team taking him has to be able to absorb 100%. In other words, the only teams that could take him are cap space teams.

If we sign him to a $10 million contract we can only take back $5 million. We'd need to find a team that needs just a bit more flexibility to sign him and had a contract small enough to only equal half his contract belonging to a player of use to us.

It's just not feasible...

It's very feasible, we might need to use Iggy or KZ and you need the right team/player but it can be done and I bet they'll look at the options

[Variable-X]

How does the hard cap effect the signing of players to minimum deals to meet the minimum acceptable numbers of players on the roster?

[AirP.]

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Here's the odds for all teams.

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