Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[marson]

Just looking at some numbers out of curiosity.

Touches per game
Herro is 17th at 76.4
Bam is 50th at 62.8
Lowry is 66th at 56.4
Butler is 78th at 54.0
Richardson is 100th at 49.5

Those numbers are a little crazy to me, but looking around, maybe some bigger named players are also being underutilized vs last year, one that stuck out was Sakiam.
Sakiam 80.4 => 66.0
Heild 58.7 => 41.8
Crazy enough...
J.Poole 65.7 => 51.5

Sakiam and Poole are playing a little less then they did last year but are touching the ball a good amount less, Heild is playing 9 minutes less a game so about the same touch rate per minute, could be a cheaper target.

Something a little alarming, Herro is 3rd highest mpg at 38.5 and something that's weird is Max Strus is 7th at 37.2.

Part of that is the lack of PG in this team. Herro is doing almost everything including playmaking.

Jimmy is also weirdly passive and it looks like he is letting Tyler create more for others than himself.

[AirP.]

Just looking at some numbers out of curiosity.

Touches per game
Herro is 17th at 76.4
Bam is 50th at 62.8
Lowry is 66th at 56.4
Butler is 78th at 54.0
Richardson is 100th at 49.5

Those numbers are a little crazy to me, but looking around, maybe some bigger named players are also being underutilized vs last year, one that stuck out was Sakiam.
Sakiam 80.4 => 66.0
Heild 58.7 => 41.8
Crazy enough...
J.Poole 65.7 => 51.5

Sakiam and Poole are playing a little less then they did last year but are touching the ball a good amount less, Heild is playing 9 minutes less a game so about the same touch rate per minute, could be a cheaper target.

Something a little alarming, Herro is 3rd highest mpg at 38.5 and something that's weird is Max Strus is 7th at 37.2.

Part of that is the lack of PG in this team. Herro is doing almost everything including playmaking.

Jimmy is also weirdly passive and it looks like he is letting Tyler create more for others than himself.

I'd much rather see the offense run through Bam like it once did when he was getting 5+ assists a night and he now has a more consistant midrange game to complement it. I'd like to see Herro catch and shooting 3s mostly.

[marson]

Just looking at some numbers out of curiosity.

Touches per game
Herro is 17th at 76.4
Bam is 50th at 62.8
Lowry is 66th at 56.4
Butler is 78th at 54.0
Richardson is 100th at 49.5

Those numbers are a little crazy to me, but looking around, maybe some bigger named players are also being underutilized vs last year, one that stuck out was Sakiam.
Sakiam 80.4 => 66.0
Heild 58.7 => 41.8
Crazy enough...
J.Poole 65.7 => 51.5

Sakiam and Poole are playing a little less then they did last year but are touching the ball a good amount less, Heild is playing 9 minutes less a game so about the same touch rate per minute, could be a cheaper target.

Something a little alarming, Herro is 3rd highest mpg at 38.5 and something that's weird is Max Strus is 7th at 37.2.

Part of that is the lack of PG in this team. Herro is doing almost everything including playmaking.

Jimmy is also weirdly passive and it looks like he is letting Tyler create more for others than himself.

I'd much rather see the offense run through Bam like it once did when he was getting 5+ assists a night and he now has a more consistant midrange game to complement it. I'd like to see Herro catch and shooting 3s mostly.

That's not his game though. Herro is not effective at playing the Robinson/Strus role for this team.

[AirP.]

Part of that is the lack of PG in this team. Herro is doing almost everything including playmaking.

Jimmy is also weirdly passive and it looks like he is letting Tyler create more for others than himself.

I'd much rather see the offense run through Bam like it once did when he was getting 5+ assists a night and he now has a more consistant midrange game to complement it. I'd like to see Herro catch and shooting 3s mostly.

That's not his game though. Herro is not effective at playing the Robinson/Strus role for this team.

Sure, but having league average efficiency because you take a ton of 2pt shots when you're a high level 3pt shooter isn't good. Kind of like not enjoying Robinson's new way less efficient all around game. Robinson wouldn't be in the league if he played like this from the beginning.

It may not matter, Wemby may dominate the next 15+ years.

[Daffy]

You think Bam and Donovan Mitchell can win a championship?

I would say it depends heavily on their supporting cast.

A good idea of it would be swapping Herro for Donovan. I still don't think Jimmy, Mitchell, and Bam are enough currently watching this season. Our supporting cast lacks talent.

Basically what I'm saying is if Herro continues this level of play he isn't even our issue anymore.

There would be no Jimmy. Jimmy would have been traded in this scenario.

I know. I was using Jimmy as an example in saying that it would take 3 guys plus a solid supporting cast to win with Mitchell and Bam. Basically if we had Mitchell, Bam and a 3rd guy it still wouldn't be enough. The problem is lack of talent around our guys. I mean I do think we have some talent on our team but we have different issues happening right now. Injuries, Spo possibly tinkering with lineups to see what he likes, Jimmy not looking good etc.

[Hallstar]

I'd much rather see the offense run through Bam like it once did when he was getting 5+ assists a night and he now has a more consistant midrange game to complement it. I'd like to see Herro catch and shooting 3s mostly.

That's not his game though. Herro is not effective at playing the Robinson/Strus role for this team.

Sure, but having league average efficiency because you take a ton of 2pt shots when you're a high level 3pt shooter isn't good. Kind of like not enjoying Robinson's new way less efficient all around game. Robinson wouldn't be in the league if he played like this from the beginning.

It may not matter, Wemby may dominate the next 15+ years.

herro is taking 9 3s a game, don't know how much you expect him to take. He is the only spacing at the moment. Our role players hit there's last game and we blow out Brooklyn. Jacquez and Rich were wide open on most attempts. If we start focing Bam to playmake out the elbow we'll neuter him as a scorer since he won't get his open jumpers or pnr runs.

[VaDe255]

That's not his game though. Herro is not effective at playing the Robinson/Strus role for this team.

Sure, but having league average efficiency because you take a ton of 2pt shots when you're a high level 3pt shooter isn't good. Kind of like not enjoying Robinson's new way less efficient all around game. Robinson wouldn't be in the league if he played like this from the beginning.

It may not matter, Wemby may dominate the next 15+ years.

herro is taking 9 3s a game, don't know how much you expect him to take. He is the only spacing at the moment. Our role players hit there's last game and we blow out Brooklyn. Jacquez and Rich were wide open on most attempts. If we start focing Bam to playmake out the elbow we'll neuter him as a scorer since he won't get his open jumpers or pnr runs.

He is taking 22 FGs right now, and I'm fine with that volume. However, 13 of those are 2-point attempts with roughly 8 being mid-range shots in most games.
Those mid-range shots are generally less efficient, and if he's taking that many field goals, I think he should be aiming for at least 11 three-pointers a game.

When we look at elite scorers in the league, like Lillard, we see that out of his 21 field goal attempts last season, 11 were from beyond the arc. Harden, during his prime years of dominance, took more three-pointers than two-pointers.

I understand the difficulty might increase when Bam or Jimmy is out and Herro gets more defensive attention, but when all three are playing, there's no excuse for him not to adjust his shot selection accordingly.

[contract]

Just looking at some numbers out of curiosity.

Touches per game
Herro is 17th at 76.4
Bam is 50th at 62.8
Lowry is 66th at 56.4
Butler is 78th at 54.0
Richardson is 100th at 49.5

Those numbers are a little crazy to me, but looking around, maybe some bigger named players are also being underutilized vs last year, one that stuck out was Sakiam.
Sakiam 80.4 => 66.0
Heild 58.7 => 41.8
Crazy enough...
J.Poole 65.7 => 51.5

Sakiam and Poole are playing a little less then they did last year but are touching the ball a good amount less, Heild is playing 9 minutes less a game so about the same touch rate per minute, could be a cheaper target.

Something a little alarming, Herro is 3rd highest mpg at 38.5 and something that's weird is Max Strus is 7th at 37.2.

The Heat wanted to get Herro up to ~ 26 ppg so ...

His efficiency ain't budging though.

[AirP.]

That's not his game though. Herro is not effective at playing the Robinson/Strus role for this team.

Sure, but having league average efficiency because you take a ton of 2pt shots when you're a high level 3pt shooter isn't good. Kind of like not enjoying Robinson's new way less efficient all around game. Robinson wouldn't be in the league if he played like this from the beginning.

It may not matter, Wemby may dominate the next 15+ years.

herro is taking 9 3s a game, don't know how much you expect him to take. He is the only spacing at the moment. Our role players hit there's last game and we blow out Brooklyn. Jacquez and Rich were wide open on most attempts. If we start focing Bam to playmake out the elbow we'll neuter him as a scorer since he won't get his open jumpers or pnr runs.

No problem with the 3s, take more, it's the 2s that are the issue, I've said time after time, year after year he's a good 3pt shooter and should be putting those up at high volume, the issue is the volume of 2pt shots. He's taking .8 more 3 per game then last year, so more good efficient shots, more good for Miami but he's also taking FIVE more 2pt shots than last year. Even if he hits close to 50% from 2pt range he's only giving Miami's offense 100 points per 100 shots since he's not really getting to the line much for how many FGA he's taking, it's simple math to understand taking that volume of lower scoring with take everyone else being much more efficient to get Miami's overall offense to score more per game. I don't understand how people can't grasp the concept of efficient offense for a high-volume player means efficient offense for the team. If Herro can get up there near 60% TS% great! Right now his calculated ORTG is 108 with the league average calculated ORTG being 110.9 which is down from last year's crazy 114.8.

Neuter Bam as a scorer? He was putting up just under 19 ppg with 5.4 assists with a 122 calculated ORTG and since that season he's gotten more consistent from the midrange, I don't think it'll hurt him much at all and in fact, I think he'd score more and make his teammates score more efficiently. BTW, Bam's calculated ORTG this season is 108 with his assists since being a 30+ mpg player is at it's lowest at 2.5 which is also the lowest rate of assists in his career at 2.7 assists per36, the same amount as his rookie year.

[AirP.]

Just looking at some numbers out of curiosity.

Touches per game
Herro is 17th at 76.4
Bam is 50th at 62.8
Lowry is 66th at 56.4
Butler is 78th at 54.0
Richardson is 100th at 49.5

Those numbers are a little crazy to me, but looking around, maybe some bigger named players are also being underutilized vs last year, one that stuck out was Sakiam.
Sakiam 80.4 => 66.0
Heild 58.7 => 41.8
Crazy enough...
J.Poole 65.7 => 51.5

Sakiam and Poole are playing a little less then they did last year but are touching the ball a good amount less, Heild is playing 9 minutes less a game so about the same touch rate per minute, could be a cheaper target.

Something a little alarming, Herro is 3rd highest mpg at 38.5 and something that's weird is Max Strus is 7th at 37.2.

The Heat wanted to get Herro up to ~ 26 ppg so ...

His efficiency ain't budging though.

His efficiency not moving isn't terrible for more shots and actually it's usually good it's about the same, it's somewhat around the last 2 year's efficiency, but that isn't making Miami into a good scoring offense, it's trending them more towards Herro's level of efficiency since he's taking more of Miami's shots. If Herro can get his efficiency up there around 60% TS% now you're talking about building an offense around him. Bam's been around that range, Butler's been around historic levels of TS% for a scoring wing because of his low TOs and getting to the line. Both Butler and Jokic last year were 2 of the top 3-4 of the last 25 years in calculated ORTG-DRTG for 20ppg guys.

[contract]

I was just browsing our salary cap again and was reminded that we gave washed 35 year old Kevin Love a player option for next season. WTF is Pat even doing? Does he even know anymore?

[contract]

Just looking at some numbers out of curiosity.

Touches per game
Herro is 17th at 76.4
Bam is 50th at 62.8
Lowry is 66th at 56.4
Butler is 78th at 54.0
Richardson is 100th at 49.5

Those numbers are a little crazy to me, but looking around, maybe some bigger named players are also being underutilized vs last year, one that stuck out was Sakiam.
Sakiam 80.4 => 66.0
Heild 58.7 => 41.8
Crazy enough...
J.Poole 65.7 => 51.5

Sakiam and Poole are playing a little less then they did last year but are touching the ball a good amount less, Heild is playing 9 minutes less a game so about the same touch rate per minute, could be a cheaper target.

Something a little alarming, Herro is 3rd highest mpg at 38.5 and something that's weird is Max Strus is 7th at 37.2.

The Heat wanted to get Herro up to ~ 26 ppg so ...

His efficiency ain't budging though.

His efficiency not moving isn't terrible for more shots and actually it's usually good it's about the same, it's somewhat around the last 2 year's efficiency, but that isn't making Miami into a good scoring offense, it's trending them more towards Herro's level of efficiency since he's taking more of Miami's shots. If Herro can get his efficiency up there around 60% TS% now you're talking about building an offense around him. Bam's been around that range, Butler's been around historic levels of TS% for a scoring wing because of his low TOs and getting to the line. Both Butler and Jokic last year were 2 of the top 3-4 of the last 25 years in calculated ORTG-DRTG for 20ppg guys.

He's probably not going to shoot 43% from 3 for the season, so his TS% which is already down slightly (56.6% TS ---> 55.5% TS%) is bound to drop a bit further if he keeps putting up mid-range shots like he's been doing.

[AirP.]

I was just browsing our salary cap again and was reminded that we gave washed 35 year old Kevin Love a player option for next season. WTF is Pat even doing? Does he even know anymore?

Mentorship. I think he's a great vet to have around Jovic and the vet minimum for a 10+ year vet is over 3 million so he's making 700k over the minimum as a starter (low minutes of course), if you think that's high for a minimum(plus he's putting in real minutes), the MLE is going to be around 13 mil. You can also see why Dru Smith at 1 year experience. You can also see why Dru Smith with 1 year of experience was signed instead of 3 year experienced RJ Hampton or some more experienced PG.

Years of experience Minimum salary for 2023-24
0 $1.1 million
1 $1.8 million
2 $2.01 million
3 $2.09 million
4 $2.1 million
5 $2.3 million
6 $2.5 million
7 $2.7 million
8 $2.8 million
9 $2.9 million
10+ $3.1 million

[contract]

I was just browsing our salary cap again and was reminded that we gave washed 35 year old Kevin Love a player option for next season. WTF is Pat even doing? Does he even know anymore?

Mentorship. I think he's a great vet to have around Jovic and the vet minimum for a 10+ year vet is over 3 million, if you think that's nuts, the MLE is going to be around 13 mil.

Whatever the MLE is ... the 2nd apron is a bitch. People need to get over the idea that salaries don't matter. Every single dollar you piss away is a dollar less flexibility you have.

And what make Love such a great mentor? This is a guy who quit on his team on the court a few seasons back. And how's it working out so far? And how many seasons is Jovic going to need hand holding?

[contract]

(plus he's putting in real minutes)

Lets focus on one problem at a time.

[contract]

Also, you don't need to give an old washed up beater a player option. It should be a team option or a 1 year deal. Is someone going to outbid us for his services?

[AirP.]

I was just browsing our salary cap again and was reminded that we gave washed 35 year old Kevin Love a player option for next season. WTF is Pat even doing? Does he even know anymore?

Mentorship. I think he's a great vet to have around Jovic and the vet minimum for a 10+ year vet is over 3 million, if you think that's nuts, the MLE is going to be around 13 mil.

Whatever the MLE is ... the 2nd apron is a bitch. People need to get over the idea that salaries don't matter. Every single dollar you piss away is a dollar less flexibility you have.

And what make Love such a great mentor? This is a guy who quit on his team on the court a few seasons back. And how's it working out so far? And how many seasons is Jovic going to need hand holding?

Love was resigned to retain an asset for Cleveland yet never traded him and went into a rebuild, although older players are getting paid good money they still want to compete vs just show up and get a check, most love basketball hence playing it all their lives and K.Love was in that situation... which is the same situation Lillard was looking at, or Butler was looking at in Chicago and in Minnesota since the younger guys had the owner's ear.

[AirP.]

I was just browsing our salary cap again and was reminded that we gave washed 35 year old Kevin Love a player option for next season. WTF is Pat even doing? Does he even know anymore?

Mentorship. I think he's a great vet to have around Jovic and the vet minimum for a 10+ year vet is over 3 million, if you think that's nuts, the MLE is going to be around 13 mil.

Whatever the MLE is ... the 2nd apron is a bitch. People need to get over the idea that salaries don't matter. Every single dollar you piss away is a dollar less flexibility you have.

And what make Love such a great mentor? This is a guy who quit on his team on the court a few seasons back. And how's it working out so far? And how many seasons is Jovic going to need hand holding?

The 2nd apron will change how teams build their roster and we've not seen much of what the 2nd apron will do, it really kicks in next summer. The new CBA may be highly beneficial for Mami since they already try to operate as a team that doesn't want to go into the tax.

[contract]

Mentorship. I think he's a great vet to have around Jovic and the vet minimum for a 10+ year vet is over 3 million, if you think that's nuts, the MLE is going to be around 13 mil.

Whatever the MLE is ... the 2nd apron is a bitch. People need to get over the idea that salaries don't matter. Every single dollar you piss away is a dollar less flexibility you have.

And what make Love such a great mentor? This is a guy who quit on his team on the court a few seasons back. And how's it working out so far? And how many seasons is Jovic going to need hand holding?

1st, Love was resigned to retain an asset for Cleveland yet never traded him and went into a rebuild, although older players are getting paid good money they still want to compete vs just show up and get a check, most love basketball hence playing it all their lives and K.Love was in that situation... which is the same situation Lillard was looking at, or Butler was looking at in Chicago and in Minnesota since the younger guys had the owner's ear.

I don't care about sob stories about betrayal. DWade didn't quit on his team. Competitors grind their teeth, but they compete. Love has gotten a pass because of his acknowledged mental health issues. It has nothing to do with anything else. If you put your name on a contract and you take the man's money, then you do your job. Taking the money then quitting just makes you a thief.

None of which matters to my point. Love is dead weight. He was dead weight last season, and he certainly didn't need to given 2 more guaranteed seasons of sucking on our squad.

[AirP.]

Whatever the MLE is ... the 2nd apron is a bitch. People need to get over the idea that salaries don't matter. Every single dollar you piss away is a dollar less flexibility you have.

And what make Love such a great mentor? This is a guy who quit on his team on the court a few seasons back. And how's it working out so far? And how many seasons is Jovic going to need hand holding?

1st, Love was resigned to retain an asset for Cleveland yet never traded him and went into a rebuild, although older players are getting paid good money they still want to compete vs just show up and get a check, most love basketball hence playing it all their lives and K.Love was in that situation... which is the same situation Lillard was looking at, or Butler was looking at in Chicago and in Minnesota since the younger guys had the owner's ear.

I don't care about sob stories about betrayal. DWade didn't quit on his team. Competitors grind their teeth, but they compete. Love has gotten a pass because of his acknowledged mental health issues. It has nothing to do with anything else. If you put your name on a contract and you take the man's money, then you do your job. Taking the money then quitting just makes you a thief.

No of which matters to my point. Love is dead weight. He was dead weight last season, and he certainly didn't need to given 2 more guaranteed seasons of sucking on our squad.

Wade left Miami, went to Chicago and hated it so much he gave back 8 million dollars to become a FA vs stay there while very unhappy, something some players can't do with their teams, luckily instead of being stuck on a bad rebuilding team it was the Bulls because nearly every other team would have retained him and tried to move him for basketball assets, not Chicago, they care/cared about maximizing their profits while not being in the tax. It's crazy how much they prioritized money over the product.

The franchise in Miami isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than most of the franchises in the NBA.