2025 Offseason Thread Vol.6

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Unless Spo has decided to tinker the playbook with this new group and give Bam more of the scoring load he’s going to flirt with his usual 20-10-5 every night with his usual usage and shot attempts. I’m hoping it’s the former

[VaDe255]

Bam is not going to be a scorer. It's past time to throw in the towel on that one.

Let him fail trying. You have to build around someone.

I don't think it's a matter of failing. Some guys just don't think like scorers. He's simply OK with letting other guys have the ball and take the shots.

It isn't that he is happy to let others do it, he just can't scale up the volume and stay efficient, at least we're yet to see it.
What's he going to do, take 18 middies a game and a few 3s? So he can score 22 ppg?

We've seen it in the Finals vs the Nuggets he was taking 20 FGAs a game and scored 22 ppg, Nuggets were happy to just let him score at 50% TS.

He was most efficient when he was taking 11-13 FGA early once he became a starter and increased his jumper volume every year since and it's been a decline in true shooting efficiency for 5 straight years!

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Let him fail trying. You have to build around someone.

I don't think it's a matter of failing. Some guys just don't think like scorers. He's simply OK with letting other guys have the ball and take the shots.

It isn't that he is happy to let others do it, he just can't scale up the volume and stay efficient, at least we're yet to see it.
What's he going to do, take 18 middies a game and a few 3s? So he can score 22 ppg?

We've seen it in the Finals vs the Nuggets he was taking 20 FGAs a game and scored 22 ppg, Nuggets were happy to just let him score at 50% TS.

He was most efficient when he was taking 11-13 FGA early once he became a starter and increased his jumper volume every year since and it's been a decline in true shooting efficiency for 5 straight years!

They were fine with Tyler scoring 20 on 17-18 shots a night for years, then they tinkered his shot diet and it led to increased scoring and efficiency. Sometimes it’s that simple, you joke about the midrange but you take a good portion of those and turn them into rim attempts and a slight increase in 3 volume and that alone could do wonders for his efficiency. Add in finding a way to sell contact better and you could get some extra free throws to help as well to go hand in hand in the rim attempts.

Although I do think it’s a lot more of a necessity for your bigs to have good playmaking next to them to get the most out of them, maybe Davion takes a step there with his increased role and not having to guess if he was going to play or not every night like the norm for his career

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It’s non guaranteed but I think Precious is here to stay. Apparently Pat has wanted him back for a while and was now finally able to get him.

[twix2500]

If Stan can scheme Dwight Howard to average 22, there is a scheme for Bam to average 22

[TroubleS0me]

Let him fail trying. You have to build around someone.

I don't think it's a matter of failing. Some guys just don't think like scorers. He's simply OK with letting other guys have the ball and take the shots.

He asked for it, and the Heat are building around that. If he doesn’t step up, yes it’s a failure. One of the reasons he asked to play power forward was because of the physical wear it put on him and the energy that is spent. So they got him Ware.

“I have to collaborate with Spo,” Adebayo says. “Because he knows I’m ambitious. I want to have a bigger load. I want to have a bigger responsibility on this team, and not just on the defensive end.”

It would take a lot more off my plate to do other things,” Adebayo said

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article293455389.html#storylink=cpy

Team president Pat Riley told his big man last summer to start shooting at least 15 shots a game.

"This year, I went into the [season] saying I'm going to average this and shoot this and I'm living by that," Adebayo told FOX Sports. "It has helped the team. It's helped me. And it's helped us win games."

He has never averaged 15 fga or more yet. The front office is putting the ball in Bam and Spo hands to make it work

hmm we will see. Probably about 21-22 PPG for Bam.

[twix2500]

It’s non guaranteed but I think Precious is here to stay. Apparently Pat has wanted him back for a while and was now finally able to get him.

Read on Twitter

?s=61

[HeatFanLifer]

I remember Riley tried to bring back Caron Butler back many times but it never worked out. Now he is a Heat assistant head coach. Pat Riley did manage to bring Luke Babbitt back tho. Babbitt is not a Heat assistant coach.

[SA37]

Herro's ranking look egregious because he was an All-Star, aka top 24 players in the league.

68 is almost 72 (24 x 3 = 72), like you would choose him in the 6th team of All Stars.

In reality he was never the 24th best player in the league, he beat out Bam Adebayo and Jimmy Butler for spots who were on the Heat roster at points, and both are/were better players.

A number of injuries or situations prevented better players from making the All-Star game but without looking I assume that would put Herro in the 30's or 40's. Maybe some players were on bad rosters and you have to be near a winning team to usually qualify, putting him maybe lower, but not 68 lower.

His ranking seems to be him paying for the playoff debacle I'd guess, as it really raised questions about him as a top player.

Herro would have been lower if everyone had been considered: Due to their long-term injuries, Jayson Tatum, Tyrese Haliburton, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Dejounte Murray and Fred VanVleet are not part of this season's rankings.

Herro is an elite shooter, but has no other elite skill. If you're going to compare him to primary ball-handlers with heavy scoring responsibilities, he'd be behind a lot of guys, likely out of the top-20. I don't think there is a strong case to have Herro in the top-50 in the NBA.

One thing that is clear in the rankings is that there is no distinction between role players and primary players, which is how you get Lu Dort and Alex Caruso ahead of guys who have way more responsibility on the basketball court and don't have the luxury of playing off of primary players.

[Hallstar]

Herro's ranking look egregious because he was an All-Star, aka top 24 players in the league.

68 is almost 72 (24 x 3 = 72), like you would choose him in the 6th team of All Stars.

In reality he was never the 24th best player in the league, he beat out Bam Adebayo and Jimmy Butler for spots who were on the Heat roster at points, and both are/were better players.

A number of injuries or situations prevented better players from making the All-Star game but without looking I assume that would put Herro in the 30's or 40's. Maybe some players were on bad rosters and you have to be near a winning team to usually qualify, putting him maybe lower, but not 68 lower.

His ranking seems to be him paying for the playoff debacle I'd guess, as it really raised questions about him as a top player.

Herro would have been lower if everyone had been considered: Due to their long-term injuries, Jayson Tatum, Tyrese Haliburton, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Dejounte Murray and Fred VanVleet are not part of this season's rankings.

Herro is an elite shooter, but has no other elite skill. If you're going to compare him to primary ball-handlers with heavy scoring responsibilities, he'd be behind a lot of guys, likely out of the top-20. I don't think there is a strong case to have Herro in the top-50 in the NBA.

One thing that is clear in the rankings is that there is no distinction between role players and primary players, which is how you get Lu Dort and Alex Caruso ahead of guys who have way more responsibility on the basketball court and don't have the luxury of playing off of primary players.

And that's asinine. It's why Patrick Beverly thinks he can have an opinion on Trae Young vis a vis himself

[VaDe255]

Spoiler:

I don't think it's a matter of failing. Some guys just don't think like scorers. He's simply OK with letting other guys have the ball and take the shots.

It isn't that he is happy to let others do it, he just can't scale up the volume and stay efficient, at least we're yet to see it.
What's he going to do, take 18 middies a game and a few 3s? So he can score 22 ppg?

We've seen it in the Finals vs the Nuggets he was taking 20 FGAs a game and scored 22 ppg, Nuggets were happy to just let him score at 50% TS.

He was most efficient when he was taking 11-13 FGA early once he became a starter and increased his jumper volume every year since and it's been a decline in true shooting efficiency for 5 straight years!

They were fine with Tyler scoring 20 on 17-18 shots a night for years, then they tinkered his shot diet and it led to increased scoring and efficiency. Sometimes it’s that simple, you joke about the midrange but you take a good portion of those and turn them into rim attempts and a slight increase in 3 volume and that alone could do wonders for his efficiency. Add in finding a way to sell contact better and you could get some extra free throws to help as well to go hand in hand in the rim attempts.

Although I do think it’s a lot more of a necessity for your bigs to have good playmaking next to them to get the most out of them, maybe Davion takes a step there with his increased role and not having to guess if he was going to play or not every night like the norm for his career

Asking Bam to just “take more efficient shots” ignores that the opportunities he gets are structurally different from guards/wings. He doesn’t have the handle or burst to blow by anyone but the slowest bigs and even though Spo has been starting him next to Ware, Bam isn’t a modern PF who bends defenses with gravity and shooting.

Bam’s value has always been tied to his versatility, defense, playmaking from the elbows and opportunistic scoring.

The “just shoot more 3s or attack the rim like Tyler” idea doesn’t apply to him because he isn’t a shot creator, he’s a play finisher. Unlike a guard or wing, he can’t just spam PNRs and turn those into layups. Most of his rim touches come through traffic or post-ups, not clean drives.

His 3 point shot is very basic. Tyler, for example, was #1 in miles run per game last year (tied with Maxey, Bridges, Jalen Johnson), constantly relocating for quick release C&S looks, plus he’s significantly improved his pull up game. Bam’s threes can only come off passes from someone else creating the shot, he can’t just scale that up on his own.

The only thing Bam can realistically create for himself is in the midrange, often contested. That’s why he’s best suited as a complementary scorer rather than someone you expect to carry a high volume scoring load.

[vagelis]

Spoiler:

It isn't that he is happy to let others do it, he just can't scale up the volume and stay efficient, at least we're yet to see it.
What's he going to do, take 18 middies a game and a few 3s? So he can score 22 ppg?

We've seen it in the Finals vs the Nuggets he was taking 20 FGAs a game and scored 22 ppg, Nuggets were happy to just let him score at 50% TS.

He was most efficient when he was taking 11-13 FGA early once he became a starter and increased his jumper volume every year since and it's been a decline in true shooting efficiency for 5 straight years!

They were fine with Tyler scoring 20 on 17-18 shots a night for years, then they tinkered his shot diet and it led to increased scoring and efficiency. Sometimes it’s that simple, you joke about the midrange but you take a good portion of those and turn them into rim attempts and a slight increase in 3 volume and that alone could do wonders for his efficiency. Add in finding a way to sell contact better and you could get some extra free throws to help as well to go hand in hand in the rim attempts.

Although I do think it’s a lot more of a necessity for your bigs to have good playmaking next to them to get the most out of them, maybe Davion takes a step there with his increased role and not having to guess if he was going to play or not every night like the norm for his career

Asking Bam to just “take more efficient shots” ignores that the opportunities he gets are structurally different from guards/wings. He doesn’t have the handle or burst to blow by anyone but the slowest bigs and even though Spo has been starting him next to Ware, Bam isn’t a modern PF who bends defenses with gravity and shooting.

Bam’s value has always been tied to his versatility, defense, playmaking from the elbows and opportunistic scoring.

The “just shoot more 3s or attack the rim like Tyler” idea doesn’t apply to him because he isn’t a shot creator, he’s a play finisher. Unlike a guard or wing, he can’t just spam PNRs and turn those into layups. Most of his rim touches come through traffic or post-ups, not clean drives.

His 3 point shot is very basic. Tyler, for example, was #1 in miles run per game last year (tied with Maxey, Bridges, Jalen Johnson), constantly relocating for quick release C&S looks, plus he’s significantly improved his pull up game. Bam’s threes can only come off passes from someone else creating the shot, he can’t just scale that up on his own.

The only thing Bam can realistically create for himself is in the midrange, often contested. That’s why he’s best suited as a complementary scorer rather than someone you expect to carry a high volume scoring load.

Personally I agree with this.
Adebayo is an all around player, not mainly a scorer.
He can do many things well

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Spoiler:

It isn't that he is happy to let others do it, he just can't scale up the volume and stay efficient, at least we're yet to see it.
What's he going to do, take 18 middies a game and a few 3s? So he can score 22 ppg?

We've seen it in the Finals vs the Nuggets he was taking 20 FGAs a game and scored 22 ppg, Nuggets were happy to just let him score at 50% TS.

He was most efficient when he was taking 11-13 FGA early once he became a starter and increased his jumper volume every year since and it's been a decline in true shooting efficiency for 5 straight years!

They were fine with Tyler scoring 20 on 17-18 shots a night for years, then they tinkered his shot diet and it led to increased scoring and efficiency. Sometimes it’s that simple, you joke about the midrange but you take a good portion of those and turn them into rim attempts and a slight increase in 3 volume and that alone could do wonders for his efficiency. Add in finding a way to sell contact better and you could get some extra free throws to help as well to go hand in hand in the rim attempts.

Although I do think it’s a lot more of a necessity for your bigs to have good playmaking next to them to get the most out of them, maybe Davion takes a step there with his increased role and not having to guess if he was going to play or not every night like the norm for his career

Asking Bam to just “take more efficient shots” ignores that the opportunities he gets are structurally different from guards/wings. He doesn’t have the handle or burst to blow by anyone but the slowest bigs and even though Spo has been starting him next to Ware, Bam isn’t a modern PF who bends defenses with gravity and shooting.

Bam’s value has always been tied to his versatility, defense, playmaking from the elbows and opportunistic scoring.

The “just shoot more 3s or attack the rim like Tyler” idea doesn’t apply to him because he isn’t a shot creator, he’s a play finisher. Unlike a guard or wing, he can’t just spam PNRs and turn those into layups. Most of his rim touches come through traffic or post-ups, not clean drives.

His 3 point shot is very basic. Tyler, for example, was #1 in miles run per game last year (tied with Maxey, Bridges, Jalen Johnson), constantly relocating for quick release C&S looks, plus he’s significantly improved his pull up game. Bam’s threes can only come off passes from someone else creating the shot, he can’t just scale that up on his own.

The only thing Bam can realistically create for himself is in the midrange, often contested. That’s why he’s best suited as a complementary scorer rather than someone you expect to carry a high volume scoring load.

He has a very good handle for a big and is quick. Hes been the best or 2nd best iso player on our team (for what it’s worth) for years and is tasked with creating more for himself than majority of the bigs around the league. He can absolutely put his head down and get to the rim as opposed to pulling up from mid range, it’s on him to want to do it and to finish the play. That’s where getting creative in drawing contact will help as well. They don’t have to be blow by layups/dunks, finish over someone if needed or draw a foul. Jab step left and attack right or vice versa, expect contact and finish through it and/or sell it

I agree his 3s are more set shots but although he took 3 a game last year I think we can all agree there was still several times he could’ve gotten up a 3 in the half court and didn’t, just let it fly. It’s a continued development and if he increases the volume while maintaining efficiency that’s when teams will be forced to step out and the gravity comes in place.

5 3s a night at 36%
4 midrange at 45%
7 rim or restricted area attempts at 60%
6 free throws at 77%

That’s 16 shots a night for 22PPG and a 64TS%. I don’t think any of those are outlandish expectations efficiency wise. It would just be building off his 2nd half of the season pretty much by taking higher quality shots where he was already averaging 21 a night on 60TS%

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I’m not expecting Bam to go out and get 30 a night but he can absolutely take higher quality shots when he’s forced to create for himself. He doesn’t have to settle for contested mid range jumpers and the coaching staff needs to be working on that with him.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Spoiler:

They were fine with Tyler scoring 20 on 17-18 shots a night for years, then they tinkered his shot diet and it led to increased scoring and efficiency. Sometimes it’s that simple, you joke about the midrange but you take a good portion of those and turn them into rim attempts and a slight increase in 3 volume and that alone could do wonders for his efficiency. Add in finding a way to sell contact better and you could get some extra free throws to help as well to go hand in hand in the rim attempts.

Although I do think it’s a lot more of a necessity for your bigs to have good playmaking next to them to get the most out of them, maybe Davion takes a step there with his increased role and not having to guess if he was going to play or not every night like the norm for his career

Asking Bam to just “take more efficient shots” ignores that the opportunities he gets are structurally different from guards/wings. He doesn’t have the handle or burst to blow by anyone but the slowest bigs and even though Spo has been starting him next to Ware, Bam isn’t a modern PF who bends defenses with gravity and shooting.

Bam’s value has always been tied to his versatility, defense, playmaking from the elbows and opportunistic scoring.

The “just shoot more 3s or attack the rim like Tyler” idea doesn’t apply to him because he isn’t a shot creator, he’s a play finisher. Unlike a guard or wing, he can’t just spam PNRs and turn those into layups. Most of his rim touches come through traffic or post-ups, not clean drives.

His 3 point shot is very basic. Tyler, for example, was #1 in miles run per game last year (tied with Maxey, Bridges, Jalen Johnson), constantly relocating for quick release C&S looks, plus he’s significantly improved his pull up game. Bam’s threes can only come off passes from someone else creating the shot, he can’t just scale that up on his own.

The only thing Bam can realistically create for himself is in the midrange, often contested. That’s why he’s best suited as a complementary scorer rather than someone you expect to carry a high volume scoring load.

Personally I agree with this.
Adebayo is an all around player, not mainly a scorer.
He can do many things well

Agreed but he CAN take higher quality shots and we could probably do more as a unit to help him get better looks as well.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Breakdown given for Heat players on the list

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Can Wemby win a playoff game or make the playoffs before we give him top 5 lol?

[twix2500]

Watch on YouTube

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Wonder if we could work our way into this. With Terry not working out and Herro missing the first quarter of the season pretty much Monk would make some sense for us as a bench scorer who could compete for 6MOY. His playmaking has taken a big jump too.

Still feel like we might be trying to offload Terry and whatever else for Derozan after the Kuminga trade is finalized though.

[twix2500]

Read on Twitter

Wonder if we could work our way into this. With Terry not working out and Herro missing the first quarter of the season pretty much Monk would make some sense for us as a bench scorer who could compete for 6MOY. His playmaking has taken a big jump too.

Still feel like we might be trying to offload Terry and whatever else for Derozan after the Kuminga trade is finalized though.

I tried to think of how Terry can be part of this but I highly doubt it. I think the Derozan and Monk interest ended with the addition of Powell. I think the Heat want to consolidate the roster and not add more players.