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Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0

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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1881 » by AirP. » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:13 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
AirP. wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Caleb is going to be a ton easier to move then Duncan. Duncan will continue his role as the backup SF behind Strus and Dipo.

Martin is on a great contract; I wouldn't move that unless you're offloading a bad contract to get some financial flexibility.

That's what makes Martin so tradable :lol: Have to give to get. I could see Martin as an attachment with Lowry or possibly even Duncan. Duncan and Martin equal about 20ish million in salary which is like a sweet spot for many of the players we are looking at.

But you're also losing a good player in the process. Martin's playing in the wrong position, he should be backup 2-4 and getting a ton of minutes off the bench.

The 2 of them combined is nearly 23 million meaning you could bring back as little as ~19 million cutting down 4 million potentially next season if that new contract has the same rises as the other 2 and that's not enough money to save to justify moving Martin, you might as well trade him for just draft assets and save his 6-7 million while retaining Robinson.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1882 » by AirP. » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:15 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Reports are that right now OG and Siakams asking price is too high, let’s see if that changes at all the closer we get to the deadline.

I’d be shocked if Riley isn’t blowing up Masai every day and offering Duncan Jovic and a 1st for OG as a starting point. He might even be asking about Siakam depending on how big of a splash he’s trying to make

Masai has probably had enough of Riley and most likely hangs up the moment he hears Duncan cross the phone line.


I feel like the Lowry deal could’ve been good ground work on a relationship that could help ease these talks :o

They could bring back Lowry to do a small rebuild while making the fanbase happy, move VanVleet to a 3rd team and bring expiring's back to Miami, possibly a contracted player on a smaller salary than Lowy's and possibly an asset or 2 to Toronto.

Money for next year is going to be a legit factor for a trade this season (if there is one) unless they do a small move like Strus for a 4 or 5. Teams without cap space may be interested in Yurtseven since they'd have birdrights.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1883 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:16 pm

Spoiler:
IceColdCubano wrote:Alright boyz, had some fun last night we got to watch the 2nd half of the game from a bar at the pier down in St. Pete.
There's a lot to unpack, talked about so many fcking things, but lets get down to itty bitty gritty of what yall want, Heat saucess.

1. Lets talk about the state of the Heat as an organization (Specifically why we haven't pulled the trigger on a trade or specifically the Pistons trade I was told was there for the taking), there are some upset people up and down the latter in the oranization. The owners do not feel like this team is worthy of tax implications and has given the Operations heads to go find ways of getting from under or reducing next years tax hit as the primary reason for a trade, then secondary to that improvements if they can both me. I am going to keep specifics to myself, but I will say that I was told the owners are not happy with Pat Riley, and vice versa Pat Riley is not happy with the owners.

- Owners feel like the Executive managers need to take accountability for contracts to players like Duncan, Lowry, and going all in for homerun plays missing out on the small improvement trades sitting out there, they need to be able to fix it without adding more money to salaries as currently constructed. They will not sign off on any one trade that is not considered Homerun championship caliber, any mid standard trades must involve some sort of lessening of the current salaries on the team as the number 1 priority.

- The senior executive are mad at the owners because they are in this situation because of the limitations set by them to begin with, the current structure of the team to stay under the tax is hard unless you develop undraftees and pay veterans at the tail end of their careers to squize some last bit improvement. Miami has created this development structure because the owners will not approve adding to the tax or go into repeater tax unless this comes with a superstar or real chance at winning. There have been some available opportunities in the market the last couplet of years that would have added Miami to higher tax paying numbers but could have put us in a greater position, one of those possibilities was actually during last years run, and ownership veto going for it.

- I was finally told exactly what the 10 game conversation with Spo was actually about and why he was upset, Spo is actually not happy either, he has expressed concern to Seniors about this roster. Spo says even last year the team started to show signs of being tired of playing with one another and we needed some shakeups to the roster. This year the team is actually getting worse and he is actually struggling a bit to get them focused game to game. Jimmy does not have the same fire he had the last couple years, and the tale tell sign is Jimmy doesn't go at our players anymore during live games when they do stupid things, and has been hoping Bam becomes more vocal moving forward to take on the leadership mantle. Anyways, Pat Riley told Spo to push through the next ten games to end the year strong and come out winning to help him sell to ownership this team is a trade away from being a top East team, Spo was upset because he didn't think this was possible and was gonna be looking like an escape goat come the end of the year with things not being done because he couldn't get the team in line or squiz anything anymore out of them. The consensus from the coaching staff even last year this team had some sizeable limitations but were masked by a very productive bench and Jimmy turning into God Mode in the playoffs.

- Apparently this year a lot of false hope was spread to the Heat writers and the heat staff not around the early practices about the teams internal improvements. The reality of it was the team looked abysmal in their private practices, disjointed and very unprepared the first couple of weeks with it not looking good heading into the season. The only players who truly came somewhat to show up was, Herro, Bam, Caleb, Dipo. For example Jimmy came back way too relaxed and kinda looking around like oh we running it back with the same guys minus PJ. It was also noticeable as the pre season and camp games went on that Oladipo overworked himself over the summer he started to look injured/slow again. Miami had to make a decision and pull early to let his body recover from all that training. Last tidbit of things he heard was last years executive meeting heading into 2023 end of the year operations review, Spo usually a very vocal person in these meetings was very very quiet and didn't have much to say.

2. Now lets get into current situation for trades, I asked about what Miami has in front of them as opportunities: His response was, its been quiet the last couple weeks. Miami is in a bad spot, and will need to wait for the trade deadline to get closer, and or hope for some buyouts. He reiterated that the Piston trade was vetod by Ownership because it was saving the team enough money and also the team would not get the type of improvement to be a championship contender. Duncan is pretty much one of the most un-tradeable contracts in the league at the moment. There is no market where Miami can offload him short of losing 1 FRP & a young player like Jovic and even then the teams are limited. He says there is a bigger possibility of Lowry being traded than Duncan. So there are rumblings within the staff that Pat spoke to Jimmy at the end of last season when we lost to Boston to tell Jimmy that if there's an opportunity to trade Lowry we were gonna take it. Jimmy told management to please let Lowry come back and prove them wrong, since he was in an out due to family reason to give Lowry a full year for him to show Miami what he could do. My boy thinks based on the play to date they will not give him all year since they can clearly see what Lowry is at this point.

- He said priority one is make a trade that were we can offload either Duncan/Lowry if both even better. We must also include one of Struss or Vincent if possible in outgoing trade since signing them both next year will difficult and try and get back serviceable players under multi year contracts to give Miami some wiggle room. Three team trade that was recently available in San Antonio is no longer there, Miami thinks they have an agreement with an unknown team to help shed salary with trade to happen prior to the trade deadline. The 6 teams currently listening to some of our trades request and haven't shut us down yet are: Lakers, OKC, Memphis, Indiana, Orlando, & New Orleans.

- I asked about if were planning on trading Herro for reinforcements since he is one of our better assets, he said no the team is invested in him long term, no team has asked to have him included and Miami has not put him on the trade block either. He said they wouldn't get equal value back anyways because of the salary structure.

- He also mentioned that other teams know Miami wants to compete no matter what year in year out, so teams are playing hardball knowing Miami is wanting to get something done to improve playoff chances, so the conversation starter is usually higher than what Miami would be willing to reach even half way. Also First round picks are valued way more than ever before seeing as the talent pool in the upcoming drafts are way higher than previous years.

3. There are some other cool tidbits, but they really are more team centric on the operations side. I will post those later today sitting here remembering all the sht I talked about last night. luckily I only had 6 old fashions and 1 beer so memory is pretty crisp.


This was a great read and everything my common sense hat could have imagined as to what is really going on behind the scenes between management and Riley. As for certain it seems like Lowry is going to be the one to get dealt out here. Duncan's albatross contract seems to have been the final straw for management after some previous ugly contracts that have been given out. Accountability eventually has to catch up. As of right now the team is looking at being close to over 20 million over the tax threshold once Herro's number hits. They will have until next trade deadline to get it to a manageable level.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1884 » by ShulaDon92 » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:17 pm

"The reality of it was the team looked abysmal in their private practices, disjointed and very unprepared the first couple of weeks with it not looking good heading into the season. The only players who truly came somewhat to show up was, Herro, Bam, Caleb, Dipo. For example Jimmy came back way too relaxed and kinda looking around like oh we running it back with the same guys minus PJ"

:lol:
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1885 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:20 pm

ShulaDon92 wrote:"The reality of it was the team looked abysmal in their private practices, disjointed and very unprepared the first couple of weeks with it not looking good heading into the season. The only players who truly came somewhat to show up was, Herro, Bam, Caleb, Dipo. For example Jimmy came back way too relaxed and kinda looking around like oh we running it back with the same guys minus PJ"

:lol:

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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1886 » by ShulaDon92 » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:21 pm

I apologize,guys. My longing for Vucevic should be posted in the fantasy trade thread.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1887 » by ShulaDon92 » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:24 pm

But we need that kind of energy on our squad. That bruiser energy. We know it, jimmy knows it, theres a whole small town in south dakota that knows it.

Motherlovin management better do something about it.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1888 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:27 pm

Thanks for the info ICC, I love the 6 teams you listed.

Get the damn Indy deal done and compete please.

Duncan Lowry Jovic Gabe and 2 1sts for Turner Buddy and Brisset. A 2nd for Dragic. If you absolutely have to have expirings find a high level expiring in place of Buddy.

Dipo/Dragic
Herro/Strus
Jimmy/Martin
Bam/Brissett
Turner/Orlando (Yurt if/when healthy or go all in and get Naz)

We can get something done here! There’s no way ownership can deny this move makes us legit contenders. There’s no denying that
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1889 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:28 pm

ShulaDon92 wrote:I apologize,guys. My longing for Vucevic should be posted in the fantasy trade thread.

Really hoping we get Vucevic as well as the cost i think is in our wheel house. Lowry to the Bulls with DeRozan for one last dance also makes for a good story.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1890 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:29 pm

ShulaDon92 wrote:I apologize,guys. My longing for Vucevic should be posted in the fantasy trade thread.


Not necessarily, he’s an expiring contract. That’s what we’re looking for.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1891 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:30 pm

Idk what we could be trying to do with OKC, Pelicans, Memphis, or the lakers but I see the vision with Orlando and Indy.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1892 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:32 pm

Expirings:

DLo
KP
Turner
Vuc
FVV
Barnes
Grant
Wood
Trent Jr
Kuzma
Ross
Pat Bev
Brooks
Oubre
Hart

Tons more too
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1893 » by AirP. » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:34 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:Alright boyz, had some fun last night we got to watch the 2nd half of the game from a bar at the pier down in St. Pete.
There's a lot to unpack, talked about so many fcking things, but lets get down to itty bitty gritty of what yall want, Heat saucess.

Spoiler:
1. Lets talk about the state of the Heat as an organization (Specifically why we haven't pulled the trigger on a trade or specifically the Pistons trade I was told was there for the taking), there are some upset people up and down the latter in the oranization. The owners do not feel like this team is worthy of tax implications and has given the Operations heads to go find ways of getting from under or reducing next years tax hit as the primary reason for a trade, then secondary to that improvements if they can both me. I am going to keep specifics to myself, but I will say that I was told the owners are not happy with Pat Riley, and vice versa Pat Riley is not happy with the owners.

- Owners feel like the Executive managers need to take accountability for contracts to players like Duncan, Lowry, and going all in for homerun plays missing out on the small improvement trades sitting out there, they need to be able to fix it without adding more money to salaries as currently constructed. They will not sign off on any one trade that is not considered Homerun championship caliber, any mid standard trades must involve some sort of lessening of the current salaries on the team as the number 1 priority.

- The senior executive are mad at the owners because they are in this situation because of the limitations set by them to begin with, the current structure of the team to stay under the tax is hard unless you develop undraftees and pay veterans at the tail end of their careers to squize some last bit improvement. Miami has created this development structure because the owners will not approve adding to the tax or go into repeater tax unless this comes with a superstar or real chance at winning. There have been some available opportunities in the market the last couplet of years that would have added Miami to higher tax paying numbers but could have put us in a greater position, one of those possibilities was actually during last years run, and ownership veto going for it.

- I was finally told exactly what the 10 game conversation with Spo was actually about and why he was upset, Spo is actually not happy either, he has expressed concern to Seniors about this roster. Spo says even last year the team started to show signs of being tired of playing with one another and we needed some shakeups to the roster. This year the team is actually getting worse and he is actually struggling a bit to get them focused game to game. Jimmy does not have the same fire he had the last couple years, and the tale tell sign is Jimmy doesn't go at our players anymore during live games when they do stupid things, and has been hoping Bam becomes more vocal moving forward to take on the leadership mantle. Anyways, Pat Riley told Spo to push through the next ten games to end the year strong and come out winning to help him sell to ownership this team is a trade away from being a top East team, Spo was upset because he didn't think this was possible and was gonna be looking like an escape goat come the end of the year with things not being done because he couldn't get the team in line or squiz anything anymore out of them. The consensus from the coaching staff even last year this team had some sizeable limitations but were masked by a very productive bench and Jimmy turning into God Mode in the playoffs.

- Apparently this year a lot of false hope was spread to the Heat writers and the heat staff not around the early practices about the teams internal improvements. The reality of it was the team looked abysmal in their private practices, disjointed and very unprepared the first couple of weeks with it not looking good heading into the season. The only players who truly came somewhat to show up was, Herro, Bam, Caleb, Dipo. For example Jimmy came back way too relaxed and kinda looking around like oh we running it back with the same guys minus PJ. It was also noticeable as the pre season and camp games went on that Oladipo overworked himself over the summer he started to look injured/slow again. Miami had to make a decision and pull early to let his body recover from all that training. Last tidbit of things he heard was last years executive meeting heading into 2023 end of the year operations review, Spo usually a very vocal person in these meetings was very very quiet and didn't have much to say.

2. Now lets get into current situation for trades, I asked about what Miami has in front of them as opportunities: His response was, its been quiet the last couple weeks. Miami is in a bad spot, and will need to wait for the trade deadline to get closer, and or hope for some buyouts. He reiterated that the Piston trade was vetod by Ownership because it was saving the team enough money and also the team would not get the type of improvement to be a championship contender. Duncan is pretty much one of the most un-tradeable contracts in the league at the moment. There is no market where Miami can offload him short of losing 1 FRP & a young player like Jovic and even then the teams are limited. He says there is a bigger possibility of Lowry being traded than Duncan. So there are rumblings within the staff that Pat spoke to Jimmy at the end of last season when we lost to Boston to tell Jimmy that if there's an opportunity to trade Lowry we were gonna take it. Jimmy told management to please let Lowry come back and prove them wrong, since he was in an out due to family reason to give Lowry a full year for him to show Miami what he could do. My boy thinks based on the play to date they will not give him all year since they can clearly see what Lowry is at this point.

- He said priority one is make a trade that were we can offload either Duncan/Lowry if both even better. We must also include one of Struss or Vincent if possible in outgoing trade since signing them both next year will difficult and try and get back serviceable players under multi year contracts to give Miami some wiggle room. Three team trade that was recently available in San Antonio is no longer there, Miami thinks they have an agreement with an unknown team to help shed salary with trade to happen prior to the trade deadline. The 6 teams currently listening to some of our trades request and haven't shut us down yet are: Lakers, OKC, Memphis, Indiana, Orlando, & New Orleans.

- I asked about if were planning on trading Herro for reinforcements since he is one of our better assets, he said no the team is invested in him long term, no team has asked to have him included and Miami has not put him on the trade block either. He said they wouldn't get equal value back anyways because of the salary structure.

- He also mentioned that other teams know Miami wants to compete no matter what year in year out, so teams are playing hardball knowing Miami is wanting to get something done to improve playoff chances, so the conversation starter is usually higher than what Miami would be willing to reach even half way. Also First round picks are valued way more than ever before seeing as the talent pool in the upcoming drafts are way higher than previous years.

3. There are some other cool tidbits, but they really are more team centric on the operations side. I will post those later today sitting here remembering all the sht I talked about last night. luckily I only had 6 old fashions and 1 beer so memory is pretty crisp.

***EDIT*** forgot to mention about conversation about size and Jovic in the starting lineup I asked about:
4. I asked why Jovic is getting such a cold shoulder treatment from Spo, he said Spo loves Jovic and has some pretty amazing ideas to incorporate using him, unfortunately this is not the year, he wants to twinkle with the offensive game plan to introduce Jovic there. He can definitely see him and Bam playing along side each other. The teams priority is to get Bam involved as the primary offensive talent where the offense runs through him, the coaching staff feels like Jovic can also do those things but would have prevented Bam from growing this year and learning to hold that mantle by himself. Spo is also slowly introducing different playsets he couldn't incorporate all in training camp. Additionally he said, Jovic may seem skilled to us but the crazy thing is he is very unpolished in a lot of areas and coaching staff knows this, the team knows that 2-3 years from now Jovic could look like a world class talent, but they need to nurture that slowly.


Sounds like Butler and the owner is losing faith in the FO which they should for everything they've blundered since acquiring Butler which is really just the 2021 plan that the roster is still dealing with. I would guess both were sold the 2021 plan, that didn't work out and to try to save face the FO overpaid for Lowry which hasn't really worked out. If you're Butler and you're looking at this roster, it looks like once again the FO has gone with a youth movement vs go for it (outside overpaying Lowry which was bad).

So... with everything mentioned by ICC, it makes even more sense why this FO put the brakes on everything this summer to have a chance to acquire KD because they knew it was really the best chance for this rosters (since the owner would go over the cap for a superstar).


Hate to say this but acquiring Westbrook would really shake up the roster and may light a fire to Butler in the regular season all while offloading salary. It's possible to move a package of Lowry and Duncan to LA for Westbrook. For LA it would help them this year, next year and give them smaller moveable contracts to combine with picks to get better players, not to mention Lowry's expiring next year (much lower than Westbrook's this year) could help them too. Irving's not going to sign as a FA in LA, at best he'll be S&T by the Nets and Lowry's expiring could help that happen.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1894 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:37 pm

Read on Twitter


This is wrong but it’s weird to see so few 20-10 guys. Julius is also 20-10. Crazy Embiid doesn’t average 10
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1895 » by IceColdCubano » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:38 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is wrong but it’s weird to see so few 20-10 guys. Julius is also 20-10. Crazy Embiid doesn’t average 10

If he gets that FG% and Rebounding numbers up, he will win MIP for sure.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1896 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:38 pm

Pelicans have very trade able pieces that we can siphon to a 3rd team if they make a play for Lowry. Graham, Nance Jr, Hayes, and Temple. Pels wanted Lowry bad when he was a free agent.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1897 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:42 pm

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This team will take another step simply by noticing Bam needs 20 shots a night. The offense will be better from it and he’ll adjust to it. Shooters will find themselves open more because defenses will be forced to collapse because there’s not many good matchups for bam in the league.


Bam at 20 shots is giving you 26+ a night, especially if he starts getting some respect from the refs.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1898 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:42 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
ShulaDon92 wrote:I apologize,guys. My longing for Vucevic should be posted in the fantasy trade thread.


Not necessarily, he’s an expiring contract. That’s what we’re looking for.

Expiring contracts that we could affordably fit into our salary structure if we need to resign them. I don’t put a player like Turner under this category. It sounds like he’s demanding Ayton money. Vucevic makes a lot of sense cause at his age he should be reasonable to resign.
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1899 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:45 pm

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Basketball gods please let this man finally be over the injury bug. Let him live his life long dream of playing high level basketball for the Miami Heat and hopefully win a championship with them.

This is the exact high level production I expected from him when he took over Tyler’s 6MOY role. There’s one of our massive holes filled, now make the moves to help the others
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Re: Miami Heat 22-23 Regular Season Thread 2.0 

Post#1900 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:47 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
ShulaDon92 wrote:I apologize,guys. My longing for Vucevic should be posted in the fantasy trade thread.


Not necessarily, he’s an expiring contract. That’s what we’re looking for.

Expiring contracts that we could affordably fit into our salary structure if we need to resign them. I don’t put a player like Turner under this category. It sounds like he’s demanding Ayton money. Vucevic makes a lot of sense cause at his age he should be reasonable to resign.


Adding Vuc Dragic and Naz would fix a lot if not all of our issues. You could maybe work in 1 more deal there for a high level role player if you needed to sell ownership on this team being able to win it all
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