Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 3.0

[broke]

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Charlotte showing alot of class with this one, team was bad but they’re obviously very connected. Nice to see

Agree, classy move by the Hornets. Always had a soft spot for the Hornets org going back to when I was a kid I loved their uniform colours. As long as it's not against us I do hope they do well

[Bishop45]

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[SerialChiller]

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Watching that made me miss him more haha....can't wait to watch him play again! I'm gonna guess he'll miss these next 2 back to back games and we'll see him after that.

[Hallstar]

Hell no. Why are people so keen to ship Herro off for next to nothing?

Desperation cause nobody wants to mention Duncan in a trade. He really has turned untouchable with the majority of the fan base. Herro ain’t going anywhere

To be fair Duncan led more to winning this season compared to Herro. Showed up last playoffs as well and improved on his defense and driving. We give credit where it's due.

Herro gotta show up big in these playoffs. He hasn't shown up in the playoffs since his rookie season in the bubble.

And this is coming from the biggest Duncan hater these past 3 seasons.

I don't remember us getting to 8 games over .500 til Herro came back.

It was all good just a week ago.

Funny how it works, if Herro came back into the lineup and we didn't crack 100 in 3 games it would be his fault.

[marson]

Desperation cause nobody wants to mention Duncan in a trade. He really has turned untouchable with the majority of the fan base. Herro ain’t going anywhere

To be fair Duncan led more to winning this season compared to Herro. Showed up last playoffs as well and improved on his defense and driving. We give credit where it's due.

Herro gotta show up big in these playoffs. He hasn't shown up in the playoffs since his rookie season in the bubble.

And this is coming from the biggest Duncan hater these past 3 seasons.

I don't remember us getting to 8 games over .500 til Herro came back.

It was all good just a week ago.

Funny how it works, if Herro came back into the lineup and we didn't crack 100 in 3 games it would be his fault.

No one is discrediting Tyler Herro's RS games in this post.

He just gotta show up in the playoffs and big moments when it matters and the last time he did it was 4 years ago.

Also, The evidence supporting this change is extensive – our performance metrics, such as net rating, consistently show improvement when Duncan is in the starting lineup. Notably, our overall record also reflects better outcomes when Duncan is the starter.

Examining our most successful pairings and lineups reveals that Herro is not consistently part of them. This is not to diminish Herro's abilities; rather, it suggests that his compatibility with the team is questionable. Assigning him to a bench role may actually enhance his offensive capabilities by providing him with more freedom. It's worth noting that despite taking four more shots per game, Herro's scoring is only marginally higher than Bam's by 0.5 points on average.

[marson]

I don't understand why some people find this confusing. Duncan and Herro are different players, much like peas and carrots. Duncan and Bam have a special chemistry, especially with Duncan's off-ball prowess and the effectiveness of the Bam pick-and-roll. While Herro excels as a sixth man, his strengths within the offensive flow don't match Duncan's.

Allow Duncan to showcase his off-ball magic and work with Bam in the pick-and-roll while letting Herro shine leading the second unit. It's not meant as disrespect; it's simply about maximizing each player's strengths. Unfortunately, some folks here often misconstrue coming off the bench as a form of massive disrespect, but it's really about strategic team dynamics.

I expect a struggle between shot-sharing when Scary Terry starts and play hopefully tomorrow.

[BBallFreak]

I don't understand why some people find this confusing. Duncan and Herro are different players, much like peas and carrots. Duncan and Bam have a special chemistry, especially with Duncan's off-ball prowess and the effectiveness of the Bam pick-and-roll. While Herro excels as a sixth man, his strengths within the offensive flow don't match Duncan's.

Allow Duncan to showcase his off-ball magic and work with Bam in the pick-and-roll while letting Herro shine leading the second unit. It's not meant as disrespect; it's simply about maximizing each player's strengths. Unfortunately, some folks here often misconstrue coming off the bench as a form of massive disrespect, but it's really about strategic team dynamics.

I expect a struggle between shot-sharing when Scary Terry starts and play hopefully tomorrow.

This post is perfection.

The only reason I've suggested trading Herro is to avoid the second tax apron, because we have enough depth to have quality players on the court without him, and because Duncan is so fantastic with our starters. I think he, Bam, and Rozier would fit offensively but I see issues with he and Herro playing together.

If he would be comfortable coming off the bench, I could see it working but he's made it clear that he won't. Maybe Spo sits him down and tells it like it is and convinces him, but I don't see him willing to take the Manu Ginobili role, as much as he really should.

And then we come to the second tax apron, which is a problem some in here are willing to ignore but I guarantee you the team will not. Trading Herro represents our easiest way to get out of that situation while also fortifying our frontcourt. You may not like my trades, but they make practical, long-term sense while not hurting the team...

[Beenie]

Dinwiddie, DFS, pick for Herro and Martin

Hell no. Why are people so keen to ship Herro off for next to nothing?

Marson explained.

He’s expensive and he’s incompatible with the starters, simple as that.

I like Herro and I’m a fan but it seems obvious at this point in time that he’s a misfit.

[marson]

We may be reacting too strongly to the situation, considering that Herro now has a backcourt partner who can handle the point guard responsibilities, allowing him to assume a role similar to Klay Thompson or Duncan. I recommend checking out the most recent podcast by Zach Lowe, where he discusses his desire for Tyler to adopt a Klay Thompson-like role for optimal effectiveness.

Start listening at the 15:56 mark.

Watch on YouTube

[Kobewade11]

I don't remember us getting to 8 games over .500 til Herro came back.

It was all good just a week ago.

Funny how it works, if Herro came back into the lineup and we didn't crack 100 in 3 games it would be his fault.

Board got a hard on for Duncan

[Hallstar]

To be fair Duncan led more to winning this season compared to Herro. Showed up last playoffs as well and improved on his defense and driving. We give credit where it's due.

Herro gotta show up big in these playoffs. He hasn't shown up in the playoffs since his rookie season in the bubble.

And this is coming from the biggest Duncan hater these past 3 seasons.

I don't remember us getting to 8 games over .500 til Herro came back.

It was all good just a week ago.

Funny how it works, if Herro came back into the lineup and we didn't crack 100 in 3 games it would be his fault.

No one is discrediting Tyler Herro's RS games in this post.

He just gotta show up in the playoffs and big moments when it matters and the last time he did it was 4 years ago.

Also, The evidence supporting this change is extensive – our performance metrics, such as net rating, consistently show improvement when Duncan is in the starting lineup. Notably, our overall record also reflects better outcomes when Duncan is the starter.

Examining our most successful pairings and lineups reveals that Herro is not consistently part of them. This is not to diminish Herro's abilities; rather, it suggests that his compatibility with the team is questionable. Assigning him to a bench role may actually enhance his offensive capabilities by providing him with more freedom. It's worth noting that despite taking four more shots per game, Herro's scoring is only marginally higher than Bam's by 0.5 points on average.

I'm not about to argue this. Duncan was half way out of town every game last year, now he has "lead to winning". We don't know what we have until JImmy is showing up consistently. That also affects how the other players play.

[marson]

I don't remember us getting to 8 games over .500 til Herro came back.

It was all good just a week ago.

Funny how it works, if Herro came back into the lineup and we didn't crack 100 in 3 games it would be his fault.

No one is discrediting Tyler Herro's RS games in this post.

He just gotta show up in the playoffs and big moments when it matters and the last time he did it was 4 years ago.

Also, The evidence supporting this change is extensive – our performance metrics, such as net rating, consistently show improvement when Duncan is in the starting lineup. Notably, our overall record also reflects better outcomes when Duncan is the starter.

Examining our most successful pairings and lineups reveals that Herro is not consistently part of them. This is not to diminish Herro's abilities; rather, it suggests that his compatibility with the team is questionable. Assigning him to a bench role may actually enhance his offensive capabilities by providing him with more freedom. It's worth noting that despite taking four more shots per game, Herro's scoring is only marginally higher than Bam's by 0.5 points on average.

I'm not about to argue this. Duncan was half way out of town every game last year, now he has "lead to winning". We don't know what we have until JImmy is showing up consistently. That also affects how the other players play.

Could you share a statistic or metric that demonstrates Herro's strong performance when playing alongside the starting lineup?

[VaDe255]

No one is discrediting Tyler Herro's RS games in this post.

He just gotta show up in the playoffs and big moments when it matters and the last time he did it was 4 years ago.

Also, The evidence supporting this change is extensive – our performance metrics, such as net rating, consistently show improvement when Duncan is in the starting lineup. Notably, our overall record also reflects better outcomes when Duncan is the starter.

Examining our most successful pairings and lineups reveals that Herro is not consistently part of them. This is not to diminish Herro's abilities; rather, it suggests that his compatibility with the team is questionable. Assigning him to a bench role may actually enhance his offensive capabilities by providing him with more freedom. It's worth noting that despite taking four more shots per game, Herro's scoring is only marginally higher than Bam's by 0.5 points on average.

I'm not about to argue this. Duncan was half way out of town every game last year, now he has "lead to winning". We don't know what we have until JImmy is showing up consistently. That also affects how the other players play.

Could you share a statistic or metric that demonstrates Herro's strong performance when playing alongside the starting lineup?

What's the point? Everyone is just cherry picking samples/stats to support their narratives. It's very unlikely anyone here knows how to analyze the data properly, it has a lot of variance and a lot of noise in it.

Some are already posting how Terry is 39% on pull up 3s this season and celebrating like this is what he is going to be. This is so not what can be expected from him, when he is < 35% for his career.

It's all just narratives and it is quite frankly very annoying how these are pushed with very naive and often cherry picked stats samples.

You'd think a well paid professional coaching staff, who observes their players daily, does film analysis and looks at the analytic numbers knows what it is doing.

[Pokuokic]

If the Heat allow Rozier to actually be the point instead of Herro it's a good move but if it's split than that's terrible, the bench with Herro and JJJ would give other teams nightmares. It will be interesting how JJJ role changes now (more so than Herro) maybe playing off the bench (ala Ginobili) for more touches.

[marson]

I'm not about to argue this. Duncan was half way out of town every game last year, now he has "lead to winning". We don't know what we have until JImmy is showing up consistently. That also affects how the other players play.

Could you share a statistic or metric that demonstrates Herro's strong performance when playing alongside the starting lineup?

What's the point? Everyone is just cherry picking samples/stats to support their narratives. It's very unlikely anyone here knows how to analyze the data properly, it has a lot of variance and a lot of noise in it.

Some are already posting how Terry is 39% on pull up 3s this season and celebrating like this is what he is going to be. This is so not what can be expected from him, when he is < 35% for his career.

It's all just narratives and it is quite frankly very annoying how these are pushed with very naive and often cherry picked stats samples.

You'd think a well paid professional coaching staff, who observes their players daily, does film analysis and looks at the analytic numbers knows what it is doing.

It's a basketball forum focused on sharing factual information, metrics, and statistics. I'm not sure why there's frustration about this.

[Wiltside]

We may be reacting too strongly to the situation, considering that Herro now has a backcourt partner who can handle the point guard responsibilities, allowing him to assume a role similar to Klay Thompson or Duncan. I recommend checking out the most recent podcast by Zach Lowe, where he discusses his desire for Tyler to adopt a Klay Thompson-like role for optimal effectiveness.

Start listening at the 15:56 mark.

Watch on YouTube

I don’t disagree with his comment. I’d like to see Herro focused a bit more as a spot up threat and movement shooter than a dribble dribble iso guy. I think he can be very effective in that role. Ultimately the coaching staff needs to figure it out.

[Kobewade11]

If the Heat allow Rozier to actually be the point instead of Herro it's a good move but if it's split than that's terrible, the bench with Herro and JJJ would give other teams nightmares. It will be interesting how JJJ role changes now (more so than Herro) maybe playing off the bench (ala Ginobili) for more touches.

I’m pretty sure they acquired him to be the point, because they got nothing from the previous point..hence why so many other players had to moonlight in that role. As I said yesterday, this type of acquisition is why Spo got the extension he did. He’s going to put guys in the best position, everyone said he needed more talent to work with - well he’s got it now.

[HEATVols865]

I like the Rozier move because he’s playing like Dame and defends better. It’s like we got our man without getting our man.

What I don’t like is that I think we gave up too much for him. A FRP hurts but if he comes in and jells, then maybe it’s a fleece job.

Bam / Love / Robinson
Jovic / Highsmith / Bryant
Butler / JJJ / Cain
Herro / Caleb / Duncan / Swider
Rozier / J-Rich / Hampton

If we won’t resign Caleb if he opts out (will he since he’s a shell of the player he was last two seasons?) we need to flip him for a PF. Jovic is too raw, Highsmith is too short (6’5), playing Caleb at the 4 has clearly destroyed his body.
We got better, but our 4 spot is still our weakness and I’m afraid we traded away assets that could land us a 4.

[marson]

We may be reacting too strongly to the situation, considering that Herro now has a backcourt partner who can handle the point guard responsibilities, allowing him to assume a role similar to Klay Thompson or Duncan. I recommend checking out the most recent podcast by Zach Lowe, where he discusses his desire for Tyler to adopt a Klay Thompson-like role for optimal effectiveness.

Start listening at the 15:56 mark.

Watch on YouTube

I don’t disagree with his comment. I’d like to see Herro focused a bit more as a spot up threat and movement shooter than a dribble dribble iso guy. I think he can be very effective in that role. Ultimately the coaching staff needs to figure it out.

There's a potential opportunity for Herro. Bosh and Wade made strategic adjustments to their playing styles to secure consecutive titles. It's about making sacrifices and understanding one's role. We'll observe how things unfold.

[MartyConlonJr]

I am in no way saying Rozier is equal to Dame, and I am definitely one to question stats on bad teams where the other teams defensive effort may not be there, but I was amazed to compare their current season and see just how identical their stats are. And that goes for almost every stat including advanced (other than WS because Charlotte ain't winning). Most of the difference (again, statistically) is Dame gets to the line at twice the rate.

Can only hope Roziers numbers translate on a winning team rather than being fools gold. The talk around him sounds like he has a winners mentality, so we'll see