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**NBA Draft Discussion 2024**

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1921 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:17 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:It's ok to draft backups but why draft a projected long term backup when you know Bam is probably going to be here for another 10 years. Why would you draft someone who can't share the floor with him for long stretches. This has been this teams Achilles heel from the big spot since KO left. We wasted roster spots on Thomas Bryant and Orlando Robinson when Spo never even remotely tried to play them with Bam. He even gave up on playing Love with Bam cause he was too slow and relegated him to backup Center. Make it make sense


I don't follow the confusion here. The literal solution to a big next to bam is already here, Jovic. He's already doing the whole Kelly O thing and getting better. If big men on our team can't out perform Jovic on offense & defense, they ain't playing over him.

Thomas Byrant is on the team, because at the time we had been dealing with old vet centers wearing down by the time the playoffs came. He's still youngish, has some offensive versatility, and was the best back up C available at the time. That's a much better reclamation project than usual for us. If he really hit, he might have been able to start eventually, which just gives us much more positional versatility.

Orlando Robinson is on the team because the back up C position has always been shaky, he must have shown some great strides at improvement the last offseason, and he's still young. Who knows how good he'll be in the coming seasons, he might even compete with whatever center we draft this year.

However both didn't end up playing much because Jovic unexpectantly improved enough over the season to deserve to a starting spot next Bam. And Klove, even at age 35, was still more steady on defense than either of them, along with replicating most of what they could bring on offense. So to the bench they go. And I support this, because watching them play this season showed how dire they still were there.

You draft someone that has potential to play with both Bam and Jovic is what i’m trying to stress here. When Bam is out you have someone who can slide to the Center spot and do Center things. When Bam is in can stretch the floor. Don’t pigeon hole yourself to just drafting a backup Center who can’t play with Bam. You can get a strick backup non shooting Center in the second round. I would also be fine with a thick small ball 4 that can slide Jovic to stretch 5. Someone in the Crowder/Tucker mold. Kel’el Ware has that potential to play with both Bam and Jovic.

100%

In a vacuum I really like some of these athletic Centers like Bona and Missy, but as long as Bam is here it makes no sense to invest considerable resource into adding any non shooting bigs.

The game is going in the direction of 5 out offense, meaning every offensive player as a 3 point shooter.
You can still a C whos a non shooter if he's great on defense (like Bam) but you can't play 2 non shooters next to each other and expect a top 10 offense.

Ware and Filipowski are the only Centers that MIGHT work next to Bam due to their shooting. And even them would be somewhat risky picks because if the outside shot doesn't translate, you've wasted a high pick on a player with no path to get more then 14 minutes per game - that's just wasteful resource management.

picking a non shooting C at #43 is much more justifiable, because for some reason we couldn't develop a decent bench guy or get a decent vet minimum C for a while now.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1922 » by twix2500 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:33 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
I don't follow the confusion here. The literal solution to a big next to bam is already here, Jovic. He's already doing the whole Kelly O thing and getting better. If big men on our team can't out perform Jovic on offense & defense, they ain't playing over him.

Thomas Byrant is on the team, because at the time we had been dealing with old vet centers wearing down by the time the playoffs came. He's still youngish, has some offensive versatility, and was the best back up C available at the time. That's a much better reclamation project than usual for us. If he really hit, he might have been able to start eventually, which just gives us much more positional versatility.

Orlando Robinson is on the team because the back up C position has always been shaky, he must have shown some great strides at improvement the last offseason, and he's still young. Who knows how good he'll be in the coming seasons, he might even compete with whatever center we draft this year.

However both didn't end up playing much because Jovic unexpectantly improved enough over the season to deserve to a starting spot next Bam. And Klove, even at age 35, was still more steady on defense than either of them, along with replicating most of what they could bring on offense. So to the bench they go. And I support this, because watching them play this season showed how dire they still were there.

You draft someone that has potential to play with both Bam and Jovic is what i’m trying to stress here. When Bam is out you have someone who can slide to the Center spot and do Center things. When Bam is in can stretch the floor. Don’t pigeon hole yourself to just drafting a backup Center who can’t play with Bam. You can get a strick backup non shooting Center in the second round. I would also be fine with a thick small ball 4 that can slide Jovic to stretch 5. Someone in the Crowder/Tucker mold. Kel’el Ware has that potential to play with both Bam and Jovic.

100%

In a vacuum I really like some of these athletic Centers like Bona and Missy, but as long as Bam is here it makes no sense to invest considerable resource into adding any non shooting bigs.

The game is going in the direction of 5 out offense, meaning every offensive player as a 3 point shooter.
You can still a C whos a non shooter if he's great on defense (like Bam) but you can't play 2 non shooters next to each other and expect a top 10 offense.

Ware and Filipowski are the only Centers that MIGHT work next to Bam due to their shooting. And even them would be somewhat risky picks because if the outside shot doesn't translate, you've wasted a high pick on a player with no path to get more then 14 minutes per game - that's just wasteful resource management.

picking a non shooting C at #43 is much more justifiable, because for some reason we couldn't develop a decent bench guy or get a decent vet minimum C for a while now.
Currently constructed you really believe a rook is gonna be a rotation player?

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1923 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:38 pm

twix2500 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:You draft someone that has potential to play with both Bam and Jovic is what i’m trying to stress here. When Bam is out you have someone who can slide to the Center spot and do Center things. When Bam is in can stretch the floor. Don’t pigeon hole yourself to just drafting a backup Center who can’t play with Bam. You can get a strick backup non shooting Center in the second round. I would also be fine with a thick small ball 4 that can slide Jovic to stretch 5. Someone in the Crowder/Tucker mold. Kel’el Ware has that potential to play with both Bam and Jovic.

100%

In a vacuum I really like some of these athletic Centers like Bona and Missy, but as long as Bam is here it makes no sense to invest considerable resource into adding any non shooting bigs.

The game is going in the direction of 5 out offense, meaning every offensive player as a 3 point shooter.
You can still a C whos a non shooter if he's great on defense (like Bam) but you can't play 2 non shooters next to each other and expect a top 10 offense.

Ware and Filipowski are the only Centers that MIGHT work next to Bam due to their shooting. And even them would be somewhat risky picks because if the outside shot doesn't translate, you've wasted a high pick on a player with no path to get more then 14 minutes per game - that's just wasteful resource management.

picking a non shooting C at #43 is much more justifiable, because for some reason we couldn't develop a decent bench guy or get a decent vet minimum C for a while now.
Currently constructed you really believe a rook is gonna be a rotation player?

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With the expected loss of Highsmith and Martin we made need them too be. JJJ was able to come in day one and get into the rotation. You also want to draft with the hopes too that there is a vision that they hopefully in the next year or two can be. Why draft an non shooting Center when you know Bam is going to be a fixture at the Center spot here so here negating that vision they could one day start and make an impact getting good quality minutes even off the bench. I could make a case for any other spot to draft even a SF/SG but drafting a non compliant center who can't share the floor with Bam is an absolute misguided use of a high end pick resourse like Rex said. If we draft a big let's atleast draft one with the potential to be a bigman version of a 6th man able to easily play the 4/5 with both Bam and Jovic. Even push Jovic to continue to get better and compete for that 4 spot.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1924 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:46 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1925 » by lastb1ckman » Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:49 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
I don't follow the confusion here. The literal solution to a big next to bam is already here, Jovic. He's already doing the whole Kelly O thing and getting better. If big men on our team can't out perform Jovic on offense & defense, they ain't playing over him.

Thomas Byrant is on the team, because at the time we had been dealing with old vet centers wearing down by the time the playoffs came. He's still youngish, has some offensive versatility, and was the best back up C available at the time. That's a much better reclamation project than usual for us. If he really hit, he might have been able to start eventually, which just gives us much more positional versatility.

Orlando Robinson is on the team because the back up C position has always been shaky, he must have shown some great strides at improvement the last offseason, and he's still young. Who knows how good he'll be in the coming seasons, he might even compete with whatever center we draft this year.

However both didn't end up playing much because Jovic unexpectantly improved enough over the season to deserve to a starting spot next Bam. And Klove, even at age 35, was still more steady on defense than either of them, along with replicating most of what they could bring on offense. So to the bench they go. And I support this, because watching them play this season showed how dire they still were there.

You draft someone that has potential to play with both Bam and Jovic is what i’m trying to stress here. When Bam is out you have someone who can slide to the Center spot and do Center things. When Bam is in can stretch the floor. Don’t pigeon hole yourself to just drafting a backup Center who can’t play with Bam. You can get a strick backup non shooting Center in the second round. I would also be fine with a thick small ball 4 that can slide Jovic to stretch 5. Someone in the Crowder/Tucker mold. Kel’el Ware has that potential to play with both Bam and Jovic.

100%

In a vacuum I really like some of these athletic Centers like Bona and Missy, but as long as Bam is here it makes no sense to invest considerable resource into adding any non shooting bigs.

The game is going in the direction of 5 out offense, meaning every offensive player as a 3 point shooter.
You can still a C whos a non shooter if he's great on defense (like Bam) but you can't play 2 non shooters next to each other and expect a top 10 offense.

Ware and Filipowski are the only Centers that MIGHT work next to Bam due to their shooting. And even them would be somewhat risky picks because if the outside shot doesn't translate, you've wasted a high pick on a player with no path to get more then 14 minutes per game - that's just wasteful resource management.

picking a non shooting C at #43 is much more justifiable, because for some reason we couldn't develop a decent bench guy or get a decent vet minimum C for a while now.


I think its because finding decent centers is hard. Looking at the list of active centers in the league, most of them aren't switch heavy stretch 5s. Its more traditional at that position that a lot of fans seem to realize. Lots of 6-10 to 7 footers that most play in drop. The ones that do switch all the time or stretch the floor truely are stars.
https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Also, the majority of them were 1st rounders, which suggests to even become a decent back up there needs to be some real talent there. Most of them aren't 2nd rounders or undrafted players the teams molded into players. You CAN find good back ups there, but its hard. There's only a couple at any time.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1926 » by twix2500 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:20 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:100%

In a vacuum I really like some of these athletic Centers like Bona and Missy, but as long as Bam is here it makes no sense to invest considerable resource into adding any non shooting bigs.

The game is going in the direction of 5 out offense, meaning every offensive player as a 3 point shooter.
You can still a C whos a non shooter if he's great on defense (like Bam) but you can't play 2 non shooters next to each other and expect a top 10 offense.

Ware and Filipowski are the only Centers that MIGHT work next to Bam due to their shooting. And even them would be somewhat risky picks because if the outside shot doesn't translate, you've wasted a high pick on a player with no path to get more then 14 minutes per game - that's just wasteful resource management.

picking a non shooting C at #43 is much more justifiable, because for some reason we couldn't develop a decent bench guy or get a decent vet minimum C for a while now.
Currently constructed you really believe a rook is gonna be a rotation player?

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With the expected loss of Highsmith and Martin we made need them too be. JJJ was able to come in day one and get into the rotation. You also want to draft with the hopes too that there is a vision that they hopefully in the next year or two can be. Why draft an non shooting Center when you know Bam is going to be a fixture at the Center spot here so here negating that vision they could one day start and make an impact getting good quality minutes even off the bench. I could make a case for any other spot to draft even a SF/SG but drafting a non compliant center who can't share the floor with Bam is an absolute misguided use of a high end pick resourse like Rex said. If we draft a big let's atleast draft one with the potential to be a bigman version of a 6th man able to easily play the 4/5 with both Bam and Jovic. Even push Jovic to continue to get better and compete for that 4 spot.


There was a forward position open when the season started. Once Jovic moved into the starting position and everyone was healthy, Highsmith was out of the rotation. And Jovic only got mins at all because of injury. If the season started today excluding Martin and keeping Highsmith, Highsmith would just be a situation player and would only get into the rotation if a player gets hurt. One has to expect Jovic and Jaquez minutes are going to dramatically increase. And Spo has been prepping Jovic to play center to replace the aging Love.

PG: Rozier - Herro
SG: Robinson - Richardson
SF: Butler - Jaquez Jr
PF: Jovic
Ce: Adebayo - Love

That's fills spo 9 man rotation, after that its situational player minutes. I can see possibly a player beating out Love or Richardson. Especially Love because of his age and Jovic being groom to play Love's role. The one position the Heat can not afford to lose is Bam because there is absolutely no talent behind him. And will Spo really trust a raw player? With increase roles to Jovic and Jaquez, a player who can make an impact out side of field goal attempts will get mins. A rim runner, shot blocker, rebounder, someone who chases the best teams player. A player who can be an effective relief for Bam may secure mins. It why Iv been looking at Shannon Jr and Klintman, because they have expereience and the play type that could beat out Love and Richardson.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1927 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:21 pm

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Always liked him, but last few days he's moving up my board.

If Holland is gone - Carlton Carrington might actually be my #1 pick for us.

I won't go into too much detail ATM but I basically think he's a Herro type shooter with a few significant advantages :

1) He's a natural passer, a true PG. Which makes him big for his position unlike Herro whos a smallish SG.

2) he's got a great wingspan, unlike Herro, and I believe he'd be a better defender.

3) He's got a better handle, and he's young enough for me to believe we can push him to become a much better driver and play more aggressive getting to the paint - that's his biggest weakness.

So a Herro type scorer whos a PG instead of a SG, passes better, defends better, has better tools, handles better, and MIGHT play more aggressively driving to the rim.

I think he might be our best option. It's him, Holland and Ware in my book.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1928 » by Feel_the_Heat15 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:42 pm

People wanting Holland so much reminds me of the time that the fanbase here wanted Nassir Little despite that the fact that the latter also couldn't shoot. 23.9% from 3 and 68.2% from the free throw line.

I was also against drafting Little that time.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1929 » by DayofMourning » Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:57 pm

Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:People wanting Holland so much reminds me of the time that the fanbase here wanted Nassir Little despite that the fact that the latter also couldn't shoot. 23.9% from 3 and 68.2% from the free throw line.

I was also against drafting Little that time.


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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1930 » by twix2500 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:13 pm

Can we collude and cause a fake rumor on social media that the Knicks are going to draft Bronny. I want to see the madness.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1931 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:17 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1932 » by dolphinatik » Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:51 pm

Bub is going lottery, his interviews are insane. Coach father, kid loves the game. One of the most coachable. Reminds me of Maxey/Harden. Has that killer mentality. He is not in our range on draft night. IMO he will go top 10.
1. Herro 2. Bol Bol 3. Seko 4. Bruno
unless we trade up for Barrett or trade down for PJ Washington
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1933 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:04 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1934 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:15 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1935 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:16 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1936 » by lastb1ckman » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:21 pm

twix2500 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Currently constructed you really believe a rook is gonna be a rotation player?

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With the expected loss of Highsmith and Martin we made need them too be. JJJ was able to come in day one and get into the rotation. You also want to draft with the hopes too that there is a vision that they hopefully in the next year or two can be. Why draft an non shooting Center when you know Bam is going to be a fixture at the Center spot here so here negating that vision they could one day start and make an impact getting good quality minutes even off the bench. I could make a case for any other spot to draft even a SF/SG but drafting a non compliant center who can't share the floor with Bam is an absolute misguided use of a high end pick resourse like Rex said. If we draft a big let's atleast draft one with the potential to be a bigman version of a 6th man able to easily play the 4/5 with both Bam and Jovic. Even push Jovic to continue to get better and compete for that 4 spot.


There was a forward position open when the season started. Once Jovic moved into the starting position and everyone was healthy, Highsmith was out of the rotation. And Jovic only got mins at all because of injury. If the season started today excluding Martin and keeping Highsmith, Highsmith would just be a situation player and would only get into the rotation if a player gets hurt. One has to expect Jovic and Jaquez minutes are going to dramatically increase. And Spo has been prepping Jovic to play center to replace the aging Love.

PG: Rozier - Herro
SG: Robinson - Richardson
SF: Butler - Jaquez Jr
PF: Jovic
Ce: Adebayo - Love

That's fills spo 9 man rotation, after that its situational player minutes. I can see possibly a player beating out Love or Richardson. Especially Love because of his age and Jovic being groom to play Love's role. The one position the Heat can not afford to lose is Bam because there is absolutely no talent behind him. And will Spo really trust a raw player? With increase roles to Jovic and Jaquez, a player who can make an impact out side of field goal attempts will get mins. A rim runner, shot blocker, rebounder, someone who chases the best teams player. A player who can be an effective relief for Bam may secure mins. It why Iv been looking at Shannon Jr and Klintman, because they have expereience and the play type that could beat out Love and Richardson.


This is a big reason I'm fine with using the 15th on a strict back up 5. We have literally nobody I feel secure with filling in for Bam when he's not playing. Being able to play with Jovic and/or Bam at any time is a luxury. We need to address the non Bam minutes at very minimum. And it may have to come with a first rounder. The journeymen and undrafted prospects haven't worked.
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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1937 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:21 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1938 » by Beenie » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:40 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1939 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:57 pm

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Re: **NBA Draft Discussion 2024** 

Post#1940 » by DayofMourning » Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:30 pm

Everyone projected to go 1st round getting a green room invite.

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