2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 9

[batterybro42]

Lol beat me to it. The problem for Tyler on offense has been the ball denial. He can't get free. But on ball, he has reliably gotten past defenders all season, even if his handle needs additional work. Its amplified in this series because the Cavs have ratcheted it up and decided to just not guard anyone else, so even if he gets by he has nowhere to go or is forced into a turnover.

He is often making the correct read to swing the ball to where there is soft spots in the defense. The problem is no one else capitalizing on offense. Bam and Wiggins should be EATING, but they're not.

It is hard for me to fault Herro he has just about single handedly carried this team all season long. I do not think you can pay him the max this summer though unless a true A1 star is here alongside him. Then you have to start having the conversation about trading him, and I think some of that writing in on the wall with his quotes of late.

Yeah that quote was wild. Does anyone have the full video or at least article? I still don't even know wtf the context around the question was that he was asked for that to be the response.

I thought the same thing, I did not think it was real when I first saw it. It was in fact a real quote. To me it is him setting the groundwork for what is to come, which is him being traded. Tyler was likely told what it was going to take for him to get that max extension. This was his moment to show that he could carry, he has actually had this moment that last two playoffs. Both times we have not only been beaten but flat run out of our own building with big Game 3 on our home floor. I really do appreciate what Herro has done this year, he has made this season somewhat watchable for me, and has taken a big leap in his game.

The reality is unless you have true franchise player to build around, you really don't have anything. Can't be paying guys like they are that dude either until you are able to secure one of them first. Unless Herro is willing to sign around 35 mil for the extension it is not going to happen, and I do not expect him to do that either he can get paid more elsewhere.

I think the team moves him because what Herro does is far more replaceable that the defensive flexibility Bam provides you, but what both players are is an accessory to a true star, with neither of them being that star themselves.

Disappointed that Bam in any game so far this series did not even attempt to be uber aggressive on offense. Like who is he waiting on to do that? The team clearly plays better when he has that mindset. I don't know why at 27 years old for him we are still talking about this. To me anybody on the roster is expendable. I wouldn't be super sad with any of them being moved, they haven't earned that love in my opinion.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Ware has probably been our worst player this series, it’s between him and Wiggins. I’ve been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt though because hes a rookie, he’s going up against arguably the best defensive front court in the league, and he’s just completely outmatched. Again; no playmaking on this roster from the perimeter which is a huge detriment to him but he’s not even providing any type of defense. That’s been my only disappointment, he’s been torched on that end and just looks lost, he single handedly killed our 1st quarter momentum last game

Its not a surprise, he is going against team with two all-star veteran bigs.

Correct.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It is hard for me to fault Herro he has just about single handedly carried this team all season long. I do not think you can pay him the max this summer though unless a true A1 star is here alongside him. Then you have to start having the conversation about trading him, and I think some of that writing in on the wall with his quotes of late.

Yeah that quote was wild. Does anyone have the full video or at least article? I still don't even know wtf the context around the question was that he was asked for that to be the response.

I thought the same thing, I did not think it was real when I first saw it. It was in fact a real quote. To me it is him setting the groundwork for what is to come, which is him being traded. Tyler was likely told what it was going to take for him to get that max extension. This was his moment to show that he could carry, he has actually had this moment that last two playoffs. Both times we have not only been beaten but flat run out of our own building with big Game 3 on our home floor. I really do appreciate what Herro has done this year, he has made this season somewhat watchable for me, and has taken a big leap in his game.

The reality is unless you have true franchise player to build around, you really don't have anything. Can't be paying guys like they are that dude either until you are able to secure one of them first. Unless Herro is willing to sign around 35 mil for the extension it is not going to happen, and I do not expect him to do that either he can get paid more elsewhere.

I think the team moves him because what Herro does is far more replaceable that the defensive flexibility Bam provides you, but what both players are is an accessory to a true star, with neither of them being that star themselves.

Disappointed that Bam in any game so far this series did not even attempt to be uber aggressive on offense. Like who is he waiting on to do that? The team clearly plays better when he has that mindset. I don't know why at 27 years old for him we are still talking about this. To me anybody on the roster is expendable. I wouldn't be super sad with any of them being moved, they haven't earned that love in my opinion.

He has 22 and 20 shot attempts in 2 of the 3 games though lol

[greg4012]

This is it. No one should be surprised--or act like its some revelation--to see the 21st ranked offense that was the 10th seed in the Eastern Conference struggle against the #1 seed (8th ranked defense). What we're seeing is 100% consistent with what we've seen all season.

It doesn't mean that there aren't avenues for improvement or development, but it just means that such is not coming in the playoffs off the back of a regular season full of drama and instability.

Just looking at their on/off numbers, as I was saying earlier the offense isn't even the big problem in this series.
With Davion/Herro/Bam on they have a 122 offensive rating, even though they got shut down in game 3, it's the fact that they are just getting demolished on defense

The Cavs are getting anything they want (and this Herro thing is getting exaggerate too, because they are just as bad when he is off).
The Cavs have a 134.1 offensive rating in this series, which is the real problem. Some of it surely is talent gap but giving up this kind of numbers is deeper than just that.

On/off definitely doesn't tell the whole story, so def best to do more than "just looking at their on/off numbers", but it can definitely inform the assessment.

Miami has had stretches of great defense and stretches where it completely falls apart. Cleveland has been playing locked-in basketball and absolutely exploiting and maximizing the stretches where its falling apart for Miami and is still executing and finding solid looks when Miami's defense is on point. Wiggins has been the biggest disappointment relative to expectation on defense IMO. Ware has been pretty disastrous but that is to be expected. We all knew Herro would be targeted and would be the point used for Cleveland ot create advantage on a possession by possession basis.

I'm still shocked that Spo has rotation minutes with both Bam and Herro out of the game.

Read on Twitter

Tough shotmaking is not a reliable foundation for developing a good offense.

[batterybro42]

Ware has probably been our worst player this series, it’s between him and Wiggins. I’ve been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt though because hes a rookie, he’s going up against arguably the best defensive front court in the league, and he’s just completely outmatched. Again; no playmaking on this roster from the perimeter which is a huge detriment to him but he’s not even providing any type of defense. That’s been my only disappointment, he’s been torched on that end and just looks lost, he single handedly killed our 1st quarter momentum last game

Horrific matchup for him. Allen can just bully him and Mobley is just too athletic and versatile. Ware still has a long way to go. A lot of promise there, but I don't think he plays true to his potential for at least another 2-3 seasons and another 30+ pounds of size

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Interesting enough when we go big with Bam/Ware on the court together we have a 105 DRTG and a +7 net rating. That seems like a pretty big deal….

Our starting lineup has a +15.7 net rating with a 92 DRTG. wtf lol, so it’s just over the second we make a substitution

[Shewasfly]

It is hard for me to fault Herro he has just about single handedly carried this team all season long. I do not think you can pay him the max this summer though unless a true A1 star is here alongside him. Then you have to start having the conversation about trading him, and I think some of that writing in on the wall with his quotes of late.

Yeah that quote was wild. Does anyone have the full video or at least article? I still don't even know wtf the context around the question was that he was asked for that to be the response.

I thought the same thing, I did not think it was real when I first saw it. It was in fact a real quote. To me it is him setting the groundwork for what is to come, which is him being traded. Tyler was likely told what it was going to take for him to get that max extension. This was his moment to show that he could carry, he has actually had this moment that last two playoffs. Both times we have not only been beaten but flat run out of our own building with big Game 3 on our home floor. I really do appreciate what Herro has done this year, he has made this season somewhat watchable for me, and has taken a big leap in his game.

The reality is unless you have true franchise player to build around, you really don't have anything. Can't be paying guys like they are that dude either until you are able to secure one of them first. Unless Herro is willing to sign around 35 mil for the extension it is not going to happen, and I do not expect him to do that either he can get paid more elsewhere.

I think the team moves him because what Herro does is far more replaceable that the defensive flexibility Bam provides you, but what both players are is an accessory to a true star, with neither of them being that star themselves.

Disappointed that Bam in any game so far this series did not even attempt to be uber aggressive on offense. Like who is he waiting on to do that? The team clearly plays better when he has that mindset. I don't know why at 27 years old for him we are still talking about this. To me anybody on the roster is expendable. I wouldn't be super sad with any of them being moved, they haven't earned that love in my opinion.

This is where I disagree. This idea that Bam is irreplaceable is going to doom us to mediocrity. I think if we are rebuilding and keep Bam it will be a huge mistake. I think the FO thinks he's replaceable too though, so I'm just bracing myself for what's to come with this team.

As for Tyler's quote, does anyone have the entire interview or nah?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

This is it. No one should be surprised--or act like its some revelation--to see the 21st ranked offense that was the 10th seed in the Eastern Conference struggle against the #1 seed (8th ranked defense). What we're seeing is 100% consistent with what we've seen all season.

It doesn't mean that there aren't avenues for improvement or development, but it just means that such is not coming in the playoffs off the back of a regular season full of drama and instability.

Just looking at their on/off numbers, as I was saying earlier the offense isn't even the big problem in this series.
With Davion/Herro/Bam on they have a 122 offensive rating, even though they got shut down in game 3, it's the fact that they are just getting demolished on defense

The Cavs are getting anything they want (and this Herro thing is getting exaggerate too, because they are just as bad when he is off).
The Cavs have a 134.1 offensive rating in this series, which is the real problem. Some of it surely is talent gap but giving up this kind of numbers is deeper than just that.

On/off definitely doesn't tell the whole story, so I'd recommend doing more than "just looking at their on/off numbers", but it can definitely inform the assessment.

Miami has had stretches of great defense and stretches where it completely falls apart. Cleveland has been playing locked-in basketball and absolutely exploiting and maximizing the stretches where its falling apart for Miami and is still executing and finding solid looks when Miami's defense is on point. Wiggins has been the biggest disappointment relative to expectation on defense IMO. Ware has been pretty disastrous but that is to be expected. We all knew Herro would be targeted and would be the point used for Cleveland ot create advantage on a possession by possession basis.

I'm still shocked that Spo has rotation minutes with both Bam and Herro out of the game.

Read on Twitter

Tough shotmaking is not a reliable foundation for developing a good offense.

I’ve been very curious about their shot quality compared to ours, basically validates the points I’ve been harping on about why we need a legit playmaker if not as much, nearly as much as a true 1st option. Everything looks much different once we get those 2 things ironed out

[batterybro42]

Yeah that quote was wild. Does anyone have the full video or at least article? I still don't even know wtf the context around the question was that he was asked for that to be the response.

I thought the same thing, I did not think it was real when I first saw it. It was in fact a real quote. To me it is him setting the groundwork for what is to come, which is him being traded. Tyler was likely told what it was going to take for him to get that max extension. This was his moment to show that he could carry, he has actually had this moment that last two playoffs. Both times we have not only been beaten but flat run out of our own building with big Game 3 on our home floor. I really do appreciate what Herro has done this year, he has made this season somewhat watchable for me, and has taken a big leap in his game.

The reality is unless you have true franchise player to build around, you really don't have anything. Can't be paying guys like they are that dude either until you are able to secure one of them first. Unless Herro is willing to sign around 35 mil for the extension it is not going to happen, and I do not expect him to do that either he can get paid more elsewhere.

I think the team moves him because what Herro does is far more replaceable that the defensive flexibility Bam provides you, but what both players are is an accessory to a true star, with neither of them being that star themselves.

Disappointed that Bam in any game so far this series did not even attempt to be uber aggressive on offense. Like who is he waiting on to do that? The team clearly plays better when he has that mindset. I don't know why at 27 years old for him we are still talking about this. To me anybody on the roster is expendable. I wouldn't be super sad with any of them being moved, they haven't earned that love in my opinion.

He has 22 and 20 shot attempts in 2 of the 3 games though lol

He loved to try to get shots up down 30 in game 3

That was his game 7 I guess

I would not be mad whatsoever if Bam took 50 shots in game 4, demand the ball and go attack.

[greg4012]

Interesting enough when we go big with Bam/Ware on the court together we have a 105 DRTG and a +7 net rating. That seems like a pretty big deal….

Our starting lineup has a +15.7 net rating with a 92 DRTG. wtf lol, so it’s just over the second we make a substitution

Ty Jerome is the soul sucker.

I think Spo has gone stretches of each game with both Bam and Herro subbed out at the same time, which is lunacy IMO

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bams defense has led us to the top 10 in defenses every year, a Herro led offense just landed us in the bottom 10 with the worst offense we’ve had in a long time. There is not debate on who is or isn’t more replaceable.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I thought the same thing, I did not think it was real when I first saw it. It was in fact a real quote. To me it is him setting the groundwork for what is to come, which is him being traded. Tyler was likely told what it was going to take for him to get that max extension. This was his moment to show that he could carry, he has actually had this moment that last two playoffs. Both times we have not only been beaten but flat run out of our own building with big Game 3 on our home floor. I really do appreciate what Herro has done this year, he has made this season somewhat watchable for me, and has taken a big leap in his game.

The reality is unless you have true franchise player to build around, you really don't have anything. Can't be paying guys like they are that dude either until you are able to secure one of them first. Unless Herro is willing to sign around 35 mil for the extension it is not going to happen, and I do not expect him to do that either he can get paid more elsewhere.

I think the team moves him because what Herro does is far more replaceable that the defensive flexibility Bam provides you, but what both players are is an accessory to a true star, with neither of them being that star themselves.

Disappointed that Bam in any game so far this series did not even attempt to be uber aggressive on offense. Like who is he waiting on to do that? The team clearly plays better when he has that mindset. I don't know why at 27 years old for him we are still talking about this. To me anybody on the roster is expendable. I wouldn't be super sad with any of them being moved, they haven't earned that love in my opinion.

He has 22 and 20 shot attempts in 2 of the 3 games though lol

He loved to try to get shots up down 30 in game 3

That was his game 7 I guess

I would not be mad whatsoever if Bam took 50 shots in game 4, demand the ball and go attack.

Well yea you can say that about anyone considering we were getting drilled from the point the bench came in and on that entire game lol

[VaDe255]

Just looking at their on/off numbers, as I was saying earlier the offense isn't even the big problem in this series.
With Davion/Herro/Bam on they have a 122 offensive rating, even though they got shut down in game 3, it's the fact that they are just getting demolished on defense

The Cavs are getting anything they want (and this Herro thing is getting exaggerate too, because they are just as bad when he is off).
The Cavs have a 134.1 offensive rating in this series, which is the real problem. Some of it surely is talent gap but giving up this kind of numbers is deeper than just that.

186 DefRtg when Bam is off and Tyler and Davion are on?? Who the hell else is on the court during these times??? My God.

One thing that isn't being talked about a lot is that Ware has been insanely bad defensively as well. I really hope/think its because he's a rookie. But he gets lost constantly and cannot adequately recover on switches.

Ware has been completely lost this playoffs. One of the perceived positives for Miami making the playoffs was to get the young guys some experience/exposure. Hopefully this is an eye opener that he can learn from bc it damn sure hasn't been pretty lol

Has he, though? The only time they have been able to defend the Cavs is when Bam and Ware were on the court together (the four-man lineup of Bam, Herro, Davion, and Ware has a +15 net rating in 26 minutes too).
I think Ware's defensive presence is underrated, even though he sometimes gives up easy baskets. Bam also covers for a lot of his deficiencies; it's when Ware is out there alone that he struggles.

I think Spo should play Bam, Ware, Herro, and Davion more — this lineup has been positive the whole season.

[greg4012]

186 DefRtg when Bam is off and Tyler and Davion are on?? Who the hell else is on the court during these times??? My God.

One thing that isn't being talked about a lot is that Ware has been insanely bad defensively as well. I really hope/think its because he's a rookie. But he gets lost constantly and cannot adequately recover on switches.

Ware has been completely lost this playoffs. One of the perceived positives for Miami making the playoffs was to get the young guys some experience/exposure. Hopefully this is an eye opener that he can learn from bc it damn sure hasn't been pretty lol

Has he though? The only time they have been able to defend the Cavs is when Bam/Ware were on the court together (the 4 man lineup of Bam/Herro/Davion/Ware has a +15 net in 26 minutes too).
I think Ware's defensive presence is underrated, even though he sometimes gives up easy baskets. Bam also does cover for a lot of his deficiencies, it's when Ware is out there alone he stuggles.

I think Spo should play Bam/Ware/Herro/Davion more, this lineup has been positive the whole season.

Yes he has

Distilling small stretches of games down to just on-off numbers on a single-player basis is so noisy it's often useless info. Definitely shouldn't be the driving factor in aiming to understand the dynamics at play IMO

[batterybro42]

Yeah that quote was wild. Does anyone have the full video or at least article? I still don't even know wtf the context around the question was that he was asked for that to be the response.

I thought the same thing, I did not think it was real when I first saw it. It was in fact a real quote. To me it is him setting the groundwork for what is to come, which is him being traded. Tyler was likely told what it was going to take for him to get that max extension. This was his moment to show that he could carry, he has actually had this moment that last two playoffs. Both times we have not only been beaten but flat run out of our own building with big Game 3 on our home floor. I really do appreciate what Herro has done this year, he has made this season somewhat watchable for me, and has taken a big leap in his game.

The reality is unless you have true franchise player to build around, you really don't have anything. Can't be paying guys like they are that dude either until you are able to secure one of them first. Unless Herro is willing to sign around 35 mil for the extension it is not going to happen, and I do not expect him to do that either he can get paid more elsewhere.

I think the team moves him because what Herro does is far more replaceable that the defensive flexibility Bam provides you, but what both players are is an accessory to a true star, with neither of them being that star themselves.

Disappointed that Bam in any game so far this series did not even attempt to be uber aggressive on offense. Like who is he waiting on to do that? The team clearly plays better when he has that mindset. I don't know why at 27 years old for him we are still talking about this. To me anybody on the roster is expendable. I wouldn't be super sad with any of them being moved, they haven't earned that love in my opinion.

This is where I disagree. This idea that Bam is irreplaceable is going to doom us to mediocrity. I think if we are rebuilding and keep Bam it will be a huge mistake. I think the FO thinks he's replaceable too though, so I'm just bracing myself for what's to come with this team.

As for Tyler's quote, does anyone have the entire interview or nah?

I think that is a fair point, mine being that Herro is far more replaceable than Bam is. Foundationally there is nothing wrong with Bam as a max player, the problem is if he is THE max player, which he has proven along with Herro that he cannot handle that.

Bam is not overpaid in my opinion

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Interesting enough when we go big with Bam/Ware on the court together we have a 105 DRTG and a +7 net rating. That seems like a pretty big deal….

Our starting lineup has a +15.7 net rating with a 92 DRTG. wtf lol, so it’s just over the second we make a substitution

Ty Jerome is the soul sucker.

I think Spo has gone stretches of each game with both Bam and Herro subbed out at the same time, which is lunacy IMO

Jerome definitely got his hunters license in time for this series

[VaDe255]

Ware has been completely lost this playoffs. One of the perceived positives for Miami making the playoffs was to get the young guys some experience/exposure. Hopefully this is an eye opener that he can learn from bc it damn sure hasn't been pretty lol

Has he though? The only time they have been able to defend the Cavs is when Bam/Ware were on the court together (the 4 man lineup of Bam/Herro/Davion/Ware has a +15 net in 26 minutes too).
I think Ware's defensive presence is underrated, even though he sometimes gives up easy baskets. Bam also does cover for a lot of his deficiencies, it's when Ware is out there alone he stuggles.

I think Spo should play Bam/Ware/Herro/Davion more, this lineup has been positive the whole season.

Yes he has

Well, you can say that all you want, there is nothing that objectively really supports it.
The net rating is better when he is on, rather than off and the only positive lineups for the Heat do include Ware being on the court.

I'm not a big "eye-test" guy, because this always ends up being subjective in some way.

[batterybro42]

He has 22 and 20 shot attempts in 2 of the 3 games though lol

He loved to try to get shots up down 30 in game 3

That was his game 7 I guess

I would not be mad whatsoever if Bam took 50 shots in game 4, demand the ball and go attack.

Well yea you can say that about anyone considering we were getting drilled from the point the bench came in and on that entire game lol

We are going to get beat and probably swept I would be perfectly ok with Bam saying tonight that he is going to go out on his shield. He does not need to be scared or look over his shoulder if misses 2-3 from the top of the key. Just be aggressive and try to score. I get very annoyed that the leader of the franchise seems unwilling to do that, and I think it makes this team soft. We cannot go out like a bunch of sad guys who rage quit the game midway through the 2nd QTR

[greg4012]

Has he though? The only time they have been able to defend the Cavs is when Bam/Ware were on the court together (the 4 man lineup of Bam/Herro/Davion/Ware has a +15 net in 26 minutes too).
I think Ware's defensive presence is underrated, even though he sometimes gives up easy baskets. Bam also does cover for a lot of his deficiencies, it's when Ware is out there alone he stuggles.

I think Spo should play Bam/Ware/Herro/Davion more, this lineup has been positive the whole season.

Yes he has

Well, you can say that all you want, there is nothing that objectively really supports it.
The net rating is better when he is on, rather than off and the only positive lineups for the Heat do include Ware being on the court.

I'm not a big "eye-test" guy, because this always ends up being subjective in some way.

lol ok

[Shewasfly]

There are several plays in the vid where he beat people off the dribble and ran into a wall at the rim. He didn't score 50 by accident the 1st 2 games. It's the ball denial that is causing us the problems since no one else can score reliably

This is not Herro beating his man. This is Strus angling Herro into Allen on the block not respecting the corner shooter and not expecting Herro to make the right decision.

Big man funnel system is one of the more common defenses in the NBA (especially for a team where the their strength is a defensive frontcourt). Surprised people see it as anything else.

It's because the conversation was not about their defense, we're talking about our offense.

If you try the "big man funnel system" against the Cavs, they are drilling us from 3 or punishing us from inside, with a lot of that being done by their front court. We cannot say the same. And it's bizarre analysis to put the focus on the person who we can all see is getting a ton of defensive attention when those getting less are doing nothing with the space they are getting by not being the primary focus.